Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[factory]

Anyone in the US looking for a Yokogawa HP 4332A LCR meter, price seems reasonable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294681193424



David

[Cubdriver]

Spent some time last night troubleshooting the non-working, undocumented nixie panel meter in my 432B Power Meter - it would flash on briefly on initial power up, then go out.  Of course it's one of those 'replace this as a sub assembly; there is no documentation' things, with cramped, hand-taped boards that must be assembled to work and without any kind of silkscreen - great fun to work on.


Had to break it out of the enclosure with a couple of extender cards and a vise to hold things steady.  Rube Goldberg city:


Think it's a dead cap in the power supply; removing it got the display to turn back on.  Need to place a DK/Mouser order for some pieces-parts.

Piglet of course assisted with the troubleshooting.


-Pat

[AVGresponding]

For me, pizza comes from the freezer

Oh, I thought it was Deliveroo.

Too expensive; I'm a Yorkshireman.

For me, pizza comes from the freezer

What is going on here, have the Americans and their bad spelling driven you off discord?

Not in the least, the Norte Americanos have fled with their tails between their legs. I am currently conversing with our Northern European comrades

[Vince]

Today, if we're in spite of above are going to introduce the distinction, the VTVM is something that you want. The "need" function, bar the big wiggly meter, i.e. low burden precision measurement, is better handled by a DMM, hands down.

To soften that, there are not so many DMM that measure well above a few KHz (the [(hp)] 974 is an exception with it's 100KHz response; there are a few others, like the 8060A et. c. ) and the DC resistance of the 410B is about 121 MΩ, which is also pretty uncommon today.

My Metrix MX56 DMM is given for 100kHz as well. It uses an Analog Device RMS converter, an AD636.

Datasheet confirms bandwidth at -3dB is good for 100kHz for a 10mV input signal, but can go up to 1.5MHz for a stronger, 200mV signal.

[Cerebus]

For me, pizza comes from the freezer

Oh, I thought it was Deliveroo.

Too expensive; I'm a Yorkshireman.

Ah, yes, you're what my Northumberland Father would have described as a spendthift.

[Specmaster]

For me, pizza comes from the freezer

Oh, I thought it was Deliveroo.

Too expensive; I'm a Yorkshireman.

For me, pizza comes from the freezer

What is going on here, have the Americans and their bad spelling driven you off discord?

Not in the least, the Norte Americanos have fled with their tails between their legs. I am currently conversing with our Northern European comrades

Oh, I see, but seeing as it is New Year's Day, I didn't think it would be prudent to hop on discord and pee off SWMBO on day one 

[factory]

Spent some time last night troubleshooting the non-working, undocumented nixie panel meter in my 432B Power Meter - it would flash on briefly on initial power up, then go out.  Of course it's one of those 'replace this as a sub assembly; there is no documentation' things, with cramped, hand-taped boards that must be assembled to work and without any kind of silkscreen - great fun to work on.


Had to break it out of the enclosure with a couple of extender cards and a vise to hold things steady.  Rube Goldberg city:


Think it's a dead cap in the power supply; removing it got the display to turn back on.  Need to place a DK/Mouser order for some pieces-parts.

Piglet of course assisted with the troubleshooting.


-Pat

You weren't kidding, I knew it was a bought in DPM from Analogic, but hadn't noticed the manual classes it as non-repairable.


Wonder if the LED version of the DPM used in later 432B/Cs is variant of the HP 3431A/B/C series? I've got a Panaplex variant of the 432B on the way.

David

[Cubdriver]

Spent some time last night troubleshooting the non-working, undocumented nixie panel meter in my 432B Power Meter - it would flash on briefly on initial power up, then go out.  Of course it's one of those 'replace this as a sub assembly; there is no documentation' things, with cramped, hand-taped boards that must be assembled to work and without any kind of silkscreen - great fun to work on.


Had to break it out of the enclosure with a couple of extender cards and a vise to hold things steady.  Rube Goldberg city:


Think it's a dead cap in the power supply; removing it got the display to turn back on.  Need to place a DK/Mouser order for some pieces-parts.

Piglet of course assisted with the troubleshooting.


-Pat

You weren't kidding, I knew it was a bought in DPM from Analogic, but hadn't noticed the manual classes it as non-repairable.


Wonder if the LED version of the DPM used in later 432B/Cs is variant of the HP 3431A/B/C series? I've got a Panaplex variant of the 432B on the way.

David

I have a Panaplex version of the meter in my repair queue.  Might have a go at it later in case it's a similar issue.  Have been using Photoshop in an effort to figure out the board wiring.

-Pat

[mansaxel]

This is not "an extraordinary claim, contrary to what the rest of the world believes"; it is, as I said, common knowledge. Well, okay; as we have lots of internet evidence to the contrary, I suppose it is what used to be common knowledge.

It is very uncommon to me, and indeed contrary to my sources.  Looking at the affair from the country who puts strange things on flat dough and bakes it, it is flippin' obvious that you're barking up the wrong tree, even if there's a grain of something-that-coulda-been in it; the "Pizza effect" in sociology is describing the fact that a practice can be reintroduced in the very country  it originated from by emigrates who return. 

In the pizza case, the example creating the name is Italians who had emigrated to the US returning to Italy as visitors after World War 1 and reintroducing the dish in other parts of Italy than Napoli.  This does not mean that the practice of baking flat bread with cheese and other condiments was invented in the US, it only degenerated there.  There are European proto-examples of flat-bread-with-condiments that are several hundred years older than the USA.

The claim you made goes a bit further than that, if not in carefully edited hard facts definitely in brag; which is what made Cerebus and me react. 

I think Unesco did nail the coffin shut, though, as they made Pizza making Napoli style an immaterial heritage.

I know NY is proud of its imported and altered food, and I consider it one of the very few places I'd tolerate if I had to live in the US. But it is neither infallible nor the source of Pizza.

[Neper]

This does not mean that the practice of baking flat bread with cheese and other condiments was invented in the US, it only degenerated there.

YMMD
 

[BU508A]

Looking for suggestions... I know none of us here usually need motivation to acquire more TEA, but I've been assessing my lab over the last few days and have decided that the obvious missing device on my bench is a VTVM. What VTVM would you guys recommend? Keeping in mind - It shouldn't be the size of a truck. It shouldn't be some rarity that goes for silly money. It should be relatively easy to find in Europe. It should be a device where the schematics and parts are readily available.

McBryce.

VTVM? You called? 

I do recommend the Rohde & Schwarz ones. In general, there are two models:
- The URI BN 1050
- The URU BN 1080

Both aren't that rare, they pop up occasionly in the german ebay or ebay Kleinanzeigen.

As always: NAWTS

[bitseeker]

Happy New Year, or almost new year, to everyone (depending on location)!

Hope you're doing well, or as well as can be under the circumstances. It's been a rough year. Lost some friends and family, and work has been too busy, but I hope 2022 will be better.

What are your goals, TEA or otherwise, for 2022? Mine are to acquire less TE, shrink my repair queue, and spend more time in the forum.

(And catch more typos before submitting a post.)

Mine is to stay at the same address for more than 11 months for a change. And to not start any more international incidents. 

mnem
*heeds Hypnos' siren call*

That's a good plan, indeed. Regarding staying put, have all your your lab goodies come out to play or are they still in storage?

[bitseeker]

My objectives for 2022:

My entire adult life I was unfamiliar with hospitals. Then in 2021 I was in the hospital at least 5 times on an inpatient or outpatient basis. Objective for 2022 is to never be in another one just as in the past.

Get repair cue cleaned up. It's not large but it is complex.

Good health can be a tough objective, but certainly the most important one. On that note, it's time for me to get back to non-holiday eating habits.

[bitseeker]

And finally, the HP 334A Distortion Analyser will get a final tweak and adjustment, and will NOT be sold... That will go on the shelf of using to be used for useful uses.

That last phrase sounds like some very TEAppropriate justification to me.

Next up after all that will be to finalise the PCB designs for the two common Dallas NVRAM modules as used in Tek gear to revive a TDS744A scope (also to be put on the 'for sale' pile), and keep my TDS784C scope running all happy.
I'll release the gerbers for those for whoever is interested.

Cool! Lots of things use various Dallas NVRAM modules. I've seen a couple of projects here and there on the forum. Thanks for making yours available, too.

[bitseeker]

Spent some time last night troubleshooting the non-working, undocumented nixie panel meter in my 432B Power Meter - it would flash on briefly on initial power up, then go out.  Of course it's one of those 'replace this as a sub assembly; there is no documentation' things, with cramped, hand-taped boards that must be assembled to work and without any kind of silkscreen - great fun to work on.


Had to break it out of the enclosure with a couple of extender cards and a vise to hold things steady.  Rube Goldberg city:


Think it's a dead cap in the power supply; removing it got the display to turn back on.  Need to place a DK/Mouser order for some pieces-parts.

Piglet of course assisted with the troubleshooting.


-Pat

Neat. I don't recall seeing when you got this one (probably one of the myriad posts that have flown by). I have the "A" model with the analog meter.

When you get it up and running, I'd be interested to see how stable the readings are. I get some drift on the more sensitive ranges.

[Cubdriver]

Spent some time last night troubleshooting the non-working, undocumented nixie panel meter in my 432B Power Meter - it would flash on briefly on initial power up, then go out.  Of course it's one of those 'replace this as a sub assembly; there is no documentation' things, with cramped, hand-taped boards that must be assembled to work and without any kind of silkscreen - great fun to work on.

Neat. I don't recall seeing when you got this one (probably one of the myriad posts that have flown by). I have the "A" model with the analog meter.

When you get it up and running, I'd be interested to see how stable the readings are. I get some drift on the more sensitive ranges.

Oh, it's been in the queue for a few years now, and based on the no pictures in the folder, I don't think I ever mentioned it.  Recently got a working 478A sensor and cable, and decided to try to get the meters - this one and the one with the Panaplex readout - a 432C - into operational status.

-Pat

[bitseeker]

Ah, OK. Good to know I'm keeping up. I'll be watching the progress on the B and C. I don't know if an A model will be of any help, but I'm happy to check stuff if/when it is.

[GreyWoolfe]

   Oi... spinning rust is sooooo slow... 

Currently updating my old gaming rig (Athlon FX-8350 8-Core 4.0GHz/16GB DDR3-667/XFX RX580 Black Edition) which has been in the trailer unused for 2 years to the latest Win10, so I can have something to peek in here on while I let my son use my i7 laptop on his new 27in/1mS/IPS eSports monitor for his gaming sessions.

Well, and cuz I could. 

mnem
*cellar-dweller dwagon again*

Don't be too hard on it, it is after all having to do 2 years of updates.

Windows updates has reminded me that my main computer is not compatible with Win11.  I have decided that the fight to get around TPM is not worth it.  For the past couple of weeks I have been playing with Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.2 on an old laptop and desktop.  I quite like it and I like the way it handles updates.  I have a long way to go to learn command line structure but that's OK.  Testing Mint on my Lenovo Thinkcenter M93P, core I7 4990, 32 Gb ram and 512 Gb SSD shows no hardware compatibility issues.  I just have one thing to figure out migrating Thunderbird with my 3 email accounts to another computer so I can do the upgrade and move email back over and then I will be windows free.  Unfortunately, Mrs. GreyWoolfe's computer must remain a Windows computer because she does occasionally do work from home and it took an act of God and 7 Hail Marys to get their idiot of a sysadmin to get a VPN and RDP session set up so she can log into her work computer remotely.  She doesn't want to do that dance again and insists I leave her computer alone.  We will see what happens when Win10 hits EOL and /or her computer slips its mortal coil.

Also I want to wish all you reprobates here a happy and healthy New Year.  This year has been full of challenges for me and I am hoping and praying 2022 will be better and not 2020 (part)2.

Naaahhh... I'm doing the 20H2 Update manually from the MS media download server (1Gb synchronous FTTH FTW ), skipping all the crap in between. However, it has failed to complete once already... there may be a critical patch it needs to be able to complete.

mnem
 

Went and looked and saw my system was updated to 21H2 and I don't remember that happening.  Either M$ slipped it in or my mind simply slipped.  Every update I have done on both linux boxes, I have known they were available and was able to choose when to do them.  Also all updates have occurred without issue and I have nowhere near 1Gb FTTH.  I can't escape windows.  I still work in a windows environment, both company and clients, so there is no escape for me.  The more I dink around, the more I think that the switch will work for me.  I am not throwing away my windows 10 discs with my volume license so I can always revert back if necessary.

[mnementh]

This is not "an extraordinary claim, contrary to what the rest of the world believes"; it is, as I said, common knowledge. Well, okay; as we have lots of internet evidence to the contrary, I suppose it is what used to be common knowledge.

It is very uncommon to me, and indeed contrary to my sources.  Looking at the affair from the country who puts strange things on flat dough and bakes it, it is flippin' obvious that you're barking up the wrong tree, even if there's a grain of something-that-coulda-been in it; the "Pizza effect" in sociology is describing the fact that a practice can be reintroduced in the very country  it originated from by emigrates who return. 

In the pizza case, the example creating the name is Italians who had emigrated to the US returning to Italy as visitors after World War 1 and reintroducing the dish in other parts of Italy than Napoli.  This does not mean that the practice of baking flat bread with cheese and other condiments was invented in the US, it only degenerated there.  There are European proto-examples of flat-bread-with-condiments that are several hundred years older than the USA.

The claim you made goes a bit further than that, if not in carefully edited hard facts definitely in brag; which is what made Cerebus and me react. 

I think Unesco did nail the coffin shut, though, as they made Pizza making Napoli style an immaterial heritage.

I know NY is proud of its imported and altered food, and I consider it one of the very few places I'd tolerate if I had to live in the US. But it is neither infallible nor the source of Pizza.

Wow... honestly, I had no idea. When I was kid, even a young adult, it was common knowledge (and I do usually frequent the Italian  neighborhoods in most cities I've lived in out of love for all forms of pasta) that pizza with tomato sauce and cheese as we now know it was invented by immigrants. I never questioned it since. 

This is not "an extraordinary claim, contrary to what the rest of the world believes"; it is, as I said, common knowledge. Well, okay; as we have lots of internet evidence to the contrary, I suppose it is what used to be common knowledge.

In my entire experience so far, only you have claimed a New York origin (while 'schooling' an Italian on the proper origin no less) and cite no more evidence than "Everybody knows" and anyone who disagrees is too lazy/ignorant to do their own research.

Ah, forget I brought it up. I ought to know by now that disagreeing with "the Dragon" says, no matter how misguided, is a fruitless exercise. You're right, of course pizza comes from New York.

C, you're right.  Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Thanks for bothering to do your own research, and bringing it here. I've been a bit busy and just couldn't be arsed with what I really thought was just another pointless argument. 

I'll admit I was a bit cheesed off by the "Citation Required" demand; as I stated, I've been mugged entirely too many times by lazy fuckwits just looking for something to troll me with & I'm not going to defend that any further. If you want a citation from me, you can ask civilly or kiss my scaly dwagon arse.

I really had no intention of stirring the shit this time... particularly I was not trying to poke the earth-pig. As you've said before, it's not like you haven't been known to take things of context and blow them out of proportion; which I really thought this was.

Given that, I'm going to let the deliberately incendiary bloviation above pass and chalk it up to "Oh, that's just his way; 'es mostly 'armless."

Cheers to all whose evening was inflicted with this inadvertent "stirring of the shit"; I definitely stepped in my own mess this time.

mnem
*initiating STFU maneuver*

[0culus]

Honestly, fuck windows past 7. The laptop I have windows on for lab tasks is always restarting itself for updates. Today, it reboots and I get a big splash screen "We recommend Windows 11 for your PC!", of course filled with dark UI patterns to try to force you to go through with it. Took like 3 skips to get back to my desktop. Fuckers.   

[vk6zgo]

Ummm... you do know that pizza pie as it is now known is not an actually an Italian dish, but rather originated as street vendor/micro-eatery food invented by Italian immigrants in New York City?

[Citation Required] 

Required...? pfffft. Do your own research. 

You make an extraordinary claim, contrary to what the rest of the world believes, and when someone asks for some sort of proof you say "Do your own research"? Have you joined Q-Anon? All it takes is one reference to a URL that someone would regard as well-sourced and believable.

I don't hold with "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", but some plausable evidence would help to convince us that you're not just blowing smoke up our collective arses.

What they made in Italy "back in the day" bears very little resemblance to what we call pizza nowadays, which is a New York City invention. This is pretty common knowledge.

Agreed, with the qualification that "we" is New Yorkers. So the debate isn't the origin of pizza, but "Whether that thing they make in New York and call a pie can be called pizza".

Flatbread cooked from raw with a topping of cheese has existed at least since the time of the Achaemenid Empire and is almost certainly older. The canonical cheese and tomato pizza and such being called pizza has been around in Italy since at least the 18th century when there was only a New York province. The first New York Pizzeria opened in 1905, at which time there was already a pizzeria in Naples that had existed since before 1889, with a pizzaiolo so famous that in 1889 the King and Queen made a special visit to it* and the Margherita got its name. There's evidence of the Sicillian style deep pan pizza being common from the 17th century in Sicily.

*"Esiste poi la vera storia della pizza Margherita che non possiamo tralasciare: Raffaele Esposito, il pizzaiolo dell’Ottocento napoletano più famoso, viene incaricato di far assaggiare alla Regina Margherita in visita a Napoli nel 1889 con suo marito il re Umberto I, proprio la pizza napoletana."

FFS, C... pizza is itself an Italian-American-English word; supposedly a bastardization of pita.

Everything else here is a matter of evolution... and when I was a kid, we didn't say "New-York-style pizza" we fricking said "pizza". And it meant the same thing pretty close to everywhere in the developed world; the only variation being thin or thick crust. "New-York-style pizza" is a contrivance of the "Politically Correct"-ness movement we generally abhor in here. 

This is not "an extraordinary claim, contrary to what the rest of the world believes"; it is, as I said, common knowledge. Well, okay; as we have lots of internet evidence to the contrary, I suppose it is what used to be common knowledge.

Of course, what is "common knowledge" and what is "internet evidence" often has very little to do with fact... so I again invite you to do your own research. I'm a wee bit busy ATM. When I get around to it, I may or may not follow up.

"Citation required"...? No, thank you; too many lazy-bastard trolls out there use that to demand that they be spoon-fed proof, only so they can nit-pick it to death. "Citation requested"... maybe. If I have time.

mnem
*currently un-binning the ToD*

In "Nineteen Hundred & Seventy Four" (I figure I'm now old enough to talk like my Great-Great-Grandfather), when I visited Roma (the Italian one, not the bush town in Queensland), the things they sold as Pizzas were baked in a rectangular tray, & served as strips.
They were also delicious!

Not a round Pizza to be seen!

Off topic, I was surprised to see the extent to which Italians had embraced Wiener Schnitzels, which were usually sold in the same shops.

[mnementh]

...if what he really needed was a VTVM, or if one of the more recent Dual-FET sand-state meters might be a better choice;

There, in the rest of the world exists this strange distinction between "want" and "need" that we need not entertain in here. 

Today, if we're in spite of above are going to introduce the distinction, the VTVM is something that you want. The "need" function, bar the big wiggly meter, i.e. low burden precision measurement, is better handled by a DMM, hands down.

To soften that, there are not so many DMM that measure well above a few KHz (the [(hp)] 974 is an exception with it's 100KHz response; there are a few others, like the 8060A et. c. ) and the DC resistance of the 410B is about 121 MΩ, which is also pretty uncommon today.

LOL... I wasn't raising it as an either/or; more like "maybe a dual-FET would fit your whole dealio better". Ideally, of course, we would all have budget and room for multiple examples of all such TE; that was where I was going with this comment:

"Of course, once you get to a certain point in your TEA habit, certain things become very noticeable in your collection more by absence and tradition than by absolute need; I feel a VTVM falls squarely in that category."

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Perhaps this may provide the answer, but as far as I can see it is not definitive.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/263732/where-does-pizza-pie-originate

Don't be foolish, we have the definitive word from the Dragon, there is no need for further debate. It was indeed truly genuinely stupid of me to challenge any claim from him and expect anything good to come of it.

Harsh words..... he might just be yanking on your chain of course, he is known, like you, for your dry humour. Other than that, I have zero idea personally. I didn't use Google, I used DuckDuckGo and that doesn't seem as good as Google me, but perhaps Google might just hold the key. Try this out, does it help?

https://www.crustkingdom.com/why-is-pizza-called-pie/

I WISH I were being that clever; nope, just utterly ignorant on this point. Full stop.

Thanks for trying to throw me a lifeline; not sure I deserved it this time.

mnem
Oh, look... more research.

[vk6zgo]

For me, pizza comes from the freezer

Reminds me of the joke where little Billy asks his mother "Where do I come from?"

'Uh-oh!" thinks Mum, who embarks upon the whole classic "birds & the bees" lecture.

"Gee!", says Billy, somewhat taken aback, "Johnny at school comes from England!"

[Specmaster]

My objectives for 2022:

My entire adult life I was unfamiliar with hospitals. Then in 2021 I was in the hospital at least 5 times on an inpatient or outpatient basis. Objective for 2022 is to never be in another one just as in the past.

Get repair cue cleaned up. It's not large but it is complex.

Good health can be a tough objective, but certainly the most important one. On that note, it's time for me to get back to non-holiday eating habits.

That's a good idea, unfortunately for me, that will be a little longer before I can do that, I always seem to go heavy-handed with the old mince pies, when the shops reduce them, I'm a sucker and buy 3 or 4 boxes and its only me and SWMBO who eats them, so we still the best part of 3 boxes to get through