Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

Better / more serious dictionnary would the " Robert ".

Which in my book (pun intended) has always been the less respectable one of the two.

That's strange, the Larousse has always been the dictionary for the masses, that doesn't care at all what words actually mean, but rather casts in stone / validates what people in the street actually wrongly want a word to mean, usually out of ignorance and laziness.

But again I am not into OT stuff anymore so every one is entitled to have his own opinion of course, I am no Dragon for sure.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter a rats ass since people here don't use dictionaries any more, and have not for at least 20 years since mobile phones and broadband started flooding the market.
Here nobody gives a crap any longer if what they write or say actually means anything in French. There is no grammar anymore, no punctuation, no spelling, no nothing... it's just a complete shit show. I have given up.
At school you get to pass to the next class even if you completely failed at learning the basic skills reading writing counting etc...

I guess only foreign people like you actually give a crap how to write French properly. Just like I give a crap and try to improve my English skills as I go, even though the actual native English or American people, judging by all the comments in Youtube videos comment sections... actually don't even possess the English level of a 5 year old... still, I don't resort to the lowest common denominator and try to write as best I can...

[ch_scr]

After a little UART serial port interrogation, the raspberry pi is back online (literally).
Turns out the (updated) driver decided the device it creates is no longer called "wlan0" but "wlx1008c11aa1ac" instead.
Because obviously it should be called that Do I have to mention it is a broadcom device?

[mnementh]

You guys are talking aboot the difference between marketing wank and motorheads.

No real gearhead would be caught dead calling any passenger car a coupe; the term is reserved for vehicles that carry at most a driver and a navigator. The confusion over the "cut of the body" comes from conflation with the "roadster" body style, wherein the cockpit literally ends at the back of the driver's seat and the body begins. A coupe may have enough space behind the seats to stow a courier bag.

A Corvette (well, the ones from my youth) is a coupe. A Coupe De Ville is not.

mnem

[med6753]

You guys are talking aboot the difference between marketing wank and motorheads.

No real gearhead would be caught dead calling any passenger car a coupe; the term is reserved for vehicles that carry at most a driver and a navigator. The confusion over the "cut of the body" comes from conflation with the "roadster" body style, wherein the cockpit literally ends at the back of the driver's seat and the body begins. A coupe may have enough space behind the seats to stow a courier bag.

A Corvette (well, the ones from my youth) is a coupe. A Coupe De Ville is not.

mnem

Well then call me a wank. Despite your continuing whining my Civic, in broad definitions, is a 2 door coupe. Like it or lump it.

Here's some cheese to go with your whining.   

[mnementh]

Watch it with the wanking; you just got that thing back. 

2 door sedan. Grandma's grocery-getter. Or in my case, young punk kid's 2nd through 4th (and then some) hoopty. 

mnem
Whinge all you want. It's still a sedan. 

[mnementh]

On the TinkerDwagon's Bench today:

Picked up this DOA Roomba yesterday to get the charger base and Virtual Wall lighthouses that came with it; turns out it is several generations newer than the one I have, and it comes with a Li-xx power pack.

Opening the pack is dead-easy; it has a heavy metal plate and slugs inside so weight matches the original Ni-xx (the drive wheels are spring-loaded, so total weight matters), so a few screws hold it together. Testing shows one cell approx 1 volt low; right now I'm trying to get just that one cell to a state of charge similar to the other three in hopes the BMS will allow the pack to start charging normally.

If that is successful, I should be able to do IR testing on the individual cells to see if it really is a sick cell or if just a slight imbalance just got amplified by disuse and/or multiple charge/discharge cycles.

If I can't get the BMS to charge, I'll probably have to remove it and solder a JST/XH pigtail on the cell cluster so I can balance charge with the Reaktor.

Normally this kind of dickery with individual cells is a fool's errand; one is better off rebuilding the pack with known-good or new matched cells. But given the model, this pack is probably 3-5 years old; so it is possible I'll get lucky.

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

As I predicted it's getting closer. 2 C here this morning. Albany, 70 miles north, 1 C. Saratoga Springs, 30 miles north of Albany, -1 C. Winter is coming. 

Lake Placid in the Adirondacks is -2 C.

Not far away in the GWN, we have already had heavy frost a couple of times.
Remnants of the garden are surviving only because I have been covering it up with a tarp at night.

Winter tires required in slightly less than 3 weeks now.  That and car rustproofing (ok, it only slows it down, not proofing) are still on the ToDo list...

BC has you beaten. AvE posted a video of his new puppy playing in about 6 inches of snow nearly two weeks ago.

[Specmaster]

Where is Vince on this one?  We need official interpretation of a french word.

Was hoping to stay away from OT stuff from now on, but if people are talking to me I guess it would be rude to ignore them so....

Styling of the roofline makes sense in this case.  Coupe comes, AFAIK, from the word coupé, which means something (roofline) was cut off (couper = to cut).

Basically that's it, congratulations ! 

" Coupe " does not come from " Coupé ".. it's the same word but the yanks as always are too lazy so first thing they do with French words is to drop the accents because it makes it easier for them.  Just like people say " Cafe " instead of " Café ", for example.  Then they start concatenating the words to make it a single word... like  " Dejavu ", which is normally two words + two accents : " Déjà vu ". (meaning " already seen ") Etc etc...

Or when they say "Cab" as a short for " Cabriolet ".

As for Station Wagon versus Estate.... in France we say " a Break car "...  Break sounds English but since even the Brits or Yanks don't use it, no sure why we use this word !      Maybe that was our way long ago to shorten " Shooting break " ?!... who knows.

According to Google translate the word Coupe means the following:-

Definitions of coupe
noun
1 a car with a fixed roof, two doors, and a sloping rear.
2 historical a four-wheeled enclosed carriage for two passengers and a driver.
3 an end compartment in a railroad car, with seats on only one side.
4 a shallow glass or glass dish, typically with a stem, in which desserts or champagne are served.
"serve the jelly in a coupe with whipped cream"

So taking that as a guide, the Brits are using Coupe incorrectly then, the Rover Coupe as in my post is in fact a 4-door car with a fixed roof a sloping rear.

I always understood it to mean (in the car world) a car with a lowered roofline and sloping downwards at the rear of the roof, which is exactly what the Rover 3.5 Coupe has when compared with its saloon variant. so it seems that in modern era, words can be used in whatever way marketing Dept deem fit 

[Vince]

Spec just call it whatever you want.... I mean people call their modern fancy SUV a "car", even though it's a small truck. So calling a Sedan a Coupé is a minor adjustment in comparison...in my view.

[Vince]

TE if still allowed here.

Metrix Wobuloscope back on the bench. Now the center of my attention, it's its turn. I give myself 3 days to study the service manual to understand how it works in detail and diagnose and fix it if I can. If after 3 days I still cannot get my head around it then too bad, will sell it as is.. but if I can make it perform better, or ensure it actually performs properly as it stands, then I can use that to ask more money for it...

At the least I would like to see what hole I can/should shove a probe into to check the raw output of the wobulator. If I can see RF, wobbling as well while we are at it, I would be very much happy.

I pulled the innards out of the big cabinet so I can see what's going on while it's running, and probe around in case I am daring enough. Maybe I should buy thick rubber gloves... but I have big hands and gloves of all kinds are only up to size " 10 " which is not quite large enough for me. Would need size 11 if it existed at all, which it probably does not.

[dl6lr]

We need official interpretation of a french word.

I'm not Vince, but Larousse (the French dictionary) offers the following definitions:

Actually The Larousse is NOT " the" dictionary... quite the opposite it's a very complacent dictionary that every year incorporates completely silly words just because the random clueless uneducated joe in the street uses them... then moves on two years later but too late they are now polluting the dictionary and won't be taken away from it before at least 25 years...

Better / more serious dictionary would be the " Robert ".

Reminds me on the "Micro Robert", a dictionary (at my time in school) too heavy to be carried (trolleys were unknown at that time). I never wanted to know how much the "real" Robert is... Unnecessary to note that I gave up french as soon as I could (there were too many courses with -in my mind- unnecessary topics and too few with science)

[Neomys Sapiens]

As for ugly, I see your Pacer and raise you  a Multipla.

Are there ANY Fiats that aren't fugly? 

I think that we can let the rugged beauty of all the 66xx FIAT products pass.

[mansaxel]

I've just got a few Wemos D1 clones from The Middle Kingdom. The first two applications of course are measurement. In case 1, it's off of the electrical meter, which is new and smart and has a serial port, giving off a reading either every 1 or 10 seconds, including voltage, current, power, and cumulative values, for all three phases, and aggregates.  The second case is a simple DC volt meter using a divider and the analog input. The object is a 24V bank which will supply a number of different consumers, among those my broadband media converter. Most consumers will take that 24V and buck it down to something useful, so there should be ample headroom, but I want to know if things go south, so bus voltage is important. Error message planned is obvious.

[tonyalbus]

Just bought a 34401A 
and i already have an SDM3065X-SC   

i hope it arrives as good as on the pictures.

[Cerebus]

Spec just call it whatever you want.... I mean people call their modern fancy SUV a "car", even though it's a small truck. So calling a Sedan a Coupé is a minor adjustment in comparison...in my view.

The proper term of the art in English for an SUV is "Chelsea Tractor".

[dl6lr]

Some more digging into the -hp- 5245L with serial prefix 408:

Replaced some capacitors without much gain in terms of fixed issues. Counter is counting in CHECK and START mode on the last digit only. So measured the gate from the first decimal counter assembly A17(4), which is mainly working as the display assembly A18 is showing the correct counts, and found it to be stuck at +20V. WTF? The output is expected to be pulsed -15V/0V and the input on A16( is expected to have a coupling capacitor.

So I pulled out all other decimal counter assemblies A10 to A16. output A17(4) is -15V without pulses. So checked the A16 assembly and found it is missing the coupling capacitor but goes direct to a clamping diode to +20V (similar to the boards A10 to A14). I already observed a difference in board population, the service manual says the boards A10 to A14 should be 5212L-4A and A15/A16 should be 05232-6010. In my device the boards were populated A10=05232-6010 and A11 to A16 are 05212-6016. The latter are not mentioned in any service manual I have and hp states them to be 600kc decimal counters only, so this one will not work in position A16 where 5Mc are expected. And I guess the former owner swapped boards without knowing that this caused havoc at the first decimal counter.

So tested the output stage of A17 and found Q9 to be dead (open emitter). Installed was a 2N2455, service manual says 1850-0163 which would be 2N2635. 2N2943 or 2N2048 should be fine too. But I have neither of them. Tried to replace with a silicon PNP without luck, have to measure the pulse at the base now.

A quick reply, I think all seven boards are replacements, the manual from Artek is a little newer.
I can't see how they wouldn't work at a lower speed, with the 5MHz board in the correct position, just you wouldn't get the full 50MC.

David

I have the artek manual for the 5245L issued 1965. I have the service manual from BAMA or KO4BB for instruments serial prefix 628 as well.  I see no signs of these board revisions. The artek manual however includes six revisions of the A15/A16 boards. And they state the two high speed boards to be used, maybe the boards 5212L-4A are even slower than the 600kc of the 05232-6016?

When I received the counter (serial prefix 408, clearly marked as defective) the higher speed board however was populated at the upper most digit, so getting the lowest frequency But board and nixie are defective, so I think he swapped the boards to get a 7 digit counter but broke the high speed decimal counter. Will try to fix the board (more than one digit is lighting) which should be doable unless the photocoupler assembly is bad.
On wednesday I get another 5245L with serial prefix 504, let's see what's inside

Manual prefix 408 has: five of 5212L-4A (low frequency) fitted for A10 to A14, two of 5232L-4B (5MC) fitted for A15 & A16, 5245A-65C for A17 and 5245L-4B for A18. These numbers should be printed on the chassis next to the connectors.

OK, your 5245L has definitely had a replacement set of boards, they match what is fitted to my 1840A prefix 5245L, six of 05212-6016 fitted for A10 to A15, one of 05232-6010 fitted for A16 and it has 5245L-4B for A18, ignore A17 as it's a lot newer.


I have manual prefix 716 that covers 05212-6016 (600KC) and 05232-6010 (5MC), can take pictures of the diagrams if needed.

Manual prefix 408 has A17 (5245A-65C) Q9 & Q10 as 1850-0102 = 2N2455.
Manual prefix 716 has A17 (5245A-65C) Q9 as 1850-0158, but no ordinary part given, Q10 same as above (2N2455).

Note: there are minor component value differences on boards with the same part number, this will be most confusing if the manual doesn't cover the prefix of the unit, or if later boards have been fitted. 

Has your 5245L been serviced by hp in the past maybe? and they fitted the newer boards. Then years later someone attempted a repair, by incorrectly swapping boards.

David

Thanks for the offer with the manual schematics, if required I can order the newer artek manual and hope this will be covered. But I doubt I need it.
Tried to measure the pulse at the base of Q9 with a scope and failed, before the capacitor the levels are about 15V and 12.5V with sharp edges, clearly visible on the scope. Removed Q9 again and found no visible scope trigger after the RC. The differentiator is made of C21 with 82p and R52 510R, both measuring OK. This should be a high pass with about 3.8Mc giving short pulses. Maybe have to use a faster scope... I thought that should be OK with a silicon PNP at that stage. 2N2455 has high ft > 600Mc, the PNP I dropped in was a BC557 with about 200Mc, maybe too slow. Will try to change Q10 to a silicon for a test, if this works at that stage I will use the 2N2455 as Q9 for testing.
Just put those 15 pin board connectors in my DK basket, will produce extender boards for testing.

Edit: 1850-0158 is 2N2635 according to -hp- owns part list: http://hparchive.com/PARTS/HP-Parts-List-1973-74.pdf

[mnementh]

Spec just call it whatever you want.... I mean people call their modern fancy SUV a "car", even though it's a small truck. So calling a Sedan a Coupé is a minor adjustment in comparison...in my view.

The proper term of the art in English for an SUV is "Chelsea Tractor".

LOL... I know it's just words. I just don't like lying to myself aboot things.

Here's the heirarchy the way I see it:

Station Wagon: What you need to trade the fun car or pickup in for when you grow up and have a passel of kids.
Suburban: What you get when you don't want to admit you need a station wagon.
Mini-Van: What you get when you don't want to admit you need a Suburban.
SUV: What you get when you don't want to admit you need a Mini-Van.
Crossover: Awww fuck; it's a station wagon. Just admit it. 

mnem

[factory]

On the repair front, I opened up my recently acquired HP 334A Distortion Analyzer.

Looks like it's due for a full recap... Some of the Vishay Sprague 30D caps are well on their way to turning themselves inside-out... 
I think I might just replace them with radial United Chemicons, the 30D's aren't anything particularly special, just a general purpose cap, and for the amount of caps I need for this unit, I'd be spending over $150 on 30D caps alone... Even low ESR KY(x) series United Chemicons are almost an order of magnitude cheaper and the technology is much newer too...

While I'm at it, I might replace all the nasty drifty and noisy carbon composite resistors with equivalent 50/100ppm 1% metal film types as I can get them cheap in Akihabara.

Besides that, it looks almost as clean inside as the day it was made.

Not sure why those caps have failed in your 334A, looks quite a bit newer than my 333A, also appears most of the carbon comps are already carbon film in your 334A (except that one on the switch).


David

[factory]

I have the artek manual for the 5245L issued 1965. I have the service manual from BAMA or KO4BB for instruments serial prefix 628 as well.  I see no signs of these board revisions. The artek manual however includes six revisions of the A15/A16 boards. And they state the two high speed boards to be used, maybe the boards 5212L-4A are even slower than the 600kc of the 05232-6016?

When I received the counter (serial prefix 408, clearly marked as defective) the higher speed board however was populated at the upper most digit, so getting the lowest frequency But board and nixie are defective, so I think he swapped the boards to get a 7 digit counter but broke the high speed decimal counter. Will try to fix the board (more than one digit is lighting) which should be doable unless the photocoupler assembly is bad.
On wednesday I get another 5245L with serial prefix 504, let's see what's inside

Manual prefix 408 has: five of 5212L-4A (low frequency) fitted for A10 to A14, two of 5232L-4B (5MC) fitted for A15 & A16, 5245A-65C for A17 and 5245L-4B for A18. These numbers should be printed on the chassis next to the connectors.

OK, your 5245L has definitely had a replacement set of boards, they match what is fitted to my 1840A prefix 5245L, six of 05212-6016 fitted for A10 to A15, one of 05232-6010 fitted for A16 and it has 5245L-4B for A18, ignore A17 as it's a lot newer.


I have manual prefix 716 that covers 05212-6016 (600KC) and 05232-6010 (5MC), can take pictures of the diagrams if needed.

Manual prefix 408 has A17 (5245A-65C) Q9 & Q10 as 1850-0102 = 2N2455.
Manual prefix 716 has A17 (5245A-65C) Q9 as 1850-0158, but no ordinary part given, Q10 same as above (2N2455).

Note: there are minor component value differences on boards with the same part number, this will be most confusing if the manual doesn't cover the prefix of the unit, or if later boards have been fitted. 

Has your 5245L been serviced by hp in the past maybe? and they fitted the newer boards. Then years later someone attempted a repair, by incorrectly swapping boards.

David

Thanks for the offer with the manual schematics, if required I can order the newer artek manual and hope this will be covered. But I doubt I need it.
Tried to measure the pulse at the base of Q9 with a scope and failed, before the capacitor the levels are about 15V and 12.5V with sharp edges, clearly visible on the scope. Removed Q9 again and found no visible scope trigger after the RC. The differentiator is made of C21 with 82p and R52 510R, both measuring OK. This should be a high pass with about 3.8Mc giving short pulses. Maybe have to use a faster scope... I thought that should be OK with a silicon PNP at that stage. 2N2455 has high ft > 600Mc, the PNP I dropped in was a BC557 with about 200Mc, maybe too slow. Will try to change Q10 to a silicon for a test, if this works at that stage I will use the 2N2455 as Q9 for testing.
Just put those 15 pin board connectors in my DK basket, will produce extender boards for testing.

Edit: 1850-0158 is 2N2635 according to -hp- owns part list: http://hparchive.com/PARTS/HP-Parts-List-1973-74.pdf

Here are a couple of pictures from the two manuals showing A17 Q9, seems to be mostly the same apart from R53, will double check against the parts list tomorrow night in case of an error, too late tonight, could we have a picture of the actual board fitted?


David

[mnementh]

On the TinkerDwagon's Bench today:   


If I can't get the BMS to charge, I'll probably have to remove it and solder a JST/XH pigtail on the cell cluster so I can balance charge with the Reaktor.

Normally this kind of dickery with individual cells is a fool's errand; one is better off rebuilding the pack with known-good or new matched cells. But given the model, this pack is probably 3-5 years old; so it is possible I'll get lucky.

Ugggh. BMS is totes being a whiny little bitch. 

Refuses to start/turn on to charge, so balance charging the pack on the Reaktor. Safety fuse tests good, each voltage monitor leg tests the same resistance FWD/REV EXCEPT cell 1; it measures approx 630KΩ/10MΩ where the others measure ~5MΩ/10MΩ. This may or may not be a bad thing; cell 1 is where the BMS usually draws power for the supervisor chip.

It is entirely possible the pack sat unused long enough for this miniscule drain to have drawn cell 1 down to the point where the BMS shut down due to imbalance; only time will tell.

mnem
 

[tautech]

On the TinkerDwagon's Bench today:   


If I can't get the BMS to charge, I'll probably have to remove it and solder a JST/XH pigtail on the cell cluster so I can balance charge with the Reaktor.

Normally this kind of dickery with individual cells is a fool's errand; one is better off rebuilding the pack with known-good or new matched cells. But given the model, this pack is probably 3-5 years old; so it is possible I'll get lucky.

Ugggh. BMS is totes being a whiny little bitch. 

Refuses to start/turn on to charge, so balance charging the pack on the Reaktor. Safety fuse tests good, each voltage monitor leg tests the same resistance FWD/REV EXCEPT cell 1; it measures approx 630KΩ/10MΩ where the others measure ~5MΩ/10MΩ. This may or may not be a bad thing; cell 1 is where the BMS usually draws power for the supervisor chip.

It is entirely possible the pack sat unused long enough for this miniscule drain to have drawn cell 1 down to the point where the BMS shut down due to imbalance; only time will tell.

mnem
 

Exactly this happens in older Makita cordless tools and their smart chargers  would reject a well drained and forgotten pack after 3 attempts to charge it. 
We learnt to connect them to another source to get that one cell up some so the pack would be accepted and go on to charge. 
Really pissed off our eldest son Larry Major enough to use only Milwaukee tools now.

[nixiefreqq]

I AM CURED.......AND NO LONGER NEED THERAPY FOR TEA!!!!!!

you remember that dumont porta scope that i unloaded on some poor bastard a gentleman purchased from me a couple of years ago?

attended a hamfest over the weekend and it was on a table.

not only did i not buy it......but my feet kept movin' right past it!

(not completly true.  stopped just long enough to confirm that it was my old one.  there was no doubt it was the same unit.)



maybe i should write a self help book?

   

[duckduck]

Could somebody help me with this addiction? With all the ideas floating around in my head I see me falling into a rabbit hole that costs more and more money.

I think that the "help" that is on offer here may not be be in the best interests of your checking account balance.

This weekend I was hiking with the family and my phone pings. I check it and it's results from a saved search for "Fluke" on craigslist.org. Someone is selling a Fluke 77 with test leads for USD30 ( https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/kirkland-fluke-77-multimeter/7398312523.html ). My wife recognized my expression and looked at the screen. "No way!" she said.

"What?" I asked with mock surprise "I'm just looking..."

"You are like a heroin addict looking at different flavors of heroin."

I already have more Flukes than I am likely to ever use, so she's probably right. Someone buy that damn 77. That being said, I just made an offer on Ebay for a Fluke clamp-meter so I can get startup and running loads on some home electrical circuits to help me size an electrical generator. The wind in the Pacific Northwest just knocked out power for over 30,000 electrical customers (including me) yesterday. After we moved here it was fun the first couple of times, but it's just a pain in the neck now.

[Cerebus]

Could somebody help me with this addiction? With all the ideas floating around in my head I see me falling into a rabbit hole that costs more and more money.

I think that the "help" that is on offer here may not be be in the best interests of your checking account balance.

This weekend I was hiking with the family and my phone pings. I check it and it's results from a saved search for "Fluke" on craigslist.org. Someone is selling a Fluke 77 with test leads for USD30 ( https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/kirkland-fluke-77-multimeter/7398312523.html ). My wife recognized my expression and looked at the screen. "No way!" she said.

"What?" I asked with mock surprise "I'm just looking..."

"You are like a heroin addict looking at different flavors of heroin."

To which the correct diversion should have been "I wasn't aware that heroin came in different flavours, and I wonder how, dear wife, you are so knowledgeable on the subject. Is there something you need to tell me?". Remember, if you want to keep your TEA habit flourishing you occasional have to put SWMBO on the back foot. 

[med6753]

Could somebody help me with this addiction? With all the ideas floating around in my head I see me falling into a rabbit hole that costs more and more money.

I think that the "help" that is on offer here may not be be in the best interests of your checking account balance.

This weekend I was hiking with the family and my phone pings. I check it and it's results from a saved search for "Fluke" on craigslist.org. Someone is selling a Fluke 77 with test leads for USD30 ( https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/kirkland-fluke-77-multimeter/7398312523.html ). My wife recognized my expression and looked at the screen. "No way!" she said.

"What?" I asked with mock surprise "I'm just looking..."

"You are like a heroin addict looking at different flavors of heroin."

To which the correct diversion should have been "I wasn't aware that heroin came in different flavours, and I wonder how, dear wife, you are so knowledgeable on the subject. Is there something you need to tell me?". Remember, if you want to keep your TEA habit flourishing you occasional have to put SWMBO on the back foot. 

That is bad advice. Never engage a woman in direct back and forth of clever or witty remarks or putting them "on the back foot". Even if you win and achieve the high ground in the end you will lose. Women's egos do not allow them to be beaten at the games that they always play. They will extract revenge when you least expect it. It's part of their DNA. It's much better to let them have their say, acknowledge that they are always right, let their ego be stroked, and let it go. Or make them THINK that. Be more subtle in your activities and hopefully keep it under their radar. Just don't get caught or there will be hell to pay. Yes, this is hard to do when UPS, FedEx, Hermes, or whatever shows up everyday with packages.