Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Saskia]

found storm damage on my garden shack ... nails holding down the tiles on the roof have been pulled out, the protective foils have lifted and curled up and the wood that makes up the roof has lifted and started to pull the nails out.

Eff.

Call to the insurance, they want photos and a quote ... now I need to find a craftsman that can actually repair this.

Also the door to the shack needs teardown and replacement.

Plus, I need to tackle the flooring on 1st floor.
put in some vapor barrier plus some hardwood flooring.

So I went out to get a table saw (Bosch 635-216) and a miter saw (well, who would have guessed, a Festool KS 60, pickup in about 10 days ...)

There's always work to do it seems.

[med6753]

R102.1 - really?

Seems to me like they had problems with the current draw - V23 and V24 are parallel'd up series regulators. At one (late) point they realized they'd need a third one...
Solution? R201.1 to the rescue at the 11th hour (I imagine sheet metal, transformers, schematic, etc. are finished already) to pass some current to where it's needed, but not through V23 / V24.
I wonder if there is an additional circuit they had to add that pushed the allowable current over the limit,
or if it was a "purely thermal" problem (maybe like: tubes got more cooling on the bench prototype than in the actual case).
That's all mostly in my mind of course and the real story might be quite different 
Edit: looking at Med's latest picture above, R102.1 does look 15% shoehorned in there, doesn't it?
Edit2: Thinking some more, I guess an additional pass tube would also need filament power, that might be reasonably blocked by "transformers already ordered".
But overheating could also be solved with a series resistor (and without making the regulator less regulaty, unlike the parallel resistor used here).
So I guess the most likely variant is they reached the current limit of V23&V24 (or got uncomfortably close)?

You might be right. Here is what the Type 105 looked like when it first went into production. Quite a bit different from my version. But I do wish it retained that design rather the later tall box like mine.

[Vince]

Vince....go here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg1658102/#msg1658102

Thanks, lots of pics and good info in there ! 

.. except it does not address the problem I posted about ! 
.. your post there make it sound like.. a non-event.
So I guess either you have tools I don't have, or you have long thin agile fingers that I don't possess for sure.
OK, so no dismantling necessary then according to you... just need to... take a deep breath and... try harder 

Dwagon what about your experience ??

As I recall simply pull the wires off the line filter with a pair of needle nose and the board should come out.

Nope it's the two wires that go to/from the voltage selection switch directly to the PSU board... can't remove them from the switch side because soldered and no access, so need to pull the terminal from the board... but....  you gave me the bit of confidence I needed I guess...  tried getting to these terminals with my bent nose pliers. Tigtht fit, but just about doable. Pliers are quite big, for general purpose work. A smaller/thinner/lighter duty pliers would give the extra agility required to make it easier... but it's done, phew ! 

Now it's out.. OR ALMOST ! 

I have something that your 2465 doesn't seem to have : that long black wire jn the pic below, it's connected to a corner of the chassis.. SOLDERED to it ! Couldn't they just use removable earth terminal like everyone else ?! Why freaking solder it ! 

Tired. That will be for tomorrow.. desolder that freaking wire, take the PUS apart, look at every cap in there to prepare a BOM, and order that...
Will test the two huge blue axial caps under that black plastic cover and like you probably leave them alone... will save me big bucks given their size, and don't want to ruin the original setup by putting a radial cap instead of the current axial ones.

So more action tomorrow...

[Cubdriver]

found storm damage on my garden shack ... nails holding down the tiles on the roof have been pulled out, the protective foils have lifted and curled up and the wood that makes up the roof has lifted and started to pull the nails out.

Eff.

Call to the insurance, they want photos and a quote ... now I need to find a craftsman that can actually repair this.

Also the door to the shack needs teardown and replacement.

Plus, I need to tackle the flooring on 1st floor.
put in some vapor barrier plus some hardwood flooring.

So I went out to get a table saw (Bosch 635-216) and a miter saw (well, who would have guessed, a Festool KS 60, pickup in about 10 days ...)

There's always work to do it seems.

Nice!  I'd never even seen the KS 60 - doesn't appear to be readily available on this side of the pond.  The Domino I ordered in January to beat the price bump finally arrived yesterday, so perhaps this spring/summer I'll finally build my kitchen cabinets.  Getting that track saw ten years ago was a bad idea, given what it's led to...

Hope the shed repairs go as painlessly as possible for you.

-Pat

[med6753]

I have something that your 2465 doesn't seem to have : that long black wire jn the pic below, it's connected to a corner of the chassis.. SOLDERED to it ! Couldn't they just use removable earth terminal like everyone else ?! Why freaking solder it ! 

Tired. That will be for tomorrow.. desolder that freaking wire, take the PUS apart, look at every cap in there to prepare a BOM, and order that...
Will test the two huge blue axial caps under that black plastic cover and like you probably leave them alone... will save me big bucks given their size, and don't want to ruin the original setup by putting a radial cap instead of the current axial ones.

So more action tomorrow...

That is odd. Neither of my 2465's had that black wire. 

Edit.....Also, here is the BOM for the PSU re-cap.

[mnementh]

IIRC, it's a bulkhead passthrough; ~DC15V for the muffin fan redesign.

mnem
 

[Cubdriver]

IIRC, it's a bulkhead passthrough; ~DC15V for the muffin fan redesign.

mnem
 

Yeah, I was thinking it looked like a feedthrough capacitor.  Vince, what's on the other side?

-Pat

[mnementh]

...Nope it's the two wires that go to/from the voltage selection switch directly to the PSU board... can't remove them from the switch side because soldered and no access, so need to pull the terminal from the board... but....  you gave me the bit of confidence I needed I guess...  tried getting to these terminals with my bent nose pliers. Tigtht fit, but just about doable. Pliers are quite big, for general purpose work. A smaller/thinner/lighter duty pliers would give the extra agility required to make it easier... but it's done, phew ! 

Now it's out.. OR ALMOST ! 

Looking at your pic and this spare PSU from the parts bin, I think I remember now... HHH Abuse FTW!!!

Everybody should have at least one pair of Huge Honkin' Hemostats... and TTTs (Teeny Tiny Tweezers) and everything in between. These aren't even my biggest; they're just the biggest I can lay paws on right now. 

mnem
 

[BU508A]

Speaking of clamps:



The scissor on the top left is a Belzer 2707 universal scissor. Very useful to cut through RF shielding braid.

The clamps are made by INOX or Aeskulap.

[mnementh]

found storm damage on my garden shack ... nails holding down the tiles on the roof have been pulled out, the protective foils have lifted and curled up and the wood that makes up the roof has lifted and started to pull the nails out.   Eff.   Call to the insurance, they want photos and a quote ... now I need to find a craftsman that can actually repair this.   Also the door to the shack needs teardown and replacement.

Plus, I need to tackle the flooring on 1st floor. put in some vapor barrier plus some hardwood flooring. So I went out to get a table saw (Bosch 635-216) and a miter saw (well, who would have guessed, a Festool KS 60, pickup in about 10 days ...)   There's always work to do it seems.

This is all you NEED...

mnem
*agitating-ily*

[dl6lr]

NASA ? Really ? The same NASA whose Engineers crashed a fancy expensive probe or rover on Mars because they can't freaking tell the difference between Metric and Imperial units ?! 

AFAIK the error was not directly within NASA, that dictates that only SI units have to be used, but Lockheed Martin as a contractor using imperial units with(out) conversion.

But of course every big company has some big issues. So a satellite (NOAA N-Prime) was severily damaged during mounting, as one crew "stole" the mounting bolts from the other crew. Guess where did this incident happen? Yes: At Lockheed Martin 
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/65776main_noaa_np_mishap.pdf

[mnementh]

Speaking of clamps:   

The scissor on the top left is a Belzer 2707 universal scissor. Very useful to cut through RF shielding braid. The clamps are made by INOX or Aeskulap.

Went to get my favorite Klein Telco WTFSS (Wey Too Fucking Sharp Scissors) from my just-reacquired networking bag and...  30 years I've had these, and now... rust. Just the faintest shadow on the working edge, and a few specks along the serrated edge... but still.

I have a weakness for cheap Chinesium gardening scissors; finger loops big enough for my huge ol' Shrek hands are rare elsewhere. When I find a model that actually works well I'll usually buy a dozen for the ol' reserve stash.

Any of these will easily remove a digit; the Chinesium ones are what I use for general work so I don't fuck up the Kleins and the Fiskars. 

mnem
 

[Cubdriver]

found storm damage on my garden shack ... nails holding down the tiles on the roof have been pulled out, the protective foils have lifted and curled up and the wood that makes up the roof has lifted and started to pull the nails out.   Eff.   Call to the insurance, they want photos and a quote ... now I need to find a craftsman that can actually repair this.   Also the door to the shack needs teardown and replacement.

Plus, I need to tackle the flooring on 1st floor. put in some vapor barrier plus some hardwood flooring. So I went out to get a table saw (Bosch 635-216) and a miter saw (well, who would have guessed, a Festool KS 60, pickup in about 10 days ...)   There's always work to do it seems.

This is all you NEED...

mnem
*agitating-ily*

C'mon - we in this thread all know that the correct hierarchy of acquisition of things is WANT > Need. 

-Pat

[Cerebus]

Speaking of clamps:



The scissor on the top left is a Belzer 2707 universal scissor. Very useful to cut through RF shielding braid.

The clamps are made by INOX or Aeskulap.

(I wish BD139 would get back, it's doubling my work filling in for him, and thinking dirty for two...)

Gratuitous picture of an *ahem* alternative style of clamps:

[Brumby]

The astute of you may have noticed a little distortion here:


It's from the TinySA signal.  Not exactly a clean sine wave.  There's also a bit of fuzziness which I don't doubt is the result of my "noise injection model" of interconnection.

I also apologise to the OCD members who may be uncomfortable with the figure not sitting symmetrically on the screen.  At that time of day, I was happy to get something that looked as good as it did.

[mnementh]

mnem
Looks good to me...

[Neomys Sapiens]

Speaking of clamps:



The scissor on the top left is a Belzer 2707 universal scissor. Very useful to cut through RF shielding braid.

The clamps are made by INOX or Aeskulap.

A rather puny collection and also severely lacking in reach, but sufficient to illustrate the idea. See also my post on the difference between Hemostats and Needle Holders somewhere on the Forum.

[cyclin_al]

NASA ? Really ? The same NASA whose Engineers crashed a fancy expensive probe or rover on Mars because they can't freaking tell the difference between Metric and Imperial units ?! 

Hey, at least they got as far as Mars in the first place. How long was it after launch that Ariane 5 (principal designer - "Centre national d'études spatiales") exploded? Oh yes, 37 seconds due to a software fault. It's not only NASA that has experience in turning lots of money into lots of burning fragments.

WHAT ?! Did I manage to trigger C !   

OK let's reply, I am in Dwagon mood right now ! 

At least the French didn't kill astronauts because they can't freaking figure out that the o-ring in challenger would shrink when cold, leak and badaboom !!

.. or kill more astronauts because they can't freaking be bothered to fix a heat shield on the Shuttle before re-entry : "yeah guys, it's gonna be fine, don't worry, we are NASA after all right ! 


But I hear you.... these tragedies could not possibly happen to us because well, we never had a shuttle to begin with 


But I don't care anyway, I am not into patriot BS at all, shit happens all the time to every body everywhere, it's just life ! 

I seem to recall that the o-ring company took an equal share of the fault.  The head office designers of the o-ring worked at a french (sorry Vince for saying that) canadian office.
The o-ring manufacturing site was an english canadian factory.  I happen to personally know someone who worked there at that time. 
The company is no longer....

[TERRA Operative]

R102.1 - really?

Yep. 

https://imageshack.com/i/pmaGCXEBj

Haha, someone snuck that one in last minute before it was sent off for review... 

Vince....go here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg1658102/#msg1658102

Thanks, lots of pics and good info in there ! 

.. except it does not address the problem I posted about ! 
.. your post there make it sound like.. a non-event.
So I guess either you have tools I don't have, or you have long thin agile fingers that I don't possess for sure.
OK, so no dismantling necessary then according to you... just need to... take a deep breath and... try harder 

Dwagon what about your experience ??

I just swore a lot at my 2467 and 2467B with a set of long needle-nose pliers. It wasn't so fun.

I can't remember if I showed it, probably not as I was undoubtedly too pissed off for the camera..
youtube.com/watch?v=NjHbfbtNhyY

That black wire is normal for the 2467, it's just for the fan and yep, gotta desolder it (I think it may even be mentioned in the service manual somewhere? can't remember).

[mansaxel]

Went to get my favorite Klein Telco WTFSS (Wey Too Fucking Sharp Scissors) from my just-reacquired networking bag and...  30 years I've had these, and now... rust. Just the faintest shadow on the working edge, and a few specks along the serrated edge... but still.

The Telco scissors from US suppliers like Jonard and Klein are one of the few kinds of tools where I feel the US tool industry holds an edge (sic!) to European quality and usefulness.  There are a few other items, surprisingly often by Jonard, where they're unique in providing a good or even existing solution. 

For sundry things like wrenches, fixed or adjustable, socket sets, screwdrivers, and most basic pliers, US makers are still in the 70s (in a bad way, that is).  The likes of Bahco (before Crap-On^tm bought them to gut them and sell crap branded with the logo) and Facom (also sadly bought for its brand name by a company whose only useful product today is a breaking bar; i.e. Stanley), Knipex, Stahlwille, Elora, Gedore, Wera and Wiha laugh at the products from the US.  And the Japanese tools are no joke either, with Ko-ken and Vessel being two very good examples.

In other news: My geothermal pump had a guru meditation moment yesterday, and needed a controller reboot.

How's the text above, for keeping the flame going? 

[cyclin_al]

found storm damage on my garden shack ... nails holding down the tiles on the roof have been pulled out, the protective foils have lifted and curled up and the wood that makes up the roof has lifted and started to pull the nails out.   Eff.   Call to the insurance, they want photos and a quote ... now I need to find a craftsman that can actually repair this.   Also the door to the shack needs teardown and replacement.

Plus, I need to tackle the flooring on 1st floor. put in some vapor barrier plus some hardwood flooring. So I went out to get a table saw (Bosch 635-216) and a miter saw (well, who would have guessed, a Festool KS 60, pickup in about 10 days ...)   There's always work to do it seems.

This is all you NEED...

mnem
*agitating-ily*

C'mon - we in this thread all know that the correct hierarchy of acquisition of things is WANT > Need. 

-Pat

Nope, not at all.  You really do NEED a bigger capacity battery for that tool!

[Saskia]

I could also use my ritual sacrifice axe to split the floor boards, however Odin might frown on that.
Or detonating cord, however the collateral damage might be frowned upon.

What's wrong with using application specific high quality tools ?

[TERRA Operative]

Speaking of power cables, anyone got one of those Tek power cables that looks like an extension cable they want to sell? (Number 2 in the attached image).
I have a type 284 pulse gen that needs one and I can't find a rewirable plug that will fit without removing the collar around the connection on the back of the unit.

[med6753]

I have one. But I need it for my Tek stuff. Unfortunately that style is pretty much obsolete and as you found out the modern female receptacles are too large in diameter to fit into the recess. And apparently they are becoming as rare as hen's teeth too. 

[Cubdriver]

I could also use my ritual sacrifice axe to split the floor boards, however Odin might frown on that.
Or detonating cord, however the collateral damage might be frowned upon.

What's wrong with using application specific high quality tools ?

The only thing I can think of is that they make my credit card heat up to an alarming degree.   

Once that pain fades, it's really nice to have them on hand as they're normally a pleasure to use.

-Pat