Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[srb1954]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the data sheet a few weeks back. They are crappy valves on almost all parameters: 1.4 mW max, anode resistance 330k, f_t around 30-40 kHz, yadda, yadda, yadda.

They are a curiosity rather than a useful component.

Here's the data sheet:

That is a truely awful as an amplifying device. I think early transistors from the 1950's would have had better specs than this device.

It is interesting to note that the application circuit has to use FETs to buffer both the input and output of this device to make up for its deficiencies. Even then the claimed circuit performance is abysmal in just about every respect.

[duckduck]

<SNIP>
The Korg 6P1 dual triode is made in Japan.   I've thought about buying a pair to tinker with.  RS has them in stock.

Until now, I have only seen sompe pictures of it and thought of it as a curiosity. But Valves being Valves - is that thing usable for RF?

Out of curiosity I had a look at the data sheet a few weeks back. They are crappy valves on almost all parameters: 1.4 mW max, anode resistance 330k, f_t around 30-40 kHz, yadda, yadda, yadda.

They are a curiosity rather than a useful component.

Here's the data sheet:

I have only ever seen them used in audio applications: distortion pedals for guitar, keyboards (synthesizers), and headphone amplifiers. I guess the advertised value proposition is "tube sound in a compact low power device". They sure as hell ain't cheap at something like USD50 per unit in low quantities. That really limits potential applications. Most guitarists are radically old-school and won't even look at an amp that doesn't have a row of 12AX7s / 6L6GCs / EL84s visible in the back. The mindset is pretty much "If vacuum tubes were good enough for Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Eddie Van Halen..."

How can you argue with that logic?

[Andrew_Debbie]

Working Tek 475 on eBay.   Local pickup only.    I hope someone bids this out of my price range.     Usual disclaimers - I do not know the seller or if the representation is accurate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124980125670

[mansaxel]

 Most guitarists are radically old-school and won't even look at an amp that doesn't have a row of 12AX7s / 6L6GCs / EL84s visible in the back. The mindset is pretty much "If vacuum tubes were good enough for Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Eddie Van Halen..."

How can you argue with that logic?

You don't, because it is not logic.

Rather than "If vacuum tubes were good enough" it is  "It must have been the valve amplifier and the high-capacitance spiral cords that made the old guys sound so good. If I only buy something vintage or vintage-looking I'll get better tone."

It is convenient to disregard both "10000 hours of practice" (even if that figure is debated ) and the fact that back then you really did everything by hand, so there was no way out of actually being good at what you did.  Also, recording was expensive and tightly controlled because of that, so only the most selected were actually recorded.

Then, naturally, there is a market for these things that makes no effort at emphasising the virtues of practice or talent.

On the subject of thermionic technology, borderline deception circuits are what is being done today, because people so desperately want Old Gear.

Having written all this, and observed the fact that the new gear (by which I mean stuff built the last 25 years or so) is so radically better, on average, I still have the desire to build a valve guitar amplifier, but that is because I want to learn how it is done while spending lab bench time with the intended user, Middle Boy, not that I think he'll be any better purely from thermionic amplification. It might do wonders for his motivation, though.

[VK5RC]

<SNIP>
The Korg 6P1 dual triode is made in Japan.   I've thought about buying a pair to tinker with.  RS has them in stock.

Until now, I have only seen sompe pictures of it and thought of it as a curiosity. But Valves being Valves - is that thing usable for RF?

Out of curiosity I had a look at the data sheet a few weeks back. They are crappy valves on almost all parameters: 1.4 mW max, anode resistance 330k, f_t around 30-40 kHz, yadda, yadda, yadda.

They are a curiosity rather than a useful component.

Here's the data sheet:

I have only ever seen them used in audio applications: distortion pedals for guitar, keyboards (synthesizers), and headphone amplifiers. I guess the advertised value proposition is "tube sound in a compact low power device". They sure as hell ain't cheap at something like USD50 per unit in low quantities. That really limits potential applications. Most guitarists are radically old-school and won't even look at an amp that doesn't have a row of 12AX7s / 6L6GCs / EL84s visible in the back. The mindset is pretty much "If vacuum tubes were good enough for Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Eddie Van Halen..."

How can you argue with that logic?

I have built one of the Korg kits, they do sound a bit 'tube' like but certainly will protect your hearing - not a lot of power coming out 😂

[TERRA Operative]

I have a couple of those Korg tubes, haven't used them yet. From what I hear they are rather microphonic.

[McBryce]

X-Y is pretty good in the modern DSO.

Not bad, but those sound files still look much cooler on an analogue CRT scope.

McBryce.

[tautech]

Not bad, but those sound files still look much cooler on an analogue CRT scope.

McBryce.

Yeah best I've seen although I've been very tempted to download some of Jerobeam's music to play with.
Mesmerizing stuff. 
https://oscilloscopemusic.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/jerobeamfenderson1/videos

[beanflying]

Burp - Low Carbs and stir fry vegies is healthy right? 

Szechuan Pepper, home made spicy Plum Sauce, garlic, ginger and a small chilli, splash of Light Soy and another of Shaoxing wine.

Also in the veg mix is some Bamboo Shoots and water chestnuts to finish up some leftovers.

[mansaxel]

Burp - Low Carbs and stir fry vegies is healthy right? 

As long as you leave out the bowl of rice, it's one of the few things that keep me awake after dinner to

[Brumby]

Not bad, but those sound files still look much cooler on an analogue CRT scope.

McBryce.

Yeah best I've seen although I've been very tempted to download some of Jerobeam's music to play with.
Mesmerizing stuff. 
https://oscilloscopemusic.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/jerobeamfenderson1/videos

Like I don't have enough distractions as it is....   

[McBryce]

Not bad, but those sound files still look much cooler on an analogue CRT scope.

McBryce.

Yeah best I've seen although I've been very tempted to download some of Jerobeam's music to play with.
Mesmerizing stuff. 
https://oscilloscopemusic.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/jerobeamfenderson1/videos

Like I don't have enough distractions as it is....   

I built a headphone socket to 2x BNC adapter specifically to watch these

McBryce.

[mnementh]

   Submitted for Honorable Mention: The printer that will not die.

   Rubbish, allow me to introduce its executioner 

Even after you smash it with a post maul, there will be some printer nerd along in minutes and snatch the whole pile of bits off the curb into the back of his rusted out Corolla. Parts of it will live on in other 4250s.

mnem
true story.

Then he will chuck it back on the pavement, after finding out that the latest crApple OS update doesn't like it, along with many other old printers & scanners. 

David

No he won't. He'll sell it for a tidy profit to some bass-ackwards corporate or .edu that still runs on AD, because it's still Plug & Play in that environment and is a 200,000 pages/month printer that all the "printer service" companies happily support.

mnem
*once upon a usedta-was printer nerd*

All of this one up man ship is pointless really because if the person wielding the wildizer does his job correctly then there will be nothing left that would be of any use to that nerd with the rusty old Corolla to snatch up from the curb and chuck into its back for use in other 4250s. 

Ain't I a stinker

Naaahhh... you're just pulling the dwagon's tail.

I know you're not seriously promoting the whole "Well, if you can't beat it, beat it up" stereotypical "Wild Wild West attitude" so blatantly displayed by this line of reasoning. 

Also, I know you wouldn't really do it; smashing a printer that badly is actually a fucking lot of work, and you can't be arsed. 

mnem
...unless some annoying dwagon agitates you bad enough to get your dander up.

[mnementh]

   Burp - Low Carbs and stir fry veggies is healthy right? 

Szechuan Pepper, home made spicy Plum Sauce, garlic, ginger and a small chilli, splash of Light Soy and another of Shaoxing wine. Also in the veg mix is some Bamboo Shoots and water chestnuts to finish up some leftovers.

Sadly, not really low carb. All the peppers are full of fructose, so is the plum sauce, and the water chestnuts are almost as full of simple starches as potatoes; there's even appreciable carbs in the broccoli at 2g/oz. Then the soy sauce and wine just knock it out of the park.

That plate is easily 30-50 grams; this is 2-3 days' worth of carbs for me. Last few days, as I've been too busy to cook, I've been mostly eating eggs and leftover burger patties. My carb count is in the single digits.

That said...

mnem
keto FTW, yo.

[Saskia]

Burp - Low Carbs and stir fry vegies is healthy right? 

Szechuan Pepper, home made spicy Plum Sauce, garlic, ginger and a small chilli, splash of Light Soy and another of Shaoxing wine.

Also in the veg mix is some Bamboo Shoots and water chestnuts to finish up some leftovers.

actually chestnuts have lotsa carbs, as does Plum Sauce ...

Bon appetite.

[beanflying]

I did skip the rice so I says 'low' Carbs A few turns of the peddles will sort that out anyway 

[mnementh]

The day after...

Spent the afternoon showing my son how to do front brakes on the RAV4; it felt good to get my hands dirty for a change. He mostly whinged me to death. 

Today though, they're aching like a motherf*****... getting old ain't for wussies.

mnem
*toddles off to find some claw clippers*

[VK5RC]

I have a couple of those Korg tubes, haven't used them yet. From what I hear they are rather microphonic.

They are a bit - not crazily so. Rather odd having a 'tube' at 5v. I like the glow 😁 pity that it isn't orange.

[mnementh]

...I like the glow 😁 pity that it isn't orange.

I'm telling you... these were never meant to be used this way. They're really just VFD face-displays for some abysmal failure of a robot toy that someone found a warehouse full of... and now somebody at KORG is trying to find a "alt-market" for them.

mnem

[Cerebus]

 Most guitarists are radically old-school and won't even look at an amp that doesn't have a row of 12AX7s / 6L6GCs / EL84s visible in the back. The mindset is pretty much "If vacuum tubes were good enough for Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Eddie Van Halen..."

How can you argue with that logic?

You don't, because it is not logic.

Rather than "If vacuum tubes were good enough" it is  "It must have been the valve amplifier and the high-capacitance spiral cords that made the old guys sound so good. If I only buy something vintage or vintage-looking I'll get better tone."

It is convenient to disregard both "10000 hours of practice" (even if that figure is debated ) and the fact that back then you really did everything by hand, so there was no way out of actually being good at what you did.  Also, recording was expensive and tightly controlled because of that, so only the most selected were actually recorded.

Then, naturally, there is a market for these things that makes no effort at emphasising the virtues of practice or talent.

On the subject of thermionic technology, borderline deception circuits are what is being done today, because people so desperately want Old Gear.

Having written all this, and observed the fact that the new gear (by which I mean stuff built the last 25 years or so) is so radically better, on average, I still have the desire to build a valve guitar amplifier, but that is because I want to learn how it is done while spending lab bench time with the intended user, Middle Boy, not that I think he'll be any better purely from thermionic amplification. It might do wonders for his motivation, though.

I date from the era you're harking back to there and because I used to hang around with a lot of musicians, both professional and amateur, Metal to Mendelssohn, (no, I am not a drummer) and I can tell you there was as much guff and old wive's tales passed around back then as there is now as to what super secret sauce is behind 'the sound'. Nothing changes, lead guitarists still make bass player jokes, bass players still make drummer jokes, lead guitarists still can't count above ten without taking their socks off, first violins still have a bow up their arse, and people still pass around magical tales about what wood to make guitars from, the construction - both electronic and physical - of instrument amplifiers, how to (mis-)use microphones and so on.

[Cerebus]

I have a couple of those Korg tubes, haven't used them yet. From what I hear they are rather microphonic.

Unsurprising. When valves used to be in everything we were all aware that they can be microphonic but with modern unfamiliarity with the technology that 'obvious' fact has tended to be forgotten.

 I put 'obvious' in quotes because although it is obvious that valves will be microphonic - active bits suspended on wires and thin sheets of metal - it's that kind of obvious that isn't until someone points it out, or you're so familiar with it that it has become an ingrained fact. It's 'obvious' to me that MLCCs are microphonic but it probably wouldn't be if someone hadn't told me that it was obvious.

[Saskia]

@Vince
something for you ?

[Vince]

@Vince
something for you ?

Nope.

[Neper]

Unsurprising. When valves used to be in everything we were all aware that they can be microphonic but with modern unfamiliarity with the technology that 'obvious' fact has tended to be forgotten.

...and even then they wouldn't get up in the morning at Telefunken and say: "Oh, the weather is nice. Let's make some VF14 with low microphony today." When Neumann asked for a batch of VF14m, someone at Telefunken would just select them out of the normal production run.

[med6753]

Completed re-cap of Fluke 8060A. Quick test to make sure all is well. Next step is full functional test and calibration.