Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[duckduck]

Mouser operate in Europe https://eu.mouser.com/aboutus/
You might not get the same price as the USA though.....

But you do get free shipping from Mouser in the EU over a certain amount. Not the case here in USA. No free shipping regardless of amount.

This is my annual reminder that Digikey does do free shipping in the USA and Canada when you pay by check or money order:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/digi-key-has-changed-and-it-is-not-very-good/msg3273588/#msg3273588

Probably not super useful if you are buying a big BOM, but if you only need a few parts and you are not in a big hurry, it's killer.

[Vince]

Parquet

Thanks Dwagon for your kind comment. I am not used to that, gimme time to process it ! 
It looks much better in 3D in the flesh with sun light caressing it.

That machine ? No not the rental agency's idea... it's the parquet manufacturer that said I should use that. Yes usually it's used to maintain/clean workshop floors, and there is detergent reservoir mounted on the "yoke"... but this machine happened not to have a reservoir. The white pad is the correct one, it's colour coded, white if for buffing a parquet after oiling it. It's even written on the box.
You can also mount abrasive pads to restore old/ancient parquet, before oiling it again.

I have not returned the machine, guy at the counter asked me if it all went alright, I said FUCK NO THIS MACHINE IS UNCONTROLLABLE !!!   
To which he replied : "Yeah, it does take some practice to master it... ".

Cerebus yes you can do the win dance... thanks for the "user manual" on oiling... looks like indeed my problem is that the parquet was brand new and needed a lot more than just "a quick extra protection layer to reinforce it " as I understood it to be... Bloody oak was extremely thirsty.

I just hope that after 24H or so, the surface of the parquet will not be sticky / gooey anymore :-/
If it does, I guess I will have to use my micro fiber broom again, this time to spread 100% thinner to remove the stickiness and make it smooth to the touch.
Luckily I am in no hurry, been in this cluster fuck of a house for 2 years and one months now, so a few more days or weeks to get the parquet just right does not really bother me at all...

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

[Zucca]

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

Do you have the 3 phases 380VAC available in your house? 

[SeanB]

Those AFM buffers do tend to want to move you around, but with a little bit of practise you can have them properly operating, and swinging in sweeps with barely a finger on the handles. But yes learning how to use them, and if the pad is sticking, it can and will spin you around. Rented one for a week to clean office floors, discovered that they were not actually brown, but cream, after using 100l of floor stripper on them. Did go through a dozen of the black stripping pads, and a few of the red buffing ones, but the floors came up nice again, after having 30 years of polish removed.

For the wooden floors, the sticky will go as soon as the oil polymerises, which is helped by heat, and a lot of buffing will help as well, though time is the more important factor, along with the heat, to promote the cross linking of the linseed oil in there. A second coat will help, and just buffing every day will strip the sticky layer off fast, though you will go through a lot of the buffing disks, even though you can flip them over and use both sides. Keep that centre pop out of the disks for the kitchen and for the workshop, they are pretty good at cleaning PCB and panels, and I have used spare clean disks as a good source of scouring pads, the black stripping ones are great for pots and pans, and the red for plates.

[Robert763]

Parquet

Thanks Dwagon for your kind comment. I am not used to that, gimme time to process it ! 
It looks much better in 3D in the flesh with sun light caressing it.

That machine ? No not the rental agency's idea... it's the parquet manufacturer that said I should use that. Yes usually it's used to maintain/clean workshop floors, and there is detergent reservoir mounted on the "yoke"... but this machine happened not to have a reservoir. The white pad is the correct one, it's colour coded, white if for buffing a parquet after oiling it. It's even written on the box.
You can also mount abrasive pads to restore old/ancient parquet, before oiling it again.

I have not returned the machine, guy at the counter asked me if it all went alright, I said FUCK NO THIS MACHINE IS UNCONTROLLABLE !!!   
To which he replied : "Yeah, it does take some practice to master it... ".

Cerebus yes you can do the win dance... thanks for the "user manual" on oiling... looks like indeed my problem is that the parquet was brand new and needed a lot more than just "a quick extra protection layer to reinforce it " as I understood it to be... Bloody oak was extremely thirsty.

I just hope that after 24H or so, the surface of the parquet will not be sticky / gooey anymore :-/
If it does, I guess I will have to use my micro fiber broom again, this time to spread 100% thinner to remove the stickiness and make it smooth to the touch.
Luckily I am in no hurry, been in this cluster fuck of a house for 2 years and one months now, so a few more days or weeks to get the parquet just right does not really bother me at all...

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

You do know that with those single disk machines you don't push or swing them? They need no effort at all when used properly. To go forward you gently tilt it to one side. To come back you tilt to the other side. To go sideways tilt forward, to go to other side tilt back. The direction of tilt / movment depends on the direction of rotation.
Its like precession in a gyro scope. You unbalance the friction and the force is appled at 90 degrees.   

Edit SeanB types faster, but I explained why :-)
 

[SeanB]

Yes me and Hopewell were doing the floors, and Hopewell rather fast did decide that he would be the pad washer, while I was doing the machine dance, as he did a few flights with the buffer moving him rather firmly into orbit. Suprising, seeing as he is built Zulu large, there is a reason Ninian and Lester, trademark holders of Jockey, makes underwear up to 16XL size, and over the shoulder boulder holders up to 48KK. They sell in large enough numbers, even if the underwear is the size of a small 2 person tent. Factory shop is just down the road, and they start at 20c US for the cosmetic rejects, though the overruns can go for $2, instead of the $10 in the shop.

[Vince]

Parquet

Thanks Dwagon for your kind comment. I am not used to that, gimme time to process it ! 
It looks much better in 3D in the flesh with sun light caressing it.

That machine ? No not the rental agency's idea... it's the parquet manufacturer that said I should use that. Yes usually it's used to maintain/clean workshop floors, and there is detergent reservoir mounted on the "yoke"... but this machine happened not to have a reservoir. The white pad is the correct one, it's colour coded, white if for buffing a parquet after oiling it. It's even written on the box.
You can also mount abrasive pads to restore old/ancient parquet, before oiling it again.

I have not returned the machine, guy at the counter asked me if it all went alright, I said FUCK NO THIS MACHINE IS UNCONTROLLABLE !!!   
To which he replied : "Yeah, it does take some practice to master it... ".

Cerebus yes you can do the win dance... thanks for the "user manual" on oiling... looks like indeed my problem is that the parquet was brand new and needed a lot more than just "a quick extra protection layer to reinforce it " as I understood it to be... Bloody oak was extremely thirsty.

I just hope that after 24H or so, the surface of the parquet will not be sticky / gooey anymore :-/
If it does, I guess I will have to use my micro fiber broom again, this time to spread 100% thinner to remove the stickiness and make it smooth to the touch.
Luckily I am in no hurry, been in this cluster fuck of a house for 2 years and one months now, so a few more days or weeks to get the parquet just right does not really bother me at all...

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

You do know that with those single disk machines you don't push or swing them? They need no effort at all when used properly. To go forward you gently tilt it to one side. To come back you tilt to the other side. To go sideways tilt forward, to go to other side tilt back. The direction of tilt / movment depends on the direction of rotation.
Its like precession in a gyro scope. You unbalance the friction and the force is appled at 90 degrees.   

Edit SeanB types faster, but I explained why :-)

Nope, as I said in my report... it's the first time I used this type of machine and was totally clueless on how to operate it, hence the frustration and despair...

I am glad it can be mastered, though I doubt I will ever have the opportunity to use one again, at least not at home here...
room is only 10m2, barely large enough to operate that kind of machine to begin with and... once the room will be filled with stuff, the machine won't make any sense at all as it just won't fit. Doing it by hand to go around/under furniture will be the only way anyway.

Well, hold on... maybe I could use it again if... I put parquet again when I tackle the attic floor. Need to build a floor first...that is.
However that will be 60m2 worth of parquet and it's so horribly expensive that I doubt I will ever be able to put parquet up there (especially as salaries get lower and lower here, and cost of life explodes, so I am getting poorer with every passing year, not richer...), unless I go for cheaper stuff but it's not my philosophy for this house. I want good stuff I can enjoy every day for many years. I don't know... we shall see how the attic construction project will turn out.. it's not gonna be before long so who knows what might happen by then.
Need to do the garage first, money-wise it will take me 2 years I reckon, all going well. Attic is next after that.

[Vince]

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

Do you have the 3 phases 380VAC available in your house? 

No, it's a brand new house I got built, so no 3 phase.  One of my neighbour right across the street does have 3 phase but because he is retired, his house is old. Many old house in the village had 3 phase.
I guess I could technically ask for 3 phase, don't see why I could not get it, but it's expensive to get connected to it, I hear from a friend who contemplated doing that to get an old 3 phase lathe... before he gave when he got a quote from a sparky ! 

Electricity is already too expensive for me here, and getting more expensive significantly every year. Getting 3 phase would only incite me to get powerful machines that would increase the bill even more, I just can't afford it. Plus, garage will be tiny so zero space for powerful/space hungry machinery any way. I sure would love some 3 phase beefy wood working machines, but it's never going to be sadly ! 

I need adjust my dreams so they can fit my budget and available space ! 

I have enough space to make a decentish lab in thie 10.6m2 bedroom, plus some space in the attic later for a bit more hobby related stuff like my old Lego Technic sets, a few vintage computers, a plotter to print fold out schematic, a sofa with a decent vintage stereo system for relaxing... something like that. In the garage, 60m2 total but a 25% will be for relocating the water heater (to free some room in the bathroom and make custom furniture for extra storage), washing /drying machine, food stock, Tek scope collection and random TE. Then 40% for a car and general purpose / mechanical workbench, shelving to store tools and supplies. The the remaining 40% for shelving again to store more stuff, and my wood working hobby that I am hoping to get more serious about : build a real wood worker bench, heavy duty one. A few stationary machines as well, the basic ones that you need to get anything done with wood, and that's about it, space all used up ! 

[tggzzz]

Herpes couriers are changing their name to Evri. Wonder why - not. https://www.chargedretail.co.uk/2022/03/11/hermes-uk-announces-full-rebrand-to-evri/

So, what will be the new slang name for them?

Nevri delivered.

mnem
 

Nevri it will be.

[Neomys Sapiens]

I shied from this order a bit because of the import duty, but in the end I will not get this set of dies cheaper than the US $293,93 which I paid. And I can't preach compliance with regard to crip tools while I an not able to fulfill it myself. So I got this set for the smaller MIL open frame crimp tool (M22520/10-01). (Aviparts on ebay, for those in the US it is a really good grab at $199.-)

[m k]

That's assuming the device is designed to turn the auto-off feature off, when the charger is plugged in. I don't know that.

Press it ON longer.

I'll take that back, it's not really possible.

Finally found mine and double click isn't it either.
The manual, the source from where that original idea came from, is also somewhere else.
Not really sure if there even was a manual, maybe it was something completely different.
Though, I'm still pretty sure there was a power on time something.

[med6753]

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

Do you have the 3 phases 380VAC available in your house? 

No, it's a brand new house I got built, so no 3 phase.  One of my neighbour right across the street does have 3 phase but because he is retired, his house is old. Many old house in the village had 3 phase.
I guess I could technically ask for 3 phase, don't see why I could not get it, but it's expensive to get connected to it, I hear from a friend who contemplated doing that to get an old 3 phase lathe... before he gave when he got a quote from a sparky ! 

Electricity is already too expensive for me here, and getting more expensive significantly every year. Getting 3 phase would only incite me to get powerful machines that would increase the bill even more, I just can't afford it. Plus, garage will be tiny so zero space for powerful/space hungry machinery any way. I sure would love some 3 phase beefy wood working machines, but it's never going to be sadly ! 

I need adjust my dreams so they can fit my budget and available space ! 

I have enough space to make a decentish lab in thie 10.6m2 bedroom, plus some space in the attic later for a bit more hobby related stuff like my old Lego Technic sets, a few vintage computers, a plotter to print fold out schematic, a sofa with a decent vintage stereo system for relaxing... something like that. In the garage, 60m2 total but a 25% will be for relocating the water heater (to free some room in the bathroom and make custom furniture for extra storage), washing /drying machine, food stock, Tek scope collection and random TE. Then 40% for a car and general purpose / mechanical workbench, shelving to store tools and supplies. The the remaining 40% for shelving again to store more stuff, and my wood working hobby that I am hoping to get more serious about : build a real wood worker bench, heavy duty one. A few stationary machines as well, the basic ones that you need to get anything done with wood, and that's about it, space all used up ! 

I have never seen, nor heard of, any typical private residence in the US having 3 phase power. And many residential (non commercial) areas don't even have 3 phase available. Single phase only. I suppose if you wanted 3 phase feed and it were available you could get it.  Probably at a ridiculous cost.

My road due to length of it does have overhead 3 phase. But that's for load balancing and the farms in the area. The side roads with private residences are single phase overhead feed.       

[mnementh]

Parquet

Thanks Dwagon for your kind comment. I am not used to that, gimme time to process it ! 
It looks much better in 3D in the flesh with sun light caressing it.

That machine ? No not the rental agency's idea... it's the parquet manufacturer that said I should use that. Yes usually it's used to maintain/clean workshop floors, and there is detergent reservoir mounted on the "yoke"... but this machine happened not to have a reservoir. The white pad is the correct one, it's colour coded, white if for buffing a parquet after oiling it. It's even written on the box.
You can also mount abrasive pads to restore old/ancient parquet, before oiling it again.

I have not returned the machine, guy at the counter asked me if it all went alright, I said FUCK NO THIS MACHINE IS UNCONTROLLABLE !!!   
To which he replied : "Yeah, it does take some practice to master it... ".

Cerebus yes you can do the win dance... thanks for the "user manual" on oiling... looks like indeed my problem is that the parquet was brand new and needed a lot more than just "a quick extra protection layer to reinforce it " as I understood it to be... Bloody oak was extremely thirsty.

I just hope that after 24H or so, the surface of the parquet will not be sticky / gooey anymore :-/
If it does, I guess I will have to use my micro fiber broom again, this time to spread 100% thinner to remove the stickiness and make it smooth to the touch.
Luckily I am in no hurry, been in this cluster fuck of a house for 2 years and one months now, so a few more days or weeks to get the parquet just right does not really bother me at all...

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

You can get used to it. While I do occasionally have a grump day, just like everybody else, for the most part I wouldn't bite a bisc... Okay, no... I will bite a biscuit; pretty much any biscuit that crosses my scaly widdle paws, cuz I'm a natural-born breaditarian. But really... I'm pretty easy-going if you bother to notice.

As for the floor polisher... having run one for more than a few weekends as a youth, I can tell you that Robert and SeanB's description of how you steer them is dead on.



But just like me trying to learn to fly my first biplane indoors in a gym... maybe you picked a wee bit too small a venue for your first takeoff with that bruiser.   Driving one of those is a lot more like flying than you may know. 


mnem
LaunchPad McQuack is my spirit guide.

[Cubdriver]

I shied from this order a bit because of the import duty, but in the end I will not get this set of dies cheaper than the US $293,93 which I paid. And I can't preach compliance with regard to crip tools while I an not able to fulfill it myself. So I got this set for the smaller MIL open frame crimp tool (M22520/10-01). (Aviparts on ebay, for those in the US it is a really good grab at $199.-)

Dammit!!  You just cost me $225!!     Seriously, thanks for the tip - I have one of those Daniels HX3 tools; it will be nice to increase it's repertoire for less than a small fortune.

-Pat

[mnementh]

Welp... after a dozen flawless sleep/resume cycles, I'm leaning towards the Apple PSU being at fault, not the Cinema Display. I want to go downstairs and attack the thing, but I'm having a hard time working up the Give A Fuck when I can buy a fanless Meanwell LED SMPS rated exactly the same 24V/6.5A as the original for $19 off Amazon...   

Was more relaxing for you to have the monitor back or to use your Metcal??

Using the MetCal today on the Apple SMPS was quite fun once I figured out how to get the thing apart... until I found that the last stage DC filter caps are a oddball combination of value/size, and the closest I can find reasonably conveniently available so far will literally cost me as much as that Meanwell PSU... then the fun went away pretty quick.

We'll see if DigiKrunk fixes my account sometime soon...  > 

I just decided to press the EASY button and ordered that MW PSU off Amazon. Now instead of a "fix someone else's administration fuckup before I can even start fixing what I want to fix" problem, it can be a simple 3DP problem. I think I quite prefer that.

mnem

[mansaxel]

Post-purchase in-transit anxiety:  Schenker has got the 5316B package, likely in a storefront (they usually have supermarkets et c as agents, you can hand in shipments, and go pick them up, which is the cheaper way compared to delivery to your door. Also no issues with unguarded packages, they require photo ID to hand out packages and so on.) and I guess, based on the address of the sender that it is literally on the other beach from here.  (I live on an island in lake Mälaren, 3rd largest lake in Sweden) They still "have no delivery prognosis".

  

5316B OXCO question: Will the waveform of a home-brew Option 004 (OXCO) matter? All the cheap ones are square, but IIRC the original Option 004 board has a sine oscillator.

Would a 3-stage RC-filter with say 33KΩ and 4p7F in each stage work to smooth things out? (the part no on the drawing is not correct, assume an used CTI  10MHz OXCO.) I'm sort of pondering the output impedance resistor; do we need one just in front of the RC net too?

[Cerebus]

I don't think you want to make your output source impedance around 100kΩ, not a great idea at all.

I don't know what the 5316B is expecting, either in terms of waveform or impedance, and I don't have service manual handy to figure it out. I would however suggest that you'd be better served by an LC filter rather than an RC. e.g.



Found a manual (from Electro Tanya). It's expecting 50Ω:

[Zucca]

Do you buy from a seller on Ebay who does not respond to your messages/questions?

Risky risky.....

Generally, no. I might make exceptions for cheap things (like asking a generalist, almost inevitably Chinese, seller that has electronics connectors, sexy underwear, kitchen gadgets and cuddly toys as stock to clarify a measurement and they clearly can't be bothered), but not for anything with a decent ticket price like TE.

eBay auction: #125188878134

I asked if the lens containers are full.
No answer.

Muppet alert.

I was the second bidder since I am a moron and I can not resist. 590 bucks saved.
The angel on the shoulder says "shit" and the devil on the other one says "thank God".

[Zucca]

I live on an island in lake Mälaren, 3rd largest lake in Sweden

Beauty! I hope you have a water closed loop heat pump in that lake.



My home in Italy is on the biggest lake in the country. Yes the above would be my wet dream. Anyway I am 500m from the shore line, so I have to go open loop with two wells.

[GreyWoolfe]

Welp... after a dozen flawless sleep/resume cycles, I'm leaning towards the Apple PSU being at fault, not the Cinema Display. I want to go downstairs and attack the thing, but I'm having a hard time working up the Give A Fuck when I can buy a fanless Meanwell LED SMPS rated exactly the same 24V/6.5A as the original for $19 off Amazon...   

Was more relaxing for you to have the monitor back or to use your Metcal??

Being an owner of a Metcal MX-500 with wand and tweezers, for me, though a very close call, it would be the monitor.  That's because I have a 43 inch LED TV connected to my main computer as a monitor.

[Specmaster]

The schematic for the time base and Horizontal amplifier are simple enough, and probably use off the shelf components given the specs of the scope (2MHz...).. so this scope will probably be working again by this evening !!!

If only that were true, it is 10MHz and it is a real pig to work on, so I think it will take a bit of time to get it up and running again.

[Zucca]

That's because I have a 43 inch LED TV connected to my main computer as a monitor.

Today I went on amazon to check the prices on a 3440 x 1440 curved beast. One day, but not now.

[Specmaster]

The Thandar SC110 arrived this morning, didn't look too bad, battery door is missing, and the battery carrier had 4 C cells in it, looking the worse for age but no corrosion, so that's a bonus. Took a punt on it and removed said batteries, all were well and truly flat, just 1.7v, all 4 connected in series  . Connected it up to my bench supply and switched on, there is a beam but no sweep, I can move the spot sideways and up/down, but movement to the right is restricted to half way. Vertical amp is working OK when connected to the scopes test point and the beam is reasonably bright, so that's a relief, always a bit disconcerting when buying something that is not shown powered up.

So it's now time to get the manual out and dissect this puppy and look for signs of problems on the inside. Photos and more to follow in due course.

   

Great! Now you need the whole set! 

BAMA has the SM, but I found a better copy here with actually legible schizzmatics:

https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/Other%20Inventions/Other%20Electronics%20Products/Thandar%20SC110A%20Oscilloscope%20Service.pdf   

It's too big to post here for posterity, but I did observe due diligence and eMailed Ed a copy so he can update BAMA.

Interesting... it appears Sinclair's MicroVision TV uses the same plate-deflection CRT:

http://lushprojects.com/blog/2015/07/thandar-sc110a/

mnem

Thanks for the input, you found the same things I did. There is not a lot of info on the web about this beast and the PCB's are a pig to extract and I don't think will impossible to power it up out of its case because of the way it is constructed internally with daughter boards plugged in all over the place with random flying leads everywhere that need to be unsoldered 

[mnementh]

Welp... after a dozen flawless sleep/resume cycles, I'm leaning towards the Apple PSU being at fault, not the Cinema Display. I want to go downstairs and attack the thing, but I'm having a hard time working up the Give A Fuck when I can buy a fanless Meanwell LED SMPS rated exactly the same 24V/6.5A as the original for $19 off Amazon...   

Was more relaxing for you to have the monitor back or to use your Metcal??

Being an owner of a Metcal MX-500 with wand and tweezers, for me, though a very close call, it would be the monitor.  That's because I have a 43 inch LED TV connected to my main computer as a monitor.

Bastard... Now I have a dozen assorted tips and the tweezers in my eBay search again... 

Today I went on amazon to check the prices on a 3440 x 1440 curved beast. One day, but not now.

LOL... Right now I have a 40inch 4K TV that will probably be "extra" as where it is will probably need the larger 65 inch TV, even tho only 1080P.

I'm seriously considering swapping that 4K TV out for the two 24 inch monitors on my old gaming rig so they can go elsewhere. 

mnem
 

[0culus]

Anyway, little by little, this house is starting to look more and more like a house, and less and less like a construction site or dump yard... getting there.

Do you have the 3 phases 380VAC available in your house? 

No, it's a brand new house I got built, so no 3 phase.  One of my neighbour right across the street does have 3 phase but because he is retired, his house is old. Many old house in the village had 3 phase.
I guess I could technically ask for 3 phase, don't see why I could not get it, but it's expensive to get connected to it, I hear from a friend who contemplated doing that to get an old 3 phase lathe... before he gave when he got a quote from a sparky ! 

Electricity is already too expensive for me here, and getting more expensive significantly every year. Getting 3 phase would only incite me to get powerful machines that would increase the bill even more, I just can't afford it. Plus, garage will be tiny so zero space for powerful/space hungry machinery any way. I sure would love some 3 phase beefy wood working machines, but it's never going to be sadly ! 

I need adjust my dreams so they can fit my budget and available space ! 

I have enough space to make a decentish lab in thie 10.6m2 bedroom, plus some space in the attic later for a bit more hobby related stuff like my old Lego Technic sets, a few vintage computers, a plotter to print fold out schematic, a sofa with a decent vintage stereo system for relaxing... something like that. In the garage, 60m2 total but a 25% will be for relocating the water heater (to free some room in the bathroom and make custom furniture for extra storage), washing /drying machine, food stock, Tek scope collection and random TE. Then 40% for a car and general purpose / mechanical workbench, shelving to store tools and supplies. The the remaining 40% for shelving again to store more stuff, and my wood working hobby that I am hoping to get more serious about : build a real wood worker bench, heavy duty one. A few stationary machines as well, the basic ones that you need to get anything done with wood, and that's about it, space all used up ! 

I have never seen, nor heard of, any typical private residence in the US having 3 phase power. And many residential (non commercial) areas don't even have 3 phase available. Single phase only. I suppose if you wanted 3 phase feed and it were available you could get it.  Probably at a ridiculous cost.

My road due to length of it does have overhead 3 phase. But that's for load balancing and the farms in the area. The side roads with private residences are single phase overhead feed.     

You can get it installed, but you're going to pay for sure. I know some farmers who had to get it installed to run a seed cleaning machine. $$