Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

I make no apologies for encouraging the TEA lifestyle.   

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Pat said it best...

C'mon - we in this thread all know that the correct hierarchy of acquisition of things is WANT > Need.     -Pat

mnem
*toddles off in search of caffeine dietary supplement*

to me the situation: money>want>>need   is the worst case, because it quickly becomes want>need>money and the process can not be reversed.

Yebbut since you dodged the bullet on that bunk lot of micro/telescope objectives, even after you buy the baby-brother PZ-57s you'll still be $540 to the good... and you'll thank me every time you meet one of those Chinesium screws made of case-hardened cheese...

mnem
*Reductio ad TEAnonymous* 

[tggzzz]

I make no apologies for encouraging the TEA lifestyle. 

You're pushing an open door

[Cerebus]

Followed by an "aaarghhhh..." as he falls through it and and a "Gloink!" as he bounces off the floor the other side.

[med6753]

Trying to be a good boy, do somethging productive, and sit down for a while to order all the caps for my 2467 scope PSU.

It's not going well, at all.

To speed up the process, I ma trying to order all values from the same brand and series. For instance Panasonic 'FR' series, on Farnell (same problem on TME).

Values are either out of stock, or only one single cap left.... freaking CAPS, not CPUs !!! 

Can the world go round again please ?!   

Looks like I will have to search different brands and series for every of the XXX caps I need for this PSU, oh I am happy 

Just saw in the news that Shenzhen is now in "quarantine" / lock-down mode due to COVID again.... sure is not gonna help the situation !!! 

Just go with 105C name brand capacitors and save yourself a lot of aggravation.

[Vince]

Yeah but you do'nt know if they are low ESR or not, unless you check each and every datasheet... nor do I know which ones need to be low ESR and which don't...
Also 105°C is not a yes or no thing. Looks like they are all 105°C even the 85°C one. It's just that 85°C one will have a shorter life at 105°C, but it still has a 105°C rating.
A good 85°C cap can have as good a 105°C rating as a cheap low life 105°C listed one...

That's why the way I do, is open a few datasheet from different series and major brand, usually Panasonic Rubycon or Nichicon, if they are low ESr and long life (at least 5000 hours at 105°C), I write down the brand and series name, and then I just filter on that to save time to select all the numerous caps.

Will get there eventually... just that it will be tedious long and painful, and involve cursing. But I am committed... before Midnight, caps will be ordered... I already can't stand anymore to see the 2467 in bits spread all over the bench. I worked hard to get the lab and bench clean and tidy, I won't let this scope turn it into a messy place again, so soon. No, no.... 

[TERRA Operative]

So the 1MHz crystal in my SG503 Levelled sine wave generator is borked. (Did I mention it previously?)
Been playing with a 10MHz Vectron OCXO from ebay, running it through a 74HC390 to divide it down to 1MHz to match the original crystal.
So far, the output is looking good on the scope with it all hooked up on the breadboard and when I squirt the signal into the SG503, it seems happy enough with what I'm feeding it.

Next step is to continue the troubleshooting to see why I'm not getting any output....

[mnementh]

Welp... it's booty-fabbed in there. Jeebus it's loud right up on the desktop. 

Now to see if eliminating the connector altogether resolves the issue...

mnem
 

[Cubdriver]

Yeah but you do'nt know if they are low ESR or not, unless you check each and every datasheet... nor do I know which ones need to be low ESR and which don't...
Also 105°C is not a yes or no thing. Looks like they are all 105°C even the 85°C one. It's just that 85°C one will have a shorter life at 105°C, but it still has a 105°C rating.
A good 85°C cap can have as good a 105°C rating as a cheap low life 105°C listed one...

That's why the way I do, is open a few datasheet from different series and major brand, usually Panasonic Rubycon or Nichicon, if they are low ESr and long life (at least 5000 hours at 105°C), I write down the brand and series name, and then I just filter on that to save time to select all the numerous caps.

Will get there eventually... just that it will be tedious long and painful, and involve cursing. But I am should be committed... before Midnight, caps will be ordered... I already can't stand anymore to see the 2467 in bits spread all over the bench. I worked hard to get the lab and bench clean and tidy, I won't let this scope turn it into a messy place again, so soon. No, no.... 

Fixed that for you.   

(Oh who am I kidding - most of us here probably should be...)

Good luck with your cap hunting - component sourcing can be incredibly aggravating and soul sucking at the best of times; add in the current supply chain issues and it's a total nightmare!

-Pat

[mnementh]

I make no apologies for encouraging the TEA lifestyle. 

You're pushing an open door

Followed by an "aaarghhhh..." as he falls through it and and a "Gloink!" as he bounces off the floor the other side.

Awww... isn't that sweet. Y'all took out the open 115th story window you usedta keep there, just for me.

mnem
"Why are you always pushing me out the door...?"
"Because pushing you out the window would involve cops and weeks of paperwork..."

[mnementh]

Yeah but you do'nt know if they are low ESR or not, unless you check each and every datasheet... nor do I know which ones need to be low ESR and which don't...
Also 105°C is not a yes or no thing. Looks like they are all 105°C even the 85°C one. It's just that 85°C one will have a shorter life at 105°C, but it still has a 105°C rating.
A good 85°C cap can have as good a 105°C rating as a cheap low life 105°C listed one...

That's why the way I do, is open a few datasheet from different series and major brand, usually Panasonic Rubycon or Nichicon, if they are low ESr and long life (at least 5000 hours at 105°C), I write down the brand and series name, and then I just filter on that to save time to select all the numerous caps.

Will get there eventually... just that it will be tedious long and painful, and involve cursing. But I am committed... before Midnight, caps will be ordered... I already can't stand anymore to see the 2467 in bits spread all over the bench. I worked hard to get the lab and bench clean and tidy, I won't let this scope turn it into a messy place again, so soon. No, no.... 

On DigiKey at least, once you've set up your parametric search filters for max height, lead spacing, hours at 105°C, voltage & value, etc... you can sort ascending by either ripple current or ESR at 120Hz (rectified line voltage) or 10Khz (SMPS) by application. Then you just pick a product that's in stock at a price you can live with and move on to the next voltage/value. It's not rocket surgery, but it is time consuming if you find you cannot just import the .xls BOM that med posted.

mnem

[dl6lr]

Good luck with your cap hunting - component sourcing can be incredibly aggravating and soul sucking at the best of times; add in the current supply chain issues and it's a total nightmare!

Weekend just shoved two more jobs to my queue: Phone PBX died and wifes ironing went dead. The latter is a thermonukefuse with 240°C, the former some bulging crapacitors. Well, after more than 20years uptime those have approx 200.000hours. Found to my astonishment: The bulging one was the best (reasonable ESR at abt. 0.15 Ohms and still half the capacity) whereas some smaller ones are not even detected by the ESR70. So they all have to leave. Upon collecting them in the cart, some items went to unavailable between monday and tuesday, so I had to review my order
Ordered at Digikey 2022-03-15 11:19 and shipped at 14:07. Expected delivery tomorrow.
Order from "local" Reichelt 2022-03-15 11:26 has not even been processed yet...

[Vince]

Yeah but you do'nt know if they are low ESR or not, unless you check each and every datasheet... nor do I know which ones need to be low ESR and which don't...
Also 105°C is not a yes or no thing. Looks like they are all 105°C even the 85°C one. It's just that 85°C one will have a shorter life at 105°C, but it still has a 105°C rating.
A good 85°C cap can have as good a 105°C rating as a cheap low life 105°C listed one...

That's why the way I do, is open a few datasheet from different series and major brand, usually Panasonic Rubycon or Nichicon, if they are low ESr and long life (at least 5000 hours at 105°C), I write down the brand and series name, and then I just filter on that to save time to select all the numerous caps.

Will get there eventually... just that it will be tedious long and painful, and involve cursing. But I am committed... before Midnight, caps will be ordered... I already can't stand anymore to see the 2467 in bits spread all over the bench. I worked hard to get the lab and bench clean and tidy, I won't let this scope turn it into a messy place again, so soon. No, no.... 

On DigiKey at least, once you've set up your parametric search filters for max height, lead spacing, hours at 105°C, voltage & value, etc... you can sort ascending by either ripple current or ESR at 120Hz (rectified line voltage) or 10Khz (SMPS) by application. Then you just pick a product that's in stock at a price you can live with and move on to the next voltage/value. It's not rocket surgery, but it is time consuming if you find you cannot just import the .xls BOM that med posted.

mnem

Yes every vendor/website has its own search engine, with their advantages and drawbacks. As discussed recently no Mouser/Digikey here for local orders. So Farnell it is for me most of the time, and I don't like their search engine, and it's fucking slow, so every time I want to tick or untick an option, it takes time.

TME I like better for caps because they have devoted a category to just low ESR caps so it narrows it down for you. But, TME is expensive, as is RS,  compared to Farnell, which itself is expensive compared to US vendors so... for me here in Frog land, Farnell is still the best compromise so it's always the one I try first.
That said I ordered some caps from Reichelt last summer for my Tek 575. My first order from them as I only recently learned about their existence, and I must say I was surprised that, at least for electrolytic caps, they did have quite a bit of choice, decent brands and prices much lower than I would have guessed. So might try there as well.

Whatever happens, caps will be ordered before midnight, it's just how I have decided it's gonna be...

[Vince]

Wow, I am starting my shopping with the 100uF 25V and 35V caps. Both voltages appear kinda obsolete, zero choice. Next voltage with good choice is 50V. OK so let's got for 50V, voltage derating only help increase their life expectancy after all, and will consolidate the BOM a bit... but...sorting by price, the cheapest decent brand with decent life expectancy at 105°C is... a Vishay a 1.10 Euro !!!

Over ONE EURO for a tiny 100uF 50V cap ?!! 

At that rate, BOM will cost me 100 bucks by the time I am done with the shopping !

Papa Smurf 20 buck BOM is I thought day dreaming for me here.

Only hope to not lose my house when I validate the order is... to compromise an buy this " Würth Electronics " stuff. I though they made German tools not electronic components... I don't know who they rebrand.. is it any good, any feedback on Würth caps or components ?? 

They do have a long life 105°C one and it's literally half the price of the Vishay one so... 

... but their datasheet sucks, not much info in there... they don't even mention ESR... you just don't know what you get... so a bit skeptical 
Not sure I want to spend the money and then have to replace them again and pay twice and dismantle the PSU twice 

[Cubdriver]

Good luck with your cap hunting - component sourcing can be incredibly aggravating and soul sucking at the best of times; add in the current supply chain issues and it's a total nightmare!

Weekend just shoved two more jobs to my queue: Phone PBX died and wifes ironing went dead. The latter is a thermonukefuse with 240°C, the former some bulging crapacitors. Well, after more than 20years uptime those have approx 200.000hours. Found to my astonishment: The bulging one was the best (reasonable ESR at abt. 0.15 Ohms and still half the capacity) whereas some smaller ones are not even detected by the ESR70. So they all have to leave. Upon collecting them in the cart, some items went to unavailable between monday and tuesday, so I had to review my order
Ordered at Digikey 2022-03-15 11:19 and shipped at 14:07. Expected delivery tomorrow.
Order from "local" Reichelt 2022-03-15 11:26 has not even been processed yet...

I got burned last year at work with stuff going out of stock while the higher-ups hemmed and hawed over whether we would order and kit the parts or if they'd have the board house source and supply them. I had everything ready to go while they cogitated on this, and then when they decided that we'd get the parts the FPGA was just GONE.  Wound up getting the few we needed from one of those sketchy resellers for about 4x the cost and 8x the lead time (not to mention a few hours of looking for them) after all was said and done, but that one still bothers me.  Shit or get off the pot, dammit!   

I hope this crazy parts situation stabilizes soon, but the reality I see says don't hold your breath - my money's on it getting much worse before getting any better.
 

-Pat

[mnementh]

Awww, doody bombs. Frustion360 doesn't support my old MacPro since... well, before I got it. 

Guess I'll just have to glom up a spare disk and install Winblows on it... 

mnem
 

[AVGresponding]

Noun
enabler (plural enablers)

One who or that which helps something to happen.
One who encourages a bad habit in another (typically drug addiction) by their behaviour.
One who gives someone else the power to behave in a certain way.



This seems a cheap way to give yourself a hernia: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393984818766





Will it power up with a battery pack attached? Probably, but I don't intend to find out. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353958053519





I do wonder how why so many of his items are missing a battery cover whilst otherwise being in good order: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353956995473





Another old scopemeter for people to have a bidding frenzy over: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/U9cAAOSwac1iMRIe/s-l1600.jpg





Analog stuff:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165379017335


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334361935143


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165379226162




No idea if it's genuine: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194916990029





More hilarious pricing from Radwells: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393987809817





This seller has a couple of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125201895442

[mansaxel]

I live on an island in lake Mälaren, 3rd largest lake in Sweden

Beauty! I hope you have a water closed loop heat pump in that lake.

We're on Sweden's second largest island-in-lake, 82 km² size, and some 700 meters from the lake, on a small rocky hill, so no loop in the lake.

We've got a loop 150 metres straight down, OTOH. Geothermal is really nice. Clean (providing the electrick power is), efficient, low maintenance. 

I know some sailing boats, who winter in the ice, have had such solutions; they pick up the 4°C bottom water and run it through a heatpump heating the inner of the boat, and keeping a few cm ice-free adjacent to the hull.

[mansaxel]

Wow, I am starting my shopping with the 100uF 25V and 35V caps. Both voltages appear kinda obsolete, zero choice. Next voltage with good choice is 50V. OK so let's got for 50V, voltage derating only help increase their life expectancy after all, and will consolidate the BOM a bit... but...sorting by price, the cheapest decent brand with decent life expectancy at 105°C is... a Vishay a 1.10 Euro !!!

Over ONE EURO for a tiny 100uF 50V cap ?!! 

Mouser's got Würth 860020573008, 35V 100µF  at 12,7 Eurocents in ones; if you buy 50 it drops to 10,7c.

If you explicitly need 105°, Vishay MAL214250101E3 will set you back 39,1 Eurocents; volume discount 27,4c a piece for 10.

I'm in the Union, you're in the Union, it's the same trade agreement with USA. I fail to see how you can not find how to buy from Mouser without paying customs and shipping on top.

[m k]

Vref : end of experiment, need to reclaim the bench space, life goes on...

Been running for 34 Hours now. The DMM still won't budge a iota. Still stuck on 2.5015 V. Not one single digit of change in 34 Hours... ie. less than 100uV.

The chances that both the DMM an Vref drifted in the same direction, by exactly the same amount, at exactly the same time / rate, over the course of 34 hours ... is of course technically possible... just not very likely...

So until I can afford a better meter to recheck this Ref, I will declare both my DMM and Vref quite good indeed.

Plenty good enough to check a 9V battery or power rails when fixing stuff !   

My test lasted around 20h.
HP 34401A and Fluke 8505A agreed that 2,5V of Vref drifted a bit over 10uV.
Though linearity didn't match and then Fluke started dropping digits so the test was ended.

[Vince]

Wow, I am starting my shopping with the 100uF 25V and 35V caps. Both voltages appear kinda obsolete, zero choice. Next voltage with good choice is 50V. OK so let's got for 50V, voltage derating only help increase their life expectancy after all, and will consolidate the BOM a bit... but...sorting by price, the cheapest decent brand with decent life expectancy at 105°C is... a Vishay a 1.10 Euro !!!

Over ONE EURO for a tiny 100uF 50V cap ?!! 

Mouser's got Würth 860020573008, 35V 100µF  at 12,7 Eurocents in ones; if you buy 50 it drops to 10,7c.

If you explicitly need 105°, Vishay MAL214250101E3 will set you back 39,1 Eurocents; volume discount 27,4c a piece for 10.

I'm in the Union, you're in the Union, it's the same trade agreement with USA. I fail to see how you can not find how to buy from Mouser without paying customs and shipping on top.

I don't understand, we have already jsut discussed this ? 

Digikey / Mouser are not in the EU, so you need to import stuff, it's simple...

All they can do is make it easier for the customer, by paying all the taxes and doing the paperwork, on behalf of the customer... that's all... but that's already a big step forward I admit... so happy with that.

Their "free" shipping and taxes above 60 Euro orders is very interesting to say the least, but I don't have 60 Euro to spend.

For orders beow 60 Euros they charge 20 Euros for shipping and taxes, to export it here. It's excellent value I admit, but still 20 Euros to order a few caps does not make sense..... in a normal world.

But for 2 years now, we have not been living in a normal world. And with the Ukraine shit going on now, it's clear we are not going to live in a normal world for the foreseeable future.

I have just spent time on Farnell, TME, and Reichelt web sites. None of them have all the caps I need, not even close. But, because they all have their own local stock, I could probably gather all my caps if I ordered spread my BOM over these 3 suppliers, or maybe 4 with RS. 3 or 4 shipping charges, coupled with very epxensive prices copared to US vendors.... make for a very unsual situation where importing from Mouser or DK might actually MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE !!    Their 20 Euros flat fee for shipping and taxes coupled with their much lower prices, and greater inventory, make it a possibilty that ordering from them will not only be more convenient (getting everything from one place...), as well as cheaper.

This is a completely backwards world, we are living in a complete shit show my friends ! 

So I will check Mouser to see if they have every thing I need in stock, and what the total cost would be. If they don't have everything, then I would check DK.

If even that fails, backup plan is to reduce my ambitions. I am not going to waste scarce money replacing lots of caps with substandard items. So either I give up on recapping the PSU, or I pull all the caps one by one to test them and replace only those that are really fishy. Probably only a few of them are actually bad to the point of causing the scopes's symptomes. Much less caps to replace means much greater chance of finding what I need locally as well as spend much less money.
So I would end up only replacing the 5 RIFA caps, and the few electrolytic caps that actually, factually, bad or very tired. Finesse rather than brute force.

So let's check Mickey Mouse and DK... stay tuned, crossing fingers...

[factory]

Wow, I am starting my shopping with the 100uF 25V and 35V caps. Both voltages appear kinda obsolete, zero choice. Next voltage with good choice is 50V. OK so let's got for 50V, voltage derating only help increase their life expectancy after all, and will consolidate the BOM a bit... but...sorting by price, the cheapest decent brand with decent life expectancy at 105°C is... a Vishay a 1.10 Euro !!!

Over ONE EURO for a tiny 100uF 50V cap ?!! 

Just looked at the two choices of replacement for the 100uF 25V (I used 35V) I bought a few years ago (2019), the first Nichicon UPX1V101MPD (100uF 35V) is end of life (Mouser have very few left) and the other Panasonic EEUTA1V101 is no longer made or available, bloody useless. 

Not that it's any use but here is the confusing mess I created while searching for replacements, for the Tek 2445x 2465x PSU caps from RS & Farnell, I imagine many more are end of life, or no longer made now.

P.S. we have bought 125°C Wurth caps for work, not heard of any going bad yet, but probably need to wait a few more years yet, think they were made in China.

David

[Specmaster]

DISQUALIFIED ! 

The Fluke 87 is hardly a cheap bare bone meter like the 10/11/12 are ! 
the 87 s a very nice meter, good accuracy, high count/resolution, good features, and expensive.

I would love to add one to my collection (have 4 old Fluke DMMs in all), but here at least, the Fluke brand markup is too much. They aren't good enough value for money. That's why I prefer buying Metrix MX 53/54/56, way better value for money overall.

I can't justify spending 90 euros on an old Fluke 73 say, or 75 ot 77 even, when the same money can get me a MX54/C for example. It just does not compute at all... 
So the few Flukes I do have, are only with me because I was lucky enough to find them at price point that makes sense.
If I can find a nice 87V for a price I like, I would buy it. Well, not now of course, no money for TE atm....

Of the 10 Fluke DMM's in my stash the 87 is the only one I bought new in 1997. Yes, it wasn't cheap.

I've never regretted the money spent on FLUKE. EVER. I got my 87 when I was working for Philips while working my way through my first degree, before they were even available for sale. I paid for it out of 6 paychecks, and it was my go-to meter for 30 years. IMHO, that is unbeatable ROI.

mnem
There's a reason this emoji looks like a FLUKE 87. 

I also love my Flukes, that being said, if I was buying a new meter, it wouldn't be a Fluke, it would be another Brymen, the second only new DMM I have brought in my life.

[Specmaster]

Noun
enabler (plural enablers)

One who or that which helps something to happen.
One who encourages a bad habit in another (typically drug addiction) by their behaviour.
One who gives someone else the power to behave in a certain way.



This seems a cheap way to give yourself a hernia: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393984818766





Will it power up with a battery pack attached? Probably, but I don't intend to find out. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353958053519





I do wonder how why so many of his items are missing a battery cover whilst otherwise being in good order: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353956995473





Another old scopemeter for people to have a bidding frenzy over: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/U9cAAOSwac1iMRIe/s-l1600.jpg





Analog stuff:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165379017335


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334361935143


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165379226162




No idea if it's genuine: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194916990029





More hilarious pricing from Radwells: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393987809817





This seller has a couple of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125201895442

I already have that RS Pro DMM and the Selectest analogue meter in my sights, as long as the price stays reasonable, they are coming home with me 

[mansaxel]

I imagine many more are end of life, or no longer made now.

This is so for a lot of things. And I guess that chipageddon has made retiring legacy series easier..  Pity that it is a losing proposition, mostly, to buy NOS capacitors.

I went BOM'ing for the 10MHz LC filter Cerebus suggested upthread and 750nH is not readily available in through-hole, period. Lots of µrata SMD available for next to nothing, of course.  I assume I'll have to churn through a few more of those SMD exercise boards, bite the bullet, and actually teach myself SMD.