Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Zucca]

are best stored coiled

coiled yes, but one turn clockwise and the next one contra clock wise so it will remain flat when you uncoil it.

Oh I found it, I believe it is called Over-Under Cable Coiling Technique.

Once you learn this technique you will never ever do it in the wrong way.... I also do it with my water hose in my garden, yes my wife can't 

[Cerebus]

I did try just that 3 years ago when I filled this container of power cords in preparation for the house move. Didn't work. Ties are way to fragile and often broke/snapped while I was tightening them onto the cord. Those that managed to survive the tightening, snapped a short while later on their own once in the box, or when digging into the cords to pick one up. Maybe the French fries ties are more fragile than the Canadian ones, I don't know, but they are what they are... I think I used them none the less but not for power cords, rather for the container of plug packs, as their wire is very thin and flexible in comparison to a beefy power cord.  So IIRC these ties worked fine for the plug packs.. though I don't really know because 3 years later I have not yet had a reason to look at them yet. Maybe they have snapped by now.

I could use just a bit of solid core electrical wire, of appropriate gauge/section, that would not break., I guess.

Problem with power cords I find is that if you put just one little tie in the middle, it's not enough to keep the ends/loops tight together, so that makes them take more space, and makes them prone to get entangled to some degree. The crapper/stiffer the cord, the worse it gets.
Putting the cord in a zip bag would cure that problem. I don't have as many cords as you do so not a cost issue here.

A tip I picked up a few years ago, can't remember where, save the cardboard cores from your toilet rolls. To store a cable, fold it until it fits neatly inside said toilet roll core. Slide into core, job done. Also has the advantage that you can pack a lot, with the axis of the core vertical, in a box or tray. I'd take a picture of my spare mains cables box but getting it out is a ladder job and I'm not up for that just at the moment. Let's see what the interwebs has:



Not the best image, but good enough.

[Specmaster]

I did try just that 3 years ago when I filled this container of power cords in preparation for the house move. Didn't work. Ties are way to fragile and often broke/snapped while I was tightening them onto the cord. Those that managed to survive the tightening, snapped a short while later on their own once in the box, or when digging into the cords to pick one up. Maybe the French fries ties are more fragile than the Canadian ones, I don't know, but they are what they are... I think I used them none the less but not for power cords, rather for the container of plug packs, as their wire is very thin and flexible in comparison to a beefy power cord.  So IIRC these ties worked fine for the plug packs.. though I don't really know because 3 years later I have not yet had a reason to look at them yet. Maybe they have snapped by now.

I could use just a bit of solid core electrical wire, of appropriate gauge/section, that would not break., I guess.

Problem with power cords I find is that if you put just one little tie in the middle, it's not enough to keep the ends/loops tight together, so that makes them take more space, and makes them prone to get entangled to some degree. The crapper/stiffer the cord, the worse it gets.
Putting the cord in a zip bag would cure that problem. I don't have as many cords as you do so not a cost issue here.

A tip I picked up a few years ago, can't remember where, save the cardboard cores from your toilet rolls. To store a cable, fold it until it fits neatly inside said toilet roll core. Slide into core, job done. Also has the advantage that you can pack a lot, with the axis of the core vertical, in a box or tray. I'd take a picture of my spare mains cables box but getting it out is a ladder job and I'm not up for that just at the moment. Let's see what the interwebs has:



Not the best image, but good enough.

That is a good idea, what's even better is that its free 

[khs]

What do the Tek-experts here think about this Rohde & Schwarz 7623A scope?
Is it overpriced? Seller is asking EUR 550.- for it plus shipping.



And what is this on the backside?

He probably named it "Rohde & Schwarz" because of the "Rohde & Schwarz Vertriebs GmbH" sticker on the top of the chassis. I think R&S Vertriebs GmbH was a Tektronix oscilloscope distributor in West Germany during the 1960's and 1970's. It's a Tektronix 7623A unit. The connectors on the backside seem to be standard (at least I have them on my Tek 7613)

Estimated price according to 2021 Covid-19 vintage TE price inflation 
7A13 ~90 EUR  (relays may be defect and almost impossible to repair)
7A18 ~25 EUR  (75 MHz general-purpose amplifier)
7B53 ~30 EUR  (nice 100 MHz dual timebase)
Tek 7623A Mainframe: depending on its condition... the screen may have burn-ins due to misuse of beam intensity, ~40-70 EUR

Total price: ~185...210 EUR

It's a very heavy (~14 kg) and bulky unit so this may add some 20 EUR to the shipping.

So in conclusion: <180 EUR (good deal), =< 230 EUR (not good, not bad), > 250 EUR (unrealistic to be sold, yet hope dies last), 550 EUR (I smell Ferengi cerumen: Greed is eternal) 

Even it would be less expensive. I would not buy it.
It's a 7B53 AN, it means there is no readout. And there is no readout visible on the screen, so the mainframe may has option 01=no readout.
Without readout it is impossible to use e.g. the 7D12 (digital voltmeter) and/or the 7D15 (225 MHz counter).

[Cerebus]

I did try just that 3 years ago when I filled this container of power cords in preparation for the house move. Didn't work. Ties are way to fragile and often broke/snapped while I was tightening them onto the cord. Those that managed to survive the tightening, snapped a short while later on their own once in the box, or when digging into the cords to pick one up. Maybe the French fries ties are more fragile than the Canadian ones, I don't know, but they are what they are... I think I used them none the less but not for power cords, rather for the container of plug packs, as their wire is very thin and flexible in comparison to a beefy power cord.  So IIRC these ties worked fine for the plug packs.. though I don't really know because 3 years later I have not yet had a reason to look at them yet. Maybe they have snapped by now.

I don't like wire ties either. Much prefer hook & loop straps.  Home Depot has a cheap pack with around 50 gray and 50 black on two different rolls. They are around 6" long and you can cut them smaller they work just as good. Price is very reasonable but I don't remember how much. Only way to fly for me.

I bought a 25m reel of Velcro "one-wrap" a while ago and haven't looked back. It's the Velcro with fluffy on one side of the tape and a low-profile flat version of the hooks on the other. Like this, except that mine's black:


Click to see detail.

Just cut off a length to suit and wrap around whatever currently needs holding. For example, the cable on the back of my monitor:



Also buying a big reel (25m is not insignificant but isn't costly either) stops you from being conservative with it. I don't feel that I'm in danger of running out, or that using it is squandering it, so if I need it I'll just cut off a length.

[Vince]

I did try just that 3 years ago when I filled this container of power cords in preparation for the house move. Didn't work. Ties are way to fragile and often broke/snapped while I was tightening them onto the cord. Those that managed to survive the tightening, snapped a short while later on their own once in the box, or when digging into the cords to pick one up. Maybe the French fries ties are more fragile than the Canadian ones, I don't know, but they are what they are... I think I used them none the less but not for power cords, rather for the container of plug packs, as their wire is very thin and flexible in comparison to a beefy power cord.  So IIRC these ties worked fine for the plug packs.. though I don't really know because 3 years later I have not yet had a reason to look at them yet. Maybe they have snapped by now.

I don't like wire ties either. Much prefer hook & loop straps.  Home Depot has a cheap pack with around 50 gray and 50 black on two different rolls. They are around 6" long and you can cut them smaller they work just as good. Price is very reasonable but I don't remember how much. Only way to fly for me.

Hooks and what ?! What is he talking about.... checking picture.... oh, THAT stuff ! OK I see.... we call it " velcro " over here. 

Yes why not, that's an idea... much wider than a thin wire tie so might hold the thick and stiff/cheap 3 prong cables better together I guess. Reusable, easy / quick to take off, easy to put back on yeah... will see if I can find similar stuff here, and cost.  Easier and quicker to put on and remove, than elastic bands at least, I figure.

Well looks like I have several options then, will try them all see and which one what I prefer ! 

Regardless, will definitely get rid of half of these cables, way too many. That alone will make it all more manageable.
Then sort them in the 5 categories I mentioned, and put them into drawers I think rather than the presently deep plastic containers. Would make it easier to access I think.
Boxes we nice to quickly store stuff to move it into the  storage box then later into the new house, but now the move is done and the concern is not moving, but accessing the stuff easily, so I think I will prefer drawers. So will buy lots of them to store all my stuff...

[mnementh]

are best stored coiled

coiled yes, but one turn clockwise and the next one contra clock wise so it will remain flat when you uncoil it.

Oh I found it, I believe it is called Over-Under Cable Coiling Technique.

Once you learn this technique you will never ever do it in the wrong way.... I also do it with my water hose in my garden, yes my wife can't 

Sorry, I didn't remember to mention that part; to me it's second nature. I've done it that way since I was like 10; grand-dad drummed it into me from a young age that this was part of how you take care of rope, cables and hoses. Only thing better for them is keeping them on a self-retracting reel.

mnem
*hoser from way back*

[mnementh]

I bought a 25m reel of Velcro "one-wrap" a while ago and haven't looked back. It's the Velcro with fluffy on one side of the tape and a low-profile flat version of the hooks on the other. Like this, except that mine's black:

   Click to see detail.

Just cut off a length to suit and wrap around whatever currently needs holding. For example, the cable on the back of my monitor:



Also buying a big reel (25m is not insignificant but isn't costly either) stops you from being conservative with it. I don't feel that I'm in danger of running out, or that using it is squandering it, so if I need it I'll just cut off a length.

Yeah, I have that too; when I do a rack & stack I'll go through a roll or 3 in a afternoon. I mostly use it where I'm being paid for neat & tidy cabling; where it helps you be more productive than your billable hours. Stuff is magic inside a MDF/IDF; makes you look like a regular Twilight Sparkle master of organization.

I tend not to use the stuff where the cables in question might become a consumable supply; to sort all my collection of spare cables with it would cost me a bloody fortune that I'm not getting back at the end of the billing period. 

mnem
*skint dwagon*

[Vince]

I did try just that 3 years ago when I filled this container of power cords in preparation for the house move. Didn't work. Ties are way to fragile and often broke/snapped while I was tightening them onto the cord. Those that managed to survive the tightening, snapped a short while later on their own once in the box, or when digging into the cords to pick one up. Maybe the French fries ties are more fragile than the Canadian ones, I don't know, but they are what they are... I think I used them none the less but not for power cords, rather for the container of plug packs, as their wire is very thin and flexible in comparison to a beefy power cord.  So IIRC these ties worked fine for the plug packs.. though I don't really know because 3 years later I have not yet had a reason to look at them yet. Maybe they have snapped by now.

I could use just a bit of solid core electrical wire, of appropriate gauge/section, that would not break., I guess.

Problem with power cords I find is that if you put just one little tie in the middle, it's not enough to keep the ends/loops tight together, so that makes them take more space, and makes them prone to get entangled to some degree. The crapper/stiffer the cord, the worse it gets.
Putting the cord in a zip bag would cure that problem. I don't have as many cords as you do so not a cost issue here.

A tip I picked up a few years ago, can't remember where, save the cardboard cores from your toilet rolls. To store a cable, fold it until it fits neatly inside said toilet roll core. Slide into core, job done. Also has the advantage that you can pack a lot, with the axis of the core vertical, in a box or tray. I'd take a picture of my spare mains cables box but getting it out is a ladder job and I'm not up for that just at the moment. Let's see what the interwebs has:



Not the best image, but good enough.

Wow, just when I thought I had seen it all ! 

Looks like the kind of stuff you do at primary school when you cobble a present together for mother's day ! 

Will give it a try if just for fun !  Want to try everything and let Darwin tell me what to settle on.

I don't go through a lot of toilet rolls, so better start collecting them right now ! 
I guess I could ask the neighbours and friends to pass me their empty rolls, but I am too afraid they might think I am weirdo  and be scared of me forever ! 

However I do use a lot of kitchen paper towels, and they come on the same cardboard roll as toilet paper, except twice the length/height, so I can cut them in half and get two rolls for the price of one !

[Vince]

My preferred storage solution for such things - which includes all kinds of cables and plug-packs - is to put each set into a zip-lock bag.  You can then dump all these into any storage container you like and they will never get tangled.  Also far easier and quicker to sort through them - and FAR less likely to get damaged.

Here's a random sample from my unsorted  container.   

I used to do this as well... until my collections reached "fills a storage tote" size. When the pile is that dense, you can't see the trees for the forest and all definition of what the cables are gets lost in the silvery fog of the ziplock bags.



My solution is gardening ties. These come in a bulk container with a cutter as seen above. This means you get exactly the length you want, and if you need to tie a cable to a thing it belongs to, you're covered there too. They're usually available in a package of 100m of tie for $4-8, but I've even bought them from the Dollar Store.

mnem

I did try just that 3 years ago when I filled this container of power cords in preparation for the house move. Didn't work. Ties are way to fragile and often broke/snapped while I was tightening them onto the cord. Those that managed to survive the tightening, snapped a short while later on their own once in the box, or when digging into the cords to pick one up. Maybe the French fries ties are more fragile than the Canadian ones, I don't know, but they are what they are... I think I used them none the less but not for power cords, rather for the container of plug packs, as their wire is very thin and flexible in comparison to a beefy power cord.  So IIRC these ties worked fine for the plug packs.. though I don't really know because 3 years later I have not yet had a reason to look at them yet. Maybe they have snapped by now.

You need to go to a garden centre, they sell the same thing but with stronger wire inside. Designed to hold plants to stakes etc, that will not break, trust me, its very strong.

I did, but still crap    I guess it depends not so much on what type of store / place you got them from (garden center, H/W store, super market...), but more on your luck as to what kind of shit the particular place you happen to visit, decided to stock/flog you ! 
I bought a reel to hold my tomatoes, they were 2+ meters high and collapsing under the weight of all the tomatoes.

[mnementh]

Double or triple loop the tie for ornery cords; get leverage working in your favor. Works a treat.

mnem
*wired*

[Vince]

You have access to dragon grade stuff, of course it's going to be tough stuff !
I only have access to human crap stuff... even with 10 loops it's not gonna help, I tried. The problem is the knot at the end that breaks, not the loop(s) themselves. I could make 20 loops and still it would snap when I get to twist the tends together to tighten/lock the thing. If you don't twist it enough, it's not tight enough, so useless. If you twist it just one hair too much.. either it snaps right off, or it's fragile and will snap later on at the first opportunity.

I guess I am just not clever enough to use the stuff, so will try one of the other numerous techniques people mentioned.... at least one of them must be fool-proof enough that even a dumbass like me can have success with it. Experiments will tell...

[TERRA Operative]

After pulling my hair out for a couple hours, I finally got it!
I managed to write a boot disk for my 4145B Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer!

Was a process to get it all right, but once I figured out how to get all the steps in the process correct, it just worked.

I am a happy panda....   

I'll write up the (now simple) process in a seperate thread for posterity tomorrow after I wake up. It's a little late now......

[Vince]

It's branded " Yokogawa - HP "... even has a little modified " YHP" HP looking logo on it... so which is it  then ?

A Yokogawa TE rebranded by HP, or the other way around ? Or a joint venture and both participated in the design equally ? Don't see the latter happening, not very practical...

So it's a bit like the Sony - Tek  ultra expensive curve tracers then, designed by Sony not Tek, well I think !

[Robert763]

They change models on a pretty fast schedule:

https://www.reichelt.de/energiemessgeraete-c5938.html?&nbc=1

So I can't recommend a particular one, but I've bought one of  this breed some ten years ago, and it's pretty accurate with all types of load. Shows U, I, and real power.
Look for one that has a "electrical metering" chip inside, same kind of chip as your supplier of electrical energy uses in the "electronic" or "smart" meters today, these are very accurate by design.
From my experience, it's the cheap ones with less features that give you good accuracy.

Wow, they cost only 10 Euros !    Didn't realize these things were that cheap ! And for that price it looks decent, not too ugly. The 12 Euros one has a large LCD display, measures U / I / W / PF , has auto-ranging to give you the best possible resolution, down to 1mA and 1mW... what more could I ask for 12 Euros !

OK so these things are cheap ! No excuse then, I can get one right now, no need to post pone...

I've got one of those, ex Maplin, and a LEM clamp-on energy meter. I decided I needed wanted something better though so just bought this:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294716146283
Not much info on this model. I did find a datasheet and a manual for the 2020E  in German. It is a proper 3 phase meter and does harmonics up to the 49th. The LEM I already have has a 3Ph adaptor but it's just a voltage summing network so it only works on balanced loads like heaters and motors. The 2020 is  bit of a gamble but it's described as used so ebay will give me the money back if it's a lemon. A bargain at £50 if it works and is all there. 
Ampro have some connection with Beha and Fluke but seem to be the cheap end. Even so these were about £3k when new

[mansaxel]

Was a process to get it all right, but once I figured out how to get all the steps in the process correct, it just worked.

I actually made some progress at work too, managed to do a complete hands-off-console software install of FreeBSD on a pair of servers. All I needed was the iDRAC IP address. Even virtual media worked.

Also remembered: FreeBSD and OpenBSD do not share syntax for /etc/rc.conf .  That took some debugging to remember.

[med6753]

Often used cables/probes readily available on this rack. Easy access.



I'm not a fan of plastic bags, tie wraps, etc. Sorry, just not my thing. Prefer labelled food storage containers for seldom used cables/probes.



And yes, IEC cables seem to multiply like rabbits. 2 coffee containers full of them.



I do like the idea of using toilet paper rolls as cable/probe retainers. Very clever.   

[mnementh]

Was a process to get it all right, but once I figured out how to get all the steps in the process correct, it just worked.

I actually made some progress at work too, managed to do a complete hands-off-console software install of FreeBSD on a pair of servers. All I needed was the iDRAC IP address. Even virtual media worked.

Also remembered: FreeBSD and OpenBSD do not share syntax for /etc/rc.conf .  That took some debugging to remember.

Sounds to me like you're ready to go to work for AWS. You should give bd139 a ping. 

mnem
*ping*

[McBryce]

Entertaining video about building a sorting machine for coins. 
Please note the installation of motherboards on the wall of his lab. 

His machine is a bit misleading. The wooden section has no part in the sorting. The coins were sorted at the top before entering the "maze".

McBryce.

Not exactly true. While mostly interesting in a Pachinko Machine manner, the last bit of sorting is done in the plastic windows. There are 8 slots, 4 layers. Each layer routes its respective coins to the correct slot in order based on value.

Which is part of the sorting process; without doing so, that top "sorting/counting" section would just dump them into piles based on physical size rather than monetary value.

mnem
 

?? The metal sorter sorts them into 8 individual sections based on size. There are no Euro coins with the same physical size but with a different monetary value. After the wooden part they are still in exactly the same piles as the metal sorter sorted them. The metal sorter has even labels with monetary values to show this. So although two types of coins are using the same layer in the wooden section, there is no sorting involved.

McBryce.

[Vince]

Often used cables/probes readily available on this rack. Easy access.

Oh a custom wooden rack, I guess I should not be surprised eh  ! 

I am lazy, what we do here is just use these things,

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/produits/electricite-domotique/rallonge-multiprise-enrouleur-et-cable-electrique/moulure-goulotte-et-plinthe/goulotte/goulotte-de-cablage-basetech-bt-2226751-l-x-l-x-h-2000-x-45-x-65-mm-1-pc-s-gris-88284966.html


which you can just trim to length (it's sold as 2 meter long / 6'8" ) and get in various dimensions. They are normally used / sold to route electrical wires in electrical industrial cabinets, but they are just great to hold test leads. Lots of slots, cheap, trim to length as desired, it's a no brainer...
For some reason H/W store don't have them anymore... had to order on-line... the world is going downhill...

6 working days to get it... so hoping to receive it in 2 weeks max I hope. No choice but waiting, what can you do 

[mansaxel]

Sounds to me like you're ready to go to work for AWS. You should give bd139 a ping. 

There's this young whipper-snapper I know. He's  peering coördinator for Amazon EMEA. Basically "Boss of all external AWS IP connectivity in Europe", and 10 years my junior, at least. I can't go work for them unless I'm higher in the pecking order than him.

[BU508A]

Entertaining video about building a sorting machine for coins. 
Please note the installation of motherboards on the wall of his lab. 

His machine is a bit misleading. The wooden section has no part in the sorting. The coins were sorted at the top before entering the "maze".

McBryce.

Not exactly true. While mostly interesting in a Pachinko Machine manner, the last bit of sorting is done in the plastic windows. There are 8 slots, 4 layers. Each layer routes its respective coins to the correct slot in order based on value.

Which is part of the sorting process; without doing so, that top "sorting/counting" section would just dump them into piles based on physical size rather than monetary value.

mnem
 

?? The metal sorter sorts them into 8 individual sections based on size. There are no Euro coins with the same physical size but with a different monetary value. After the wooden part they are still in exactly the same piles as the metal sorter sorted them. The metal sorter has even labels with monetary values to show this. So although two types of coins are using the same layer in the wooden section, there is no sorting involved.

McBryce.

I think what mnem meant is: at first the coins are sorted by their physical size, but this does not correspond with their value.
The first sorting goes like this: 2€, 0.5€, 1€, 0.2€, 0.05€, 0.1€, 0.02€ and 0.01€.

Then the wooden maze comes into play and at the bottom the coins are sorted by their monetary value.

Just my 0.02€

[Vince]

They change models on a pretty fast schedule:

https://www.reichelt.de/energiemessgeraete-c5938.html?&nbc=1

So I can't recommend a particular one, but I've bought one of  this breed some ten years ago, and it's pretty accurate with all types of load. Shows U, I, and real power.
Look for one that has a "electrical metering" chip inside, same kind of chip as your supplier of electrical energy uses in the "electronic" or "smart" meters today, these are very accurate by design.
From my experience, it's the cheap ones with less features that give you good accuracy.

Wow, they cost only 10 Euros !    Didn't realize these things were that cheap ! And for that price it looks decent, not too ugly. The 12 Euros one has a large LCD display, measures U / I / W / PF , has auto-ranging to give you the best possible resolution, down to 1mA and 1mW... what more could I ask for 12 Euros !

OK so these things are cheap ! No excuse then, I can get one right now, no need to post pone...

I've got one of those, ex Maplin, and a LEM clamp-on energy meter. I decided I needed wanted something better though so just bought this:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294716146283
Not much info on this model. I did find a datasheet and a manual for the 2020E  in German. It is a proper 3 phase meter and does harmonics up to the 49th. The LEM I already have has a 3Ph adaptor but it's just a vltge summing nework so it only works on balanced loads like heaters and motors. The 2020 is  bit of a gamble but it's described as used so ebay will give me the money back if it's a lemon. A bargian a £50 if it works and is all there. 
Ampro have some connection with Beha and Fluke but seem to be the cheap end. Even so these were about £3k when new

Wow for that price you can't go wrong I guess, much better than 3K for sure 

Don't need a power house like though, luckily. A basic compact 10 Euros thingy will do just fine !    Will be much more compact as well...

[mansaxel]

A bargain at £50 if it works and is all there.

Indeed. This is cookie-with-red-jam territory.  Speaking of: Just scored a 9V DC PSU for SEK 10. Will do nicely with Middle Boy's guitar stomp boxes. Seller has some nice 16A 250V AC power relays, coil 24VDC, auction ending Friday, so will see if I win them too.

[Vince]

OK so I emptied my container of power cords and sorted everything.

Somehow going through all these cords one by one, sorting them into various piles, taking notes/statistics about each pile... was enjoyable, therapeutic, in some weird way. It's no longer a messy ugly container of cords... now it's organized, documented...I must have German blood from long ago, an appetite for ordnung...

So, at first I made the 5 piles / categories I mentioned earlier (first pic), but then I ended up with one of the piles being too big so I further divided that one into more sub-categories (second pic).

Stats:

Total number of cords 68, about 50/50 2/3 pronged.

2 Pronged

- Complete cables : x18
- Incomplete ones (W/O plug on appliance side, or with a PCB connector) : x17

3 Pronged

- Without plug : x2
- With a 90° plug on appliance side : x2
- With a straight plug on wall socket end of the cable : x16 (11 black + 5 grey)
- "Normal" cables, with a 90° plug on wall side :  x12 (x8 black + 3 grey + 1 short white one).


It's amazing how things appear so balanced ! I mean it's about 50/50 2 or 3 pronged, and within the 3 pronged category it's 50/50 between those with a wall plug that's straight, or 90°. furthermore, within the 2 pronged category, again it's 50/50 between complete and incomplete cords.

So that's pretty cool, I have a bit of everything.


So now that I have the stats and everything is neatly laid out on the bench, I can go through each pile and decided which ones I want to keep and which ones will get scrapped. Too many, some need to go and save me space and search time. So I need to come up with objective criteria to decide which to throw away... Maybe I can get rid of the shorter ones, and the ones that look really really old, or those that are stiffer than the average cable.

White one will go for sure, it's extremely short.

3 pronged ones, choice will be tough as they all look quality ones, pretty soft despite their thickness. 2 pronged ones however, they are all stiff/crap, brrr...


It's 22H15, normal people watch TV, but I find sorting my cables a less brain damaging activity, and more useful as well.