Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

Why could they not display UTF8 ? If the S/W handles it, why could would it not work if the S/W is running on an old computer rather than a more modern one ?

Because, the character set of the terminal is set in silicon -- sometimes you can switch between a few different versions but there is a limited number of glyph shapes in the firmware and then there are a few tables to map those to 7- or 8-bit bytes.  You must remember that nothing outside the terminal shapes the characters -- the host just sends bytes to the terminal and expects it to render them.

Oh sure, but I wasn't talking about consoles, but old desktop computers hence you can use any S/W on it, UTF8 or whatever. Sorry if that was not clear.

That's of course a different, easier problem.

Au contraire! My experience is that the careful backward compatibility of UTF-8 allows us to introduce more of Unicode in ways that expands the possibilities of communication. UTF-8 becomes 30 years old this year, and it's my experience that nothing even comes close. Both in terms of acceptance and functionality.

That's the problem here, assuming unrealistic things   

You can only be careful about what YOU do... but real life shows that the world as a whole, doesn't give a shit about being careful or competent or thoughtful... you just get what you get... so even though it works 99% of the time, I still today as I said run into stuff that doesn't work. I don't expect things to ever work 100% right, in an "open" world... the only systems that you can make to "just" work, are  systems you design from top to bottom and control every aspect of. So a computer fleet in a company where the sys admin controls everything yeah, might work, but the average Joe, clueless, incompetent, that doesn't care, using his random PC doing random stuff on random web site and random S/W with random files and data.... it's hopeless, you can't possibly expect things to just work...

No, it's not unrealistic, because it is, as I wrote, the design of UTF-8 that is well made. It will survive some mistreatment pretty well, not all of it, no, but better than anything else. Combined with the ability to render the entire Unicode space, the gains are so good that it makes sense to go straight to it, for everything new.

[m k]

Don't understand what you mean ?

How could serial be why these printers are gone ? Mine is // as I just said 
Even in 1997 when I bought it, every printer was //,  I do'nt remember that printers were serial back tehn and that oyu had to pay extra to get a // interface ?! 

The reason they are gone is probably simply because... they are 25 years old  now ?

Take any USB printer that's 20 or even just 10 years old... how many are still left today ?

Plus the HP LaserJet 6P is still far from gone, I expect, seeing as the cartridges are still readiliy available and for cheap at that.
If it was gone, nobody would bother making the cartridges available and/or they would charge through the roof or them, due to lack of demand / low volume.

I doubt a fancy fast USB printer today will be in as good a shape in 25 years as my 6P is today....

Nah, 25 years still going strong. I now make a point of keeping it just so I can see how long it can last. I will apply for an entry in the Guinness Record Book ! 

But // sucks... cable is heavy. I need a serial printer so I can hook it to my old scopes 

Been thinking / dreaming of a A3 format colour laser printer for 10 years now. Prices are going down but not fast enough for me to afford one. At least not a good one, not a cheap bottom of the barrel one that's designed to cost a fortune to run and fall apart the days after the warranty expires,  or even have firmware tricks for planned obsolescence or to force you into buying expensive OEM consumables.
Nah, no thanks. So until I can get a viable and affordable A3 colour laser, I will keep my old // Laserjet. It's a workhorse and costs nothing to run. Cost me two 20 Euros cartridges in 25 years, 400 pages each... how do these cheap modern inkjet printers compare ?!    I don't care if they have a fast USB port.... it hardly balances things out !

Would love an old black and white HP tracer too, so I can print 3 or 4 page foldout schematics from service manuals 

EDIT : in 1999 IIRC, or something like that, I remember maxing out the RAM in the printer. IIRC it had 6MB built-in, and it had a couple RAM slots for expansion. I maxed it out for cheap as it was using consumer  computer grade RAM sticks which I got cheap at some computer fair. I don't know if that makes processing images faster or not Can't remember how it was before the upgrade...
but yeah I agree it's a bit slow at printing full page pictures.
Hold on, lemme print a test page.... oh I was wrong, it has 2MB built-in not 6, and has 3 slots for expansion not 2. It says that I installed one 4MB stick and two 8MB sticks. Total RAM 22MB.

Why not large format inkjet that is actually vaxjet, space?
Vax is a bit more robust if you don't need transparency.

I think I have about a dozen printers, big and small, old and older, starting from few matrix receipt printers, slips are gone.
(I didn't accept that large format inkjet either, CalComp something)
Overall situation with them is pretty simple, use them less than designed and they will last.
My biggest one is b/w double side HP M603, it doesn't like out dry winter air and hangs every now and then.
Color model in use is Xerox 6125N(Fuji something says Linux) with no problems.
They will last here as long as ink is available.
They are also LAN connected and printing computer count is 3.
For other uses I have two HP 1320 public cubes with one printing computer.
How much I print, I bought few cases(5*500) a bit over two years ago, can't remember exactly, some packs are still left but covid has put things down.
Don't get me wrong, I've not paid any of them more than pocket changes.
Few times I've been around when somebody is pushing shopping cart with a rejected printer, like that M603.

How long they last.
Normal OPC-belt can take maybe 20k pages, I thing that is what smallest laser chassis will last.
(6P is not the smallest)
Old Canon LBP-8 chassis(HP LJ II etc) lasted more than 100k but it had few weak spots, repairable and not expensive.
Some later iron plate chassis' lasted much longer but practically all of them had a tendency to become noisy, sooner or later.
In home environment that squeaking is unbearable and the device must go, despite the printing quality.
Silencing that noise is also practically always unpractical so manufacturers have done something right, from their perspective, for quite some time.

About migration.
It's actually much more complicated than one can think, even office environment can be challenging.
I've heard that even around here some places are still using Fax machines.
If it's Fax your customer wants then it's Fax they get.
For big corporation the situation can be as hopeless as endless chain of software robots exchanging information that nobody knows anymore.
Then there are no other options than replace the whole thing.
One other thing, support, there must be support, so everything must be paid.
Small unit can use some free software but only some, they also must be connected, and obey the rules.

An anecdote,
back in the day DEC was so software compatibility paranoid against IBM that they had to be sure.
So what they did, a 9 bit wide byte, the octal system.
One can guess how easy that was later on.
Though few generation later that may have been a good thing, for them width was nothing special.

[mnementh]

Found a picture of "Teton Waters Ranch"...   

Geez, how the hell is she even standing upright, beats the hell out of me 

If we employ the magic of Pervy-vision, what the sweater doth obscure is immediately revealed. As air adds little mass, I'll wager she is not nearly as top-heavy as she appears. 

mnem
But if shes does fall over... she is gonna bounce.   

[Zucca]

Please make a short video in the future with flashing error or service LEDs. With censored, there are morsecodes ot the LEDs for various errors.

This is the feedback I got at work in 2022. No joke. 

[Vince]

[Snip snip snip]

Why not large format inkjet that is actually vaxjet, space?

Wow, a printer expert ! 

Uh... I don't have your knowledge... didn't even know about this waxjet thing. Or maybe that's the English name for " Sublimation Thermique " ?! 

I have not studied the subjet in detail, as I am not in the market just yet. Too little money and too many other higher priorities... so I am just day dreaming basically !

But as for space yes, definitely don't have much of it !

I do consider a "jet" something printer to do my A3 colour printing, because I do'nt need to do much of it so consumable prices is not a big problem.
Also I would buy an old model, from a time where the cost per page was much lower, with big tanks, refillable, and the F/W was not trying to rip you off.
Problem is that "jet" printer dry/clog and then it's a disaster... I know, I was given a Brother inkjet with a clogged print head.. tried every trick I could find on the web to bring it back to life, to no available, so it got scraped...
But it's easy enough to prevent I guess : just need to remember to print something regularly, to keep the head from drying, keep the ink flowing in the system...


Then for printing mulitpage foldout schematic, of course a tracer is needed, since the size of the foldout is arbitrary, can be anything. 3 pags, 3.7 pages, 4.5 pages... so I need a tracer with a roll of paper and the printer just keeps the paper rolling as much as required to print the foldout.

I quite liked the old HP B&W HP tracers in the '90s. Loved the looks/industrial design, the build quality. Plus since it uses a roll of paper, it does not take too much space.
At a company I was doing a placement at, in 1997, the R&D dept. had a full size A0 HP tracer, was so cool to look at the tracer print mega big drawings ! 

Don't need A0 though... only 300mm wide so that it can print A4 foldouts of any length. Don't think such small tracers exist though, so might have to go with a bigger one, but hoping I can find one that's smaller than A0...

[mnementh]

I'm sorry, Alan... I've failed to keep the nerd-gift promise; I did not keep it safe on its journey, even though I thought I had packed it safely.   

While CA can make it all one piece, it will never be whole again; but I do promise it will still hold no less a place of pride on my mantle.

mnem
it has... character. like its owner. 

[BU508A]

 

[mnementh]

 

mnem
*off to do battle with the Balrog DMV*

[med6753]

Started re-capping the Type 105. Intention is to keep the original cans in place. There is plenty of room under the chassis to install the replacement caps on terminal strips. Also, all the cans are totally isolated from the chassis. Neither the negative or positive is connected to the chassis. That makes installing the new capacitors actually somewhat easier. The negative side wiring of the original can will be left in place. There will be a tie in to the negative side from the new capacitor. All the positive side wiring will be removed from the cans and wired to the new capacitor. This removes the original cans out of circuit.

As an example here is C41 and C42 replaced with a single 82uf/450V. They were dual 20uf/450v wired in parallel. See schematic. Negative side wiring left in tact. All positive wiring now to the 82uf cap.

[THDplusN_bad]

On the VT220 and other terminals:

What can I say - some chaps can do magic with their RPi design ideas:
https://engineer.john-whittington.co.uk/2019/06/whitterm-220-2-0/
https://github.com/tuna-f1sh/whitterm-wt220
It's not the same thing as the original terminal hardware, of course - but have a look for yourself. I'd say: "Good work, John W.!"

Cheers,

THDplusN_bad

[Cerebus]

Just got a package that I wasn't expecting for another few days.



"So what?", you say.

The reason for mentioning it is that most of the brass wire 'sponges' for tip cleaning I've come across are way overpriced, especially for what they are. Typical prices for the replacement brushes are in the £2.50 to £3.50 each bracket (Weller even have one that's £5). When looking up a Thermaltronics tip the other day I tripped across these. Reputable brand, and everybody I've found seems to sell them at around the £10 mark for a pack of ten, so ~£1 each, much better. This particular lot I found on ebay UK for £9.99 delivered.

[Vince]

Cool, will add that to the list.

My brass sponge I bought 15/20 years ago, it's starting to look a bit sorry I must say... 

[ch_scr]

Just got a package that I wasn't expecting for another few days.



"So what?", you say.

The reason for mentioning it is that most of the brass wire 'sponges' for tip cleaning I've come across are way overpriced, especially for what they are. Typical prices for the replacement brushes are in the £2.50 to £3.50 each bracket (Weller even have one that's £5). When looking up a Thermaltronics tip the other day I tripped across these. Reputable brand, and everybody I've found seems to sell them at around the £10 mark for a pack of ten, so ~£1 each, much better. This particular lot I found on ebay UK for £9.99 delivered.

That's a good price! I did have a high consumption on these, until an soldering greybeard told me to "just tip the soldering iron on the stand like you would a cigarette to flick off ash (maybe a little bit harder)" before cleaning. Yes, just like the safety manual tells you to never do  It keeps most of the solder out of the "sponge", prolonging it's life tremendously. I've so far only once managed to flick a drop of solder in my general direction...

[mnementh]

I usually just get the cheap copper scouring pads from the grocery. 

I also used stainless ones for years with my old Weller WTCPN; the miniscule amount of pressure applied in this application makes it really irrelevant what kind of Brillo you use as long as it doesn't have a caustic coating.

mnem
 

[AVGresponding]

I finally got around to sorting through the semiconductors in that RS NOS lot I scored a couple of weeks back. Oooft! 419 ICs, 56 transistors.

I'm attaching the lists, some are a bit obscure, if anyone has a need of a particular piece of unobtainium oddness, pm me.

Not included on the lists are some nice 1N823, 6.2V 500mW 50ppm zeners, and some oddball phototransistors I couldn't find a datasheet for, pics below. Part number may be 2100-4 or 21004   

[Specmaster]

Found a picture of "Teton Waters Ranch"...   

Geez, how the hell is she even standing upright, beats the hell out of me 

If we employ the magic of Pervy-vision, what the sweater doth obscure is immediately revealed. As air adds little mass, I'll wager she is not nearly as top-heavy as she appears. 

mnem
But if shes does fall over... she is gonna bounce.   

I must admit, I did wonder if that was a fake photo or not, but I do know that there are some very strange and deranged women out there who take delight in doing such stupid things as enlarging their breasts to similar proportions with silicon etc.

[Cubdriver]

Found a picture of "Teton Waters Ranch"...   

Geez, how the hell is she even standing upright, beats the hell out of me 

If we employ the magic of Pervy-vision, what the sweater doth obscure is immediately revealed. As air adds little mass, I'll wager she is not nearly as top-heavy as she appears. 

mnem
But if shes does fall over... she is gonna bounce.   

I must admit, I did wonder if that was a fake photo or not, but I do know that there are some very strange and deranged women out there who take delight in doing such stupid things as enlarging their breasts to similar proportions with silicon etc.

I think if those were filled with silly-cone, she'd need to wear a backpack with an anvil inside as a counterweight.

-Pat

[Specmaster]

I usually just get the cheap copper scouring pads from the grocery. 

I also used stainless ones for years with my old Weller WTCPN; the miniscule amount of pressure applied in this application makes it really irrelevant what kind of Brillo you use as long as it doesn't have a caustic coating.

mnem
 

Ditto, I pick up the copper ones in our local Tesco's when I need one. Seems to be every bit as good as the dearer branded ones for the same purpose.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Some comments on the pictures:

A somewhat closer pic than Spec usually manages. Less engines running, though.

Sometimes it takes a special picture to get a firmly embedded notion corrected. I always had the Viggen put down mentally as being much more massive than the Gripen, factually as an aircraft of F-4-size. Your picture made me look at the data in direct comparison - it sits between the two except in wing area, which is nearly the same as the F-4 due to the configuration.

[Specmaster]

Found a picture of "Teton Waters Ranch"...   

Geez, how the hell is she even standing upright, beats the hell out of me 

If we employ the magic of Pervy-vision, what the sweater doth obscure is immediately revealed. As air adds little mass, I'll wager she is not nearly as top-heavy as she appears. 

mnem
But if shes does fall over... she is gonna bounce.   

I must admit, I did wonder if that was a fake photo or not, but I do know that there are some very strange and deranged women out there who take delight in doing such stupid things as enlarging their breasts to similar proportions with silicon etc.

I think if those were filled with silly-cone, she'd need to wear a backpack with an anvil inside as a counterweight.

-Pat

Well she was rather arching her back backwards, as if to try supporting their weight. 

[m k]

[Snip snip snip]

Why not large format inkjet that is actually vaxjet, space?

Wow, a printer expert ! 

Uh... I don't have your knowledge... didn't even know about this waxjet thing. Or maybe that's the English name for " Sublimation Thermique " ?! 

I have not studied the subjet in detail, as I am not in the market just yet. Too little money and too many other higher priorities... so I am just day dreaming basically !

But as for space yes, definitely don't have much of it !

I do consider a "jet" something printer to do my A3 colour printing, because I do'nt need to do much of it so consumable prices is not a big problem.
Also I would buy an old model, from a time where the cost per page was much lower, with big tanks, refillable, and the F/W was not trying to rip you off.
Problem is that "jet" printer dry/clog and then it's a disaster... I know, I was given a Brother inkjet with a clogged print head.. tried every trick I could find on the web to bring it back to life, to no available, so it got scraped...
But it's easy enough to prevent I guess : just need to remember to print something regularly, to keep the head from drying, keep the ink flowing in the system...


Then for printing mulitpage foldout schematic, of course a tracer is needed, since the size of the foldout is arbitrary, can be anything. 3 pags, 3.7 pages, 4.5 pages... so I need a tracer with a roll of paper and the printer just keeps the paper rolling as much as required to print the foldout.

I quite liked the old HP B&W HP tracers in the '90s. Loved the looks/industrial design, the build quality. Plus since it uses a roll of paper, it does not take too much space.
At a company I was doing a placement at, in 1997, the R&D dept. had a full size A0 HP tracer, was so cool to look at the tracer print mega big drawings ! 

Don't need A0 though... only 300mm wide so that it can print A4 foldouts of any length. Don't think such small tracers exist though, so might have to go with a bigger one, but hoping I can find one that's smaller than A0...

Yes, sublimation it is, it doesn't clog so easily.

If you're in a right place and in a right time you will be given that printer, if they are not gone already.
You can also disconnect its stand so it will fit in a regular sedan.
Stand may be peeking from the trunk but that's a nuance.

Large format printers were a boom once.
Their progress was also fast so many had many.
Something like 3D-printing now, no pro will accept too old models.
The difference is that large format printers are not large in all directions, so old ones can be pushed back.

One problem with jet printers that use permanent ink is that you don't know how to dilute that ink and anybody who has done silk pressing knows that solvents are more than few and wrong one is not what you want.
One funny emulsion can stand practically anything but water.

Water based inks are easy, you can even print clean water if you like.
But if ink is dry deep down it will take time, big time.

Anecdote,
back in the day I was called to go and check a printer connection.
So I did and drove into the middle of nowhere and there were some log cabins, or a bit bigger ones.
Old man with a long gray hair and beard came to say greetings and showed me the way.
The cottage was full of staff and large pen plotters, the man was a famous architect.

[tautech]

........... and some oddball phototransistors I couldn't find a datasheet for, pics below. Part number may be 2100-4 or 21004   

Coupled to the right LED with black shrink sleeve they would make good HV optocouplers.

[Vince]

Uh... I don't have your knowledge... didn't even know about this waxjet thing. Or maybe that's the English name for " Sublimation Thermique " ?! 

Yes, sublimation it is, it doesn't clog so easily.
If you're in a right place and in a right time you will be given that printer, if they are not gone already.
You can also disconnect its stand so it will fit in a regular sedan.
Stand may be peeking from the trunk but that's a nuance.

OK... might be looking for one of those then.
I met such a printer only once in my life.
I was a student in the UK in Saint-Ives in that little company, doing electronics R&D. Was in 1999/2000.
I remember once, I went in an office where a guy printed me an A3 schematic a sublimation printer, Epson I think. Was a "normal" size printer, not a monster. Fitted just fine on a desk.
Maybe 300mm wide so that it could print A3. Maybe 400 or 600 I don't know it was so long ago... but definitely not a monster on a stand, no it was just laid there on a desk.. I remember being very impressed with the quality of the (colour) print. Back in that day inkjet printers were very shitty, needed fancy expensive paper, tons of ink and 2 hours to print a single full size max quality A4 colour picture. That Epson printer looked so much more advanced in comparison !
Would like one of those ideally...

[mnementh]

Ooooh, sure... 

mnem

[Vince]

Congratulations, you now are a proud (?) citizen of Connecticut.

My ancient Vectron OCXO was made there, so now you can take your Saturn for a drive, visit them and get me a freaking datasheet for the thing ! 


This has to be your shortest and less controversial post in history, we need to flag it for posterity.