Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

@Vince
You really do make this hard work don't you.
1/ I never insisted you change to a BNC so lets get that correct shall we, I suggested that was perhaps the best option based on experience.
2/ You need to learn the differance between advice and an instruction. Advice you can decide yourself whether you accept it or not. An instruction is something that you must do or else there are going to be consequences, i.e., if a policeman tells you to stop, then you must stop, or else.

Now what you are actually doing in a perverse way is exactly what I suggested, and considering your original problem was that the centre contact was crusty and also one half was not making any contact. This was mainly due to the fact that either the plug in lead had been pulled sideways thus bending that contact, or the plug in lead had been left plugged in and over time the weight of the cable had slowly been bending that contact.

Either way, the option that you appear to have chosen is going to greatly increase that risk of the same problem from occuring again in double quick time because are adding the effect of a lever, or a crowbar because it is multiplying that identical force on the centre pin many times over.

But hey, its your equipment and as it always was, your decision about the way to solve the problem, I wish you good luck with it.

You are twisting things a bit     Not an instruction yeah but uh.... an advice hammered and worded so that if I don't follow it I am the stupidest thing on earth and the instrument will explode in my face or burn the lab to the ground and the instrument will be useless, is more than just a suggestion to me 

And it still does not take into account that WHY the heck I would I have to replace the socket with a BNC and ruin the instrument's looks and originality, UNLESS I absolutely need to ?! Adapter is cheap so why not give that a chance first ? If the socket and when the socket dies for good and it keeps me from using the instrument, well yes of course I will have to consider replacing it with a BNC socket.. but why insist so much on doing it right now, when it can be done ANYTIME, when it does become worthwhile ? Doe snot compute to me sorry. Why wold you want to replace your old kidneys that work fine, just because they are old ? You can always replace them later if need be, why replace them right now ?! Nope. 

Feels like I am talking to Dwagon, feels strange...

Anyhow you said it was just gentle advice so advice taken gently, thanks...
If the socket fails permanently the day I insert the adapter in it for the first time, at least I will think of you for sure !! 

[xrunner]

Interesting observation - nothing more ...

I'm measuring the inside dimensions of the Boonton buttons and found something interesting, well to me anyway. I found that the shaft of the switch doesn't actually go into the center of the button dimensionally from top to bottom. It does from side-to-side though.

You can clearly see from the picture that the shafts of the switches are biased a bit to the top of the opening in the front bezel. The two "guides" at the top of the inside of the buttons sit to the sides of the switch shaft, and the two on the bottom sit under the shaft. This is needed so the buttons are aligned with the opening in the bezel.

I wonder what led to that design? I'd think the mechanical designer would have aligned the switch assembly so the shafts were in the center of the openings, and the buttons would have been designed to fit on the switch shaft centered horizontally and vertically. Perhaps there was a slight mistake in the mechanical design of the unit and they asked the button manufacturer to make the buttons as such.

Or, am I thinking too much and there is a good reason for it? Anyone have any ideas?

The answer is lost in time I suppose ...

Happy new year's eve!

Note: The green "half-button" is for test fitting purposes - I need to use up that roll of filament (I am not color blind) 

[ch_scr]

Vince, if your main problem with a BNC is the looks (which I can understand), but you also want to have a usable piece of TE (which it seems like) there might be a third option. Not the cheapest, but one that does tend to both goals: replace it with a different, modern RF connector that mounts flush to the face. You will probably have to make yourself an special-to-BNC cable to use it, but still. Depending on the size of the old connector, maybe I would maybe suggest an LEMO "ERN.1S.250.CTL". The mating plug is a "FFC.1S.250". These should go in a 12mm hole in the front panel. If the hole is smaller than that, go for a "ERN.00.250.CTL" (7mm hole) and a "FFC.00.250" plug. Looking at the price  , I maybe should have mentioned that before Christmas, now you'll have to wait for your birthday 

[tautech]

.....................
Happy new year's eve!

Happy 2022 !
Yep we're already 4hrs into it and hitting the scratcher early as us old folks do these days allows us to be up before others have even got to experience their New Years day hangovers. 

[Specmaster]

@Vince
I think you will find that it is you who has been misunderstanding what I have said about the BNC socket. I refer you to the quoted post below and as you will see I never insisted on you replacing the Belling-Lee socket with a BNC socket, merely said this In the past, I have replaced similar sockets with panel mounted BNC sockets with no noticeable drop in performance, but a significant increase in the durability of the socket.

The insistence is a figment of your imagination, and I also see that others have either made similar suggestions or endorsed my recommendation, which is a fact that seems to have escaped your attention. So am I to take it that you just take personal exception to anything that I or mnementh put forward for your consideration then 

The adaptors I linked to will plug into the existing socket on the Metrix and provide a BNC or F type without altering the unit.
The center contact of the Metrix probably just needs a clean and maybe a gentle squeeze together of the split.

Thanks for actually be willing to help, rather than judge, that's refreshing. If only they could all be like you, how friendly and productive TEA would be, not to mention the SNR would skyrocket.

I grabbed my LED torch light and threw some serious Lumens into that socket, I noticed that the two halves of the split inner core  were actually joining at their very bottom, it's in fact one single piece of metal. Therefore it did not make sense that one half was giving me a signal and not the other. Had to be bad connection. And when I saw the staggering amount of crust covering 100% of all surfaces in that socket, all black in there, thick layer.... it further reinforced the hypothesis.  So I did what I could to clean it. Attacked it first with a tiny flat screw driver to break up most of the black crust, blew some human air in there to force the debris out.  Then flooded the socket with contact cleaner / Deoxit, agitated it with the stiff hair of a nylon brush. That loosened the remaining crap. Then using the screw driver again,  I managed to shove a kitchen paper towel deep into the socket to dry it and take all the debris out.

Now looks soooooooooo much better ! Shiny and clean, almost like new. What I thought was "patina" from a distance, was in fact just crust and nothing else.

Fired up the scope and generator, now works much better.....

Will order a BNC adapter and see how it goes, but should do it I think...

Vince, most of would have told you the same thing as Robert did, so I'm guessing, the others made the same mistake I did, assumed that A/ you were aware that the 2 halves are joined at the base, B/ assumed that you had tried to clean the socket and C/ squeezed the 2 split ends closer together, gently with a pair of long nose pliers.

In the past, I have replaced similar sockets with panel mounted BNC sockets with no noticeable drop in performance, but a significant increase in the durability of the socket. 

[mnementh]

   Made some progress on the Boonton replacement button design. All the exterior dimensions are correct at this time.

Nothing done about the inside yet which is going to have to fit tight but not too tight on the button shaft. The inside design may or may not not be the same way the original is. Really makes no difference as long as it fits well, doesn't pop off, but can be pulled off if needed.

 

Looking good. Two-distance chamfer is your friend. 



About time to pop the lid on your nozzle stash for something .20 or maybe... even smaller. 

mnem
So we asked the computer... "What should we do...?"

But it just kept giving this insane advice:

like...

"You need teeny little eyes
for reading teeny little print;
Just like you need tiny little hands
for milking mice..."

[mnementh]

Not much accomplished today. To start, does anyone have a recommendation for a decent RG45 crimper and punchdown tool?  I know I had a cheapie set.  Maybe more, since I did find two cutting/stripper tools for Ethernet/phone cable. The budget says no to professional grade in this case, but I do need something that is not going to cause grief later.  Of course, I discover that I have no tool when I needed it yesterday 

   My bit of success is more in the dwagon tinkering category. 

This is a photo of the internals of a space heater.  It is getting used in my future lab space until I can install a proper baseboard heater, as well as unfreezing (thawing would be correct, but mis-use of the language makes an exclamation point when it is COLD outside) the spa mentioned in an earlier post.  In the photo, it is possible to see that the end bell is wearing into the rotor, causing enough friction to stop the fan from rotating.  The copper bushing in the end bell has worn down too far, allowing the contact.  It is only on this one side, due to the direction that the fan is pushing the air.  The solution was to ream out a steel #6 washer to fit on the rotor.  A #8 washer would be too sloppy a fit.  I did lubricate it with a slight bit of bicycle grease.  The question is how long it will be until something else wears down...  It works for now!

It been MacGyverfied...!   

Well-done; I'm pretty sure you'll get a lot more life than you expected of that repair. I've done exactly that on more refrigerator fans than I can count.

https://www.amazon.ca/Trendnet-TC-PDT-Punch-Krone-Blade/dp/B0000AZK4D/

As for the punchdown tool... I've used the TrendNet branded stuff as provided by an employer; while nowhere near the fit/finish of my GreenLee, still more than adequate on the business end for daily use. If you need the Krone blade, you'll need your flush-cutters too; you don't get the scissors-bit unless you pay the big bucks or take a gamble on the cheap China-Direct stuff.

   

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Ratchet-Modular-Plug-Crimper-and-Impact-Punch-Down-Tool-with-110-Blade-CE180608A/

You might want to take a look at the Commercial Electric branded stuff at your local Home Despot; they have a kit for ~US$40 I was thinking of myself a while back, but the punchdown is 110/66 only. But at least with these, you get the advantage of being able to eyeball it in person before you plunk down your money.

mnem
 

[tonyalbus]

Happy New yesr

[med6753]

Holy crap, I can't believe some of what I'm reading here. It's actually getting borderline ridiculous. 

This Heath OL-1 did not originally have that BNC connector. Someone in the past installed it.

Did it "ruin" the "originality" of the instrument? In strictest terms yes. Does this Smurf give one wit? Absolutely not. But believe it or not some dumb ass did suggest that perhaps I might want to remove it and patch the hole. Yea, right. Not happening. 

Did it actually increase the usability of the instrument? Absolutely which is why it was installed.  In my mind that beats "originality" and this Smurf is not running a museum. 

P.S. Most museum pieces look great but don't freaking work. My stuff may have some rough edges but it all works. 

[mnementh]

...Feels like I am talking to Dwagon, feels strange...

Anyhow you said it was just gentle advice so advice taken gently, thanks...
If the socket fails permanently the day I insert the adapter in it for the first time, at least I will think of you for sure !! 

Yeah, with all due respect V... keep me the eff outta this. 

Your misery here is entirely of your own creation, and when your head explodes because you hadda do it your way and it still falls apart, I don't want any gittin' on me. 

mnem

I'll just be over here in the corner, watchin' the show...

[0culus]

I mean, it's fairly common on older Tek letter series plug ins to get rid of the UHF connector and replace it with BNC. Because it's a shite connector and annoying to use. Either that or install adapters. That's what I did for my Type O op-amp plug in.

[med6753]

I mean, it's fairly common on older Tek letter series plug ins to get rid of the UHF connector and replace it with BNC. Because it's a shite connector and annoying to use. Either that or install adapters. That's what I did for my Type O op-amp plug in.

Tek fully converted to BNC in 1963. My Type 535A was built after that date so it's BNC. But I've got plenty of stuff with the UHF connector such as two Type CA plug-in's, a Type 310A, and a Type 503A. I use the UHF to BNC adapters.

[med6753]

And let's not talk about GR connectors. What a nightmare they are. 

[mnementh]

      Interesting observation - nothing more ...

I'm measuring the inside dimensions of the Boonton buttons and found something interesting, well to me anyway. I found that the shaft of the switch doesn't actually go into the center of the button dimensionally from top to bottom. It does from side-to-side though.

You can clearly see from the picture that the shafts of the switches are biased a bit to the top of the opening in the front bezel. The two "guides" at the top of the inside of the buttons sit to the sides of the switch shaft, and the two on the bottom sit under the shaft. This is needed so the buttons are aligned with the opening in the bezel.

I wonder what led to that design? I'd think the mechanical designer would have aligned the switch assembly so the shafts were in the center of the openings, and the buttons would have been designed to fit on the switch shaft centered horizontally and vertically. Perhaps there was a slight mistake in the mechanical design of the unit and they asked the button manufacturer to make the buttons as such.

Or, am I thinking too much and there is a good reason for it? Anyone have any ideas?

The answer is lost in time I suppose ...

Happy new year's eve!

Note: The green "half-button" is for test fitting purposes - I need to use up that roll of filament (I am not color blind) 

IME, stacked switch assemblies like this (particularly ones with the canceling bar through a row of switches) are produced under contract as a complete assembly, including buttons. The reasons for that offset are probably going to be a question for the switch manufacturer, not the equipment manufacturer.

I'd guess a high likelihood it was done to place the screw-holes, which are a part of of the switch housing, at whatever location the equipment manufacturer specifies in the contract, or to similarly locate the the legs of the switches. That way they just make a minor adjustment to a molded plastic bit, rather than redesigning the switch housing which is metal and many fab steps involved in moving a hole a mm or two.

mnem
 

[ch_scr]

I mean, it's fairly common on older Tek letter series plug ins to get rid of the UHF connector and replace it with BNC. Because it's a shite connector and annoying to use. Either that or install adapters. That's what I did for my Type O op-amp plug in.

Tek fully converted to BNC in 1963. My Type 535A was built after that date so it's BNC. But I've got plenty of stuff with the UHF connector such as two Type CA plug-in's, a Type 310A, and a Type 503A. I use the UHF to BNC adapters.

I'll cut Vince some slack here, since the change from a non-protruding to a protruding type connector is quite a visual change to the front of an instrument. Still, when asking myself "Would you notice the change, if you did not know the before-state?" the honest answer is "Probably not" 
Edit: Also, the GR-connector is at least somewhat functionally reasonable 

[0culus]

I mean, it's fairly common on older Tek letter series plug ins to get rid of the UHF connector and replace it with BNC. Because it's a shite connector and annoying to use. Either that or install adapters. That's what I did for my Type O op-amp plug in.

Tek fully converted to BNC in 1963. My Type 535A was built after that date so it's BNC. But I've got plenty of stuff with the UHF connector such as two Type CA plug-in's, a Type 310A, and a Type 503A. I use the UHF to BNC adapters.

Yes, I have seen more than one pre-1963 unit with the connectors replaced. Even with an adapter, though, it's a terrible connector with poor performance. Yet, OEM ham radio transceivers STILL use it.  [edit] it's only redeeming quality is it is hard to destroy, so maybe it's a feature and not a bug for hamfisted hams. 

And let's not talk about GR connectors. What a nightmare they are. 

Hey now....GR-874 is a very nice connector, easy to use, with good performance out to a couple of kmc. I have a drawer in my lab tool chest that is probably 95% GR-874, elbows, DC bias insertion unit, adapters, T attenuators, regular attenuators... 

[BU508A]

Happy New Year 2022!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/

I hope, it'll be much better than in the movie from above... 

[Cerebus]

Need help from the UK gang...

Can'"t find any Belling-Lee to BNC adpater in France, unbelievable.

So thanks to the people who posted 2 links for this thing from UK vendors.

There was BARENCO :

https://www.barenco.co.uk/products/rf-adaptors/belling-lee-adaptor

2.50 quid a pop and won't ship to France. When I fill in the order form and select France, it says there is no shipping available for me, and won't proceed any further 

Other link was RS UK, at only 70 cents a pop, 4 times cheaper :

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg01745/adapto-bnc-s-to-tv-coax-p/dp/AV15293

Obviously RS UK doesn't sell to France, so checked RS France website, and they don't seem to have this adapter, that's my luck.

So if someone who has an account at RS UK could order me a few of these adapters, don't 3 know say 3 of them fior a couple quid, and add it to their next RS order ? Or if no order planned in the short term well that's fine would pay the local shipping fees, can't be that expensive... think it's 6+ Euros in France. Then ship to me in France in an envelope at the cheapest / slowest rate available, whatever that is...


Thanks in advance for you assistance ! 

EDIT : I would pay via Paypal it's the most practical and fast...

I've got an order lined up for RS in the next few days, I'd be happy to pick them up at the same time. If no one else has volunteered themselves, PM with your address and I'll get it sorted out in the new year.

[Vince]

Belling Lee, Spec and Dwagon : it's clearly a hopeless case, talking to a wall, I give up, I wish you well. I am done replying.

[mnementh]

And yet, you still can't resist the urge to single us out and reply one last time... 

mnem
No, thank you.

[mnementh]

Well... after smashing the bulb, it was a simple matter to solder a couple bits of paper-clip legs to make this. Literally less time than I spent shopping for the correct part. 

I was surprized to find an LED lamp in the last microwave I scrapped, as is common it was fully working but chucked in the dumpster due to rust. I've no shortage of regular lamps from microwaves too, they all seem to get quite dirty from whatever food splattered the insides, wonder if that bare board will survive if this happens. 

P.S. would it be wrong to treat it very carefully, in the next scrap microwave that appears in the dumpster. 

David

I actually considered this, and thought of trying to fit some sort of piece of clear plastic over the front of it; but the nekkid PCB barely fit through the original hole if I tilted it just right. I have some of the ultra-thin clear PVC heat-shrink squirreled away somewhere in the ToD; when I finally lay hands on that bin, I'll prolly revisit this.

In all honesty, I figured that if it dies due to random splatter or being close enough to the grille that some random beam of µ-wave energy hits something just so... "Fuck it. I'm only out a buck, and it was a good experiment."

mnem
"Any job worth doing is worth getting done." ~grand-dad

[Cerebus]

@Vince
I think you will find that it is you who has been misunderstanding what I have said about the BNC socket. I refer you to the quoted post below and as you will see I never insisted on you replacing the Belling-Lee socket with a BNC socket, merely said this In the past, I have replaced similar sockets with panel mounted BNC sockets with no noticeable drop in performance, but a significant increase in the durability of the socket.

The insistence is a figment of your imagination, and I also see that others have either made similar suggestions or endorsed my recommendation, which is a fact that seems to have escaped your attention. So am I to take it that you just take personal exception to anything that I or mnementh put forward for your consideration then 

The adaptors I linked to will plug into the existing socket on the Metrix and provide a BNC or F type without altering the unit.
The center contact of the Metrix probably just needs a clean and maybe a gentle squeeze together of the split.

Thanks for actually be willing to help, rather than judge, that's refreshing. If only they could all be like you, how friendly and productive TEA would be, not to mention the SNR would skyrocket.

I grabbed my LED torch light and threw some serious Lumens into that socket, I noticed that the two halves of the split inner core  were actually joining at their very bottom, it's in fact one single piece of metal. Therefore it did not make sense that one half was giving me a signal and not the other. Had to be bad connection. And when I saw the staggering amount of crust covering 100% of all surfaces in that socket, all black in there, thick layer.... it further reinforced the hypothesis.  So I did what I could to clean it. Attacked it first with a tiny flat screw driver to break up most of the black crust, blew some human air in there to force the debris out.  Then flooded the socket with contact cleaner / Deoxit, agitated it with the stiff hair of a nylon brush. That loosened the remaining crap. Then using the screw driver again,  I managed to shove a kitchen paper towel deep into the socket to dry it and take all the debris out.

Now looks soooooooooo much better ! Shiny and clean, almost like new. What I thought was "patina" from a distance, was in fact just crust and nothing else.

Fired up the scope and generator, now works much better.....

Will order a BNC adapter and see how it goes, but should do it I think...

Vince, most of would have told you the same thing as Robert did, so I'm guessing, the others made the same mistake I did, assumed that A/ you were aware that the 2 halves are joined at the base, B/ assumed that you had tried to clean the socket and C/ squeezed the 2 split ends closer together, gently with a pair of long nose pliers.

In the past, I have replaced similar sockets with panel mounted BNC sockets with no noticeable drop in performance, but a significant increase in the durability of the socket. 

Stop shouting, shouty people get washed down with the slops bucket.

[Vince]

Need help from the UK gang...

Can'"t find any Belling-Lee to BNC adpater in France, unbelievable.

So thanks to the people who posted 2 links for this thing from UK vendors.

There was BARENCO :

https://www.barenco.co.uk/products/rf-adaptors/belling-lee-adaptor

2.50 quid a pop and won't ship to France. When I fill in the order form and select France, it says there is no shipping available for me, and won't proceed any further 

Other link was RS UK, at only 70 cents a pop, 4 times cheaper :

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg01745/adapto-bnc-s-to-tv-coax-p/dp/AV15293

Obviously RS UK doesn't sell to France, so checked RS France website, and they don't seem to have this adapter, that's my luck.

So if someone who has an account at RS UK could order me a few of these adapters, don't 3 know say 3 of them fior a couple quid, and add it to their next RS order ? Or if no order planned in the short term well that's fine would pay the local shipping fees, can't be that expensive... think it's 6+ Euros in France. Then ship to me in France in an envelope at the cheapest / slowest rate available, whatever that is...


Thanks in advance for you assistance ! 

EDIT : I would pay via Paypal it's the most practical and fast...

I've got an order lined up for RS in the next few days, I'd be happy to pick them up at the same time. If no one else has volunteered themselves, PM with your address and I'll get it sorted out in the new year.

Thanks a lot Cerebrus !    ... but in the end as I said in a later message, I won't even have to bother you, as I finally, finally found that adapter on Farnell's French web site, so I can order it from here, phew ! I am sorted    

[Vince]

Vince, if your main problem with a BNC is the looks (which I can understand), but you also want to have a usable piece of TE (which it seems like) there might be a third option. Not the cheapest, but one that does tend to both goals: replace it with a different, modern RF connector that mounts flush to the face. You will probably have to make yourself an special-to-BNC cable to use it, but still. Depending on the size of the old connector, maybe I would maybe suggest an LEMO "ERN.1S.250.CTL". The mating plug is a "FFC.1S.250". These should go in a 12mm hole in the front panel. If the hole is smaller than that, go for a "ERN.00.250.CTL" (7mm hole) and a "FFC.00.250" plug. Looking at the price  , I maybe should have mentioned that before Christmas, now you'll have to wait for your birthday 

My Birthday is November 10th !     

Thanks for trying hard to find a compromise ! 

But I don't despise BNC  THAT much ... again as I said I only want to avoid it IF I CAN... ie, again, when the old Lee socket gives up the ghost for good. So far it still appears to work well enough now it's been cleaned, so I don't have to even think about replacing it... let's worry about that later... it's not like I was going to make intensive 24/7 use of it, so whatever life is still left in it may well be enough for years of enjoyment. And even if not, no need to replace as long as it works well enough to my taste. Sounds reasonable to me ? 

[med6753]

Is it just me? I thought it was New Years Eve.