Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 18880660 times)

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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118250 on: April 24, 2022, 10:47:56 am »

Read the statement... "Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns"

On a similar vein, I used to order "veg pizza, with extra ham" back in the day, because the greens were so much better on those; they just needed the ham to get really good.

Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118251 on: April 24, 2022, 10:54:19 am »
Makes perfect sense.
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118252 on: April 24, 2022, 11:05:50 am »

Read the statement... "Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns"

On a similar vein, I used to order "veg pizza, with extra ham" back in the day, because the greens were so much better on those; they just needed the ham to get really good.

There were prosecutions in the UK several years ago because kebab shops were selling "Ham" pizzas that actually had cured turkey or soya protein on them. The staff and owners were muslim.......
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118253 on: April 24, 2022, 11:43:15 am »
One of my favourites was a Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns (not shrimps!). The lack of other meat allowed the prawn flavour to shine!
How the hell can that pizza with prawns be classified as a vegetarian pizza  :-//

Read the statement... "Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns"
Then in that case it should read as, "vegetarian pizza plus prawns" the terms of extra or added implies that prawns are already a standard part of the pizza and you asked for an extra portion of prawns to be added to the pizza.
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118254 on: April 24, 2022, 11:55:14 am »
Fuck that. It's pepperoni pizza and lots of cheese and tomato sauce with NO veggies. THAT'S pizza. 
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118255 on: April 24, 2022, 11:58:11 am »
The Belzer Lackabziehpinzette is mine.  ;D

https://www.ebay.de/itm/255496190763



Thanks Neomys for the hint.  :-+

Plan A didn't work out very well. Will show some pictures later.
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118256 on: April 24, 2022, 12:03:35 pm »
Fuck that. It's pepperoni pizza and lots of cheese and tomato sauce with NO veggies. THAT'S pizza.

* BU508A , smuggling some Anchovies under med's cheese.

 ;D
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118257 on: April 24, 2022, 12:08:10 pm »
Fuck that. It's pepperoni pizza and lots of cheese and tomato sauce with NO veggies. THAT'S pizza.

* BU508A , smuggling some Anchovies under med's cheese.

 ;D

Go for it. I like anchovies on pizza.  :-+
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118258 on: April 24, 2022, 12:36:03 pm »
I like anchovy paste added to many things; it brings a delicious umami flavour.

Many SE Asian cuisines have anchovy paste as a base ingredient.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118259 on: April 24, 2022, 12:46:26 pm »
Pineapple and Bits o' Pig are a taste combination made in heaven... mixed with any form of tomato sauce, not so much.   :-\

mnem
and fuck anchovies. with a shovel.   :P

I used to buy Pizzas from "Grumpy's Pizzas--service with a snarl".
One of my favourites was a Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns (not shrimps!). The lack of other meat allowed the prawn flavour to shine!
Better watch out, neomys will jack you up for your 'zzaw!!! ;)

And I get it, BTW... veggie pizza and your choice of meat can be a entirely different experience. :-+

mnem
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118260 on: April 24, 2022, 12:48:42 pm »
That there is part of this thread's success story, that we discuss many topics, and yet learn so much at the same time, and still all come together around the main central plank of the thread. These little interludes help to fill the time with friendly (mostly) banter when core TEA topics are a bit thin (pun intended) on the ground. Another form of discord without the app.  :-DD :-DD :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

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Online vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118261 on: April 24, 2022, 01:30:34 pm »
One of my favourites was a Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns (not shrimps!). The lack of other meat allowed the prawn flavour to shine!
How the hell can that pizza with prawns be classified as a vegetarian pizza  :-//

Read the statement... "Vegetarian Pizza with added prawns"
Then in that case it should read as, "vegetarian pizza plus prawns" the terms of extra or added implies that prawns are already a standard part of the pizza and you asked for an extra portion of prawns to be added to the pizza.

No, that would be "extra prawns".
"Added" can mean that, but it can also mean, as in this case "added" to a pizza which previously did not have them.

Back in the day, my first car did not have seatbelts, until I added them, or as another example, I might "add" tomato sauce to a hot meat pie!
If I wanted more sauce after that, it would then be extra sauce!
 
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118262 on: April 24, 2022, 01:35:04 pm »
about to conclude my 5 hour sports for today...
I need to lose weight ... the surfboard only has limited buoyancy ...
also there was flea market. woe is me ...
got too many old records. such as JS Bach, Dvorak, ...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 01:47:49 pm by Saskia »
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118263 on: April 24, 2022, 01:50:01 pm »
Tek RM17 repair update


...
...

So the voltage divider is bad then. I checked both resistors, they are good. Eh ?!  :o


Only explanation I can come up with is : schematic shows a little 5nF cap, C166, across R168, the bottom leg of the divider. So if that cap was say, leaking a bit, it would indeed lower the voltage of that divider. So let's find this cap... uh..... can someone tell me where it is ? For the life of me I can't find it !  :o
There is a similar cap on the anode of the tube, it's a small brown Z5U disc ceramic cap. There are a few of these in the area but... I just can't find the one connected to that voltage divider ! :-//
Maybe it was not implemented on my particular scope but... I doubt it. It serves a purpose here... I think. I am not sure Tek would have deemed it wise to remove it.

Also, when I measured the voltage on the divider, hence across that cap, assuming it's indeed there somewhere.... I noticed that the voltage is NOT stable. The 300V rail is stable, but not the divider output.
I also noticed some capacitive effect maybe : when I put my probe on the divider/cap, I get say 115V, but it immediately starts dropping, slowly, and jerkily, and wonders about. It can go down to 112V every now and then. But... if take my probe off, wait say 3 seconds, then apply it again... I read 115V very briefly then it drops again... Like the impedance of my DMM was stealing some current from that cap and playing havoc with it. Something like that. Just a gut feeling really  :-//

So... I do need to take this scope apart until I can find this cap, hoping it is there indeed. My only hope : the output of the divider is on a ceramic strip, from which two wires bugger off. One goes to the tube, but the other I can't see where it goes, it merges into a little harness and I can't follow it, don't know where it goes.  :-//

So... my only hope is to persevere and try hard to trace that wire... it's my only hope... I MUST find where it goes !!!!  |O

OK, fixed !  :box:

However just like yesterday, it got fixed quickly in the first few minutes, but then I wasted 4 hours pulling my hair trying to fix a scope that didn't need fixing because I thought I had not completely fixed it in the beginning... when in fact I had. More below, just so you can laugh at my expense.


So I executed my "plan" exposed last night : I followed that mystery wire to see where it would lead, and if it would lead me to that 5nF disc ceramic mystery cap, C166, that I could not find anywhere.
Using side cutters, which were not easy to manoeuver in there, I managed to cut some of the lacing of that wiring harness. This partially freed the wires, and using tweezers I was able to wiggle my mystery wire to trace it... and I did see where it went. It goes to a cap, so that's cool, but NOT the expected tiny ceramic cap. No. Instead it goes to a big 10uF electrolytic metal can !!!!!  :o
It's a 3 section can, 3x10uF . It's C146. This cap is no stranger to the pre-amp, as you can see two of its sections, C146A and B, are used to decouple the 175V supply of the preamp. Fine. But the third section, 146C, according to the manual is found.... in the POWER SUPPLY section, where it filters the output of the 300V rail (the one used by our voltage divider in the preamp).

So... if they decided to repurpose that cap to filter the output of the voltage divider instead... then WHAT on earth is filtering the 300V rail, eh ?!  :scared: 
Also, replacing that 5nF ceramic cap with a huge 10uF electrolytic makes no sense does it ? A small ceramic is for HF stuff, big electrolytic is for low mains related ripple... makes no sense !
So could it be a brain fart from the guy who designed the wiring harness for that scope ? He connected that 10uF to the wrong end of the resistor ?!  :-//
Then this means that the 5nF ceramic cap has either not been implemented, by choice (maybe it was added later and the manual does not reflect the early models ? Possible I guess...).... or maybe they did mean to put it, and the girl at the factory simply forgot to solder it in.

At any rate, the electrolytic being removed from the 300V rail and instead filtering the voltage divider... seems fishy at best !!!  :scared:

So, I disconnected that cap, and hey presto as I hoped, voltage divider now outputs proper voltage ! 165V (not quite 175V but much better than 120 for sure  ! ).
So that cap is a bit leaky...

So, did that fix my power supply ? Nope... still 114 Volts instead of 175V !  :palm:

So I spent the next 4 hours trying this and that, pulling wires, testing and / or replacing resistors, disconnecting caps, pulling all my hair, disconnecting/isolating the 175V supply/regulation from the pre-amp altogether, to divide and conquer, still no joy....and eventually ran out of option, and concluded that the only possibility left is that the tube/triode, that I had already replaced last night... somehow already failed, open circuit, well, not conducting at all any more I mean. So, I flipped the scope to get to it from the top, for the first time in many hours, go to grab that tube and..... eh ? WHERE is that tube ! There is NO tube in there, its socket is empty !!!   :scared:  I must have removed it at some point and forgot to put it back ! 4 hours wasted !!!! :palm:   

Put the tube back in, works like a charm now ! I get 170Volts (a bit more than the voltage divider then), good enough !  :D  I have plenty enough gain, even needed to use the gain adjust trimmer to crank the gain way down  actually !
But now, looks good !  8)

Only problem left is the trace moving up and down a  bit. With now zero filtering on the voltage divider, plus crappy caps decoupling that pre-amp supply... no wonder. So I will replace these x3 10uF caps and I guess it should get rid of that problem !  8)


« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 04:27:09 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118264 on: April 24, 2022, 02:44:38 pm »
... but 100mm Alps faders is still a thing of beauty.

Give me Penny and Giles or give me death!
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118265 on: April 24, 2022, 02:57:11 pm »
... but 100mm Alps faders is still a thing of beauty.

Give me Penny and Giles or give me death!

Well, yes, of course. But I don't think the Series 200 has those. My Studer 169 has some in-house built contraption that comes apart for cleaning. Demin water and then some lubrication according to the restoration threads. Mine are noisefree and sonically impeccable, so will leave well alone.

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118266 on: April 24, 2022, 03:49:04 pm »
The repaired HV assembly installed into the Type 547. Have beautiful trace. Grid voltage on HV Oscillator currently about 68V. That's excellent. HV shows -1831V. Should be -1850V. Adjusted it.

We'll let it cook and see what happens. As long as grid voltage stays under 100V I'll consider it fixed. More later.



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Offline Peter_O

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118267 on: April 24, 2022, 03:53:48 pm »
... Now I have too many DMMs ...

I don't want to be rude,  :-[   ...

...    but that might be an axiomatic wrong assertion within the TEA scope.   :-DD
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118268 on: April 24, 2022, 04:10:56 pm »
The repaired HV assembly installed into the Type 547. Have beautiful trace. Grid voltage on HV Oscillator currently about 68V. That's excellent. HV shows -1831V. Should be -1850V. Adjusted it.
We'll let it cook and see what happens. As long as grid voltage stays under 100V I'll consider it fixed. More later.

Looking good Papa Smurf. Two questions :


Question #1 :

Measuring the HV..yours was only 1% off, so trying to improve on that means you are sure your measurement setup is actually that accurate.... but the 10M impedance of the DMM is rarely 10.00M... depending on particular meter and particular range used, it can vary usually (from what I measured on my own meters) from say 9 to 11Meg, so 10% error...  (I think Dave Jones did a video on that a while ago, too ?) so that 1830V shown by the meter is probably not 100% accurate anyway to begin with, could be 10% higher or lower...ie an error way higher than the last few volts you want to correct.

Also, I have no idea what the tolerance is on the HV probe resistance ?!  :-//


Question #2 :

What are these horrible horror freight hex nuts holding the CRT bezel in place, instead of the original thumb nuts ?!  :wtf: :horse:
Don't you have any spares ?!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 04:15:43 pm by Vince »
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118269 on: April 24, 2022, 04:28:32 pm »
The repaired HV assembly installed into the Type 547. Have beautiful trace. Grid voltage on HV Oscillator currently about 68V. That's excellent. HV shows -1831V. Should be -1850V. Adjusted it.
We'll let it cook and see what happens. As long as grid voltage stays under 100V I'll consider it fixed. More later.

Looking good Papa Smurf. Two questions :


Question #1 :

Measuring the HV..yours was only 1% off, so trying to improve on that means you are sure your measurement setup is actually that accurate.... but the 10M impedance of the DMM is rarely 10.00M... depending on particular meter and particular range used, it can vary usually (from what I measured on my own meters) from say 9 to 11Meg, so 10% error...  (I think Dave Jones did a video on that a while ago, too ?) so that 1830V shown by the meter is probably not 100% accurate anyway to begin with, could be 10% higher or lower...ie an error way higher than the last few volts you want to correct.

Also, I have no idea what the tolerance is on the HV probe resistance ?!  :-//


Question #2 :

What are these horrible horror freight hex nuts holding the CRT bezel in place, instead of the original thumb nuts ?!  :wtf: :horse:
Don't you have any spares ?!

Vince, to answer your questions.

My HV probe has a cal adjustment and I checked against a 500V source and it matches other DMM's measured to that 500V source directly. So I have a high level of confidence it's accurate. Yes, -1830V vs -1850V is nit picking but you should know by now I'm anal.  :-DD

When I picked up those two Type 547's last November neither had a bezel at all. I found one bezel in the carts but no thumb screws. So that's why those thumb screws aren't stock Tek parts. If I ever fix the other Type 547 I'm going to have to scrounge up a bezel as well as the thumb screws. 
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118270 on: April 24, 2022, 04:36:42 pm »
Quick update on the HV.

It's been on over 45 minutes and the grid is 71V and the HV a steady -1850V. Usually by 45 minutes the grid voltage is rising rapidly so this real encouraging. I have to go out so I'm going to have to shut it down for now.

Mounty, hold off informing Herr Felgendreher of the status until I get a chance to run it for a few hours which should be later today. But I have to say as of right now I'm pretty confident it's fixed.  :-+
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Offline Peter_O

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118271 on: April 24, 2022, 04:38:39 pm »
Do these connectors fit for an old HP3400A?

 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118272 on: April 24, 2022, 04:46:17 pm »
Looking good Papa Smurf. Two questions :

Vince, to answer your questions.

My HV probe has a cal adjustment and I checked against a 500V source and it matches other DMM's measured to that 500V source directly. So I have a high level of confidence it's accurate. Yes, -1830V vs -1850V is nit picking but you should know by now I'm anal.  :-DD

Wow, a trimmer on the HV probe, cool !  8)

Yes, why not calibrate it, stupid me... it's not that hard now I think of it... once can just measure say 500V DC from say the -150V and +350V of a Tek scope, then measure the same voltage but using the HV probe, note difference and run the math to know what error is introduced by the probe, and take that into account... or calibrate it out of course if the probe has such a luxury.
Yeah... I now feel the urge to exacate my HV probe and do just that ! It can't be calibrated but at least I want to measure the error it introduces so I can factor it out of any future measurements...



 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118273 on: April 24, 2022, 04:54:10 pm »
Until now, a low and slow weekend aquisition-wise. Finally got a 75Ohm-Attenuator which was added to the termination and filter. Should it turn out to be ok, I will remove the deformed TNC connectors (TNC on 75R? WTF??) and try to fit BNC jacks from the Suhner true75 series. 600Ohms was covered already, and multiple 50s of course, but I never got around to grab one of those.
And a clip-on temperature sensor (type K) for tubes etc. Fitted well in at 1.-€ as I stacked up on temperature sensors anyway.
Alas, the day is not over..
 
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #118274 on: April 24, 2022, 05:13:13 pm »
Went to the local radio rally this morning.
Not much there. Two bits of TE purchased. A Metrix (yes that spelling) MX67 "stick DMM. Ex MoD (Army) and clearly unused. It still had the frotecive film on the display etc. With case, working OK for £4  :-DMM one thing I did not realise is that they have a backlight. Handy meter to keep in the car.
Other TEA item was a HP 478A RF power sensor. Unfortunatly a quick check says both thermistors arms are open circuit.  :-BROKE Oh well only £2.  Other purchases were a Weller TCP iron for £2 and about 30,000 MFR25 through hole resistors on bandolier rolls for £5.
There were a few sub 60MHz 'scopes and a couple of AVOs but I didn't even ask prices. Loads of rubbish.

When I got home and was playing with the MX67 the washing machine started beeping and indicated a water leak  :palm:
Background to this,last month we found the service connection to this built in had a slow leak and ruined the floor. The underfloor was replaced by the insurance, but it was a nightmare. They did not refit the washer properly and trapped a hose. Then when I was in the USA last week it shut down beeping with a linterna; leak indication. SWMBO not happy. They sent a plumber who pulled the machine out, found nothing wrong but did not look inside the machine.
So today same thing. The machine is a Bosch and has a sealled base up to an inch or so and a float switch to detect any accumlation of water. So I pulled the machine out and took the back off. About a half a litre of water drained out during this process. this cancelled the warning so I restarted it and water was dripping off the concrete weight at the front of the machine. Further investigation and bits of machine all over the floor indicated no leaks from seals or pipe attachments. That only left the tub. On this model the tub is plastic with two halves bonded or welded together. At this point the decision was made to order a new machine. The faulty one is 26 months old, just two months ut of warranty. 
So that left the way open for "don't care" teardown. After finally getting the tub out I found two small areas that looked spalled out.
I also noticed a rattle in the tub and a inward dent in the drum that aligned with the tub damage. The rattle was a badly damaged fifty pence coin  :palm:
So new £740 machine arrives on Wednesday. That was money I wasn't planning on spending.I do now have a 250W permanent magnet 3 phase BLDC motor and drive electroincs. That will have to be played with. At 12,700 RPM it's a bit fast for the old Myford. ML2 though.
 
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