Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Saskia]

@captn Bullshot: the fishnchips is from Hooksiel which is near Rüstersiel to the East, Harlesiel / Carolinensiel /Neuharlingersiel to the West. Greetsiel is nearer to Norden.

Yes, we have a lot of *siel up here.

[Specmaster]

[/i][/color] we did for much too little money as a youth!!!

mnem
And yet, having learnt those lessons by the skin of our teeth and by example of those who did not live to tell the tale... we still went ahead and had children.

Not all of us. SWMBO and I decided on a dog. We can always borrow  child for a wile if we need confirmation we were right.

We tried both.  Kid has been mostly well-behaved all week.  The dog Hell-hound has been a PITA.

Earlier this week, the dog went through the chain-link fence.
(Note: need to redo the photo.  Glare obscures the gaping hole.)


EDIT:  Chain-link is 9 AWG vinyl coated steel.  Currently waiting for quotes for 120 feet of 6 AWG chain-link.  That is going to blow the TEA budget for a long time...

I was looking at a 850g piece of entrecôte (snip)

I was looking at a full BBQ chicken sitting on the back burner of the stove.  Looked away to answer the kid on something.  Looked back and there was no more chicken.
Chicken was taken away from the dog with great difficulty (no reward for bad behaviour).
Had leftover spaghetti for supper...

Yeah, that is a problem with dogs, should have got a cat.

[Specmaster]

I really don't understand why people don't clean their stuff a little before trying to sell them.

You'd think so wouldn't you? The thing is, I suspect, that some people have what many of us might regard as low standards of cleanliness and think that the rest of the world don't care too. To whit, one member on here posted this photo at the top of a thread he started:



That, to my mind, is gross. Moreover, even if I was prepared to use it in that condition (I wouldn't be) I'd clean it before showing the world what I was like by posting a photo of it. Not to mention who the hell would probe high voltage with that much muck making a tracking path straight from the tip to their fingers?

I don't mind tools of any kind looking like they are put to use, that they've seen some action, but I also think that if you can't take care of your tools what goddam mess are you going to make of anything you work on with them?

Yuck, if that meter was mine and on my bench looking like that I'd hang my head in shame, but you're right, I see many meters in similar state, and it only takes a few minutes to keep them nice clean.

I called him out on the sorry state of that Fluke and his response was rather lame.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/valve-amps-are-dangerous/msg3750853/#msg3750853

I thought he didn't reply to your point about cleaning, or he deleted it.

[Specmaster]

My Fluke meters looked as dirty as that one above after just one job on-site when I was an electrician.
Ain't nobody got time to spit polish a work tool 5 times a day, just like no-one details their car after every drive.
Clients aren't gonna pay me to sit there and wash and wax my test gear...

I cleaned my gear at the end of the week, but workshops be dusty and sites be dirty so mucky meters are inevitable.

I can understand that. But the Fluke mentioned above is far beyond one day / one dirty job site filthy. 

Depends on the jobsite. I've had my meter almost black after one job, other times it's pristine clean for a week.

But yeah, the meter could do with a chance encounter with an alcohol swab.

Especially the leads, there could be cut etc lurking behind the grime, far better to find it before it finds you 

[McBryce]

I really don't understand why people don't clean their stuff a little before trying to sell them.

You'd think so wouldn't you? The thing is, I suspect, that some people have what many of us might regard as low standards of cleanliness and think that the rest of the world don't care too. To whit, one member on here posted this photo at the top of a thread he started:



That, to my mind, is gross. Moreover, even if I was prepared to use it in that condition (I wouldn't be) I'd clean it before showing the world what I was like by posting a photo of it. Not to mention who the hell would probe high voltage with that much muck making a tracking path straight from the tip to their fingers?

I don't mind tools of any kind looking like they are put to use, that they've seen some action, but I also think that if you can't take care of your tools what goddam mess are you going to make of anything you work on with them?

Yuck, if that meter was mine and on my bench looking like that I'd hang my head in shame, but you're right, I see many meters in similar state, and it only takes a few minutes to keep them nice clean.

I called him out on the sorry state of that Fluke and his response was rather lame.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/valve-amps-are-dangerous/msg3750853/#msg3750853

I thought he didn't reply to your point about cleaning, or he deleted it.

I couldn't see a response either. In a slight defense of grubby test gear, it really depends on what it's being used for, and where. The Flukes in my electronics lab all look like they were just taken out of the box, but the flukes I use in the garage can quickly get very grubby and only get cleaned occassionally.

McBryce.

[factory]

My Fluke meters looked as dirty as that one above after just one job on-site when I was an electrician.
Ain't nobody got time to spit polish a work tool 5 times a day, just like no-one details their car after every drive.
Clients aren't gonna pay me to sit there and wash and wax my test gear...

I cleaned my gear at the end of the week, but workshops be dusty and sites be dirty so mucky meters are inevitable.

I can understand that. But the Fluke mentioned above is far beyond one day / one dirty job site filthy. 

Not sure why you think his response is "lame", he clearly explains it to my mind:

"The Fluke is used all day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year, and is about 6 or 7 years old.
I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.

If I thought it would improve its performance by constantly cleaning it, I might consider doing that.  As it is, it has a job to do and it does it very well."

My personal choice would be to glove up to avoid the muck, but even doing that if you handle the meter with the gloves still on you're getting it mucky.

All equipment looks like that after about 10 minutes at work, then again we mostly repair the running gear of trains. Which is covered in grime, diesel soot, brush-gear carbon, grease, oil and anything else that gets in the way of a train.
Best one was the Megger I was asked to fix (had been dropped), the leads with it were so dirty, you had to unplug them to to get overrange. 

Having said that my Wavetek DMM could do with a clean, been used at my Grandads place a few times and everything there was very dirty, from the vintage stationary engines he worked on.

David

[Cerebus]

My Fluke meters looked as dirty as that one above after just one job on-site when I was an electrician.
Ain't nobody got time to spit polish a work tool 5 times a day, just like no-one details their car after every drive.
Clients aren't gonna pay me to sit there and wash and wax my test gear...

I cleaned my gear at the end of the week, but workshops be dusty and sites be dirty so mucky meters are inevitable.

I can understand that. But the Fluke mentioned above is far beyond one day / one dirty job site filthy. 

Not sure why you think his response is "lame", he clearly explains it to my mind:

"The Fluke is used all day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year, and is about 6 or 7 years old.
I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.

If I thought it would improve its performance by constantly cleaning it, I might consider doing that.  As it is, it has a job to do and it does it very well."

My personal choice would be to glove up to avoid the muck, but even doing that if you handle the meter with the gloves still on you're getting it mucky.

The parallel argument would be "This body is in use all day, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.". Would you also consider that an acceptable argument for not cleaning his body from time to time? No? That's why it's a lame answer.

To me, letting your tools or test gear (or for that matter your body) get into that state belies a certain attitude. One that if you aren't minded to maintain your tooling implies something about what attitude you're going to bring to the things you use them on. My tools see muck all the time, if they look or feel mucky they get cleaned before getting put away into the tool box, tool chest or wherever they live when not being actively used. It doesn't even take any significant time - a whole day spent working on the car might involve 10 minutes cleaning up at the end of it. Then when I get them out to work on something clean they don't add muck to the job. Whatever happened to "Look after your tools and they'll look after you."?

[Robert763]

For AC/DC clamp meter bargains it's hard to beat the HEME 1000 in the UK.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294024178306
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154671558437

There is also a 100A version, HEME 100.
They have peak or reading hold, Two analog outputs (on mini XLR) one is the actual waveform the other DC representation of RMS. Also automatic AC/DC selection. AC is true RMS. The only real downside is they are a bit chunky. It also has a built in puzzle, where does the battery go? Don't take all the screws out (some should be sealed). The 9V battery is under the clamp opening lever. Just take out the pivot screw. Don't buy the explosion proof version, it has a potted 9V rechargable and no analog output.
These were expensive when new, £330 in 1990. A lot on ebay are ex military.
Edit I have 3 1000s and a 100 

ITT Mx1200S over here. It is of the same size, but has somewhat different functions. Output is only active for current measurements and switchable between waveform and DC RMS value. The analogue output is accessible by 2mm connectors which lie coaxially behind the voltage input connectors, so you need very special plugs for them (shown on the third picture). I also have the 3-phase adaptor for it, which plugs into the voltage input jacks for 3-phase power measurements.  It does also peak current and cosPhi. Was sold also by Siemens and HCK, at least.

That looks a lot like a LEM 200P. It is is closer in functionlity to my LEM HEME 2000P Analyst.  It is an Clamp on AC/DC/TRMS Ammeter/Voltmeter/kVAmeter/Wattmeter. Also has a 3 phase voltage adaptor for balanced loads like motors. It has a graphics display so can show some harmonic info too.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/76031.pdf

     

[mnementh]

EDIT : maybe in the '50s and '60s the spelling was not standardized just yet ? Maybe the Siemens was not really being used back then and therefore nobody would feel there was any ambiguity and people would just write 's' or 'S' depending on the mood and nobody would even see anything wrong or odd about it ?! I don't know...

Siemens is an European thing. Across the pond they've used Mho (Ohm reversed) as the unit for conductivity.

Some of this is also the time countries adopted the SI system so it is going to vary.

I remember the SI system being specifically taught in late secondary school in Oz (so early 80's) and our metrication (likely ties into this) and unit changes happened over an extended period of time from the mid/late 60's so while I am not sure we were still likely using MKS until about that time or a mix. So even now we still talk and use a mix of units depending on industry and are far from fully metricated, the next generation will see that likely phased out totally with us old buggers leaving the workforce.

Yup... I was taught Mho in my engineering coursework... of course, I was also taught the wrong direction of electron flow as well.

Another thing that drives me crazy... as a semi-competent practitioner of multiple disciplines... is how say the automotive industry will appropriate terms/abbreviations that means something very specific in electronics engineering or how even though they are made of electronics, the computer science field will do the same. And the worst part of it is that these fields are constantly in flux, so those terms come in and out of usage over time. 

mnem
pS I love you guys.   

[mnementh]

To all the stoopit shit we did for much too little money as a youth!!!

mnem
And yet, having learnt those lessons by the skin of our teeth and by example of those who did not live to tell the tale... we still went ahead and had children.

Not all of us. SWMBO and I decided on a dog. We can always borrow  child for a wile if we need confirmation we were right.

We tried both.  Kid has been mostly well-behaved all week.  The dog Hell-hound has been a PITA.   Earlier this week, the dog went through the chain-link fence.   (Note: need to redo the photo.  Glare obscures the gaping hole.) 

EDIT:  Chain-link is 9 AWG vinyl coated steel.  Currently waiting for quotes for 120 feet of 6 AWG chain-link.  That is going to blow the TEA budget for a long time...   

I was looking at a 850g piece of entrecôte (snip)

I was looking at a full BBQ chicken sitting on the back burner of the stove.  Looked away to answer the kid on something.  Looked back and there was no more chicken. Chicken was taken away from the dog with great difficulty (no reward for bad behaviour). Had leftover spaghetti for supper...

Yeah, that is a problem with dogs, should have got a cat.

Yes, but dogs don't usually pee/poop in your shoes when they're mad at you. Or always find the laundry pile of all your good dress clothes to have a litter on. 

mnem
Cats also have zero sense of personal space. some dogs have.

[Cerebus]

@captn Bullshot: the fishnchips is from Hooksiel which is near Rüstersiel to the East, Harlesiel / Carolinensiel /Neuharlingersiel to the West. Greetsiel is nearer to Norden.

Yes, we have a lot of *siel up here.

So near Bremerhaven (itself near Hamburg) for those who want to look it up in an atlas rather than on a local map. 

[mnementh]

My Fluke meters looked as dirty as that one above after just one job on-site when I was an electrician.
Ain't nobody got time to spit polish a work tool 5 times a day, just like no-one details their car after every drive.
Clients aren't gonna pay me to sit there and wash and wax my test gear...

I cleaned my gear at the end of the week, but workshops be dusty and sites be dirty so mucky meters are inevitable.

I can understand that. But the Fluke mentioned above is far beyond one day / one dirty job site filthy. 

Not sure why you think his response is "lame", he clearly explains it to my mind:

"The Fluke is used all day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year, and is about 6 or 7 years old.
I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.

If I thought it would improve its performance by constantly cleaning it, I might consider doing that.  As it is, it has a job to do and it does it very well."

My personal choice would be to glove up to avoid the muck, but even doing that if you handle the meter with the gloves still on you're getting it mucky.

The parallel argument would be "This body is in use all day, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.". Would you also consider that an acceptable argument for not cleaning his body from time to time? No? That's why it's a lame answer.

To me, letting your tools or test gear (or for that matter your body) get into that state belies a certain attitude. One that if you aren't minded to maintain your tooling implies something about what attitude you're going to bring to the things you use them on. My tools see muck all the time, if they look or feel mucky they get cleaned before getting put away into the tool box, tool chest or wherever they live when not being actively used. It doesn't even take any significant time - a whole day spent working on the car might involve 10 minutes cleaning up at the end of it. Then when I get them out to work on something clean they don't add muck to the job. Whatever happened to "Look after your tools and they'll look after you."?

McBryce makes a valid point on where & how a tool is used; but even there I feel some minimums apply. I've worked in a number of garages, and yes... my power tools, meters and even my diag laptop all got a certain amount of grime on them. However, I draw the line at grunge heavy enough to affect the tool's usability. Even my ToughBook, used every day, had grunge and grime on the outside; but grubby keyboards and screens are not something I'll put up with ever. And even the outsides got a wipedown with alcohol or ZEP orange & Windex on a rag once or twice a week to keep the grunge to a manageable level.

Another point I saw raised; aboot how "They're not paying me to clean my tools all day..." yeah, that's weapons-grade bullshit. 

IME, without exception, if you're working somewhere that does not allot a certain amount of time every day to tool maintenance on the clock, it is time to start looking for somewhere else to work. It may take time to see the rest of it, but that attitude from an employer is part of a constellation of employee abuses, intended to belittle and devalue the employee and their investment in tools and expertise.

You can do better.

And if you are self-employed, it is time for a change in management.

mnem
*toolish*

[Cerebus]

Cats also have zero sense of personal space. some dogs have.

Cats have a perfectly good sense of personal space. Invade their personal space when they deem it inappropriate and you'll discover why a zoologist's description of a cat is "long-backed, retractable-clawed killing machine". It's just that they have not deemed us worthy of being granted personal space except, possibly, on special occassions.

Cats have an overweening sense of self importance. Ask any cat and they will tell you that they are the most important person in the room. Having been around a lot of cats and a lot of humans, I begin to find myself siding with the cats on that point. 

[GreyWoolfe]

Yes, but dogs don't usually pee/poop in your shoes when they're mad at you. Or always find the laundry pile of all your good dress clothes to have a litter on. 

mnem
Cats also have zero sense of personal space. some dogs have.

Or pee/poop in your clean laundry basket, not the dirty one, the clean one.  Also no stinky litter basket, the dogs do a very good job of letting us know they want out.  So glad the damn cats left when the daughter moved out.  My dogs have zero sense of personal space and I love it that way.

[mansaxel]

@captn Bullshot: the fishnchips is from Hooksiel which is near Rüstersiel to the East, Harlesiel / Carolinensiel /Neuharlingersiel to the West. Greetsiel is nearer to Norden.

Yes, we have a lot of *siel up here.

So near Bremerhaven (itself near Hamburg) for those who want to look it up in an atlas rather than on a local map. 

Ackshually, with that evil-empire map service, I type "Hooksiel" in and then I can, taking cue from Saskia's first post, focus on the Außenhafen, and lo and behold:

[mnementh]

 Looks like a BabelFish. 

mnem
*toddles off to... something. *

[Specmaster]

To all the stoopit shit we did for much too little money as a youth!!!

mnem
And yet, having learnt those lessons by the skin of our teeth and by example of those who did not live to tell the tale... we still went ahead and had children.

Not all of us. SWMBO and I decided on a dog. We can always borrow  child for a wile if we need confirmation we were right.

We tried both.  Kid has been mostly well-behaved all week.  The dog Hell-hound has been a PITA.   Earlier this week, the dog went through the chain-link fence.   (Note: need to redo the photo.  Glare obscures the gaping hole.) 

EDIT:  Chain-link is 9 AWG vinyl coated steel.  Currently waiting for quotes for 120 feet of 6 AWG chain-link.  That is going to blow the TEA budget for a long time...   

I was looking at a 850g piece of entrecôte (snip)

I was looking at a full BBQ chicken sitting on the back burner of the stove.  Looked away to answer the kid on something.  Looked back and there was no more chicken. Chicken was taken away from the dog with great difficulty (no reward for bad behaviour). Had leftover spaghetti for supper...

Yeah, that is a problem with dogs, should have got a cat.

Yes, but dogs don't usually pee/poop in your shoes when they're mad at you. Or always find the laundry pile of all your good dress clothes to have a litter on. 

mnem
Cats also have zero sense of personal space. some dogs have.

My cats don't do things like that, and as they were both spayed as kittens, no chance of having a litter on our good clean clothes, and they also have their own beds, one each, nice little round fluffy ones they are, and yes, they are spoilt rotten, I don't open the door and shove them outside like it seems lots of people do. Pisses me off when I see cats having to live most of their lives outside with bowls of food left at the front door for them and a cardboard box to sleep in,  Cats and dogs are what you make them into being, I have many cats in my life and also a dog and I have always been brought with one or the other as a pet throughout my childhood and I've never known any of them to be naughty like that or destructive. 

[Specmaster]

Yes, but dogs don't usually pee/poop in your shoes when they're mad at you. Or always find the laundry pile of all your good dress clothes to have a litter on. 

mnem
Cats also have zero sense of personal space. some dogs have.

Or pee/poop in your clean laundry basket, not the dirty one, the clean one.  Also no stinky litter basket, the dogs do a very good job of letting us know they want out.  So glad the damn cats left when the daughter moved out.  My dogs have zero sense of personal space and I love it that way.

My cats would prefer to go and bury theirs in the garden rather use their indoor tray, they are clean girls 

[Cerebus]

"nice little round fluffy [cat beds]" indeed. This used to be my chair:

[Specmaster]

Quick update for those playing at home, following my sore throat progress, I did get a CV test and well I'm afraid to have to tell you all that I'm not suffering from CV after all, it is just a bad cold and throat is responding well to honey and lemon drinks, throat sweets and lots of yoghurt 

[Vince]

The arrow indicates where the cat OUGHT to be but... all I see is a black hole... has the cat disappeared into a parallel universe or something ??

[Cerebus]

It's all hallows eve, samhain, when the walls between the worlds are thin. On a night like that, who knows exactly where she is?

[mansaxel]

Oltronix update:

Have been to work for a small operation in broadcast control networking, took the opportunity to schlep the PSU home.

Initial observations and preliminary analysis:

• The Rifa Madness had Oltronix in a firm grip. Not only the usual X2 firecracker, but also DC smoothers, a major battery of them.
• The pots for the two 0-30V outputs run nice and smooth. But there's no output. One O/P is 0V, the other -0,4V and won't leave CC mode. Naïve guess is blown O/P transistors, but they're not checked yet.
• The 0-6V output had a jammed pot, which turned out to be the display counter. It has been improved by lubrication after deliberate opening up and reassembly. Not good yet, but better. And the output is 100mV below indication, but that's most likely a result of opening the connection between multiturn pot and display.
• The power switch has some yucky contamination on the solder joints. Will try cleaning and reflowing. It still works.

This is much more of a project than my earlier forays into bench PSU land with the -hp- ones. The only docs I have found are at Radiomuseum, so if I can get them out I'll post them without such limitations as are employed there..

[AVGresponding]

My Fluke meters looked as dirty as that one above after just one job on-site when I was an electrician.
Ain't nobody got time to spit polish a work tool 5 times a day, just like no-one details their car after every drive.
Clients aren't gonna pay me to sit there and wash and wax my test gear...

I cleaned my gear at the end of the week, but workshops be dusty and sites be dirty so mucky meters are inevitable.

I can understand that. But the Fluke mentioned above is far beyond one day / one dirty job site filthy. 

Not sure why you think his response is "lame", he clearly explains it to my mind:

"The Fluke is used all day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year, and is about 6 or 7 years old.
I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.

If I thought it would improve its performance by constantly cleaning it, I might consider doing that.  As it is, it has a job to do and it does it very well."

My personal choice would be to glove up to avoid the muck, but even doing that if you handle the meter with the gloves still on you're getting it mucky.

The parallel argument would be "This body is in use all day, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. I get grubby amps and PA speakers and the like in every day, so yes, it does become grubby too.". Would you also consider that an acceptable argument for not cleaning his body from time to time? No? That's why it's a lame answer.

To me, letting your tools or test gear (or for that matter your body) get into that state belies a certain attitude. One that if you aren't minded to maintain your tooling implies something about what attitude you're going to bring to the things you use them on. My tools see muck all the time, if they look or feel mucky they get cleaned before getting put away into the tool box, tool chest or wherever they live when not being actively used. It doesn't even take any significant time - a whole day spent working on the car might involve 10 minutes cleaning up at the end of it. Then when I get them out to work on something clean they don't add muck to the job. Whatever happened to "Look after your tools and they'll look after you."?

That's not a parallel argument, it's a specious one.

In any case you don't know if he cleans the loose off at the end of the day and doesn't regard that as "cleaning" because he doesn't scrub the ground-in stuff off.

We all have different points at which we consider something "clean" or "dirty". Personally I can't stand grubby controls and screens, but idgaf about old cal or asset stickers, nor ground-in grime; if anything I regard those as a visible trace of the item's history.
If it's sticky or greasy, or is encrusted, I'll clean it off as best I can, but not to the point of spotlessness.

[Vince]

Oh no...... all of a sudden my computer just shut down... out of the blue ! 
I press the Power button... nithin happens. Press again... powers up, HHD spins up.... but nothing more, blakc screen, frozen...
Press the Reset button... starts up.... but BVIOS freezes midway. Press Reset button again.... phew,  it boots properly.

Did the same thing a week or two ago.... for the past few years it did similar stuff but only after a grid power cut, not on its own....

Computer is 15+ years old now, planned on replacing it within 6 months at best, 9 or 12 maybe.

Now wondering if it will get that far..crossing fingers.

Why it it decides to worsen just when I am jobless with zero money to put into a new computer ?
Maybe I could replace the PSU but... that would be wasted money since I will replace the computer so soon and would not be able to reuse the PSU on a modern machine. Plus PSU so probably obsolete and I can't even buy a new on anyway....
Plus, who said it's the PSU ? Maybe it's the mother board... can't replace that, obsolete too.

I am screwed. Will just have to cross fingers that it holds up a few more months.

Might start doing regular backups... have two identical HDD on the machine, 500GB spinning Samsung drives. Using only one, other is for backup...
Can't use external backup as machine has no fast I/O ports, just old USB.

If I disappear all of a sudden you will know what happened... please send your donations to Iamscrewed@TEA.fr so I can buy a new computer.