Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 16693175 times)

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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113275 on: February 08, 2022, 10:19:02 pm »
Do you want to see me run away screaming into the night...?  :scared:

No, at night you should sleep and rest. You and McBryce are in front of a rabbit hole, like me with Klipper.
Let me do the heavy lifting and report back, better for you guys to wait.

Seat back, relax and (then) enjoy the hole.  :-DD

PS: In Italy we says: "Mi metto una scopa in culo e ti ramazzo la stanza".
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113276 on: February 08, 2022, 11:09:38 pm »
Oh oh... found a couple bags full of random components, sorting time !  :scared:

Took me only 6 hours or something to do ?!  :palm:

This was given to me only 4 years ago by a friend who gave up on electronics. He started the hobby 20 years ago only, so these components are probably twice younger than the electrolytic caps I sorted the other day. PLUS... turns out 99% of the stuff is actually NOS not crusty salvaged junk !

First bag, salvaged stuff but useful : a few small heat sinks, fuse holders, a few mid-power trannies, and  a handful of 250V orange dipped film caps, mostly.

Other bag with all the NOS stuff I emptied in a Quality Streets box to sort them.
All small discrete components.
Mostly caps.

- A drawer of TO-92 trannies.
- A drawer full of 10uF 25V axial electrolytic caps, in the most ugly light brown colour. Counted them all... no less than 540 of them ! That's a lot of 10uF 25V isn't it...
- A drawer full of electrolytic caps, pot-pourri.
- A drawer of ceramic caps
- A drawer of low voltage ( < 250V I mean, mostly 63V it seems) colourful film caps.
- A drawer of "looks like 1/4W resistor", tiny green inductors.
- A drawer of what looks like 1/4 precision resistors, but most have a yellow tolerance band and that does not ring a bell, so maybe they are not resistors... until I decide on what they are, what to do with them, I don't mix them with my existing precision resistors... better safe than sorry. That being said, I picked one of them up at random, colour bands as can be seen on close-up picture below, are RED - RED - BLACK - GOLD - YELLOW.  So if it's a resistor, should be 22R + Yellow tolerance band.. .and I measured it, it reads spot on 22R. So maybe yellow is a valid tolerance colour ?!  :-//  I knew of red and brown for 1% and 2% , easy enough to remember, but Yellow... that doesn't ring a bell.






 
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Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113277 on: February 08, 2022, 11:22:46 pm »
Oh oh... found a couple bags full of random components, sorting time !  :scared:

Took me only 6 hours or something to do ?!  :palm:

This was given to me only 4 years ago by a friend who gave up on electronics. He started the hobby 20 years ago only, so these components are probably twice younger than the electrolytic caps I sorted the other day. PLUS... turns out 99% of the stuff is actually NOS not crusty salvaged junk !

First bag, salvaged stuff but useful : a few small heat sinks, fuse holders, a few mid-power trannies, and  a handful of 250V orange dipped film caps, mostly.

Other bag with all the NOS stuff I emptied in a Quality Streets box to sort them.
All small discrete components.
Mostly caps.

- A drawer of TO-92 trannies.
- A drawer full of 10uF 25V axial electrolytic caps, in the most ugly light brown colour. Counted them all... no less than 540 of them ! That's a lot of 10uF 25V isn't it...
- A drawer full of electrolytic caps, pot-pourri.
- A drawer of ceramic caps
- A drawer of low voltage ( < 250V I mean, mostly 63V it seems) colourful film caps.
- A drawer of "looks like 1/4W resistor", tiny green inductors.
- A drawer of what looks like 1/4 precision resistors, but most have a yellow tolerance band and that does not ring a bell, so maybe they are not resistors... until I decide on what they are, what to do with them, I don't mix them with my existing precision resistors... better safe than sorry. That being said, I picked one of them up at random, colour bands as can be seen on close-up picture below, are RED - RED - BLACK - GOLD - YELLOW.  So if it's a resistor, should be 22R + Yellow tolerance band.. .and I measured it, it reads spot on 22R. So maybe yellow is a valid tolerance colour ?!  :-//  I knew of red and brown for 1% and 2% , easy enough to remember, but Yellow... that doesn't ring a bell.







My first thought on the additional yellow band is that it's either a temperature coefficient marking or a reliability rating band, but I wouldn't expect to see those on what appears to be a 5% tolerance carbon film resistor, so I'm kind of at a loss on exactly what it is.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113278 on: February 08, 2022, 11:25:11 pm »
- A drawer of what looks like 1/4 precision resistors, but most have a yellow tolerance band and that does not ring a bell, so maybe they are not resistors... until I decide on what they are, what to do with them, I don't mix them with my existing precision resistors... better safe than sorry. That being said, I picked one of them up at random, colour bands as can be seen on close-up picture below, are RED - RED - BLACK - GOLD - YELLOW.  So if it's a resistor, should be 22R + Yellow tolerance band.. .and I measured it, it reads spot on 22R. So maybe yellow is a valid tolerance colour ?!  :-//  I knew of red and brown for 1% and 2% , easy enough to remember, but Yellow... that doesn't ring a bell.

IIRC, a yellow band on a carbon composite resistor means 'mil spec' or higher reliability etc.

Might be a similar thing for your resistors too.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113279 on: February 08, 2022, 11:30:58 pm »
I don't mix them with my existing precision resistors... better safe than sorry. That being said, I picked one of them up at random, colour bands as can be seen on close-up picture below, are RED - RED - BLACK - GOLD - YELLOW.  So if it's a resistor, should be 22R + Yellow tolerance band.. .and I measured it, it reads spot on 22R. So maybe yellow is a valid tolerance colour ?!  :-//  I knew of red and brown for 1% and 2% , easy enough to remember, but Yellow... that doesn't ring a bell.


My first thought on the additional yellow band is that it's either a temperature coefficient marking or a reliability rating band, but I wouldn't expect to see those on what appears to be a 5% tolerance carbon film resistor, so I'm kind of at a loss on exactly what it is.

-Pat

Good idea !

Found this colour table that's more complete than most, and it does indeed say there can be a colour band for tempco !  And yellow is a valid colour... means 25ppm... twice better than my metal 1% resistors !  :o

So.. it's a mere 5% resistor, but a stable one... I learned something new today, cool ! 8)

 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113280 on: February 08, 2022, 11:34:13 pm »
All this sorting and inventorying of loose parts is forcing me to assess my system here and quickly realizing it's less than adequate. So now my anal retentive need for perfect neatness and organization is weighing heavily on my mind. I may wind up ripping apart the TE closet and starting all over.

You guys suck.  :P :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113281 on: February 08, 2022, 11:39:23 pm »
You're welcome !  :-DD
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113282 on: February 08, 2022, 11:43:31 pm »
All this sorting and inventorying of loose parts is forcing me to assess my system here and quickly realizing it's less than adequate. So now my anal retentive need for perfect neatness and organization is weighing heavily on my mind. I may wind up ripping apart the TE closet and starting all over.

You guys suck.  :P :-DD
Agreed, they do.
Now let's sort all our decades of carefully acquired and stashed goodies out and reorganize them where in 5 minutes we won't be able to find a bloody thing !
Unlike those younger that can be retrained we that have 20 years on Vince rely on how we've always done stuff until it becomes instinct.

Not changing nuthing here.  :P
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113283 on: February 08, 2022, 11:50:16 pm »
All this sorting and inventorying of loose parts is forcing me to assess my system here and quickly realizing it's less than adequate. So now my anal retentive need for perfect neatness and organization is weighing heavily on my mind. I may wind up ripping apart the TE closet and starting all over.

You guys suck.  :P :-DD


mnem
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113284 on: February 08, 2022, 11:55:31 pm »
All this sorting and inventorying of loose parts is forcing me to assess my system here and quickly realizing it's less than adequate. So now my anal retentive need for perfect neatness and organization is weighing heavily on my mind. I may wind up ripping apart the TE closet and starting all over.

You guys suck.  :P :-DD
Agreed, they do.
Now let's sort all our decades of carefully acquired and stashed goodies out and reorganize them where in 5 minutes we won't be able to find a bloody thing !
Unlike those younger that can be retrained we that have 20 years on Vince rely on how we've always done stuff until it becomes instinct.

Not changing nuthing here.  :P

One area that I completely agree I need to better organize is the bins of Tek boards/parts in the garage. I need to reorganize them by scope type and mark the bins. Currently tossed together in a mess. I went looking for a 465 (Not B) vertical board which I know I have but couldn't find.  ::) 

Edit.....but right now it's just too damn cold out there. Spring can't come soon enough.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 12:17:52 am by med6753 »
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113285 on: February 09, 2022, 12:35:30 am »

Found this colour table that's more complete than most, and it does indeed say there can be a colour band for tempco !  And yellow is a valid colour... means 25ppm... twice better than my metal 1% resistors !  :o



I could never find a good, complete one - so I made my own.

Here, have a copy of the Cerebus colour code - including a printable pdf with E series numbers on.

Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Carl_Smith

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113286 on: February 09, 2022, 01:11:32 am »
Been a long time since I've bought any TE.  But this is tempting me a lot:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/313865293335

I've wanted one of these Tek handheld scopes since I used one back in the late 1990's when I worked at the electric forklift company.  It's just too cool that you can hook one channel to a motor in an H bridge and the other channel to the logic driving the H-bridge and not short everything out when the motor polarity flips.


Edit: or maybe this one:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/175138573048

That's a wee bit on the expensive side; I've a couple myself and you'd have to add them together to get to a £300 purchase price. I'd suggest $200 is more like a fair price if they are complete sets, and if the batteries are usable (they are expensive to replace/a faff to make).

Nice scopes though.


Yeah, I read somewhere, maybe in a different old thread on here, that $200 was a fair price.  But I've been watching the tea-bay for maybe 6 weeks now and I haven't seen any of them listed for much less than $300.  The most common price is around $500 for ones with most of the accessories.  I don't know if any of them are actually selling at that price (should go back and check that) but I'm getting an itchy buy finger... :)  I would like to at least find one that comes with the proper insulated probes. 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113287 on: February 09, 2022, 01:23:15 am »
Well you are lucky in the US then, 'cause here I see them regularly for sale, and they are always at 750 Euros, about 900+  USD... at only 300 USD I would probably buy two of them  :-DD

 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113288 on: February 09, 2022, 01:24:59 am »

Found this colour table that's more complete than most, and it does indeed say there can be a colour band for tempco !  And yellow is a valid colour... means 25ppm... twice better than my metal 1% resistors !  :o



.


I could never find a good, complete one - so I made my own.

Here, have a copy of the Cerebus colour code - including a printable pdf with E series numbers on.



But that's strange then, it does not add up with my resistor above does it ?
Mine has only 5 bands but does have tempco it seems ! At least that's the only to lake sense of the thing ?!  :-//
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 01:27:44 am by Vince »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113289 on: February 09, 2022, 01:41:51 am »
I feel like Smaug on his pile of gold.... :D

Mine feels more like a pile of brass.....   :palm:

..... and don't ask the family what they think!
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113290 on: February 09, 2022, 01:55:05 am »

Found this colour table that's more complete than most, and it does indeed say there can be a colour band for tempco !  And yellow is a valid colour... means 25ppm... twice better than my metal 1% resistors !  :o



.


I could never find a good, complete one - so I made my own.

Here, have a copy of the Cerebus colour code - including a printable pdf with E series numbers on.



But that's strange then, it does not add up with my resistor above does it ?
Mine has only 5 bands but does have tempco it seems ! At least that's the only to lake sense of the thing ?!  :-//

There are all sorts of variations and I only listed the commonest variants. It's quite normal to have a 4 band + tempco. "4 band" normally means two significant digits, a multiplier and a tolerance and when someone says "5 band" they are usually referring to a code with three significant figures, a multiplier and a tolerance. It's one of those things that one has to treat with a little context sensitivity which can be difficult when colours aren't as clear as they ought to be - I'be noticed a trend in recent years towards strong base body colours and weak band colours that make some resistors nigh impossible to decode without measuring them.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113291 on: February 09, 2022, 02:08:47 am »
I've got a small 50VA toroidal transformer that I've had kicking about for years. I use it with a variac for breadboarding small linear supplies and the like i.e. pretty much anything that I need a low voltage AC supply for. I decided that it was really time that it got a proper box of its own, with luxuries like a mains switch, filter and fuses - which is what the hammond box was for and why I was bitching about missing drill bits the other day.

Finally got the drill bits, made some holes and painted the damn thing. Amazing how some simple projects seem to drag out. Anyway, the paint has had a day to dry and I've cut out some graphics and labelling on the vinyl cutter and applied them. I'm almost at the point where i can do the fun bit - assembling everything and doing some soldering.

Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113292 on: February 09, 2022, 02:12:14 am »

Found this colour table that's more complete than most, and it does indeed say there can be a colour band for tempco !  And yellow is a valid colour... means 25ppm... twice better than my metal 1% resistors !  :o



I could never find a good, complete one - so I made my own.

Here, have a copy of the Cerebus colour code - including a printable pdf with E series numbers on.


Nice job "C" but there are plenty of nice charts on the web already and apparently there are even better tempco ratings out there as this chart demonstrates.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 08:53:58 am by Specmaster »
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113293 on: February 09, 2022, 02:27:26 am »
I've got a small 50VA toroidal transformer that I've had kicking about for years. I use it with a variac for breadboarding small linear supplies and the like i.e. pretty much anything that I need a low voltage AC supply for. I decided that it was really time that it got a proper box of its own, with luxuries like a mains switch, filter and fuses - which is what the hammond box was for and why I was bitching about missing drill bits the other day.

Finally got the drill bits, made some holes and painted the damn thing. Amazing how some simple projects seem to drag out. Anyway, the paint has had a day to dry and I've cut out some graphics and labelling on the vinyl cutter and applied them. I'm almost at the point where i can do the fun bit - assembling everything and doing some soldering.




Sure looks nice, but I wonder how does the vinyl stick to the surface ? Does it have a sticky back ?
And then I am extremely worried about the durability of vinyl over the years ? I mean abrasion heat, dirt, scratches, chemicals etc... I would like to make custom artwork on the face plate of my future projects, but I am looking at more durable solution, like printing directly on the face plate + clear coat,  or engraving + paint filling  + clear coat, or laser engraving... I don't know what other techniques might be out there, but I want to try a bit of everything until I find something that works for me...

But vinyl seems like a nice quick solution, at least at the prototyping stage, or to get something done quick.

could we see your machine ? I didn't know about this technique, no idea what the machine looks like, the process from stat to finish, how to apply it blah blah blah... and how much it costs to buy the machine and consumables, what the learning curve is like using the machine, etc etc...

 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113294 on: February 09, 2022, 03:52:55 am »
Durability is good to excellent. They use the same self adhesive vinyl for outdoor signage and vehicle signage. I've had some large vinyl letters cut on the same cutter sitting on the top of our rubbish bins for 4 years and they're still good. If it can put up with being outdoors 24 hours a day for 4 years and all the other things that bins have to put up with I'm pretty confident in its durability indoors on gently treated lab equipment. Sure, if you're rough enough it'll come off, but it's the same level of roughness that would scratch 2 part epoxy screenprinting that you'd use for a production run.

I have a theory that applying the self-adhesive vinyl to a freshly painted surface, when it's properly dry (24hrs) but still slightly 'green', improves the adhesion over applying to a fully cured (weeks) paint surface. I can't prove it without destructive testing, but it seems to work well.

I haven't felt the need to overcoat the finished things with clear lacquer but that's a possibility too - might need some experiments just to make sure that the lacquer didn't attack the vinyl or its adhesive.

The cutter I've got is a 2nd hand (isn't all my stuff) Silhouette Portrait (mark II, they're on mark III now) that I paid £50 for - which comes with its own software. The vinyl is in rolls or sheets, a 203mm x 5m roll like I use costs £8.59 and is available in every colour under the sun. I also have heat transfer vinyl for T-shirts, so I can make those too. As well as the self adhesive vinyl you need "transfer tape" which is transparent/translucent tape with a Post-It type adhesive on the back.

 You cut the vinyl out in the plotter, weed it (removing all the offcuts, bits that aren't part of your design), pick it up off the backing sheet with transfer tape, put the whole thing (cut out vinyl and transfer tape) over your target surface and burnish it down. The adhesive on the vinyl is much stronger than the one on the transfer tape, so you just peel off the transfer tape, rub down again for good measure and you're done.

Someone else's ebay photo of a Silhouette Portrait 2 and some supplies. The 13A UK plug should give some scale:



Obviously the cutter will cut other things too, including paper and cardboard. I've used it to make paper stencils for painting through. One of the things you can do is print things and then use the cutter to cut outlines around them - make your own stickers if the mood takes you. I've used it to cut mylar sheets (OHP films) to make homemade solder paste stencils from with good results. That's what I originally got it for, but it came with some scraps of vinyl and playing with those to make some small signs convinced me to get some proper stocks of vinyl and experiment. Labelling up equipment was one of those experiments and I'm satisfied with the results so far.

The only thing tricky about using it is getting the speed, pressure and depth of cut right. They're all adjustable and different materials need different settings. It matters most with things you want to only cut into, not cut the whole way through, such as cutting the self-adhesive vinyl but not its backing paper. The depth of cut also affects how tight a curve it can follow successfully (it uses a drag knife), which in turn affects how small a feature you can cut. Any text smaller than about 14pt in vinyl can be problematic. Thicker strong materials, like the 100um mylar I've used for solder paste stencils don't like small curves at all, I've stuck to rectangular stencil openings for that reason. You can cut relatively gentle curves in anything, I've cut out 75mm high letters out of quite thick card.

All in all, it has proved a very versatile and useful tool to have available.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113295 on: February 09, 2022, 04:25:57 am »
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...


Why am I still even thinking about it ..... ?   :palm:
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113296 on: February 09, 2022, 04:28:41 am »
I think I know where my interest comes from.....

I am of the era when Letraset came into common usage in Australia.  It was THE affordable way to create front panel artwork that looked decent.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113297 on: February 09, 2022, 04:37:50 am »
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...


Why am I still even thinking about it ..... ?   :palm:

Did I say you can also make your own T-shirts if you've got one?

« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 04:40:45 am by Cerebus »
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113298 on: February 09, 2022, 04:49:29 am »

Found this colour table that's more complete than most, and it does indeed say there can be a colour band for tempco !  And yellow is a valid colour... means 25ppm... twice better than my metal 1% resistors !  :o



.


I could never find a good, complete one - so I made my own.

Here, have a copy of the Cerebus colour code - including a printable pdf with E series numbers on.



But that's strange then, it does not add up with my resistor above does it ?
Mine has only 5 bands but does have tempco it seems ! At least that's the only to lake sense of the thing ?!  :-//

There are all sorts of variations and I only listed the commonest variants. It's quite normal to have a 4 band + tempco. "4 band" normally means two significant digits, a multiplier and a tolerance and when someone says "5 band" they are usually referring to a code with three significant figures, a multiplier and a tolerance. It's one of those things that one has to treat with a little context sensitivity which can be difficult when colours aren't as clear as they ought to be - I'be noticed a trend in recent years towards strong base body colours and weak band colours that make some resistors nigh impossible to decode without measuring them.

I'm more inclined to think that that yellow band is a reliability or failure rate indication rather than a temperature coefficient indicator - yellow as temp co is 25 ppm, as failure rate indicates 0.001%.  A quick look at the carbon film resistors listed on Digi Key's site shows that their typical temp cos are in the hundreds of ppm/*C, so I'm not even sure if it's possible to make a CF resistor that's only 25 ppm.  High reliability is a much more plausible explanation for the yellow band in my opinion.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #113299 on: February 09, 2022, 04:58:39 am »
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...
I do NOT need a vinyl cutter...


Why am I still even thinking about it ..... ?   :palm:

Did I say you can also make your own T-shirts if you've got one?


please stop.
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 


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