Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[med6753]

Am I correct in stating that "dipped headlights" are what we call "daytime running lights" here? Required in Canada. Not required anywhere in USA although most vehicles today have them. 2004 Civic doesn't have them. 2013 CR-V had them but no longer. Yes, I'm one of those assholes that disconnected them. Pull one fuse and presto. So can easily be restored. I had daytime running lights on a 2007 Grand Vitara and it seemed every 6 months I was replacing burnt out bulbs. So screw that. But I am diligent in using headlights when required. NYS does have a law that states if wipers are on then headlights must be on. And quite obviously at night. But on a bright, sunny day? Don't think so.

Flame suit on....give it your best shot.     

Here reasonable sellers have turned off that backlights off thing.

Here spring and autumn have also moments when the Sun is just above the road.
Turning over the lane then can be tricky.

In places like Finland and other Scandinavian countries I can understand the need for DRL's since the sun especially in Winter is low on the horizon. Same with upper Canada. But here the sun is still well above the horizon even in Winter.

[BU508A]

Consider yourself lucky. My play time is still stuck in a customs black hole for 8 days now. DHL certainly gets no awards for speedy service. 

Screenshot from the DHL website:


I'm really sorry, but I'm afraid, that nearly every delivery service over the pond is affected by the current situation. 

Makes no sense. It took less than 2 weeks to send it from here to You. Upwards of 60 days to send it from You to here? 

When you sent me the HV unit, there was no war in Europe. Now the situation has changed significantly (no-fly-areas, higher prices/costs for all sort of things including transportation, shortages of gasoline and kerosine etc.).

[med6753]

When you sent me the HV unit, there was no war in Europe. Now the situation has changed significantly (no-fly-areas, higher prices/costs for all sort of things including transportation, shortages of gasoline and kerosine etc.).

Yea, you're right. I'm not looking beyond my nose.

I'll go back into my hole. 

[Vince]

Nixie DMM repair update

Switches
This evening got a message from ebay... one of the two ebay sellers is telling me he did some digging and excavated some MORE of these 10mm DJET switches ! Asked if I might be interested...

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/125268668056

I might well be... 6 switches, 4 of the toggle type, and two push-buttons... the latter I have only one and they appear to be much harder to come by than the toggle form so... at only 10 Euros + 6 shipping... I think it's a good deal...  His ad allows for offers, so offer I will make...

Sent an offer for 8 Euros, guy accepted and not even a counter offer at 9 or something.

So for only 8 Euros I get 6 more of these switches, including two of these hard to come by push buttons.
I say good deal 

I feel I have now a growing fetish for these switches... I must refrain from buying them all... think I have enough of them now...

[GreyWoolfe]

Am I correct in stating that "dipped headlights" are what we call "daytime running lights" here? Required in Canada. Not required anywhere in USA although most vehicles today have them. 2004 Civic doesn't have them. 2013 CR-V had them but no longer. Yes, I'm one of those assholes that disconnected them. Pull one fuse and presto. So can easily be restored. I had daytime running lights on a 2007 Grand Vitara and it seemed every 6 months I was replacing burnt out bulbs. So screw that. But I am diligent in using headlights when required. NYS does have a law that states if wipers are on then headlights must be on. And quite obviously at night. But on a bright, sunny day? Don't think so.

Flame suit on....give it your best shot.     

When we had our 2012 Hyundai Sonata, it had DRL and auto on lights that came on when the wipers were turned on.  Owned the car for 3 years before selling it to one of our daughters and only replaced a tail light.  The 2013 Ram Tradesman cargo van doesn't have DRL but the 2018 Santa Fe does along with auto lights.  Mrs GreyWoolfe leaves the lights on auto.  We have the car since November of last year so we will see how long bulbs last.  We bought this from the other daughter and son-in-law updated the headlight assemblies to LED with the white 'eyebrow' affect above the headlights.  Actually like the look.  The DRL is a row of factory LEDs below the headlights.  Like Speck, I am also older and vision not quite as good and I do appreciate the DRL, especially that I drive quite a bit for work.  Florida has the same wipers and lights law but there are plenty that ignore it.  Also, lots of people, in heavy rain, will put their hazard lights on which is illegal.  I also like that the Santa Fe's lights automatically come on when the wipers are turned on in auto mode.  One less thing to remember.  The reality is the Santa Fe is her car and the cargo van is mine.  I rarely drive the Santa Fe.

[vk6zgo]

Given that I see someone on the roads doing that at least once a week there are clearly people out there who need all the help they can get.

It usually is a bragging masochist, i.e. someone who has gone through lots of strain and financial burden to drive what to all sane motorists is clearly inferior; a private import US made vehicle. Those cars don't have what is required on cars actually good enough to be driven in Sweden:

Here, dipped headlights, or similar dedicated illumination, also in daylight, has been the law since October 1, 1977. It is a clear benefit to safety. Whiners who gripe about the Man causing their bulbs to wear out can go fuck themselves. Sadly, the car lobby got their stupid, short-sighted "energy-saving" measure of allowing rear lights to be out in daylight through in 2011. At about the same time as LEDs were both good enough and legal to fit, making the "saving" a thoroughly moot point. 

My car is old enough to always light up automatically all-round, and the lit lamps will be the last thing they wring from my cold dead hands as I've hit an un-illuminated car... 

In Sweden, with your long, dark, Winters, it is a good idea, but in Australia, not so necessary.
Many people do drive with the headlights on dipped beam during the day, here, but the difference in visibility is indistinguishable for most of the year.
I have, on long drives, entertained myself by comparing the daytime visibility of unlit & lit vehicles, & have found that the main aid to visibilty during sunny days is reflections off the windscreen.
Most vehicles were visible from sunlight reflection well before their headlight condition was obvious.

OK, we do have a few dark days, & most people do turn on their headlights in those conditions.

[Vince]

Nixie DMM repair update

Trouble shooting

...
...
So... making progress I think.  Now have a plan of attack. Work on that dodgy oscillating comparator, and fix the non-working trigger circuitry.

Live update.

OK so I am following my plan above. After only a few minutes playing and scoping around, I noticed interesting things...

When the counter is free running, (ie one of the comparator is misbehaving, wrong state + pulsing), and I briefly ground the comparator output to get it back on track and stop the free running.... I notice that


1) No, it does not always display valid data.. it does stop free running (I check the clock output to make sure of that), however some, not all, of the Nixie tubes display garage, they display several, not all, digits at the same time. For instance right now I have tube #2 that displays  '7' and ' 9' at the same time, and tube #3 that displays '4' and '8' at the same time, and the other two tubes display a solid digits, only one. We know that the Nixie boards work just fine because when swapping the comparator board for the good one, all Nixie boards work just fine. This means the bad comparator board can somehow cause some Nixie boards to display garbage, even though I am 100% sure the counter is not being clocked. The most likely suspect now, is the Reset signal, because of course if it's invalid/crap, the flip-flops / counter on all the Nixie boards, will not reset properly and therefore the counter outputs can be in an invalid state, I would think. The reset signal is generated by the comparator board, so it adds up.

2) If I wiggle the Auto / Manual trigger switch, it can make the comparator output misbehave again, therefore causing the counter to free run again !
It is very repeatable / predictable, there is no red herring here I think. So, there is interaction between the comparator and the trigger circuitry, and it's the trigger that makes the comparator misbehave, not the comparator on its own. Well, looking at the schematic, one can see that on both comparator, one of their two flip-flop output is connected, via a diode, to the Reset signal generated by the Trigger circuitry ! Hmmm....


So, al in all, it looks like :

A) There is only one problem, the trigger circuitry. The "faulty" comparator is only misbehaving because the trigger is sending it a crap reset signal.

B) Looks like the display problems, be it free running, or displaying random garbage, is all due to a crap Reset signal.

Since the reset signal is generated by the Trigger circuitry, and since the latter doesn't even work at all at large.... the plan is now to leave the "faulty" comparator alone for now, and instead concentrate 100% on getting the Trigger circuitry working, and pay special attention to the "Quality" of the reset signal it generates.

Schematic below to help you out. trigger circuitry is circled in green, bottom right. In red, the output of the trigger section that goes to the ramp generator, where it splits in two paths : upwards, it goes to trigger the ramp generator. Downward branch, it generates (by RC differentiation), a reset pulse. Marked ' Z '. Stands for 'Zero', aka the Reset signal.  Signal is marked ni yellow... also in yellow  where it gets to the comparator flip-flops.

This update was brought to you by Nixie Frog Inc, patent pending.

[Cerebus]

Given that I see someone on the roads doing that at least once a week there are clearly people out there who need all the help they can get.

It usually is a bragging masochist, i.e. someone who has gone through lots of strain and financial burden to drive what to all sane motorists is clearly inferior; a private import US made vehicle. Those cars don't have what is required on cars actually good enough to be driven in Sweden:

Here it is no particular type or model of vehicle that forgets to turn on the lights when it's dark, just careless and inattentive drivers; certainly not US imports which are so rare here I see them perhaps once a year, lights or no lights.

Am I correct in stating that "dipped headlights" are what we call "daytime running lights" here? Required in Canada. Not required anywhere in USA although most vehicles today have them. 2004 Civic doesn't have them. 2013 CR-V had them but no longer. Yes, I'm one of those assholes that disconnected them. Pull one fuse and presto. So can easily be restored. I had daytime running lights on a 2007 Grand Vitara and it seemed every 6 months I was replacing burnt out bulbs. So screw that. But I am diligent in using headlights when required. NYS does have a law that states if wipers are on then headlights must be on. And quite obviously at night. But on a bright, sunny day? Don't think so.

Flame suit on....give it your best shot.     

DRLs have been a required fitment on all new cars built to EU regulations since August 2012. It wasn't done on a whim but because research showed that it improved safety, particularly pedestrian safety. And yup, it's a dumb arsehole who deliberately disables them, particularly if the "reason" is that it costs them a new lamp once in a while which must be a crippling imposition on top of the existing trivial standing and running costs of a car like maintenance, fuel and insurance.

The old car doesn't have DRLs fitted, but in the last few years I've taken to driving with dipped headlights in the daytime because as the stock on the roads gets newer overall the number of cars without DRLs is rapidly diminishing. It seems that drivers and pedestrians have got used to DRLs and I suspect that people now look for the DRLs rather than look for vehicles. I noticed that the number of drivers and pedestrians that can't see a bright red sports car moving towards them has been increasing, and then started to decrease again once I opted for headlights in full daylight. Hasn't even cost me a single lamp, so Lucas must be scoring one over Suzuki and Honda in this particular case.

In the case of the BMW it has DRLs, bloody bright ones. So bright in fact that at night they make the car light up like a Christmas tree just because you've unlocked it. They come on with any power on at all and I think I'd rather then didn't come on until you actually turned the 'ignition' on (or as BMW would have it, put the car into "drive ready mode"); as it stands they are 'anytime standing lights' rather than 'daytime running lights'.

[Cerebus]

Also, lots of people, in heavy rain, will put their hazard lights on which is illegal. 

I've always been of the mind that drivers who use hazard lights illegally or incorrectly are nevertheless using them appropriately. The lights are there to warn others of a hazard, in this case the driver of the vehicle in question.

[Specmaster]

Am I correct in stating that "dipped headlights" are what we call "daytime running lights" here? Required in Canada. Not required anywhere in USA although most vehicles today have them. 2004 Civic doesn't have them. 2013 CR-V had them but no longer. Yes, I'm one of those assholes that disconnected them. Pull one fuse and presto. So can easily be restored. I had daytime running lights on a 2007 Grand Vitara and it seemed every 6 months I was replacing burnt out bulbs. So screw that. But I am diligent in using headlights when required. NYS does have a law that states if wipers are on then headlights must be on. And quite obviously at night. But on a bright, sunny day? Don't think so.

Flame suit on....give it your best shot.     

When we had our 2012 Hyundai Sonata, it had DRL and auto on lights that came on when the wipers were turned on.  Owned the car for 3 years before selling it to one of our daughters and only replaced a tail light.  The 2013 Ram Tradesman cargo van doesn't have DRL but the 2018 Santa Fe does along with auto lights.  Mrs GreyWoolfe leaves the lights on auto.  We have the car since November of last year so we will see how long bulbs last.  We bought this from the other daughter and son-in-law updated the headlight assemblies to LED with the white 'eyebrow' affect above the headlights.  Actually like the look.  The DRL is a row of factory LEDs below the headlights.  Like Speck, I am also older and vision not quite as good and I do appreciate the DRL, especially that I drive quite a bit for work.  Florida has the same wipers and lights law but there are plenty that ignore it.  Also, lots of people, in heavy rain, will put their hazard lights on which is illegal.  I also like that the Santa Fe's lights automatically come on when the wipers are turned on in auto mode.  One less thing to remember.  The reality is the Santa Fe is her car and the cargo van is mine.  I rarely drive the Santa Fe.

I have had my car now for almost 9 years and have yet to replace any bulbs on it, they are for the most part all LED's and the headlights are Xenon which are also linked to the steering and speed, so they adjust the beam pattern the faster I go to provide a bright patch at the optimum distance ahead for the speed and as I steer round bends etc, the beam is angled towards the direction I'm going, very useful. At town speeds the beams adjust to provide a wide spread across from footpath to footpath on either side of me with the N/S beam slightly higher to not dazzle on coming drivers, and as I indicate or steer into in a corner, a fog angled towards the direction of the corner lights up the road in case there are pedestrians in the road. I love this car, it is great.

[mnementh]

Also, lots of people, in heavy rain, will put their hazard lights on which is illegal. 

I've always been of the mind that drivers who use hazard lights illegally or incorrectly are nevertheless using them appropriately. The lights are there to warn others of a hazard, in this case the driver of the vehicle in question.

You have no idea how many times I've said exactly this on seeing some particularly egregious bozo (one of the most common in Tejas is the one making a turn with hazards on, so you have no idea he's turning until he slams on his brakes just prior), both to myself and aloud to my passengers...

mnem
"Yes, it's a good thing you have your hazard flashers on... you are indeed a road hazard."   

[mnementh]

Given that I see someone on the roads doing that at least once a week there are clearly people out there who need all the help they can get.

It usually is a bragging masochist, i.e. someone who has gone through lots of strain and financial burden to drive what to all sane motorists is clearly inferior; a private import US made vehicle. Those cars don't have what is required on cars actually good enough to be driven in Sweden:

Here, dipped headlights, or similar dedicated illumination, also in daylight, has been the law since October 1, 1977. It is a clear benefit to safety. Whiners who gripe about the Man causing their bulbs to wear out can go fuck themselves. Sadly, the car lobby got their stupid, short-sighted "energy-saving" measure of allowing rear lights to be out in daylight through in 2011. At about the same time as LEDs were both good enough and legal to fit, making the "saving" a thoroughly moot point. 

My car is old enough to always light up automatically all-round, and the lit lamps will be the last thing they wring from my cold dead hands as I've hit an un-illuminated car... 

This.


It had nothing to do with energy-savings. It had to do with the "100,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty" BS they were flogging to make it look like US cars had build quality similar to their Japanese and European counterparts. I worked in a Dodge dealership when the first round of this went through; the manufacturer didn't like paying the dealerships ~$80-100 a bulb to do the service under warranty. This was just before they became part of Daimler-Benz; no idea if that acquisition changed this attitude, but I do know that even then the cars were designed with turn signals that had integrated DRL, which could be turned on/off using the DRBII scantool.

Interestingly, our 23-year-old Saturn still has the original headlight bulbs and DRL/turn signal bulbs; only side-marker and brake/marker bulbs have been replaced.

It did come equipped with 4000-series rough-service bulbs (lots of extra supports for the filaments) factory-installed. 

mnem

[Vince]

Nixie DMM repair update

Trouble shooting

...
...
So... making progress I think.  Now have a plan of attack. Work on that dodgy oscillating comparator, and fix the non-working trigger circuitry.

Live update.

Since the reset signal is generated by the Trigger circuitry, and since the latter doesn't even work at all at large.... the plan is now to leave the "faulty" comparator alone for now, and instead concentrate 100% on getting the Trigger circuitry working, and pay special attention to the "Quality" of the reset signal it generates.

Mass DMM checked all the components of the trigger circuitry. Good thing is I didn't have to care whether the readings were meaningful / exact or not because... all I needed to do is make sure it matched the same test on the working board. It did.

So then I pulled the two transistors, and checked them with my state of the art super expensive Chinese tester. Definitely the best 10 Euros I spent in the lab.
Tested both of them a few times, results were repeatable.
One looks good, the other is not even recognized as a transistor. More like a diode. Looks like base-emitter is seen as a diode, good "enough", but leaky. Collector-Emitter is very leaky and I think why the test fails to detect it as a transistor.

So... let's try to replace this transistor... either I salvage one from the good meter, which pains me, or I just replace it with whatever small signal PNP silicon tranny I can find in my drawers. Should be good enough to see if at least it makes some noticeable change...

[Vince]

EDIT : on the GOOD board... I noticed that both of these very transistors, have been replaced ! They are still the same type, Germanium 2N1305, however their solder joints have all been reworked, as the lack of conformal coating on them attests, plus, their metal can looks spotless and brand shiny new, unlike all the other trannies who have colour dots painted on them, a yellow conformal coating looking veil, and some patina, of course. So.... the trigger trannies look like they are a weak point on these boards !  Making progress eh ?!   

[mnementh]

Vince... dude... I just cringe whenever you say that...

This is a tranny:      Also a tranny:      NOT a tranny:   

mnem
I know it seems weird, especially coming from the resident "pervy widdle dwagon-fancier" over here... but please.... have mercy on this old PSB.

[Specmaster]

Nixie DMM repair update

Trouble shooting

...
...
So... making progress I think.  Now have a plan of attack. Work on that dodgy oscillating comparator, and fix the non-working trigger circuitry.

Live update.

Since the reset signal is generated by the Trigger circuitry, and since the latter doesn't even work at all at large.... the plan is now to leave the "faulty" comparator alone for now, and instead concentrate 100% on getting the Trigger circuitry working, and pay special attention to the "Quality" of the reset signal it generates.

Mass DMM checked all the components of the trigger circuitry. Good thing is I didn't have to care whether the readings were meaningful / exact or not because... all I needed to do is make sure it matched the same test on the working board. It did.

So then I pulled the two transistors, and checked them with my state of the art super expensive Chinese tester. Definitely the best 10 Euros I spent in the lab.
Tested both of them a few times, results were repeatable.
One looks good, the other is not even recognized as a transistor. More like a diode. Looks like base-emitter is seen as a diode, good "enough", but leaky. Collector-Emitter is very leaky and I think why the test fails to detect it as a transistor.

So... let's try to replace this transistor... either I salvage one from the good meter, which pains me, or I just replace it with whatever small signal PNP silicon tranny I can find in my drawers. Should be good enough to see if at least it makes some noticeable change...

Thats an ex transistor for sure.

[Vince]

Vince... dude... I just cringe whenever you say that...

This is a tranny:      Also a tranny:      NOT a tranny:   

mnem
I know it seems weird, especially coming from the resident "pervy widdle dwagon-fancier" over here... but please.... have mercy on this old PSB.

I am surprised, I have always seen transistors referred to affectionately as tranny / trannies ?! 
Same for transformers.

What am I missing ? 

[med6753]

DRLs have been a required fitment on all new cars built to EU regulations since August 2012. It wasn't done on a whim but because research showed that it improved safety, particularly pedestrian safety. And yup, it's a dumb arsehole who deliberately disables them, particularly if the "reason" is that it costs them a new lamp once in a while which must be a crippling imposition on top of the existing trivial standing and running costs of a car like maintenance, fuel and insurance.

I am extremely fastidious with my vehicle maintenance and I typically perform scheduled said maintenance well before it's recommendation by the manufacturer. Example is I change the automatic ATF every 30K miles. Honda recommends every 100K miles. If you recall I pro-actively bought new front rotors and pads in anticipation that they should be changed this May when the CR-V is due for inspection. When it comes to changing light bulbs....yea...it's no biggie. But I'm not totally convinced that DRL's are the big safety feature they are cracked up to be. And not required here so yup, I am an asshole. Meh...

So, in conclusion....

 

[med6753]

Vince... dude... I just cringe whenever you say that...

This is a tranny:      Also a tranny:      NOT a tranny:   

mnem
I know it seems weird, especially coming from the resident "pervy widdle dwagon-fancier" over here... but please.... have mercy on this old PSB.

I am surprised, I have always seen transistors referred to affectionately as tranny / trannies ?! 
Same for transformers.

What am I missing ? 

Vince, call them what you want. The problem is the dragon can't get the first picture out of his head. 

Maybe I should post the 80 year old stripper.

[mnementh]

Vince... dude... I just cringe whenever you say that...

This is a tranny:      Also a tranny:      NOT a tranny:   

mnem
I know it seems weird, especially coming from the resident "pervy widdle dwagon-fancier" over here... but please.... have mercy on this old PSB.

I am surprised, I have always seen transistors referred to affectionately as tranny / trannies ?!  Same for transformers. What am I missing ? 

Ummm... not anywhere I ever worked, nor in school.    Okaaayyy... maybe I am just weird. Well, we all know I am weird, so...


Consensus, guys... Is this a "thing", or am I just being weird about this thing...?


mnem
 

[med6753]

Vince... dude... I just cringe whenever you say that...

This is a tranny:      Also a tranny:      NOT a tranny:   

mnem
I know it seems weird, especially coming from the resident "pervy widdle dwagon-fancier" over here... but please.... have mercy on this old PSB.

I am surprised, I have always seen transistors referred to affectionately as tranny / trannies ?! 
Same for transformers.

What am I missing ? 

Ummm... not anywhere I ever worked, nor in school.    Okaaayyy... maybe I am just weird. Well, I know I am weird, so...


Consensus, guys... Is this a "thing", or am I just being weird about this thing...?

mnem
 

Go one post prior. 

[mnementh]

Well, no... it's more to do with the fact there are many things in an engineering scenario that could be abbreviated to this particular term. It is entirely too context-dependent.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Given that I see someone on the roads doing that at least once a week there are clearly people out there who need all the help they can get.

It usually is a bragging masochist, i.e. someone who has gone through lots of strain and financial burden to drive what to all sane motorists is clearly inferior; a private import US made vehicle. Those cars don't have what is required on cars actually good enough to be driven in Sweden:

Here, dipped headlights, or similar dedicated illumination, also in daylight, has been the law since October 1, 1977. It is a clear benefit to safety. Whiners who gripe about the Man causing their bulbs to wear out can go fuck themselves. Sadly, the car lobby got their stupid, short-sighted "energy-saving" measure of allowing rear lights to be out in daylight through in 2011. At about the same time as LEDs were both good enough and legal to fit, making the "saving" a thoroughly moot point. 

My car is old enough to always light up automatically all-round, and the lit lamps will be the last thing they wring from my cold dead hands as I've hit an un-illuminated car... 

In Sweden, with your long, dark, Winters, it is a good idea, but in Australia, not so necessary.
Many people do drive with the headlights on dipped beam during the day, here, but the difference in visibility is indistinguishable for most of the year.
I have, on long drives, entertained myself by comparing the daytime visibility of unlit & lit vehicles, & have found that the main aid to visibilty during sunny days is reflections off the windscreen.
Most vehicles were visible from sunlight reflection well before their headlight condition was obvious.

OK, we do have a few dark days, & most people do turn on their headlights in those conditions.

Yeah... even if rainy days aren't frequent, you still have dawn and dusk every day, which is when DRL are most important for safety.

It has been mandatory for motorcycles to have their headlights on anytime they are running (usually via a relay connected to the ignition) pretty much everywhere in the developed world since time out of mind; it is pretty obvious that daytime illumination on a vehicle improves highway safety. If it saves one life, this very simple, painless precaution is indeed a very small price to pay.

mnem
*toddles off to get screwed... err, find some screws*

[Vince]

Dwagon, no, looks like I am not losing it. Check out Wikipedia :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny_(disambiguation)

It confirms what I said, tranny is used for both transistors and transformers alike.

I don't see how I could possibly have invented something like this anyway... I get all my electronic "education" from EEVblog...

[Vince]

Nixie DMM update

I replaced both trannies in the trigger circuit. Looked in my stock for trannies with a similar round metallic package. First one I found was a 2N2905A.
Looked up the datasheet. PNP general purpose. current, voltage, hFE, speed... all better than the Germanium trannies.

Checked them with the tester before soldering them on the board, just in case... at the same time checked pinout. Same as the Germanium ones so can't go wrong.

Powered up the thing... no change. Still won't generate a trigger signal. Trigger circuitry still shows zero sign of life.
So...some other component in there must be bad... 

As always it's a pain to probe the board because components are not labeled, nor are they on the schematic either anyway, other than the trannies.