Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Saskia]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

[tggzzz]

Crusty af battery compartment, but probably works:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373934854031

I have a 1V version of that. I quite like it. With mu out-of-cal Agilent 34410A, it shows 1.000009V with 300nVrms noise.

I don't use the batteries!

[Robert763]

Some ebay listings in order to try and get some other people to throw their wallets in front of mine...



<SNIP>


Anyone near St Asaph? Wherever that is...  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165339867097



That's Andrews neck of the woods

<SNIP>

[tggzzz]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

[Cerebus]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

Find yourself a copy of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants" online (there are loads kicking about) and marvel at the terrifying list of unstable, toxic terrors that have been considered (and even used) as rocket propellants over the last century. I find sentences that include the words "hypergolic" and "fluorine" a trifle scary.

[Specmaster]

One for the Specmaster:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373933524122





Anyone near St Asaph? Wherever that is...  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165339867097

LCR meter was already in my watch list from day 1 and St Asaph is North Wales. 

[tggzzz]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

Find yourself a copy of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants" online (there are loads kicking about) and marvel at the terrifying list of unstable, toxic terrors that have been considered (and even used) as rocket propellants over the last century. I find sentences that include the words "hypergolic" and "fluorine" a trifle scary.

My father was quite happy to bring concentrated hydrochloric acid home on the bus in his coat pocket, so that I could make hydrogen sulphide. HF frightened him, and he wouldn't work with it.

Cue Derek Lowe's deliciously droll  columns on "things I won't work with" https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-work-with Example: "peroxide peroxides", "dioxygen diflouride", and chlorine triflouride which sets sand on fire.

[Cubdriver]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

Find yourself a copy of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants" online (there are loads kicking about) and marvel at the terrifying list of unstable, toxic terrors that have been considered (and even used) as rocket propellants over the last century. I find sentences that include the words "hypergolic" and "fluorine" a trifle scary.

My father was quite happy to bring concentrated hydrochloric acid home on the bus in his coat pocket, so that I could make hydrogen sulphide. HF frightened him, and he wouldn't work with it.

Cue Derek Lowe's deliciously droll  columns on "things I won't work with"

HF is seriously nasty stuff - we used plenty of it at National back in the day.

-Pat

[mnementh]

Linus likes it so much he invested $250K in the company.

mnem
*noshing on a bowl of steamed stir-fry veggies*

[mansaxel]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

Find yourself a copy of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants" online (there are loads kicking about) and marvel at the terrifying list of unstable, toxic terrors that have been considered (and even used) as rocket propellants over the last century. I find sentences that include the words "hypergolic" and "fluorine" a trifle scary.

I support this. It is fascinating reading. I have it somewhere.

[mnementh]

This is just... I mean... it's... I have no words...   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353913646232   

Do we have any provenance on this thing...? I mean, is it a thing (Like Disney buying those early model AF oscillators from Bill & Dave), or did some asshat just slap a Tektronix watchband on a old Disney watch because they sortof matched...?

Would be nice to see the back of the watch...

mnem
 

[TERRA Operative]

Just for giggles I was reading the manuals as listed in TekWiki for the 6015 and 6015A.

The latest copy of the 6015 manual (1985) still listed freon as the dielectric fluid.

On the other hand, the 6015A manual makes no mention of a dielectric fluid at all. Apparently a design change to eliminate that requirement.

Yep, not a peep on dielectric fluid requirement for the A version.

That's the one with the silicone stuff inside.
It's factory sealed so 'not refillable' so there's no part number or real info on the stuff Tek used.

[Cerebus]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

Find yourself a copy of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants" online (there are loads kicking about) and marvel at the terrifying list of unstable, toxic terrors that have been considered (and even used) as rocket propellants over the last century. I find sentences that include the words "hypergolic" and "fluorine" a trifle scary.

I support this. It is fascinating terrifying reading. I have it somewhere.

TFTFY

An example:

Chlorine trifluoride, ClF3, or "CTF" as the engineers insist on call- ing it, is a colorless gas, a greenish liquid, or a white solid. It boils at 12° (so that a trivial pressure will keep it liquid at room temperature) and freezes at a convenient —76°. It also has a nice fat density, about 1.81 at room temperature. It is also quite probably the most vigorous fluorinating agent in existence—much more vigorous than fluorine itself. Gaseous fluorine, of course, is much more dilute than the liquid ClF3, and liquid fluo- rine is so cold that its activity is very much reduced.

All this sounds fairly academic and innocuous, but when it is translated into the problem of handling the stuff, the results are horrendous. It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the prob- lem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water —with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals — steel, copper, alumi- num, etc. —because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminum keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always rec- ommended a good pair of running shoes. And even if you don't have a fire, the results can be devastating enough when chlorine trifluoride gets loose, as the General Chemical Co. discovered when they had a big spill. Their salesmen were awfully coy about discussing the mat- ter, and it wasn't until I threatened to buy my RFNA from Du Pont that one of them would come across with the details.

[mansaxel]

[modular laptop]

Linus likes it so much he invested $250K in the company.

mnem
*noshing on a bowl of steamed stir-fry veggies*

Kinda cool, actually. I'm somewhat in the market for a new laptop. Guess I'm going to try getting an used M1 MBP, though. Those are seriously cool. I have the 16" Intel from last year for work, and it is a very good computer, even with the touch bar.

[BU508A]

Today I had a surprise visitor who will probably stay a little longer.
And he showed some interest in tearing down my R&S ADS so he's getting prepared for it.



So, stay tuned!

  

[mansaxel]

I support this. It is fascinating terrifying reading. I have it somewhere.

TFTFY

From a distance, it's fascinating. Close up, not so much.

The stories around the military uses of some of those auto-ignition fuels are horrible. The missile silo that cooked off and went on killing people in the Damascus accident is particularly nasty.

[tggzzz]

hydrogen as fuel is fine if paired with a suitable oxidizer.
Fluourine comes to mind ...

Put the video on yootoob

Find yourself a copy of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants" online (there are loads kicking about) and marvel at the terrifying list of unstable, toxic terrors that have been considered (and even used) as rocket propellants over the last century. I find sentences that include the words "hypergolic" and "fluorine" a trifle scary.

I support this. It is fascinating terrifying reading. I have it somewhere.

TFTFY

An example:

Chlorine trifluoride, ClF3, or "CTF" as the engineers insist on call- ing it, is a colorless gas, a greenish liquid, or a white solid. It boils at 12° (so that a trivial pressure will keep it liquid at room temperature) and freezes at a convenient —76°. It also has a nice fat density, about 1.81 at room temperature. It is also quite probably the most vigorous fluorinating agent in existence—much more vigorous than fluorine itself. Gaseous fluorine, of course, is much more dilute than the liquid ClF3, and liquid fluo- rine is so cold that its activity is very much reduced.

All this sounds fairly academic and innocuous, but when it is translated into the problem of handling the stuff, the results are horrendous. It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the prob- lem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water —with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals — steel, copper, alumi- num, etc. —because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminum keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always rec- ommended a good pair of running shoes. And even if you don't have a fire, the results can be devastating enough when chlorine trifluoride gets loose, as the General Chemical Co. discovered when they had a big spill. Their salesmen were awfully coy about discussing the mat- ter, and it wasn't until I threatened to buy my RFNA from Du Pont that one of them would come across with the details.

As per...

It is apparently about the most vigorous fluorinating agent known, and is much more difficult to handle than fluorine gas. That’s one of those statements you don’t get to hear very often, and it should be enough to make any sensible chemist turn around smartly and head down the hall in the other direction.
The compound also a stronger oxidizing agent than oxygen itself, which also puts it into rare territory. That means that it can potentially go on to “burn” things that you would normally consider already burnt to hell and gone, and a practical consequence of that is that it’ll start roaring reactions with things like bricks and asbestos tile. It’s been used in the semiconductor industry to clean oxides off of surfaces, at which activity it no doubt excels.
There’s a report from the early 1950s (in this PDF) of a one-ton spill of the stuff.

For the PDF, see https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-you-time

[srb1954]

You made me look that up out of curiosity. Flammability limits 1.8% - 8.4% butane:air. Stoichiometric at 6.1%.

Aren't those the lower (LEL) and upper (UEL) explosive limits not the flammabilty limits.  Within those those limits the butane will burn explosively. Outside those limits it will still burn but in a rather milder fashion.

[KubaSO]

> I have come to observe that stiffness, rigidity and lack of undesired movement are preferred characteristics surrounding 3D printing.

Ah. Yes. I have a tested solution for that. Weighs about 50kg

[AVGresponding]

Now look it up for hydrogen.

Luckily no fool would consider that as a fuel or anything. 

100% agreed, the use of hydrogen as a fuel is the dumbest thing since radioactive health foods. It burns explosively very very quickly at a very wide range of air-fuel mixes.

[AVGresponding]

This is just... I mean... it's... I have no words...   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353913646232   

Do we have any provenance on this thing...? I mean, is it a thing (Like Disney buying those early model AF oscillators from Bill & Dave), or did some asshat just slap a Tektronix watchband on a old Disney watch because they sortof matched...?

Would be nice to see the back of the watch...

mnem
 

You could pm the seller and find out for us; they are on your side of the water feature.

[TERRA Operative]

Here's a question for the Tektronix-otaku here...

Did Tek ever release a Tekprobe adapter to allow the customer to build their own probes and fixtures using the Tekprobe interface?
I have an idea I want to try and I'm not going to scrap a good probe. I guess I'll have to end up finding a busted probe to scrap, but just wondering if there is an 'official' part to use?

[Robert763]

Now look it up for hydrogen.

Luckily no fool would consider that as a fuel or anything. 

100% agreed, the use of hydrogen as a fuel is the dumbest thing since radioactive health foods. It burns explosively very very quickly at a very wide range of air-fuel mixes.

Well you better stand by because it is the fuel of the future. It's big advantage is the when burnt at lower temperatures the sole resut is power and water. At higher temperatures if burn with air NOx can be produced. This is aa bit of an issue for IC engines.
Yes it has it's challeges but I suggest that if we already had an established hydrogen based transport system and someone suggested using liquid hydrocarbons you you get similar shocked comments. Hydrogen is not posionous, lighter than air so disperses easily and apart from cyrogenic concerns for liquid pretty harmless. Petrol is posionous ( on pet peeve of mine using toxic for non biologically produced substances. No I don't accept that some hydrocarbons were once plants and I know common usage has made toxic the same a posionous  off) persistent and vapours are heavy and thus collect.

[TERRA Operative]

Now look it up for hydrogen.

Luckily no fool would consider that as a fuel or anything. 

100% agreed, the use of hydrogen as a fuel is the dumbest thing since radioactive health foods. It burns explosively very very quickly at a very wide range of air-fuel mixes.

When I was in the welder repair game, our parent company was BOC gasses.
I would occasionally go to their main depo to do various work related to welders and was told about (and saw) their on site acetylene production and hydrogen storage.
They had a semi-trailer with a bunch of long tanks (3 across, 2 high IIRC) and as long as a full length trailer.

Apparently if that thing went pop, the damage radius was about 2 kilometers in every direction... Total destruction was multiple hundreds of meters.

Good stuff that hydrogen...

[dl6lr]

Yep, not a peep on dielectric fluid requirement for the A version.

AFAIR they replaced the Freon with some sort of silicone jelly. Kind of stuff for breast implantate, ask PIP for a sample 
The problem with replacing Freon with PFPE like Galden: You have to get a PFPE with a vapor pressure that is similar to the original Freon. I have a can of Galden for vapor soldering but that boils at 200°C. You will likely change the dielectric coefficient that may affect the frequency response as the P6015 is rated up to 75MHz.