Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[TERRA Operative]

As an electrician, those pictures cause me physical pain.

[med6753]

Shhhsssh. It's a sleeping forest troll, come to get away from all those noisy Norwegians.

I can't wait to see what kind of hell you're going to catch for calling a Swede a Norwegian. 

Well, it would hardly have managed to get away from noisy Norwegians by staying in Norway would it, stands to reason that's why it came to Sweden to get away from them. Do try and keep up old chap.

What you meant and how you wrote it left it open to interpretation. Please forgive me for even thinking that you didn't know the difference between Nordic cultures/nationalities. I know you are too worldly and intelligent to even make such a silly gaffe. So why did such a ridiculous thought even enter my uncivilized pea brain? Simple. I am surrounded here by ignorance and stupidity. Example. Many Americans are shocked to learn that Canadians are not Americans. Sad, but true. Ask the average American to identify Ukraine on a map and you'll quickly discover that someplace like Indonesia is the new Ukraine. I could go on but it's just too depressing.   

[m k]

Space, the final frontier.
<SNIP>

Build! I'm getting quotes on a 2-story garage/workshop/storage/home-office building, ~25' x ~45'. Dirty and heavy things on the ground floor. Clean and light-ish things upstairs. TE will be a first-class citizen.

I've partitioned the garage off already, with the partition having raised flooring (because I could!) and that's the electronics workshop, TE and computer room. Can't build outside current house/garage envelope. Our house is part of a project that built ~30 similar bungalows on a loop up on a hill, so no through traffic. Cleverly embedded in the existing forest and boulder terrain. Something like this is what the nature was around us, and it's largely been kept that way:



The houses are the nicest in the village, since they're actually designed by an architect as an ensemble instead of being a home-owning contractor (lots of contractors living out here) building his McMansion larger than the neighbours.  County has noticed this, and won't issue building permit for destroying the coherence. You're not even allowed to repaint outside a fairly narrow spectrum.  This is all the more flabbergasting because the rumour is that our county building board is insanely easy to bribe into allowing pretty much anything, including beachfront lots (the entire county is made up of 140 islands in Swedens 3rd largest lake, Mälaren) and other things that are extremely complicated to get a permit for in Sweden.

I like this. Makes for better standard of living, at the small cost of tasteless and stupid rich people not getting their whims fulfilled.

Edit: If I ever get rich, I won't fall into any nouveau riche traps, but instead just increase the quality and longevity of clever and gifted peoples contributions to society. Like buying and restoring TE.

Those rocks almost look like they were purposely arranged in a circle. You sure that's not the remains of some ancient settlement?

Ice-age did things.

[m k]

I found some candidates but they have transportation issues.
How can it be so difficult to go and get a box from a shop.

Telequipment Oscilloscope S54U
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373957719642

Aquilascope Oscilloscope
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353948234734

What is Aquilascope?

Not for me heavy,
Tektronix 7104 Oscilloscope
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165365385517

[mansaxel]

Something like this is what the nature was around us, and it's largely been kept that way:

Isn't everywhere in Sweden like that?

No, not the nice parts. These are the nice parts:

You're not even allowed to repaint outside a fairly narrow spectrum.

Isn't the only colour (other than concrete) in Sweden/Norway that rather attractive dark red colour? (Was that originally red lead?)

I suppose you mean Falu Rödfärg, which is pervasive. No. not lead. Iron oxide.

No, we have a bunch of other mandated or traditional colours in use in the country. Someone in our project actually tried Falu Rödfärg, and had to re-re-paint. Here, the required colours are around very dark brown.

I certainly prefer that colour to the riot of colours in my local city, which seems to be inspired by the colours in the children's program "Balamory", e.g.

It's a very british thing to paint brick. Not done here at all. Some whitewashing with chalk-based products might happen, though.

[tggzzz]

Not for me heavy,
Tektronix 7104 Oscilloscope
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165365385517

Not for you: MCP CRT
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4041811/?topicseen#msg4041811

Also has the 2467 auction ending today, also an MCP CRT

[tggzzz]

Something like this is what the nature was around us, and it's largely been kept that way:

Isn't everywhere in Sweden like that?

No, not the nice parts. These are the nice parts:

That's too like the Fens for my taste. I need trees and contours Doesn't have to be many contours, but more than five species of vegetation is desirable - hence taiga is disconcerting.

You're not even allowed to repaint outside a fairly narrow spectrum.

Isn't the only colour (other than concrete) in Sweden/Norway that rather attractive dark red colour? (Was that originally red lead?)

I suppose you mean Falu Rödfärg, which is pervasive. No. not lead. Iron oxide.

No, we have a bunch of other mandated or traditional colours in use in the country. Someone in our project actually tried Falu Rödfärg, and had to re-re-paint. Here, the required colours are around very dark brown.

That's the stuff

I certainly prefer that colour to the riot of colours in my local city, which seems to be inspired by the colours in the children's program "Balamory", e.g.

It's a very british thing to paint brick. Not done here at all. Some whitewashing with chalk-based products might happen, though.

Very few brick houses are painted here, and it is mostly associated with people with poor taste or insufficient money to do proper rainproofing.

Painting is normally over rendering, i.e cement/mortar. Rendering can be over brick or stone; the latter is likely in the Tobermory/Balamory picture.

[Specmaster]

I found some candidates but they have transportation issues.
How can it be so difficult to go and get a box from a shop.

Telequipment Oscilloscope S54U
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373957719642

Aquilascope Oscilloscope
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353948234734

What is Aquilascope?

Not for me heavy,
Tektronix 7104 Oscilloscope
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165365385517

You beat me to posting about the Tek 7104, it claims to be a 1GHz scope, is that right?

[m k]

https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/7104

But tggzzz beat us both.
I blame Vince's printer.

I'd like to have a curve tracer more than a scope.
Seems that self made it will be.

Generally my ebay is picky.
It is not showing the same item even that it should include very clearly.
Like when the item is in .de section it is not showing in general list of .com section.
But it is found from .com when its partial subject is included enough.

[Vince]

---snip---

As for the vertical alignment "problem" of the ***** tubes, had a first look at it and looks like the answer is simple : the mechanical design of the counter just does not permit to hold the boards firmly in place, never mind an accurate place...
Turns out the boards do NOT have a card edge connectors... no. They have proper board to board connectors. Connector is made of thick round pins.

Those blue connectors are very familiar, even though the make is different. We worked on lots of old BR equipment from the 70s & 80's that used those, but the connectors were made by Smiths & later Hypertac. Pretty sure we had extenders in that size, but probably long gone now, not that I could buy them if they are still there (still won't sell any redundant TE).

I looked in the parts list but they don't list these connectors sadly ! 
.. so short of getting some from work, if you could if just find some old databook or something to identify them, that would be a big help, I could try and Google for them and maybe with some luck find some for sale. I guess I could salvage a male/female pair from the donour counter, but I would rather try to keep it complete as much/ as long as possible, in case I get the silly idea one day of restoring it.

But for now, for parts it is... the more I look at it, the more I take it apart... the more it scrams " don't bother, I am done for, am too far gone... ".
Like, I looked at each and every Nixie board in detail last night..... it's a disaster.
The two fastest boards (50MHz and 10MHz) are intact and working at first glance (which is good because these two I are buggy in my good counter). The 2MHz board has two transistors replaced, but it looks clean and tidy, I don't mind. However the other 5 boards, the slow 300kHz ones.... oh my Goodness, they have all been butchered like hell. On each board, every single one of the 8 trannies has been pulled. Sometimes the original one was put back in place, sometimes a modern shiny looking transistor was put it, and sometimes an old / period tranny was used, but a different, much bigger package, hence of course a different part number. Parts list does say that all these trannies are supposed to be matched, BTW....
The solder job is what put the last nail in the coffin. It looks like a battle filed. Missing pads, lifter pads or tracks, and many trannies had missing solder joints. Sometimes the pad on the top side (it's a double sided board) was not connected to anything, so OK no big deal.. but sometimes there WAS a track going to that pad yet still now solder joint ! 
It's just... just horrifying. 

I swapped the plugin and tried the working one from my good counter... I can now get it to count but it shows now other problems... display only works in "latched/memory" mode, you can't see it counting anymore, should you want to. Also the gate opening time setting is half gone : only the lower half of the settings appear to work (then the lowest resolution settings of the counter), the upper half doesn't work at all, counter fails to count and just display s a solid all zeros.
One of the nixes also sometimes looks like it's "arcing" internally... there is a fuzzy blob of light between the '0' digit and the glass envelope..

This, and other little things... clearly the guy worked heavily on this thing, but massacred everything he touched.
It was sold for parts for a good reason it seems ! I bought it for parts to begin with, and looks like it's gonna be for parts, indeed... 


There are some good news though.

- 50MHz and 10MHz boards are intact as I said, and these are bad with a hard to diagnose fault, in my better counter. So it's good to know I can just swap these boards, at least short term, to get the counter going. Then might try to troubleshoot the later...
I would only at first try to trouble shoot the third faulty board, the slow 300kHz one, because its fault is solid, permanent, so easy to work on. Can just probe at will until I figure it out.

- Its for part status means I can allow myself to salvage connectors from tit ot make an extender card.... though as said above that would be a last resort, only if I can't identify and buy new connectors....

- Conformal coating / debugging : tried to pierce it with sharp probes... doesn't do it. My 'SMD' probes are to fragile. Then tried bigass Hirshmann insulation piercing, 4mm probes... the sharpest I had. Now these work but only if the board is laying flat on the bench and you apply so much force that it's ridiculous. Not going to be a viable option when the board I want to probe is vertical, loosely hanging in the air on an extender card.... So, I give up on probing though the coating.

HOWEVER... I noticed that the coating, which still has not hardened despite being 50+ years old, can easily be soften with gentle application of hot air for a for a few seconds only, then it can easily be scrapped off of the board with a sharp blade. So, knowing that... I though well what about a soldering iron... so I tried to wick a joint, and it worked just fine ! Just do as if there were no coating... takes only a few seconds for the coating to melt, then the iron tip gets to the solder underneath and the wick works just fine. You just need to push the melted coating residue away from the joint using the iron tip, and that's it. So... looks like I should be able to troubleshoot these boards easily then : just need to remove a tiny bit of the coating at the test points of interest, and that's all ! 

- While skimming the parts list trying to find the connectors, in vain, I spotted a 2N2222 tranny listed !! What ?? This late '60's counter (oldest page in the manual is dated October 1967), but it has a "modern" fancy SILICIUM tranny in it ?!    Thought these old counters were Germanium ! 

So, I checked the part numbers for the decade/ Nixie boards.... the 50MHz one uses a STE401 transistors, failed to find a datasheet for it. If you have it in some old paper catalogue, please share.
Then looked the 10MHz board, it uses a 2N3639. The 2MHz and 300kHz boards use a 2N3638. Looked them up, both a PNP SILICIUM not Germanium, hooray !!! 
Will make substitution much easier if need be !    Hell I just Googled them for vendors, looks like the 3638 which is the one used in 6 of the 8 boards as I said, is easily available, there are NOS out there !  3+ Euros a pops.. well I only need to change a few I guess, not 200 hundreds of them, so that's OK.
The faster 3639 is harder to find a twice the price, but there is some on Ebay it looks.

Cool..... so it looks like all the stars are aligned, I should be able to fix my boards ! 

P.S. If you find any-more of those Ferisol counters I'd be interested in one.

David

OK, noted ! 

You can also check the website as I do, two sets of eyes are better than one 

https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche?text=ferisol&shippable=1&sort=time

The link includes the search term.

"Ferisol" is specific enough of a name that 100% of the search results are relevant. There is no other "Ferisol". So you will not be spammed with irrelevant content, like one is when searching for " HP ", say ! 

If you find one there of course I will be your middle man 


I never check Ebay but if you do, maybe you will find one there, I don't know...

[Robert763]

I found some candidates but they have transportation issues.
How can it be so difficult to go and get a box from a shop.

<SNIP>

Unfortunatly it is not just getting a box and packing materials. Sending to the EU is now international with customs forms, extra costs etc etc.
I've had ebay charge an international fee, charge the seller VAT at 20% (dispite it being a used item) and then charge me seller fees on the VAT they charged!
I can't blame sellers for not wanting the extra hassle for less money.

[Robert763]

<SNIP>

I looked in the parts list but they don't list these connectors sadly ! 
.. so short of getting some from work, if you could if just find some old databook or something to identify them, that would be a big help, I could try and Google for them and maybe with some luck find some for sale. I guess I could salvage a male/female pair from the donour counter, but I would rather try to keep it complete as much/ as long as possible, in case I get the silly idea one day of restoring it.

<SNIP>

Those Hypertac connectors are VERY expensive. Very unlikey to find a cheap set.  They should have part numbers on the connector body though.

[Neper]

No, not the nice parts. These are the nice parts:

Looks like Le Plat Pays, somewhere between Ghent and Bruges.

Avec des cathédrales
Pour uniques montagnes...

[mansaxel]

No, not the nice parts. These are the nice parts:

Looks like Le Plat Pays, somewhere between Ghent and Bruges.

Avec des cathédrales
Pour uniques montagnes...

It's in Scania, about half-way between Malmö and Lund. I'm from Scania, but a bit further north, and on the west coast.

[mnementh]

Two of my best dogs were dobies, including my first dog as a toddler; grandmomma called us littermates.  If not inbred to death and trained to be psycho assholes, they are absolutely brilliant animals; also fiercely loyal and protective.

Doesn't that mean they were psycho assholes to everybody outside their family?

Not unless they were trained to be.

Grandmomma ran a AKC registered kennel and raised championship poodles (standard and miniature) and dobies. I literally grew up with them all around me from infancy. If they come from a good, not-inbred bloodline, dobies are wicked smart. This means they are very trainable... You can teach them to do almost anything, and they are very alert; they pay attention to their people and their surroundings.

Alas, like children, this also means that they learn what they live. If the owner is a asshole and only sees them as a terror object or a indentured soldier, that is what they become. If they are treated with kindness and affection, they are sweet, affectionate and very allergy-friendly pups, even docile.

But in this case, bloodline does mean everything; really inbred dobie lines tend to be much stupider and more aggressive. Grandmomma used to joke that "Rottweilers came from dobies that were so inbred, they regressed back to neanderthal dogs". Knowing some of the heinous practices that the Rottie breeders association demanded (essentially, all pups which didn't "conform" were to be destroyed or you lost your registration and were subject to fines, and there were a LOT of regressives in the genepool), there might have been a small grain of truth in that.  She was approached by important muckity-mucks from their breeder's association several times; she always told them to piss off.

mnem
weuf.

[med6753]

Batten down the hatches and lower the sails.  High wind warning for tonight and they aren't kidding. It is blowing like hell out there. Already scanner is going nuts with trees/wires down. Hopefully I won't lose power. 

Wake up this morning and one of my AC powered clocks is in flash mode but others are OK. So apparently there was at least one quick duration power dip but no total loss. Others are not so lucky. Extensive power outages. The wind has died down to a breeze so I don't expect any additional issues. 

[mnementh]

...
mnem
and when you get tired of stubbing your toe on it, I'll gladly come lift it off your foot for you... free of charge, of course...   

You're like Jesus.

       https://joshuawright.net/slack-wyrm-038.html

mnem
What...? too soon...?

[mnementh]

Guess if I come visit, you'd best keep me on the ground floor. 

In mountainous areas it was (and still is in some places) traditional to overwinter the cattle on the ground floor, with the heat they create rising to the living quarters on the upper floors.

mnem
i tooted.

[mnementh]

Shhhsssh. It's a sleeping forest troll, come to get away from all those noisy Norwegians.

I can't wait to see what kind of hell you're going to catch for calling a Swede a Norwegian. 

Well, it would hardly have managed to get away from noisy Norwegians by staying in Norway would it, stands to reason that's why it came to Sweden to get away from them. Do try and keep up old chap.

What you meant and how you wrote it left it open to interpretation. Please forgive me for even thinking that you didn't know the difference between Nordic cultures/nationalities. I know you are too worldly and intelligent to even make such a silly gaffe. So why did such a ridiculous thought even enter my uncivilized pea brain? Simple. I am surrounded here by ignorance and stupidity. Example. Many Americans are shocked to learn that Canadians are not Americans. Sad, but true. Ask the average American to identify Ukraine on a map and you'll quickly discover that someplace like Indonesia is the new Ukraine. I could go on but it's just too depressing. 

   https://xkcd.com/850/

mnem
Of course, there's a XKCD for that...

[mnementh]

...Not for me heavy, Tektronix 7104 Oscilloscope   
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165365385517]https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165365385517

You beat me to posting about the Tek 7104, it claims to be a 1GHz scope, is that right?

This is another of those "restricted technology" Microchannel Plate CRT scopes. The construction of the plates in the CRT means they amplify the signal applied to them, and the CRT mainframe itself is capable of 1GHz response. Actual response of the entire scope is dependent upon the plugins used, of course.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

To finish, took some piccies of the FRB power socket at the back, and the power cord, just for you, because I thought the professional and conscientious Sparky in you would approve the quality of the work 

   

As an electrician, those pictures cause me physical pain.

I know, right? That bulkhead connector is just  ...  I console myself with the hope that once Vince gets the thing mostly working, he'll actually dismantle the matching socket and install a power cord properly, at which point the ugly should be mostly hidden.

mnem
*toddles off to do something constructive*

[m k]

I found some candidates but they have transportation issues.
How can it be so difficult to go and get a box from a shop.

<SNIP>

Unfortunatly it is not just getting a box and packing materials. Sending to the EU is now international with customs forms, extra costs etc etc.
I've had ebay charge an international fee, charge the seller VAT at 20% (dispite it being a used item) and then charge me seller fees on the VAT they charged!
I can't blame sellers for not wanting the extra hassle for less money.

"large and VERY heavy and I do not have any suitable packaging."
Okay, it's an Aquilascope.

I'm not asking less profit for seller.
I have an UK address but it doesn't work with "COLLECTION ONLY" stuff.

I don't really like destroying even that S54U but its UK shipping is £10, maybe postperson is doing it for me.
For that price I'm expecting a stamped chassis.

BTW,
some ebay tests.

Search in .fr, word oscilloscope, used and lowest price first.
1st is auction pricing 50€, 5th hit is from USA, all scopes.
Selecting EU only.
1st is the same but second is CRT from Lithuania.
List continues with EU stuff.

Same search with .de section, all and lowest price first.
List is full of DSO kits from China.
Maybe they send from Germany but currency of 1st is AUD.
Selecting EU only.
DSOs disappeared and the 1st one is that Lithuanian CRT.
Selecting used.
Other handhelds disappeared.
Some non German from .fr list are missing.

Then .com search, used, EU and lowest price first.
CRT is still first but now 2nd is S54A also from Lithuania.
1st hit from Germany is far away down but it is in every list and its price is exactly same in every list.

BTW2,
it seems that one time Chauvin Arnoux had a different approach.
CdA 4000
https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1819935808.htm

But how far that "Colissimo" is covered, everywhere in France?
Boîte visserie
https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/2124874095.htm

Howabout a new life for a protocol analyzer, a portable China gadget and power supply.
Cracker space can now take that memory card reader.
HP 18179A
https://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/1765276239.htm

Maybe reusing something else also.
Boîte de substitution Eurelec
https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/2093607530.htm

Two same 2610 and different Schlumbergers.
One less informed would wonder at least a bit.
https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1979162699.htm
https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/2101113538.htm

[Cerebus]

Interesting but completely wrong in some cases. Germany is colder than Ireland in the winter, but much warmer in the summer. So the chart only works for a particular season.

McBryce.

Yes, but it's not comparing Germany and Ireland, it's comparing them with where they are on the map of North America. It's always going to be a bit of stretch, but based on places I have personal experience of, the map seems to do a fair job.

I happen to have been walking in the countryside summer in both Germany and the bit of Canada (more northerly BC) that it's paired with and they are roughly equal in summer climate (and indeed both hotter than the UK/Ireland). I have been to various bits of Germany in winter but not the equivalent bits of BC, but I have relatives in BC and know that its probably a little bit colder than Germany in winter and a lot colder then the UK/Eire.  I've also been in Vancouver BC and Seattle in summer (which is right under the UK/Ireland bit) and the summer climate there is quite like the summer in London UK and a bit cooler than summer in Germany in general. So I think the comparison holds up, roughly.

[Vince]

[snip...]
But how far that "Colissimo" is covered, everywhere in France?

"Colissimo" is the name of the (public) French Post shipping service. It can send anywhere in the world.

Just looked up Finland in Wikipedia... (forgive my ignorance), looks like you are part of the EU and also in the Euro zone as well, so huge positive point for you.

No taxes/import duties/admin crap and hassle and expenses.... cheap and straightforward.

I don't see why on earth you would want to torture yourself (and your wallet) buying something from the UK ?! 

Much better getting it from any of the Euro country. If you find something you like on Leboncoin.fr then the seller can easily send it to you via "Colissimo".

Here is the 2022 tarif for Colissimo in the Euro zone (UK is 50% more expensive) :

[Vince]

To finish, took some piccies of the FRB power socket at the back, and the power cord, just for you, because I thought the professional and conscientious Sparky in you would approve the quality of the work 

   

As an electrician, those pictures cause me physical pain.

I know, right? That bulkhead connector is just  ...  I console myself with the hope that once Vince gets the thing mostly working, he'll actually dismantle the matching socket and install a power cord properly, at which point the ugly should be mostly hidden.

mnem
*toddles off to do something constructive*

GIven that's a parts unit the incentive to spend any money on it is... well it is limited ! 

Might still replace that socket though, if just for practicality. I mean half the socket is missing so the locking mechanism, and the keying stuff, is not there anymore. The 3 pins are equally spaced and shaped, so basically you can shove the plug onto (can't really say "into" anymore, given the state of it ...) the socket whichever way you want !  So each time I want to plug it, I first need to grab the DMM and check which pin is earth on the socket and plug... it gets tiring quick.
Just got off the phone with my old friend, says he might have an FRB socket somewhere... if he finds it, hence I get it for free, I would replace it for sure.

Might tidy up the cable as well... again for my own safety more than anything else...
At least the plug per se is in excellent shape, so that's 10 Euros worth right there...

@AVG : same friend also told me an interesting thing : he remembers that this counter was later revisited / updated : same basic counter from the outside (still with Nixie tubes), but inside they replaced all the discrete transistors, hundreds of them, with TTL logic chips. So, more reliable easier to troubleshoot and fix, cheap readily available ICs....but of course less charm under the hood, no Thyratron anymore, probably replaced with power trannies I would guess, or some specialized driver IC.