Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[BU508A]

Gone are the days when the only thing that you needed to do something with your oscilloscope were some probes.
I'm looking for a keyboard for the incoming TDS5104 now. It should be as compact as possible and best would be one with an integrated trackball. I found a Siemens Nixdorf one with a touchpad, which has the desired PS2 interfaces (2, as one for the keyboard and one for the pointing function). But knowing that S-N gear was in many cases not really compatible with anything else, I am a bit wary. Looking on. If someone does know a unit fulfilling the requirements outlined above, please let me know..

You probably want a Cherry ML4400 G84-4400PPADE/01 keyboard. This kind of keyboards were widely used in 19 inch server racks.
Example: https://www.ebay.de/itm/273797654692

[tggzzz]

Gone are the days when the only thing that you needed to do something with your oscilloscope were some probes.
I'm looking for a keyboard for the incoming TDS5104 now. It should be as compact as possible and best would be one with an integrated trackball. I found a Siemens Nixdorf one with a touchpad, which has the desired PS2 interfaces (2, as one for the keyboard and one for the pointing function). But knowing that S-N gear was in many cases not really compatible with anything else, I am a bit wary. Looking on. If someone does know a unit fulfilling the requirements outlined above, please let me know..

I have one of these http://www.riitek.com/product/k12x.html

Bluetooth, touchpad, usable keyboard with some tactile feedback.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Gone are the days when the only thing that you needed to do something with your oscilloscope were some probes.
I'm looking for a keyboard for the incoming TDS5104 now. It should be as compact as possible and best would be one with an integrated trackball. I found a Siemens Nixdorf one with a touchpad, which has the desired PS2 interfaces (2, as one for the keyboard and one for the pointing function). But knowing that S-N gear was in many cases not really compatible with anything else, I am a bit wary. Looking on. If someone does know a unit fulfilling the requirements outlined above, please let me know..

I have one of these http://www.riitek.com/product/k12x.html

Bluetooth, touchpad, usable keyboard with some tactile feedback.

Nice, except for the Bluetooth, which has (imo) no place at the lab bench.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Gone are the days when the only thing that you needed to do something with your oscilloscope were some probes.
I'm looking for a keyboard for the incoming TDS5104 now. It should be as compact as possible and best would be one with an integrated trackball. I found a Siemens Nixdorf one with a touchpad, which has the desired PS2 interfaces (2, as one for the keyboard and one for the pointing function). But knowing that S-N gear was in many cases not really compatible with anything else, I am a bit wary. Looking on. If someone does know a unit fulfilling the requirements outlined above, please let me know..

You probably want a Cherry ML4400 G84-4400PPADE/01 keyboard. This kind of keyboards were widely used in 19 inch server racks.
Example: https://www.ebay.de/itm/273797654692

This one looks just right.

[Cerebus]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

This has always been my understanding as well, I have workshop manuals that refer to calibration, then they proceed to instruct you in the test parameters are and what to adjust if the equipment does not match the reading that the manual states. The manuals also give a performance check section, again where they tell you what parameters to set up, and they also tell you what indicated values you expect to, this section of the manuals is then followed by the calibration section.

With that in mind, when you send something away to be calibrated, I would expect them to conduct a performance check and note down the ranges that fell into the pass mark parameters the manual gives and then move onto making adjustments where possible to the ranges that did not make the pass mark, and adjust them until they did achieve the pass mark status. Seems logical to me

All well and good until you consider that calibration labs also do weights, rulers, micrometers and many other things that cannot be adjusted. A proper calibration lab will always differentiate between calibration and adjustment; Mick, who can "Calibrate your tester for you gov." probably won't.

[Vince]

Tek RM17 repair update

Only problem left is the trace moving up and down a  bit. With now zero filtering on the voltage divider, plus crappy caps decoupling that pre-amp supply... no wonder. So I will replace these x3 10uF caps and I guess it should get rid of that problem ! 

OK so I did just that. Cobbled together a replacement C146 A/B/C 3 section cap, see how beautiful it is ? You are all jealous of my artistic talent, I know, I know...   

Just looked at my stock of SMPS / 400V caps, found a few 10uF , spot on the value of the old caps, fantastic.

Here is a little video I made of what the calibrator signal looked like on the 10/20/50mV ranges, i.e when using the pre-amp.

trace randomly moves a bit up and down, plus regularly it gets wild and gets all scratchy/super noisy, as if there was a bad switch contact somewhere.
Also, big spikes on the trailing edges ! 
And of course the amplitude problem... but that has now been solved as we have seen.

Just in case, I put a plastic box no top of the caps.. safety first ! Then I power the scope up and... no explosion, good start. 10 seconds later... no smoke.... even better. 30 seconds later... a trace on the scope.... ohhhhhh....  100% fixed ! No spikes anymore no the leading edges, zero vertical movement, zero scratchiness... just a nice rock solid, super stable, clean sharp square wave ! I like that a lot ! 
Just goes to show that even these 60+ year old antiques can still do great things... I can't get enough of the joy it brings me to see such an old scope display such small signal so cleanly, so sharply, so rock solid... it's not a toy, it's a proper piece of TE 

So  I think that's about wraps it up for this scope ! All fixed. Just need to order decent new caps and tidy up this hack, the button it up !

I can now resume work on the Rochar Nixie DMM 

[tautech]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

This has always been my understanding as well, I have workshop manuals that refer to calibration, then they proceed to instruct you in the test parameters are and what to adjust if the equipment does not match the reading that the manual states. The manuals also give a performance check section, again where they tell you what parameters to set up, and they also tell you what indicated values you expect to, this section of the manuals is then followed by the calibration section.

With that in mind, when you send something away to be calibrated, I would expect them to conduct a performance check and note down the ranges that fell into the pass mark parameters the manual gives and then move onto making adjustments where possible to the ranges that did not make the pass mark, and adjust them until they did achieve the pass mark status. Seems logical to me

All well and good until you consider that calibration labs also do weights, rulers, micrometers and many other things that cannot be adjusted. A proper calibration lab will always differentiate between calibration and adjustment; Mick, who can "Calibrate your tester for you gov." probably won't.

Oh yeah and to walk into such a place and not trip over your tongue/yaw is a real achievement.

All the best gear everywhere including a few Siglent's  however just having good gear doesn't mean they have competent staff to use it. 

Study the attached PDF Performance verification report (part of) and it demonstrates how some staff get into positions where they should know how properly to use 50 Ohm inputs but don't. 

[med6753]

Results after a 2 hour continuous run.....



I'm calling it fixed. The HV Oscillator is loafing along at a stable 72V. Mounty.....please let Herr Felgendreher know that the repair was indeed successful and tell him how much I appreciate his efforts. He does some excellent work. 

So onward and upward with the balance of the restoration/recap/calibration.

[Vince]

Study the attached PDF Performance verification report (part of) and it demonstrates how some staff get into positions where they should know how properly to use 50 Ohm inputs but don't. 

Oh... wow.... I hope at least that the guy got his money back and some apologies ! 

[tautech]

Study the attached PDF Performance verification report (part of) and it demonstrates how some staff get into positions where they should know how properly to use 50 Ohm inputs but don't. 

Oh... wow.... I hope at least that the guy got his money back and some apologies ! 

Nope, one of the Cal lab staff busted it and it was discovered in routine performance verification (calibration) checks.
The Cal tech that runs their big Fluke universal calibrator said they needed 2KW rated 50 Ohm inputs for some of the muppets working there. 

[BU508A]

Results after a 2 hour continuous run.....



I'm calling it fixed. The HV Oscillator is loafing along at a stable 72V. Mounty.....please let Herr Felgendreher know that the repair was indeed successful and tell him how much I appreciate his efforts. He does some excellent work. 

So onward and upward with the balance of the restoration/recap/calibration.

That is good news! 
I'll write him tomorrow an email, together with the links to your reports, so he can check it out first hand. 
I am really relieved to see that the repair was a complete success (and that we do have now a happy Papa Smurf). 

[GreyWoolfe]

Don't ya just hate the smell of burning flesh 

Yes, especially my own.

[GreyWoolfe]

Pineapple and Bits o' Pig are a taste combination made in heaven... mixed with any form of tomato sauce, not so much.   

mnem
and fuck anchovies. with a shovel.   

Pineapple offends both my Italian and Sicilian heritages.  Anchovies, however, are a completely different story, I'm with med on this.  Even on Cauliflower crust as we don't eat simple carbs any more, an entire jar of anchovies with capers goes just right and doesn't even offend Mrs GreyWoolfe.  I am presently experimenting on making my own crust as the cheese added to store bought is bad for my intestines.  Tonight was taco pizza.  fajita seasoned ground chicken, sauteed onions and green peppers, jalapenos, pizza sauce and vegan cheddar cheese because of issues with regular cheese.  Taco pizza should probably offend those same heritages but somehow it doesn't.

[mansaxel]

Do these connectors fit for an old HP3400A?

If the [hp] is made in what was then West Germany, yes, they probably fit. I've got a Model 400h VTVM made in the early Bundesrepublik that takes that connector.

It's an US one.

Then you need a PH-163 as Cubdriver wrote; the Heizgerätestecker won't do. Good luck. I've got two, one with my 5221 and one with my 200CDR. I also have about 100 ordinary C13 cables. And a batch of Heizgerätestecker, which still can be bought as NOS. (A lot of toasters, waffle irons and other appliances here take the connector, so there is a large non-TE "vintage chic" market. )

[Neomys Sapiens]

An extremely versatile portable multimeter not found often in good shape:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/304459208262

You might recall that mine came out of the DMMcheck-testing right on spot.

[TERRA Operative]

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k1047442985

[med6753]

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k1047442985

What is that unit on top of it? 

[TERRA Operative]

It's a GPIB printer, looks like basically an heavy-duty receipt printer, I guess it mostly just prints out screenshots.

I have the enhanced printer software already, so should be fun to play with (I'll have to replace/3D print the cosmetic plastic front and rear trim pieces too).

[Neomys Sapiens]

It's a GPIB printer, looks like basically an heavy-duty receipt printer, I guess it mostly just prints out screenshots.

I have the enhanced printer software already, so should be fun to play with (I'll have to replace/3D print the cosmetic plastic front and rear trim pieces too).

Announcement instead of content: From Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN is no longer available in the EEA and the United Kingdom

[Saskia]

Gone are the days when the only thing that you needed to do something with your oscilloscope were some probes.
I'm looking for a keyboard for the incoming TDS5104 now. It should be as compact as possible and best would be one with an integrated trackball. I found a Siemens Nixdorf one with a touchpad, which has the desired PS2 interfaces (2, as one for the keyboard and one for the pointing function). But knowing that S-N gear was in many cases not really compatible with anything else, I am a bit wary. Looking on. If someone does know a unit fulfilling the requirements outlined above, please let me know..

I have one of these http://www.riitek.com/product/k12x.html

Bluetooth, touchpad, usable keyboard with some tactile feedback.

Nice, except for the Bluetooth, which has (imo) no place at the lab bench.

There are external thinkpad keyboards available - either with that miniature joystick or with a touchpad.

I have one of those and I find it useful (happy is too strong an expression)

[Saskia]

no. But the data should be recoverable.

This reminds me. Gotta set up some backup.
My large NAS is still not reconnected, this will take some additional time (first need to finalize the lab and bring order to the universe put in flooring, heating, juice.
But I do have another NAS (2 bay,small QNAP or Synology, don't remember) and some spare hard drives.
Time to set it up I guess.

[TERRA Operative]

It's a GPIB printer, looks like basically an heavy-duty receipt printer, I guess it mostly just prints out screenshots.

I have the enhanced printer software already, so should be fun to play with (I'll have to replace/3D print the cosmetic plastic front and rear trim pieces too).

Announcement instead of content: From Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN is no longer available in the EEA and the United Kingdom

Here's a pic from the listing.
Paid equal to US$60 including shipping. It's a bit beat up so might become a parts mule for my nicer units.

[med6753]

The data contained on my computers is really only useful to me and doesn't contain anything I consider "sensitive" so my backup strategy is modest but effective. I utilize Google Drive but I don't let it run in the background. I run it manually and under my supervision when I feel the need then I shut it down. I have an external hard drive off line and once a month I bring it up and use Macrium Reflect to run a full clone of the hard drive. I then shut it down off line. 

[Saskia]

I have several backup drives in various locations plus some data in a vault. However there are computers holding critical data and some that only have a few important documents (such as my tax filings)

The TP450S was the one I did some of my tax filings on and wrote some somewhat important documents so I should make a backup of the data folders.

I need to reorganize my data storage anyway but this is going to take a lot of time ...

[DC1MC]

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k1047442985

We will never know:

From Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN is no longer available in the EEA and the United Kingdom

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