Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 16956449 times)

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Offline Simon

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116250 on: March 24, 2022, 10:16:29 pm »
I can see. And I have done so. Show me the "Rules" you claim to refer to, and where my post breaks them.

Here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/

specifically:
Quote
5) This is an electronics forum, so try to stay on-topic. We understand that threads drift off-topic, but try not to start deliberately and grossly off-topic stuff.
There are a couple of pet topics that always get out of control on forums, namely, religion, politics, gun and conspiracy theories. They are not welcome here.
Those who come here to mostly only contribute non-electronics related material are not welcome. There are forums for that stuff, this is not one of them.

You explicitly agreed to obey them when you signed up. We all did.

Even if keeping off politics was not part of the formal forum rules, common courtesy when everybody says "no politics, please stop it" would be to either stop it or go and find somewhere else to play where people aren't repeatedly asking you to knock it off, not argue the toss every time. Most people who are politely asked to keep off politics either wander off, or shut up, refrain from doing so in future, and, more often than not, apologise for overstepping the line.

I can tell you from watching it happen in front of me, that the moderators are taking a zero tolerance attitude towards anything vaguely political related to Russian/Ukraine at the moment.
Again: World events, NOT Politics. No matter how many times you say it is, that doesn't change the facts. Added to the fact you're literally making a positional flip-flop from earlier arguments, I can only assume you're really couldn't care less about the issue at hand... as we've seen before, you are just in it for the argument.

Furthermore, the issue I attempted to illuminate is a financial aspect of the Ukraine situation that directly affects every ordinary citizen's personal finances, and the impact on shipping and finance directly affects availability & cost of the TE we discuss in here.

You have now spent literally half a page berating me for something I did not do. But hey; that's how you always do it, C. You redefine the narrative, then argue against that narrative as if it had anything to do with what is actually going on.

Cheers,

mnem
You bore me.

The thing is, that people don't want to hear about it in here. That's all. It seems that you are incapable of hearing that, no matter how many times you are politely asked. Your rudeness at flatly refusing to listen to Mounty's request is the only thing that prompts me to try and get you to listen.

Are you the moderator? NO! so you reported it, now for the love of god stop!!!!!!!
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116251 on: March 24, 2022, 10:18:00 pm »

The chopped liver in question is the Jewish staple. I'm pretty unfazed by messy, even apparently yucky, foods, but the chopped liver sold by Kosher butchers and in the supermarkets fits my definition of "I've seen it, I don't think I want to eat it". I grew up in a town with a large Jewish population, so I've seen a lot of it. I happily eat liver pate or a well cooked calve's liver (they used to do a very good one at my favourite Italian restaurant) but I draw the line at chopped liver (and gefilte fish).

Ah, of course. The chicken liver I mention is added as a yummying agent to a mincemeat sauce. Does only register as a "more meaty" taste.  Even the liver-haters here like it.
I've never had a liver pate that didn't make me instantly want to *blerk*; but I will admit to very occasionally (as in once or twice a year) getting a hankering for a slice of liverwurst browned in butter, then immediately slapped on a toasted, buttered seeded rye bread (timing of the toasting/buttering is everything with this, or the rye has time to turn into Melba toast: yukkk) with lots of sweet Vidalia onions, bread and butter pickles, and yellow mustard. Washed down with one frosty (actually the first, not-skunky half) bottle of Heinekin lager or imported Guinness with the little marble in it. Also frosty-cold. (ducks soggy ol' boots)

mnem
There must've been a Günther in the polack-dwagon's family tree somewhere, and every once in a while he takes control of my tastebuds.  :-DD
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116252 on: March 24, 2022, 10:51:37 pm »

A friend who works for an ISP / Orange, told me all it's because of all the stupid people who insist that their life depends on 4K and Netflix. Huge B/W required for that, everybody connecting at the same time in the evening... so the ISPs, all of them here, prioritize their B/W to serve all the Netflix and television / streaming services, to make sure they don't drop a frame or anything to make all the Tv and Series addicts happy... and the people surfing the web get whatever is left of the B/W.. ie. they get squat, way, way, wayyyyyy less than the high speed the y paid for and were promised !

This is quite typical for southern Europe. As people, for various reasons, started to work from home a couple years ago, the ISP's in southern/central Europe discovered what careless oversubscription in backbone and distribution will do to your network when people actually insist on using it. Some very instructive lessons were learned by all involved.

Up here, we mostly survived unscathed, for it was much better built. I was present at a "crisis" meeting of engineers from all the big ISP's and quite a few of the small ones when usage patterns really started to change. We concluded that our loads were all in all manageable. A bit more traffic in the day, some, but not much, cutting of peaks in the new-traditional "hot hours" from 19 to 23 at night, and no real problems.  Hardest problem was chipageddon, actually. (which is on-topic, so, there!)
Hey... come on now. For cord-cutters, this is a fundamental lifestyle choice. We chose to kick commercial TV to the curb, because we are willing to pay a premium for what we want to watch, and to do so without being bludgeoned with commercials every 7 fucking minutes. I want my kids to grow up understanding that this is not normal, and it is not a healthy way to live.

As for 4K... a lot of us get it whether we want it or not. I have a 4K Roku TV in the LR right now, and I tried setting it up to default to lower resolution so all our TVs/PCs/iPuds, etc have plenty of BW; it will reset itself to 4K mode in less than a week every time.  :o

Remember, the ISPs are the ones who've been promising us unlimited data and high BW for decades now; if they can't provide it they need to fix their house, not bitch at the customers for using what they pay for.

mnem
*huggles his Nokia ONT close*  >:D
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116253 on: March 24, 2022, 11:10:35 pm »

Remember, the ISPs are the ones who've been promising us unlimited data and high BW for decades now; if they can't provide it they need to fix their house, not bitch at the customers for using what they pay for.

mnem
*huggles his Nokia ONT close*  >:D

The big problem was not TV. It was video conferencing. Coupled with bad (as in McScrooge financed) network buildout strategy.

The TV watching part, that's actually pretty easy. Once you get large enough as ISP, the streaming companies will talk to you about getting  caches set up in your net.  Akamai led the way early on (I installed an Akamai cluster back in 2002 or so, IIRC), and the others follow. Given the herd mentality, while acknowledging the very long tail of more exquisite tastes, a surprisingly small amount of storage will satisfy nearly all VOD streaming requests in a standard audience. 

For the record: I work at a TV company that is free from advertising. There are such ones.

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116254 on: March 24, 2022, 11:11:23 pm »


And no, you're not chopped liver. Even at your worst, you aren't that disgusting.

Gee, thanks. I'll have to try harder next time to be totally disgusting.

 :palm:

You mean, you will do two ropes at the same time?  ???  ;D  ;D

No, three.  :-DD

There is something about Mary med6753:
https://youtu.be/GHxzoNq_rzg

 :scared:  ;D


mnem
*shriveling up involuntarily*
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116255 on: March 24, 2022, 11:28:34 pm »

A friend who works for an ISP / Orange, told me all it's because of all the stupif people whi insist that their life depends on 4K and Netflix. Huge B/W required for that, everybody connecting at the same time in the evening... so the ISPs, all of them here, prioritze their B/W to serve all the Netflix and television / streaming services, to make sure they don't drop a frame or anything to make all the Tv and Series addicts happy... and the people surfing the web get whatever is left of the B/W.. ie. they get squat, way, way, wayyyyyy less than the high speed the y paid for and were promised !

This is quite typical for southern Europe. As people, for various reasons, started to work from home a couple years ago, the ISP's in southern/central Europe discovered what careless oversubscription in backbone and distribution will do to your network when people actually insist on using it.

Some very instructive lessons were learned by all involved.

Up here, we mostly survived unscathed, for it was much better built. I was present at a "crisis" meeting of engineers from all the big ISP's and quite a few of the small ones when usage patterns really started to change. We concluded that our loads were all in all manageable. A bit more traffic in the day, some, but not much, cutting of peaks in the new-traditional "hot hours" from 19 to 23 at night, and no real problems.  Hardest problem was chipageddon, actually. (which is on-topic, so, there!)
Well I guess that I'm a lucky so and so because I can assure everyone that I'm getting what I paid for, in fact I'm getting more than I paid for, not that I'm complaining. I pay for 350Mbps D/L and 30Mbps U/L and we do use a lot of bandwidth here. My 2 sons are on the gaming consoles most of the time playing online games, with their PC's also web connected, then there is me, always on the web. We also have many devices always connected to Wi-Fi, 4 mobiles, 2 iPads.
 
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116256 on: March 25, 2022, 12:04:44 am »
No, this is too important. This is affects each and every one of us.
I warned clearly that it is an OT: World Events post; you can skip over it if you don't want to read it. But zero-tolerance is just unacceptable.

No, that's not how this works. You either leave the politics off this forum or you'll get banned. Especially when it pollutes existing established threads like this one.
I've deleted your post, please don't do it again.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116257 on: March 25, 2022, 12:05:50 am »

A friend who works for an ISP / Orange, told me all it's because of all the stupif people whi insist that their life depends on 4K and Netflix. Huge B/W required for that, everybody connecting at the same time in the evening... so the ISPs, all of them here, prioritze their B/W to serve all the Netflix and television / streaming services, to make sure they don't drop a frame or anything to make all the Tv and Series addicts happy... and the people surfing the web get whatever is left of the B/W.. ie. they get squat, way, way, wayyyyyy less than the high speed the y paid for and were promised !

This is quite typical for southern Europe. As people, for various reasons, started to work from home a couple years ago, the ISP's in southern/central Europe discovered what careless oversubscription in backbone and distribution will do to your network when people actually insist on using it.

Some very instructive lessons were learned by all involved.

Up here, we mostly survived unscathed, for it was much better built. I was present at a "crisis" meeting of engineers from all the big ISP's and quite a few of the small ones when usage patterns really started to change. We concluded that our loads were all in all manageable. A bit more traffic in the day, some, but not much, cutting of peaks in the new-traditional "hot hours" from 19 to 23 at night, and no real problems.  Hardest problem was chipageddon, actually. (which is on-topic, so, there!)

What matters for the heavy streaming loads is exactly what the distribution network looks like.

The transit/backbone side of things is a much smaller consideration, with the proviso that the ISP is big enough for the streamers (Netflix et al.) to take notice of. If you're big enough to be interesting then the streamers will actually co-locate caching/distribution boxes on your network taking a lot of load off transit and peering circuits. This started with Inktomi back in the 1990s, who would put a CDN node in any ISP that would have them. Inktomi are gone and forgotten, but I still have several really good nylon shoulder bags with Inktomi logos embroidered on them that lasted longer then the company did. For the really big telcos the likes of Apple and Google will also colocate boxes to terminate traffic within the telco/ISP network as far as possible rather than backhauling it to their own data centres

Where it gets hairy is what the distribution network looks like. ADSL and VDSL networks when they were built out had fairly high contention ratios where the ADSL/VDSL modems met the backhaul to the core networks, BT's original consumer ADSL2 network typically had a 40:1 contention ratio at the exchange->backhaul interface and their older ADSL1 network was 100:1 - with 100 customers all sharing a single 2Mbit E1 backhaul.

Things have got much better now that fibre to the cabinet is the typical lowest common denominator, with a cabinet having fibre backhaul it's been easy to upgrade them. One street cabinet will serve perhaps 50-100 end customers and 10G or 40G backhaul is now common. Add in some statistical multiplexing/diversity and 10G will serve the actual demand from 100 customers quite nicely, they each get a nominal 100Mbit chunk and can burst to 300Mbit without causing trouble. 40G will suffice to serve PON at 1Gbit for a while, but don't be surprised if 1G becomes more common that things slow down for a while because I suspect that might need some 'fork-list upgrades' as 40G was the fastest that I think most telco's cabinet switches of the last generation were capable of.

Back on the old ADSL distribution systems the aggregation routers at the exchanges were about as dumb as they could be and still do their jobs, any quality of service processing was a pipedream. The newer FTTC cabinet located gear looks more like software defined networking switches and are even capable of inspecting packets inside L2TP tunnels and doing useful quality of service processing to keep latency down for real time traffic like video conferencing while still providing useful burst bandwidth at higher latency for streaming and the like. It was also a prerequisite for everything to switch to VOIP from copper for fixed-line telephony, no way were they going to risk that without the ability to control the latency of their own telephone traffic.

It's the older rural and rural-ish stuff, and low income neighbourhoods that causes headaches, and I suspect that Vince may fall into this hole. They don't want to go to the expense of the fibre rollouts that 'modern' broadband needs, when a fibre pull to a cabinet may only be serving a handful of dwellings - lots of capital expenditure for a handful of customers. So you get what Vince's situation sounds like where you're still on copper for 5km or more to get to a place where enough customer's circuits can be concentrated into that they deem it economic to pull fibre to.

Of course the real solution to streaming congestion existed a long time ago, native multicast. At the LINX we ran an experimental native multicast peering exchange and we even had an early version of BBC iPlayer running over it. But although it worked well enough we never managed to attract critical mass to it.

With native multicast your local machine tells its upstream router that it wants to subscribe to a particular stream, that router tells the router upstream from it and so on. So if five households on the same street cabinet want to watch the same stream only one copy of that stream goes to the cabinet, and then five copies of that stream are sent onward - four streams worth of bandwidth on the cabinet's backhaul are freed up compared to the current situation of five whole identical streams going all the way through the system. The same savings can be made at each level of router hierarchy.

Something very similar is how the streamers concentrate traffic at the ISP if they have a co-located server there. One copy is hauled into the ISP over transit or peering, but multiple copies are forwarded on to the consumers, but without the benefit of multicast at the intermediate stages of the ISP network. So 100s or thousands or 10s of thousands of copies of the same stream may all be being pushed side by side through the ISPs distribution network. If you've ever started streaming something and it has taken 15 seconds to start, it's the traffic concentrating box waiting for a slot in the hope that another customer who also wants to watch it comes along, and it can haul one stream for the two of you back from wherever it starts from (there are also technical reasons why even if it already has the stream it pays to play it out simultaneously to as many customers as possible [avoiding disk reads, buffer copies etc.]).
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116258 on: March 25, 2022, 12:25:10 am »

Remember, the ISPs are the ones who've been promising us unlimited data and high BW for decades now; if they can't provide it they need to fix their house, not bitch at the customers for using what they pay for.

mnem
*huggles his Nokia ONT close*  >:D

The big problem was not TV. It was video conferencing. Coupled with bad (as in McScrooge financed) network buildout strategy.

The TV watching part, that's actually pretty easy. Once you get large enough as ISP, the streaming companies will talk to you about getting  caches set up in your net.  Akamai led the way early on (I installed an Akamai cluster back in 2002 or so, IIRC), and the others follow. Given the herd mentality, while acknowledging the very long tail of more exquisite tastes, a surprisingly small amount of storage will satisfy nearly all VOD streaming requests in a standard audience. 

For the record: I work at a TV company that is free from advertising. There are such ones.
*Bows* Thank you. ;)

Yes, when I say Commercial Broadcast, I refer specifically to media that exists to Broadcast Commercials, and any actual content which may come along with is at best a tertiary or quaternary concern. You know who you are.  >:(

mnem
So YOU are the reason I had to torrent The Incredible Hulk. :P
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116259 on: March 25, 2022, 12:26:42 am »
No, this is too important. This is affects each and every one of us.
I warned clearly that it is an OT: World Events post; you can skip over it if you don't want to read it. But zero-tolerance is just unacceptable.

No, that's not how this works. You either leave the politics off this forum or you'll get banned. Especially when it pollutes existing established threads like this one. I've deleted your post, please don't do it again.
Thank you Dave. I'm sorry. I promise, I thought it was on the other side of the line.

Cheers,

mnem
*adjusted*
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116260 on: March 25, 2022, 03:25:11 am »
After 3 years suffering with the crappy 4G internet box that never worked..... a year after having installed the copper lines in my new house.... today I finally have ADSL working, a WIRED connexion, none of the 4G rubbish ! A technician came to see why the copper line didn't work last week when I received the ADSL box. He injected a signal o my end of the line in the house, then used a signal tracer/detector to "snif" the signal... 500mw down the road on top of a pole was a little junction box. My cable got in, got out of that box... but inside the box it was not connected... he fixed that. Came back the house to test the line... still no joy. Moved 2kms from my house, at the interconnect little building that feeds the entire village... found some shit in there, fixed that.. now it works.

[snip]

So now hopefully I should be able to click on Mansaxel smart phone 5MB 15MP cooking pics....Post some Mansaxel, let's see how it goes...

As for fiber, I have seen the cabinet dedicated to it 1+ kms from my house, at the very end of my street. Lots of fibers in there...
95% of the street now have fiber interconnet boxes mounted on the poles next to the houses along the street... so these people can now be connected.
But the last 5% still have no boxes on the poles... so no fiber for me for now. I guess / hope it will come soon enough. I am in no hurry, VDSL2 plenty good enough for me.



Hmmmmm... I used to be able to count on you to convince myself that it could be worse.  I am very very jealous now ....
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 03:43:42 am by cyclin_al »
 
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116261 on: March 25, 2022, 03:38:59 am »

It's the older rural and rural-ish stuff, and low income neighbourhoods that causes headaches, and I suspect that Vince may fall into this hole. They don't want to go to the expense of the fibre rollouts that 'modern' broadband needs, when a fibre pull to a cabinet may only be serving a handful of dwellings - lots of capital expenditure for a handful of customers. So you get what Vince's situation sounds like where you're still on copper for 5km or more to get to a place where enough customer's circuits can be concentrated into that they deem it economic to pull fibre to.


I suspect this is my situation as well, although the conditions in the first sentence do not fit.  We are on the maximum length of copper.  Due to variations in weather, I also suspect the copper may not be in the greatest of shape and the insulation of it may be compromised.

Of course, the other shady practices of ISPs that Vince described are well known to happen here in the GWN.  Some of which are plainly written into the contracts that ISPs provide, although I feel like I am the only person who read that far (even I did not read the whole contract...).

Maximum return on investment = getting away with sub-par service
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 03:48:34 am by cyclin_al »
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116262 on: March 25, 2022, 03:39:34 am »
For wired Vince's pings are pretty slow but who knows how many hoops his IP puts in the way to the selected ping server.
We cut the copper umbilical cord a few years back as our ADSL1 was pitiful as its backhaul link was 3 pairs of 2MB copper supplying 50 subscribers !  :horse:
Instead we are using a 5GHz LOS link over 10km now which most of the time is pretty good unless you need move GB's.  :o
Quick test as a comparison.
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116263 on: March 25, 2022, 03:57:20 am »
For wired Vince's pings are pretty slow but who knows how many hoops his IP puts in the way to the selected ping server.
We cut the copper umbilical cord a few years back as our ADSL1 was pitiful as its backhaul link was 3 pairs of 2MB copper supplying 50 subscribers !  :horse:
Instead we are using a 5GHz LOS link over 10km now which most of the time is pretty good unless you need move GB's.  :o
Quick test as a comparison.

Hmmm, I thought Vince's pings were quite fast.  Typical pings in the GWN on ADSL are in the range of 30ms.  My service is more in the range of 34 to 43ms.


Something to cheer me up:
dinosaur-themed pliers (different packaging on the PZ-58 compared to others here), thanks to enablers here.  Also, a kijiji find of 19 partial reels of Vishay 1% resistors for $10 CAD.  0603 is one size smaller than anything else I previously had.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 04:07:10 am by cyclin_al »
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116264 on: March 25, 2022, 06:41:57 am »

Of course the real solution to streaming congestion existed a long time ago, native multicast. At the LINX we ran an experimental native multicast peering exchange and we even had an early version of BBC iPlayer running over it. But although it worked well enough we never managed to attract critical mass to it.

With native multicast your local machine tells its upstream router that it wants to subscribe to a particular stream, that router tells the router upstream from it and so on. So if five households on the same street cabinet want to watch the same stream only one copy of that stream goes to the cabinet, and then five copies of that stream are sent onward - four streams worth of bandwidth on the cabinet's backhaul are freed up compared to the current situation of five whole identical streams going all the way through the system. The same savings can be made at each level of router hierarchy.

Something very similar is how the streamers concentrate traffic at the ISP if they have a co-located server there. One copy is hauled into the ISP over transit or peering, but multiple copies are forwarded on to the consumers, but without the benefit of multicast at the intermediate stages of the ISP network. So 100s or thousands or 10s of thousands of copies of the same stream may all be being pushed side by side through the ISPs distribution network. If you've ever started streaming something and it has taken 15 seconds to start, it's the traffic concentrating box waiting for a slot in the hope that another customer who also wants to watch it comes along, and it can haul one stream for the two of you back from wherever it starts from (there are also technical reasons why even if it already has the stream it pays to play it out simultaneously to as many customers as possible [avoiding disk reads, buffer copies etc.]).

Yeah, I miss the days when multicast was available on the Internet. Would have made a lot of problems easier, while complicating others.

The current trend away from linear programming into video-on-demand is sort of hard to satisfy using multicast (unless there's caching involved of course). The realm of simultaneous events best appreciated in near-real-time is today more or less reduced to sports.

One of the problems with multicast was just the puny DSLAM nodes you mentioned, whose under-powered, over-priced hardware would deal very badly with the largely trivial task of multiplying packets.  This put a financial strain on the distribution network which was, and remains so, the least profitable part of the infrastructure, where few subscribers pay for quite a lot of hardware and cable plant.

This of course also made bean counter heads explode because they could not fathom that someone elses stream being expanded in their network was a benefit. Surely, it was work performed, and therefore had to be billed!

The technical arguments for multicast are good enough, though, that in the coveted "triple-play" model where the ISP becomes telco and cable TV company and bills one inflated bill for various IP traffic, quite often employs a multicast delivery model for linear TV.  But this of course is not an Internet service; it can't be moved outside the provider net.

Similarly, in TV production, multicast is king. We handle several 100 gbit of multicast in our internal net. It leaves the house as unicast, though.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 06:44:07 am by mansaxel »
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116265 on: March 25, 2022, 08:37:16 am »

It's the older rural and rural-ish stuff, and low income neighbourhoods that causes headaches, and I suspect that Vince may fall into this hole. They don't want to go to the expense of the fibre rollouts that 'modern' broadband needs, when a fiber pull to a cabinet may only be serving a handful of dwellings - lots of capital expenditure for a handful of customers. So you get what Vince's situation sounds like where you're still on copper for 5km or more to get to a place where enough customer's circuits can be concentrated into that they deem it economic to pull fibre to.


Nto sure what you mean ? I did say that I have got fiber in the street, fiber cabinet located in my very street, exchange only 1km away, down my street + a few meters. See map below.

It's all very new, so as I said 90+ of the houses in my street are not connect-able to the fiber : the fiber has been routed (in the air, along the copper lines) from the Fiber cabinet to a little box on the pole in front of their house, but since the cabinet is at one end of the street, which is quite long as you can see, and I happen to be at the other end of the street... they obviously progress from the cabinet towards the other end of the street, one house after the other, so mine will probably connected in a few weeks or months I guess.

But yes your remark still holds true for most villages in France, where even ADSL is not an option since the signal get weak fast.

But the country is now at long last putting a real effort into installing fiber every where, I mean in every village, not just town centers... We are getting modern at last.

Then again as I said, I am in no hurry since I already I will get crap speeds during the evening peak hours anyway, so fiber or ADLS makes no difference. As long as the ISP don't build an infrastructure that can actually deliver the bandwidth they advertise to get you dreaming, and charge you for... then it will be forever hopeless regardless of the technology used.
Since ISP will never change because it would cost them money and witness that they can away with the current situation just fein.... there is absolutely zero reason why the situation will ever change/ improve.

So, I absolutely don't care about fiber really... nice tech in thery, but rendered pointless by the way the ISP implement it : profit first, quality of service very, very last.

So I guess I will only switch to it in 2 or 3 years when I have no choice because the land lines / copper lines are planned to be disconnected/obsoleted by that time, from what I gathered over here.


« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 11:15:22 am by Vince »
 

Offline david77

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116266 on: March 25, 2022, 09:12:17 am »
Sometimes experiments take a very unexpected turn. The 7904 fan install has done just that. Connected up the fan and powered up and all seemed fine, at first. The fan started up and had a nice draft demonstrating it was pulling air through the scope. Looks good. But wait. All is not good. The intensity on the CRT has gone wacko. I can't kill the beam with the intensity control. And the trigger on both time bases is FUBAR too. I get "ghosting" on the trace or it won't trigger at all. If I disconnect the fan everything returns to normal. Connect it and the issues return.

I don't know if the fan motor itself is upsetting the scope or the fact that it's connected into the +15V bus that's causing the issue or perhaps a little bit of both. But clearly this won't work. So I have to decide what to do for here. Leave the scope as it was with no additive cooling (and it worked just fine) or try to identify exactly what is causing the issue.  :-//

I've noticed before that some fans screw up the power badly, in fact when I read your post installing a fan in a scope I thought: "Hope that doesn't screw up his scope.".

I've never inverstigated the issue fully but I think the problem is back EMF from the motor. I've usually had good results with a well regulated supply. Big cap, regulator, back EMF diode across the motor.
 
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Offline david77

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116267 on: March 25, 2022, 09:25:57 am »

Nto sure what you mean ? I did say that I have got fiber in the street, fiber cabinet located in my very street, exchange only 1km away, down my street + a few meters. See map below.

It's all very new, so as I said 90+ of the houses in my street are not connect-able to the fiber : the fiber has been

...


You might want to delete this pic. The whole internet knows where you live now.
 

Offline ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116268 on: March 25, 2022, 09:31:43 am »

Nto sure what you mean ? I did say that I have got fiber in the street, fiber cabinet located in my very street, exchange only 1km away, down my street + a few meters. See map below.

It's all very new, so as I said 90+ of the houses in my street are not connect-able to the fiber : the fiber has been

...


You might want to delete this pic. The whole internet knows where you live now.
Theres a whole pilgrimage of Tek collectors worshippers from all over europe on the move already, to come to the collection and maybe touch a blue scope in passing  :popcorn:
Better put out a few parasol and a water cooler on the porch to prepare  :scared:
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116269 on: March 25, 2022, 09:33:57 am »

Nto sure what you mean ? I did say that I have got fiber in the street, fiber cabinet located in my very street, exchange only 1km away, down my street + a few meters. See map below.

It's all very new, so as I said 90+ of the houses in my street are not connect-able to the fiber : the fiber has been

...


You might want to delete this pic. The whole internet knows where you live now.

+1
 

Offline david77

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116270 on: March 25, 2022, 09:34:29 am »
I think can see them  ;).
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116271 on: March 25, 2022, 09:46:05 am »
Vince, just print this to display in your window for next time Google drives by.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116272 on: March 25, 2022, 09:56:47 am »

Nto sure what you mean ? I did say that I have got fiber in the street, fiber cabinet located in my very street, exchange only 1km away, down my street + a few meters. See map below.

It's all very new, so as I said 90+ of the houses in my street are not connect-able to the fiber : the fiber has been

...


You might want to delete this pic. The whole internet knows where you live now.
Theres a whole pilgrimage of Tek collectors worshippers from all over europe on the move already, to come to the collection and maybe touch a blue scope in passing  :popcorn:
Better put out a few parasol and a water cooler on the porch to prepare  :scared:

Not to mention the Metrix fans...   :-DD
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Agilent-AVO-BlackStar-Brymen-Chauvin Arnoux-Fluke-GenRad-Hameg-HP-Keithley-IsoTech-Mastech-Megger-Metrix-Micronta-Racal-RFL-Siglent-Solartron-Tektronix-Thurlby-Time Electronics-TTi-UniT
 
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116273 on: March 25, 2022, 09:57:10 am »

It's the older rural and rural-ish stuff, and low income neighbourhoods that causes headaches, and I suspect that Vince may fall into this hole. They don't want to go to the expense of the fibre rollouts that 'modern' broadband needs, when a fiber pull to a cabinet may only be serving a handful of dwellings - lots of capital expenditure for a handful of customers. So you get what Vince's situation sounds like where you're still on copper for 5km or more to get to a place where enough customer's circuits can be concentrated into that they deem it economic to pull fibre to.


Nto sure what you mean ? I did say that I have got fiber in the street, fiber cabinet located in my very street, exchange only 1km away, down my street + a few meters. See map below.

It's all very new, so as I said 90+ of the houses in my street are not connect-able to the fiber : the fiber has been routed (in the air, along the copper lines) from the Fiber cabinet to a little box on the pole in front of their house, but since the cabinet is at one end of the street, which is quite long as you can see, and I happen to be at the other end of the street... they obviously progress from the cabinet towards the other end of the street, one house after the other, so mine will probably connected in a few weeks or months I guess.

But yes your remark still holds true for most villages in France, where even ADSL is not an option since the signal get weak fast.

But the country is now at long last putting a real effort into installing fiber every where, I mean in every village, not just town centers... We are getting modern at last.

Then again as I said, I am in no hurry since I already I will get crap speeds during the evening peak hours anyway, so fiber or ADLS makes no difference. As long as the ISP don't build an infrastructure that can actually deliver the bandwidth they advertise to get you dreaming, and charge you for... then it will be forever hopeless regardless of the technology used.
Since ISP will never change because it would cost them money and witness that they can away with the current situation just fein.... there is absolutely zero reason why the situation will ever change/ improve.

So, I absolutely don't care about fiber really... nice tech in thery, but rendered pointless by the way the ISP implement it : profit first, quality of service very, very last.

So I guess I will only switch to it in 2 or 3 years when I have no choice because the land lines / copper lines are planned to be disconnected/obsoleted by that time, from what I gathered over here.


Now I know where you live! I'm gonna come and break into your house and upgrade all your TDS scopes!  :-DD  :-/O  :-BROKE
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline Andrew_Debbie

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #116274 on: March 25, 2022, 10:02:50 am »
I changed my mind and plan to  bid on one or two lots in the 7E auction.

If anyone here is  bidding on lots 126, 130, 131, 132, 133, 152, 154, 157, 160, 171 or 172   let me know.  I'll take them off my watch list.


I don't need any of them and my TE budget is small, so please please please tell me you are going to bid :)

 


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