Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 17737161 times)

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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109000 on: December 15, 2021, 07:47:39 am »
Note that some carriers don't like the black plastic wrap. Apparently it messes up their automated handling machines.
https://send.dhlparcel.co.uk/resources/how-to-package-parcels-for-international-delivery
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109001 on: December 15, 2021, 08:42:47 am »

But hey if your needs are not demanding rolls of packaging film are often quite sufficient for light duty packaging/strapping.

It all comes down to package weight, more or less.  One needs to support the contents in a way that transfers the stresses of freight to them in a way they can handle, and then when, having acquired that energy they try to break free of the corrugated cardboard, it must be strong enough to contain them.

The first part is about "interior decoration"; how you make the box cosy for the device and at the same time pad against moderately blunt force from outside.  Cosiness is intimately coupled to fit; which is why both pre-formed styrofoam (as can be seen in factory packaging) and the expanding foam between two plastic bags tactic works very well. The practice of using foam chips CAN work well, if there is enough of them, AND there is protection for protruding things like jacks or controls. But one must realise that the chips must interlock to create a passably rigid environment, or they're meaningless.

What one MUST do is to stop the contents and the packaging fighting each other. This becomes increasingly complicated as the mass of the contents increases.  The mechanism at play here is mostly deceleration; a loose item in the box (if too few chips, for instance) will accelerate inside the box, as a separate unit from the padding and box walls, and when it hits the stone floor of the Fragile Items department at the post office, first the box stops, then the contents stop, against the box and the few chips inside, smashing itself, the padding (as it were) and ultimately the box, to pieces. This is what seat belts and airbags prevent. When the car stops unplannedly, the humans inside are protected from crushing themselves against the interior by being tied down.

If you've hung on this far, we will now turn our attention to the "skin" of the packaging. This often is the corrugated cardboard box. Its rôle is to distribute loads and  hold the padding together, and protect it from abrasion. Further, it helps to create a manageable shape, including such things as handles. 

For most devices up to say about 25kg, if the box is good, and the interiors are well made, sealing by plastic or cloth-backed packaging tape and/or packaging film will do just fine, if done right (mostly a matter of "enough"). The bonus of using it, more so the film, is that they are wide and will distribute the holding force over a wider area. The straps will, as has already been noticed, sometimes cut the cardboard box and become increasingly meaningless. This means that straps may well necessitate a packaging upgrade to actually work.
Not one solution is perfect. You must mix and adapt to suit each use case.
Decades back pop and I had a fence batten sawmill which we used to utilize short logs from storm flattened trees and shorts from logging waste and we had said mill hooked up to an old tractor and we'd regularly do a few minutes milling to fill in some part of the day when other important tasks were done.
Making a m3 of battens/week (~400) was not unusual but they first need be placed in drying stacks for a couple of weeks and then bundled and strapped for trucking to the local timber treatment facility.
We went through a heap of strapping and buckles over the years and the cheap stuff was muck as no way you could tension it enough to keep the bundles in shape which required the strapping tight enough that it sang when plucked.

Forward a few decades and needing to replace tools after a workshop fire a new strapper was needed for general duties including packaging up the occasional big sale of equipment which we mostly deliver in a SUV as it's an always welcome ROAD TRIP !
This is the sort of thing I got as it's fast and you have total control:

https://www.rajapack.de/klebebaender-verschlussmittel/maschinen-werkzeuge-ausruestung/umreifungshilfe/hasplespanner_PDT01230.html
Didn't pay that sort of coin though !  :o

Combined with packaging wrap and maybe a custom pallet results in a robust shipment.
This one was the perfect fit between the wheel arches in my SUV yet not too heavy for a 2 man lift to get out at the destination.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109002 on: December 15, 2021, 10:37:19 am »
use this as spare ?  :-DD

https://www.ostron.de/Radar-GHz/Bauelemente-bis-SHF/Magnetron-Impulsmagnetron-MI-512-oxid.html

amazing what kinda stuff you can find with google ...
200KW...? Sure, what the hell; I've already spawned the next generation, it's not like I need my little swimmers... :-DD

In a alternate reality, tho... slAmazon has a new replacement 2M246 for $25 delivered in 2 days.  :o  I've already cleaned the cavity/waveguide, and serviced/reinstalled the mica sheet. Now to clean the HVT, HV Cap, etc and circulation fan.

mnem


Given that high power microwaves are involved, I'd be more concerned that you wouldn't be able to look at anything afterwards.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline DC1MC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109003 on: December 15, 2021, 11:34:07 am »
...
Given that high power microwaves are involved, I'd be more concerned that you wouldn't be able to look at anything afterwards.

Not with this popped eyes, no.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109004 on: December 15, 2021, 01:00:38 pm »
I'm a guy. Where do you think my priorities lie; what body part I'm going to think of first...? :-DD

mnem


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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109005 on: December 15, 2021, 01:22:53 pm »
RE: PROPER PACKAGING

I believe that for most single items of TE, the way AllTest packages is likely the closest to perfect you are going to get. That is one of the reasons I'm a repeat customer, even after finding that they do sometimes do the "bulk listing" thing where your exact item may not be what is shown.


          

...Just like Oakley sez:  "Thermonuclear Protection."  8)

Shipped Priority, new carton (NOT recycled), H-Taped top & bottom. Not only H-Taped, but stapled AND double-walled carton. Inside that, the good ol' "Spray-foam Cube of Goodness". Inside THAT, my little pink bundle of joy. And not just a pink wrapper... but a pink anti-static coated bag.  And finally.... my DOA baby.  :-DD

It's pretty hard to pack better; clearly these are professionals who didn't cut corners getting my meter here intact. While I wish I could have saved a few dollars, I don't begrudge them a penny spent on shipping. That package would have survived even those guys who chuck it over the fence...  :box:  :-+

mnem
This is real life; of course there will be a test!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 01:31:20 pm by mnementh »
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109006 on: December 15, 2021, 03:45:13 pm »
I believe that for most single items of TE, the way AllTest packages is likely the closest to perfect you are going to get.

That was indeed what I thought of as I wrote my little braindump of packaging experience.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109007 on: December 15, 2021, 03:58:24 pm »
No packaging required.......
Yesterdays long overdue scrap battery run to our friendly battery supplier....all 350 kg's worth !  :o
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109008 on: December 15, 2021, 04:22:36 pm »
No packaging required.......
Yesterdays long overdue scrap battery run to our friendly battery supplier....all 350 kg's worth !  :o

Holy crap.  :o Don't they have "core" charges in Kiwi Land? You buy new battery, get charged an additional $5 to $10 until you bring back to old one for recycling.

Or was there a whole bunch of "aw fuck it" here?  :-DD

Edit.....or are they batteries salvaged from junk vehicles?  :-//
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 04:31:03 pm by med6753 »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109009 on: December 15, 2021, 04:34:27 pm »
No packaging required.......
Yesterdays long overdue scrap battery run to our friendly battery supplier....all 350 kg's worth !  :o

Holy crap.  :o Don't they have "core" charges in Kiwi Land? You buy new battery, get charged an additional $5 to $10 until you bring back to old one for recycling.

Or was there a whole bunch of "aw fuck it" here?  :-DD
Many had been scored Med, some deadun's accumulated over decades and it was a long overdue cleanup of 3 stashes around here. Got ~$200 for that lot which brought a 820CCA battery that we needed to jump between a couple of tractors we rarely use.
The clean ones  :-DD had been in the garage and undergone attempts of bringing them back to life  :horse: and aw fuck it indeed, it was time for a cleanout.  :phew:
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109010 on: December 15, 2021, 06:06:10 pm »
RE: PROPER PACKAGING

I believe that for most single items of TE, the way AllTest packages is likely the closest to perfect you are going to get. That is one of the reasons I'm a repeat customer, even after finding that they do sometimes do the "bulk listing" thing where your exact item may not be what is shown.


          

...Just like Oakley sez:  "Thermonuclear Protection."  8)

Shipped Priority, new carton (NOT recycled), H-Taped top & bottom. Not only H-Taped, but stapled AND double-walled carton. Inside that, the good ol' "Spray-foam Cube of Goodness". Inside THAT, my little pink bundle of joy. And not just a pink wrapper... but a pink anti-static coated bag.  And finally.... my DOA baby.  :-DD

It's pretty hard to pack better; clearly these are professionals who didn't cut corners getting my meter here intact. While I wish I could have saved a few dollars, I don't begrudge them a penny spent on shipping. That package would have survived even those guys who chuck it over the fence...  :box:  :-+

mnem
This is real life; of course there will be a test!
I also think that "All Test" have the best packing, I'm also a repeat customer of theirs, so thats +2 for their method of packing if you have the capability I don't think it can be beaten.
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline dl6lr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109011 on: December 15, 2021, 07:30:49 pm »
I can more or less confirm that. As soon as I plug in the 5248L the oven light comes on. Totally independent of the power on switch.

Otherwise the oven wouldn't really be helpful, would it?
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109012 on: December 15, 2021, 07:42:31 pm »
RE: PROPER PACKAGING

I believe that for most single items of TE, the way AllTest packages is likely the closest to perfect you are going to get. That is one of the reasons I'm a repeat customer, even after finding that they do sometimes do the "bulk listing" thing where your exact item may not be what is shown.


          

...Just like Oakley sez:  "Thermonuclear Protection."  8)

Shipped Priority, new carton (NOT recycled), H-Taped top & bottom. Not only H-Taped, but stapled AND double-walled carton. Inside that, the good ol' "Spray-foam Cube of Goodness". Inside THAT, my little pink bundle of joy. And not just a pink wrapper... but a pink anti-static coated bag.  And finally.... my DOA baby.  :-DD

It's pretty hard to pack better; clearly these are professionals who didn't cut corners getting my meter here intact. While I wish I could have saved a few dollars, I don't begrudge them a penny spent on shipping. That package would have survived even those guys who chuck it over the fence...  :box:  :-+

mnem
This is real life; of course there will be a test!
I also think that "All Test" have the best packing, I'm also a repeat customer of theirs, so thats +2 for their method of packing if you have the capability I don't think it can be beaten.

Instapak foam in a bag? https://www.lpsind.com/shipping-materials/instapak-quick/

Learning to use the expanding liquid foam packaging system takes just minutes. It’s extremely space-efficient, with the equivalent of a room full of packaging in a single carton. Even better, it’s economical and environmentally sensitive.
1. Remove the bag from the Instapak® Quick™ warmer, unfold it and lay it on a flat surface.
2. Apply pressure to the “Press Here” area on the lower left side of the bag to open the inside seal.
3. Pat part “A” and part “B” back and forth and the bag will begin to expand.
4. Place the expanding foam filled bag in the shipping carton and nestle the product onto the cushion.
5. Place a second expanding foam-filled bag on top of the product and close the carton flaps.
6. The Instapak® Quick™ bag expands around the product and against the carton to form a top cushion.


Not cheap!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109013 on: December 15, 2021, 08:23:48 pm »
Had a look at the hp 5340A from the PP auction this afternoon, first thing I noticed was the lack of fuse fitted.


Inside it appears to have had the same upgrade as my other 5340A, two replacement front end pre-amplifiers, no options are present.







A closer look at the power supply section reveals some heat related delamination of the PCB under one of the rectifiers, checking the main smoothing caps and C2 & C4 are shorted, as is one of the small bridge rectifiers (but not the overheated one). Hopefully it's just the PSU that is faulty.





David
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 08:42:11 pm by factory »
 

Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109014 on: December 15, 2021, 08:27:03 pm »
a quick update ...
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109015 on: December 15, 2021, 08:29:40 pm »
RE: PROPER PACKAGING

I believe that for most single items of TE, the way AllTest packages is likely the closest to perfect you are going to get. That is one of the reasons I'm a repeat customer, even after finding that they do sometimes do the "bulk listing" thing where your exact item may not be what is shown.


          

...Just like Oakley sez:  "Thermonuclear Protection."  8)

Shipped Priority, new carton (NOT recycled), H-Taped top & bottom. Not only H-Taped, but stapled AND double-walled carton. Inside that, the good ol' "Spray-foam Cube of Goodness". Inside THAT, my little pink bundle of joy. And not just a pink wrapper... but a pink anti-static coated bag.  And finally.... my DOA baby.  :-DD

It's pretty hard to pack better; clearly these are professionals who didn't cut corners getting my meter here intact. While I wish I could have saved a few dollars, I don't begrudge them a penny spent on shipping. That package would have survived even those guys who chuck it over the fence...  :box:  :-+

mnem
This is real life; of course there will be a test!
I also think that "All Test" have the best packing, I'm also a repeat customer of theirs, so thats +2 for their method of packing if you have the capability I don't think it can be beaten.

Instapak foam in a bag? https://www.lpsind.com/shipping-materials/instapak-quick/

Learning to use the expanding liquid foam packaging system takes just minutes. It’s extremely space-efficient, with the equivalent of a room full of packaging in a single carton. Even better, it’s economical and environmentally sensitive.
1. Remove the bag from the Instapak® Quick™ warmer, unfold it and lay it on a flat surface.
2. Apply pressure to the “Press Here” area on the lower left side of the bag to open the inside seal.
3. Pat part “A” and part “B” back and forth and the bag will begin to expand.
4. Place the expanding foam filled bag in the shipping carton and nestle the product onto the cushion.
5. Place a second expanding foam-filled bag on top of the product and close the carton flaps.
6. The Instapak® Quick™ bag expands around the product and against the carton to form a top cushion.


Not cheap!

I would also agree that AllTest packaging is superior to anything I've seen but as tggzzz points out it is not cheap.
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109016 on: December 15, 2021, 08:36:46 pm »
It's also not very green.
The foam is useless for anything else and takes up a lot of space in landfill
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109017 on: December 15, 2021, 08:39:39 pm »
Sprague Extra-Knackered x2 from the 5340A above.

David
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 09:02:32 pm by factory »
 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109018 on: December 15, 2021, 08:51:29 pm »
It's also not very green.
The foam is useless for anything else and takes up a lot of space in landfill

Here, such products get sorted with other plastics and are either recycled or turned into heat. We're so good at sorting our waste at home that we (family of 5) get away with one 140 litres bin emptied once a month, and that includes compostable food waste that is separately packed in biodegradable plastic bags. We separate paper, magazines, glass, metals, electronics, batteries, garden waste, dangerous chemicals, tyres, and a few more types, and those are discarded separately from the 140l bin.

Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109019 on: December 15, 2021, 09:06:29 pm »
For my council at least there is no recycling for plastic foams. It goes in the ggeneral waste where it maay or may not get incinerated.
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109020 on: December 15, 2021, 09:10:19 pm »
Sprague Extra-Knackered x2 from the 5340A above.

David

Shocking. Sprague capacitors NEVER short out.  ::)
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Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109021 on: December 15, 2021, 09:16:52 pm »
The Instapak and similar expanding foam systems are great if they're used correctly.  In my previous job, we were a distribution partner for a German company that made rack-mount RF generators; they were typically 2U or 3U enclosures that were perhaps 20" deep (~50 cm), and they weighed in at 15-20 kg (a WAG; it's been twelve years since I worked there).  Initially, they would send them packed in heavy cartons with rubbery foam (think that multi-colored carpet padding stuff that looks like tiny chunks of assorted colors melded together) corners - a square piece about 2" thick and 6" x 6", with another 'L' shaped piece on top; the 'L' would be 2" wide and 1.5-2" tall.  When glued onto the square piece, you'd get a 4" square flat pad with a 2" thick wall atop it.  One went into each corner of the box, then the instrument went in.  It sat on the 4" square pads, and was held away from the carton walls by the 'L'.  Another set would go in on top, but facing down, giving you a generator held in place in all six corners.

This worked near perfectly, things rarely if ever suffered shipping damage.

Then they got an Instapak system.  Line the box, squirt in the foam, put the cover sheet on, put the generator into the box, repeat the process for the top pad.  Total disaster - nearly every generator that came in had bent rack ears and was bouncing around in the box.  The thing was, the Instapak was fine for the top and bottom, where the mass of the generator was spread out over the large surface area, but failed miserably at the sides and corners.  Two things worked against it - the first being that the foam at its best wasn't up for the concentrated force applied when the mass of the generator was applied though the much smaller surface area of the sides, front and rear vs the top and bottom, and the second being that because the two halves of the foam pillows met roughly mid way up the side of the generator, there was incomplete fill at that area, further reducing the ability of the material to hold up to forces resulting from shipping.  We went from near 100% safe transport to damned near 100% needing body work upon arrival; the biggest thing being bent rack ears.  The rack ears were, of course, an extension of the front panel material rather than add-on pieces of extrusion, so if the panel was damaged beyond the point where I could straighten the ears without it looking too much like a dog's dinner, I'd need to swap in a replacement piece of sheet metal.  ROYAL PITA.  Despite my pleas, they continued to use that system.  Once I'd fixed the damaged generators, I'd squash down the foam at the sides and put an L shaped piece of Ethafoam in each corner (sort of like the OLD way) and they'd be fine.  If they'd have put Ethafoam Ls in with the Instapak at the factory, things would have been fine, but that never happened.  Horses for courses.

That said, I'll add my endorsement of AllTest knowing their way around packaging - in my experience, too, they have always done an excellent job of it.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109022 on: December 15, 2021, 09:17:40 pm »
It's also not very green.
The foam is useless for anything else and takes up a lot of space in landfill

Here, such products get sorted with other plastics and are either recycled or turned into heat. We're so good at sorting our waste at home that we (family of 5) get away with one 140 litres bin emptied once a month, and that includes compostable food waste that is separately packed in biodegradable plastic bags. We separate paper, magazines, glass, metals, electronics, batteries, garden waste, dangerous chemicals, tyres, and a few more types, and those are discarded separately from the 140l bin.
Much the same in our house as well.
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109023 on: December 15, 2021, 09:24:07 pm »
Sprague Extra-Knackered x2 from the 5340A above.

David

Shocking. Sprague capacitors NEVER short out.  ::)

Trouble is I don't know the history, the rectifier might have failed first, then blew the fuse, maybe many larger size fuses got tried before they gave up, who knows.  :-//

And we occasionally had similar large can caps from Philips shorted in stuff at work.

David
 

Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #109024 on: December 15, 2021, 09:26:03 pm »
In my experience with 5340As, the custom Schmitt trigger IC on the A22 board (top right in the photo below) is a problem child.  It's bad on both of the ones I have.


Sort of like a Roach Motel, signals go in, but they don't get out...


-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 
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