Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Cubdriver]

Do these connectors fit for an old HP3400A?

If you mean for the AC Mains input, the answer is no.  The old HP gear's oval connector is known as a PH-163, and unfortunately they’re rather rare these days.

http://madrona.ca/e/powerConn/index.html] [url]http://madrona.ca/e/powerConn/index.html[/url]

In some cases there’s enough room to install a C-14 connector without too much fuss, so this can be an option.  Otherwise you’ll need to find one of the PH-163 cords.

-Pat

[mansaxel]

Do these connectors fit for an old HP3400A?

If the [hp] is made in what was then West Germany, yes, they probably fit. I've got a Model 400h VTVM made in the early Bundesrepublik that takes that connector.

[mansaxel]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

[Peter_O]

Do these connectors fit for an old HP3400A?

If the [hp] is made in what was then West Germany, yes, they probably fit. I've got a Model 400h VTVM made in the early Bundesrepublik that takes that connector.

It's an US one.

[Vince]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

[Neomys Sapiens]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

Vince, I am in in deep trouble now! Does that mean that this is NOT the calibration technician that she claimed to be?

[Saskia]

... Now I have too many DMMs ...

I don't want to be rude,     ...

...    but that might be an axiomatic wrong assertion within the TEA scope.   

Hi Peter,

your letter arrived, many thanks. The connector fits in principal, thank you very much.

I went from 0 bench DMMs to quite a bundle of very useful ones. I think I'll lay back for a while.

[Saskia]

seems that my Thinkpad T450S died. It steadfastly refuses to turn on. No, it's not the PSU. I was online yesterday evening in discord. This is most annoying.

[Neomys Sapiens]

seems that my Thinkpad T450S died. It steadfastly refuses to turn on. No, it's not the PSU. I was online yesterday evening in discord. This is most annoying.

This is most unfortunate. My condolence for your loss. Did you backup recently?

[Specmaster]

One of my favourites was a Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns (not shrimps!). The lack of other meat allowed the prawn flavour to shine!

How the hell can that pizza with prawns be classified as a vegetarian pizza 

Read the statement... "Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns"

Then in that case it should read as, "vegetarian pizza plus prawns" the terms of extra or added implies that prawns are already a standard part of the pizza and you asked for an extra portion of prawns to be added to the pizza.

No, that would be "extra prawns".
"Added" can mean that, but it can also mean, as in this case "added" to a pizza which previously did not have them.

Back in the day, my first car did not have seatbelts, until I added them, or as another example, I might "add" tomato sauce to a hot meat pie!
If I wanted more sauce after that, it would then be extra sauce!

I think what we have here is a classic case of the English language being difficult, because while I accept your example of adding seatbelts to your car, you could also have seat belts added to just to the front seats and then later on add 2 more in the rear 

[Saskia]

no. But the data should be recoverable.

[m k]

seems that my Thinkpad T450S died. It steadfastly refuses to turn on. No, it's not the PSU. I was online yesterday evening in discord. This is most annoying.

With or without a battery?

[Saskia]

either. Independent of battery removed or battery installed.

Could be the CMOS or the charging circuit.

[tggzzz]

Two bits of TE purchased. A Metrix (yes that spelling) MX67 "stick DMM. Ex MoD (Army) and clearly unused. It still had the frotecive film on the display etc. With case, working OK for £4  one thing I did not realise is that they have a backlight. Handy meter to keep in the car.

I have an MX67, and I find it very useful when poking around a circuit...

Use a lead with a 4mm banana plug, clip the other end on a suitable reference point, and forget it.

Put the 10cm spike in the red 4mm socket, bend the spike as convenient, and touch that to the node of interest. "As if by magic", the display is right in front of your face - not somewhere else out of the field of view. That reduces the chance of the spike slipping (disastrously?) when reading the display.

[m k]

either. Independent of battery removed or battery installed.

Could be the CMOS or the charging circuit.

CMOS error should beep.

If it does nothing maybe a power connector has lost its contact.

[AVGresponding]

either. Independent of battery removed or battery installed.

Could be the CMOS or the charging circuit.

CMOS error should beep.

If it does nothing maybe a power connector has lost its contact.

I'd tend to agree with this. It's certainly worth checking before getting more radical.

[Specmaster]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

This has always been my understanding as well, I have workshop manuals that refer to calibration, then they proceed to instruct you in the test parameters are and what to adjust if the equipment does not match the reading that the manual states. The manuals also give a performance check section, again where they tell you what parameters to set up, and they also tell you what indicated values you expect to, this section of the manuals is then followed by the calibration section.

With that in mind, when you send something away to be calibrated, I would expect them to conduct a performance check and note down the ranges that fell into the pass mark parameters the manual gives and then move onto making adjustments where possible to the ranges that did not make the pass mark, and adjust them until they did achieve the pass mark status. Seems logical to me

[Saskia]

either. Independent of battery removed or battery installed.

Could be the CMOS or the charging circuit.

CMOS error should beep.

If it does nothing maybe a power connector has lost its contact.

tried with a different PSU, no reaction, no LED turning on.

Unplugged internal battery and CMOS and lo and behold, it came back to live.

Some goo-oogling turned out that under certain conditions the CMOS prevents the system from powering on.

No data lost, just had to reset date and time. Quick fix.

[Saskia]

remind me to play back Ride of the Valkyries next time I need to convince a notebook to do my bidding.

[m k]

Asus machines have known features, like no CMOS battery, no boot.

[Saskia]

well yes, but this is a Lenovo ...

[tautech]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

For the modern instrument where no physical adjustments exist....well any TE really.....performance verification is the first step of the calibration process and if the DUT meets manufacturer spec then it is deemed to have passed calibration in that its rated performance has been verified.

Yeah sort of a play on words but in a way that the process cannot be misunderstood.

[BU508A]

...then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.

That would be Calibration and Adjustment, not Calibration only.

 

/HTH, HAND

Edit: My probes are calibrated with the meter they came in a kit. I trust them, but have of course pondered how to create a suitably high DC voltage to make a dent in the reading while also having a non-probe-fitted meter that will measure it.

It's not so clear to me. the Tek manuals for my old scopes, to me, make it sound like Tek uses "adjustments" in order to perform the "calibration". So the calibration is the act of .. well acting on the scope so that it meet its spec again. The "adjustments" are the form that this act, takes.

In French we use the term "Etalonné", that's not ambiguous and means that performance has been checked/measured, but measured only. No action has been taken to correct anything.
When we say "calibrate", in contrast, that means acting has been performed on the TE to bring it back to spec. Said action of course is in the form of adjustments... rarely in the form of a sledge hammer, or throwing the TE out the window from the 5th floor...

I don't know if there is a word in English like that, to clearly say that the performance has been checked but no adjustments have been made. You say that's the very meaning of " calibration", but reading Tek manuals, it's not how they use the term.Well, the way I read it of course... I am not a native English of course...

If fear there might be some difference between the rosy world of a dictionary definition of the term "calibrate", and how it gets used in practice.

It is easy to understand.

Calibration:
- using a known good source (e.g. 10V reference) with known uncertainty which is at least one order of magnitude better than the DUT and measure it. Write down the result of your measurement, and if the DUT is within spec, you're done.

Adjusting:
If (and only if!) the DUT is out of spec, then one might decide to adjust the DUT so that is within spec again. This is adjustment. The disadvantage is, that adjustment will break the calibration history of the DUT. In some cases, this history is more valuable than being in spec, because the history is showing the drift and uncertainty of the DUT.

So, be careful. Calibration in a metrology sense means always ONLY comparing values and document them properly.
Tweaking the DUT into spec is adjusting and this breaks always the calibration history of the DUT.

I think, in your case it doesn't matter if you are going to adjust your TE but if metrology grade measurements are mandatory, adjusting is a no-go in most cases.

HTH

[Neomys Sapiens]

Gone are the days when the only thing that you needed to do something with your oscilloscope were some probes.
I'm looking for a keyboard for the incoming TDS5104 now. It should be as compact as possible and best would be one with an integrated trackball. I found a Siemens Nixdorf one with a touchpad, which has the desired PS2 interfaces (2, as one for the keyboard and one for the pointing function). But knowing that S-N gear was in many cases not really compatible with anything else, I am a bit wary. Looking on. If someone does know a unit fulfilling the requirements outlined above, please let me know..

[m k]

well yes, but this is a Lenovo ...

Just a note for future reader.