Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 18113454 times)

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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116600 on: March 29, 2022, 05:16:45 pm »
Long story short, I can't imagine what happened in your car, but if it is not gone, I would not think about it too much.

No worries, it had already fixed itself. I was just curious and spotted an opportunity to if see if there was any substance in my guesses.

PS: you are a smart guy...

An ODB to wired ethernet adapter? That's a slightly terrifying prospect. It's bad enough needing a 'clean' VLAN for the home entertainment/IOT stuff and hefty firewall rules to keep their excesses in check, creating one to plug your car's ODB port into takes it to a whole new level. On the other hand, that's under half the price of most of the Bluetooth ODB adaptors that I've seen previously - sehr cheap.

Would it let me charge the car using power over ethernet?  :)

Some of those are just converting CANbus to ethernet, so rather simple really.  Terrifying, absolutely. 
Restricting the CANbus to the subset of OBD messages is much less terrifying, but still terrifying nonetheless.
You cannot do too much damage staying within the standard OBD messages.  Venture outside of that into non-standard OBD messages or non-OBD messages and it is the wild west.  You have to hope your car has a good firewall!

Hmmnmm.  Ethernet is a differential pair.  CANbus is a differential pair.  How much power are you going to push over a pair of solid 24 AWG conductors?

An ODB to wired ethernet adapter? That's a slightly terrifying prospect. It's bad enough needing a 'clean' VLAN for the home entertainment/IOT stuff and hefty firewall rules to keep their excesses in check, creating one to plug your car's ODB port into takes it to a whole new level. On the other hand, that's under half the price of most of the Bluetooth ODB adaptors that I've seen previously - sehr cheap.

It's not to connect the car to the internet or any other sort of network.... (technically you could but it is not useful or necessary....), but to connect the car to your laptop  8)

I have a program called "OBD Wiz" which has a OBD port cable to USB. It's a fairly simple program that I can use to read out trouble codes and can display some vehicle function. But it cannot directly control nor change parameters in the ECU except perform a trouble code reset.

A lot of that software is coded to perform basic tasks only.  You only get as much functionality as built into the software.  That or course, depends on the level of effort of the developer.  With some more effort AND if the car manufacturer made an interface, it certainly could directly control nor change parameters in the ECU.  In my truck, there is a second CANbus available by prying out an air vent beside the radio/entertainment/display unit which connects directly to ECU, BCM, DCMs and more...

I'm guessing this is just a ethernet x-over cable connected to pins in the OBDII interface that BMW has reserved for a embedded webserver in the ECM?
mnem

Conceptually, your understanding is close enough.  There is some circuitry involved.  There is some level shifting involved (5V vs 15V) along with different hardware protocol and different message protocol.  A couple of transceiver chips and a tiny MCU would do the job.

The line of thought is headed in this direction, an open-source device with sample code and a choice of WiFI or Cellular...
https://store.carloop.io/
You roll your own application software, so it is both powerful and incredibly dangerous.

-- you're gonna do whaaaat with yer car?????


EDIT:  edited a bunch of times...
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 05:46:05 pm by cyclin_al »
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116601 on: March 29, 2022, 06:04:12 pm »
... seems to coincide with times when there's some particularly active/aggressive advert at the top of the page, hopping up & down like a Jack Russel terrier...   :o

AdBlock is your friend. See it once, plonk it, never download nor see it again. If you are feeling particularly aggressive, fiddle with the regex in the URL.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116602 on: March 29, 2022, 06:06:49 pm »
Prototyping, next level: the Voltera V-One PCB printer

https://www.voltera.io/product/pcb-printer



When I looked at the first adverts for it, a few years ago, I was unimpressed with the performance of the end result. Manhattan still rulez :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116603 on: March 29, 2022, 06:41:35 pm »
I'm guessing this is just a ethernet x-over cable connected to pins in the OBDII interface that BMW has reserved for a embedded webserver in the ECM?
No, a BMW is not a Raspberry pi.
You're right; a Raspberry Pi doesn't have nearly the same "smug bastard" factor...  :-DD

But actually, I was thinking more along the lines of how modern network connected printers are made to be managed remotely; at least those made since the age of AD domination.

mnem
No... wait... Octo-Beemer!!!  :-DD
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116604 on: March 29, 2022, 07:45:42 pm »
... seems to coincide with times when there's some particularly active/aggressive advert at the top of the page, hopping up & down like a Jack Russel terrier...   :o

AdBlock is your friend. See it once, plonk it, never download nor see it again. If you are feeling particularly aggressive, fiddle with the regex in the URL.
Get the geolocation of the advertiser and send the coordinates to a hovering reaper drone ...
 

Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116605 on: March 29, 2022, 07:58:08 pm »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116606 on: March 29, 2022, 07:59:05 pm »


Okay... Who the fuck vetted this...?    :wtf:

mnem
*Never surprised... but constantly amazed.*
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 08:07:42 pm by mnementh »
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116607 on: March 29, 2022, 08:04:51 pm »
... seems to coincide with times when there's some particularly active/aggressive advert at the top of the page, hopping up & down like a Jack Russel terrier...   :o

AdBlock is your friend. See it once, plonk it, never download nor see it again. If you are feeling particularly aggressive, fiddle with the regex in the URL.
Yebbutt... I really don't mind in this case. Since it puts money in Dave's pocket, I'm more than happy to engage my personal content filter.   :-//

mnem
If only some other folk would do so... :palm:
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 08:08:09 pm by mnementh »
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116608 on: March 29, 2022, 08:12:44 pm »
This Lakeshore teperature controller continues to surprise me. Clearly noise was a concern. The PSU uses two transformer. one of these has multiple electrostatic screens.  I bet it was expensive when new.
 
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Offline mnementh

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« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 08:30:50 pm by mnementh »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116610 on: March 29, 2022, 08:45:47 pm »
... seems to coincide with times when there's some particularly active/aggressive advert at the top of the page, hopping up & down like a Jack Russel terrier...   :o

AdBlock is your friend. See it once, plonk it, never download nor see it again. If you are feeling particularly aggressive, fiddle with the regex in the URL.
Yebbutt... I really don't mind in this case. Since it puts money in Dave's pocket, I'm more than happy to engage my personal content filter.   :-//

Still adverts remain, for that reason.

Blinkenlights disappear, end of story.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116611 on: March 29, 2022, 09:43:20 pm »
I don't even see them... I see the weirdness in eevBlog, then I see probable cause:-//

Adblockers in general are more assache than they're worth to me. The maintenance annoys me as much or more than the ads.

mnem

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  brunette, red-head. Hey, you uh… want a drink?"
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 10:03:53 pm by mnementh »
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116612 on: March 29, 2022, 10:03:07 pm »
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116613 on: March 29, 2022, 10:06:26 pm »


My horde.

mnem
"It only seems like that many of them dear."
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116614 on: March 29, 2022, 10:15:08 pm »
I don't even see them... I see the weirdness in eevBlog, then I see probable cause:-//

Adblockers in general are more assache than they're worth to me. The maintenance annoys me as much or more than the ads.

mnem

   "I don’t even see the code. All I see is blonde,
  brunette, red-head. Hey, you uh… want a drink?"


What maintenance?   :-//
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116615 on: March 29, 2022, 10:35:15 pm »
Fixing the exceptions list when it blocks content you actually want.

I suppose more recent versions are better at not fucking up your browsing... but honestly, I just don't care. Most of the sites I frequent, I don't mind letting them get their 0.1c per pagehit.  :P

mnem
I don't even mind the little Jack Russel terrier. ruff! :-//
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116616 on: March 29, 2022, 11:03:08 pm »
00H15 here. Worked today for a change, on the garage construction. so am tired.

I think I have only a few minutes left of consciousness, minutes that I will spend here with you because I love you all so very much.

Last week I received this bad boy, a new addition to my collection of old glowing Tek instruments...

It's a type 180A, a " Time Mark Generator ". At least that's what it says on the face plate !  >:D

It's got a million and one buttons and output jacks, makes it look REALLY expensive !  >:D

.. and it has... an OCXO !!! I told you it was expensive !!  >:D

I wanted one of those to calibrate my glowing Tek scopes when I will, eventually.. get round to restoring them.

It's more charming and cool to use, than an Arduino. Well, to me at least   :-//

I saw it for sale a few weeks ago at 100 Euros here on Leboncoin.fr as always (yeah I know, I ought to check Ebay as well  :-// )
Only one small pic of the front, super crappy, low res, can't enlarge it/zoom on it... so god knows what the inside looked like. Corrosion bucket, missing tubes, who knows...
Obviously sold "as is", what did you expect, a cal certificate or what ?!  :-//

So... 100 Euros + shipping for that... no. Still, I added the ad to my "Like" list.

Last week what do you know, ad got relisted, with mucho reduction, straight from 100 down to 40 Euros !

At that price I was willing to take the gamble and bought it. Add 20 Euros shipping, and for 60 Euros shipped I get this beast of a TE.

Overall I am happy, it's in great nick inside out, I mean rust wise, and all the tubes are still in it, a true miracle these days.

However the exterior has suffered from shipping damage, plus 2 strange never seen before mutilations from a previous owner.

Shipping damage, inevitable given the guy shoe horned the Tek into a box with zero padding....
It happened in the lower left corner of the front panel. There lies the grounding post. It took a big hit and moved inward. The post is now bent, pointing upward badly, but the real problem is the impact made a deep dent into the panel. It's concave all around the post, something like a 1/4" deep, I measured. It's BAD..... :rant:
I would need to dismantle the chassis to pull the front panel assembly out completely, so I can work on it at the bench. Hopefully I can "massage" it back to soften the damage, but I don't dream of making it flat and flush ever again, seeing as the thin/delicate aluminium of the face plate has been stretched obviously  :-\
So thank you fucktard for your packaging !!!  :--

Other 2 cosmetic problems, are two mutilations I can't quite fathom. See pics below obviously.

1) Bottom right corner of the face plate. There are 3 tiny nails stuck in there !?  :wtf:
I removed them, having 3 tiny holes is better to me the having 3 FOD.

2) At the top of the instrument, front of the carry handle bar. There is some FOD again stuck there ! A kind of metallic cylinder...  :wtf: again !  :-//
Again I removed it, now I am left with a threaded hole in the handle bar.. still less shocking to my eyes than this FOD. Maybe I can fill the hole and repaint the handle, since I am inclined to repaint the cabinet anyway as it's quite dark. A fresh coat of Tek blue would make it sparkle and shave decades off of it.

To finish with the cosmetic side of things, some attention is required at the top of the instrument. I have a large sticker residue to clean up, not too worried. Also, a black patch of gooey stuff toward the back... not too worried about that one either, should clean up fine I suspect. The leather handle, real leather this one, is actually not too bad. It's got lots of worn out spots as you can see, but otherwise it's in good nick. I mean it's not completely dried out. 90% of the leather is still there and in decent nick. No loss of material, it's not falling apart/ disintegrating like they often do. ... So I think I could just just clean the leather, then use some leather "repair" product, dyed black, to improve on the worn spots. Should look decent enough. If not well I will have a go at making a new leather handle..
The two chromed pads aren't pitted. They will buff out just fine with chrome polish.
The bare metal / non-chromed 'U' shaped piece that connects the leather with the chromed pads, has surface rust, but that's easy to fix.
So overall I think this handle can be made nice again.  8)


INSIDE
------------

Looks dusty but otherwise excellent. Design is "vertical" for a change. Main deck supports the PSU and the OCXO. Secondary deck holds a shit load of tubes !  :o
That deck opens up like a book, type 310A style, for those in the know. Or like the secondary time base on a 500 scope...
What I don't like is that for some reason, the hinge mechanism for the deck, does not allow to open it fully, 90° wide... even though the wiring harness is not in the way at all. It's purely the hinge that's artificially limiting the opening angle. Sucks, access is therefore not as good as it could be. 

OCXO is self contained, in a blue anodized can, that's conveniently socketed, on a "tube like" big octal socket.


Electrical and testing...
--------------------------------------

I noticed about 10 caps that will need to go real soon, no question asked : the black/red Sprague ones. There is even one cap that looks ancient, with a paper body !  ???  It's branded " Cornell Dubilier "...whatever... That one does not inspire a lot of confidence either...

On the secondary deck as you can see I am sure... right off the bat there is at least one bad tube : it's white inside....

Testing : don't have a Variac just yet, but as always I am just too impatient and curious to power it up to see what it might do, if anything.
But I did not want to blow this precious piece of TE either, so I did what I could : I dug out my dim bulb tester. See, I am making an effort here...

First with the power switch on the Tek in the OFF position, I turn the DBT on. The status light for the OCXO heater lights up, as expected.. a lovely bright green that I just love. Too bad the camera is incapable of capturing the actual green, and instead makes it look almost white  :-//
OCXO and whatever circuitry might be supporting it on the deck, clearly work : light comes on from cold, for a few minutes... then light turns off and you can hear a relay click (can't see a relay in the cabinet so I guess it must be hiding in the OCXO can itself), then 30 seconds later it comes on again, etc etc... so the heart of the beast, this crucial OCXO, looks like it's working, GREAT !  :D

Then I flip the power switch to the ON position. DBT lights up bright and solid, and the OCXO light turns off.... NOT good. A short somewhere. I am glad I used the DBT then  8)

So I need to find the short so I can test it further.

Stay tuned !  8)

1AM, 45 minutes to type all this, and still the pics to attach !  :scared:

Freaking going to BED... NOW !!  :=\

Too tired for proof-reading, will do tomorrow. for now, you get what you get sorry....


EDIT : proof-reading inside now, free of charge. We hope to see you soon in our store.


« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 02:05:45 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116617 on: March 29, 2022, 11:05:59 pm »
...
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116618 on: March 29, 2022, 11:41:57 pm »
That Type 180A looks to be in good shape despite the shitty packaging and damage. Shouldn't be too difficult to straighten out that jack.

What is on the other side of what appear to be rivets on the front panel? Edit, never mind. You removed them.

You can bet that C/D capacitor gave up the ghost a long time ago.

Unfortunately looks like the cabinet is going to need a re-paint. Too bad because the covers themselves aren't that bad except for the top portion.

That handle looks 50/50. It's the same style as on my Type 105 but mine is in better shape. 

I would not do any further power up testing until you confirm the PSU filter capacitors or you'll risk taking out the tube rectifiers.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 11:47:02 pm by med6753 »
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116619 on: March 29, 2022, 11:47:44 pm »
@Vince
Its so dammed annoying when people don't pack things properly, but at least they did provide you with 3 layers of cardboard on the front control panel, without that the damage might well have been more severe.

Those 3 nails and are actual special fixings for the makers' asset plate, giving you details of the model number, the serial number etc, which is missing so its my guess that it was a traffolyte  plate which has also been damaged at sometime in its life, and fell off.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 11:49:39 pm by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116620 on: March 29, 2022, 11:51:14 pm »
@Vince

Those 3 nails and are actual special fixings for the makers' asset plate, giving you details of the model number, the serial number etc, which is missing so its my guess that it was a traffolyte  plate which has also been damaged at sometime in its life, and fell off.

Bingo, you're right. Those miniature rivets were for a metal asset tag.  :-+
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116621 on: March 29, 2022, 11:55:25 pm »


IN OTHER NEWS: Firzzt Fryzz out of the Air-Fryer

This is the first batch; about 1/3 of 2 potatoes hand-cut into fries. Wifey is telling me I need to make more.  :-DD

They're really crispy right out of the air-fryer... but withing a minute or so they seem to soak up enough moisture from the air to get a little limp and more like traditional home fries.

Process is:

Cut potatoes into 8-12mm strips.

Blot dry with towel.

Spray lightly with oil.

Lay in one layer on basket at 380° Funkenstört for 8 minutes.

Flip fries, cook again at 425° Funkenstört for 4-6 minutes to desired brown level. I found that during this period, I'll have to grab individual fries (ones with thin tapered ends) out with long cooking tongs every 30 seconds or so so they don't burn.

Do that all again, then cut 2 more potatoes and do it all all again when wife & kids descend on them like a swarm of locusts.  :-DD

Not as simple as frozen out of a baggie... but... actually about as fast; maybe faster once I develop a routine. And maybe get another fry slicer.

mnem
*fried*
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 11:58:26 pm by mnementh »
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Offline salvagedcircuitry

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116622 on: March 30, 2022, 12:19:14 am »
Just picked up a 34465a for $460. Seller stated it had an error but went away.
I had him run a dedicated self test and it showed no errors.
Interesting.
it has firmware A.02.04, early firmware
I know there's no service manual for a 34465a, but figured it was worth the gamble.
Wonder if I overpaid.   :-BROKE
Best case is more gear for the lab  >:D

« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 12:47:50 am by salvagedcircuitry »
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116623 on: March 30, 2022, 12:57:15 am »
KeySight will not provide any assistance to you anyway (I bet).

34465s is a nice puppy congratulations!!!, your task is now to open a new thread and rev eng the entire device.
 :horse:  :clap:

also checking if it is in spec and if it is behaving properly (no drift...) is not a easy one....
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 12:58:47 am by Zucca »
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Offline salvagedcircuitry

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116624 on: March 30, 2022, 01:01:48 am »
KeySight will not provide any assistance to you anyway (I bet).

34465s is a nice puppy congratulations!!!, your task is now to open a new thread and rev eng the entire device.
 :horse:  :clap:

also checking if it is in spec and if it is behaving properly (no drift...) is not a easy one....

Simple, I'll just open "Hobbyist Electronics LLC"  :-DD
 
The following users thanked this post: Zucca, mnementh, Saskia


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