Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Best Translation of the day award goes to...   

Sorry... I was too busy watching the quick brown fox jump over the lazy dog.

PAIN ITSELF... Hmmm. Now is that supposed to be the label on the switch, or the brand name...? 

mnem
Hey, no worse than the Fine Crack brand earbud FM radio I had for a while... 

[mnementh]

The seller of the meter collecton offered a partial refund of £5 which I accepted. So my £20 Fluke 11 is now a £15 Fluke. Took it apart and cleaned the zebra strip and  works. The Micronta is next.

IIRC (it's probably been 15-20 years since I last took one of these apart), the retainer clips around the seam on those can be quite stubborn, and as old as it is probably now also a bit brittle. A bit of heat will help here. Also, I think there's a screw hiding under a label on the back. Press/feel for it.

Good luck!

mnem
 

[mnementh]

   

https://www.pishop.ca/product/raspberry-pi-400-complete-kit/

Looks like the ol' Sinclair ZX81 has finally come full-circle... 

mnem

[dl6lr]

Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.

The rectifier and regulators boards are identical and they carry the numbers of the 5243.
Both counters share the same power supply with the three 2N301 pass transistors (I just found that I have 2 of them). The service manuals warns that these will go south along with the rectifiers on a short circuit (during measurements). The regulation is a bit strange with the +20V floating on the regulated +13V and the SM states to set the +20V with the control for the +7V regulator first. The SM states the reference zener to be 7V, but on my board it measures as 3.9V and it is different from the two other 7V zeners.

[dl6lr]

Think this seller is hoarding them all,
https://www.ebay.de/itm/224043034507
Not a very good price, hence why they still have them, but probably cheaper than importing from the US.


Or do what I did and buy more vintage h- TEA, until you have many.

Alternately there is this dodgy looking 3DP thing here,
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4862134
I think the choice of crimps is unsafe, they need to be split and/or springy, to be a decent electrical connection as the originals. If only someone could re-design it to fit some decent sprung socket crimp contacts.



The guy I bought my hp 5248M from had used bullet crimps and had complained he got a slight shock from the casing, to me they were a poor connection and they quickly got thrown out after I acquired it.


Oh and clean the pins in the sockets, same would apply to 50 year old IEC inlets.

Edit: Almost forgot this abomination that came with my hp 101A. 


David

P.S I remember Vince was building a garage, think he first mentioned it when commenting on the shortage of drivers for digging the foundation.

Just a small remark: I can not recommend the seller of the cables. The cable arrived but it is very dirty and tacky, nothing you would normally offer anyone. At least not for that price. Had to scrub it very thoroughly, now drying.

For the 3d printed thing: I just run a test print. I found the recommended crimp contacts should have springiness, as they are slotted.

And guess how I contacted the 163 prong for testing (using an isolation variac)...

[25 CPS]

Uh oh.

What’s in the Newark box that UPS dropped off?  What test equipment is waiting downstairs after charging up overnight in anticipation of its arrival?



Shower, get the smoker lit and some beef on, then it’s test equipment time.

[mnementh]

...Alternately there is this dodgy looking 3DP thing here,
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4862134
I think the choice of crimps is unsafe, they need to be split and/or springy, to be a decent electrical connection as the originals. If only someone could re-design it to fit some decent sprung socket crimp contacts.      

...For the 3d printed thing: I just run a test print. I found the recommended crimp contacts should have springiness, as they are slotted.

And guess how I contacted the 163 prong for testing (using an isolation variac)...

I have misgivings re: using such low-temp thermoplastic for a plug-in mains connector. I would like to see at least room for secondary insulation around those contacts; ideally rubberized 'glas tubing sleeves, but at least a bit of heat-shrink.

PETG/ABS would be a much better choice, as their glass transition temp (where it starts to get soft) is ~90/100 degrees C vs PLA at ~65 degrees; but they are even harder to get a decent result with FDM printing on the kind of fine detail needed for the narrow channels in this design.

Of course, I've seen oodles of molded ABS used in the US for AC line plugs; not sure what the regulations elsewhere would be like.

But good that you were at least able to try it and confirm dimensional compatibility.

mnem
Any way you do it, a invitation to a buttload of misery; either from doing it the right way or doing it wrong.

[mansaxel]

Today's arrival: A 5-pack of ESP8266 with wifi and accompanying piggyback expander boards. Going to connect to my smart meter and see what comes out of that.  Downside is that I probably will have to install Home Assistant too.

Shipping again was via OrangeConnex, and no protection racket was exercised by PostMord. 15 days from Shenzen. Small plastic bags with counterfeit goods from China is in style after being impractical for some time.

[mansaxel]

Any way you do it, a invitation to a buttload of misery; either from doing it the right way or doing it wrong.

The right way is to kill that "163" crap and install a "mickey mouse", ie. IEC 60320 C6. Unless you are building a museum. Me, I'm building a working shop with boat anchors, and I'll make them reasonably safe.

[McBryce]

Picked a great day to skive off kite fishing as nothing much happening here.
Caught a feed for the mate and I but nothing more. 

It was long overdue to have the rig see the light of day...one like this:
https://www.fishingtacklesale.co.nz/product/810164

So wait... what...?

You actually wanted to catch something...? 

That's just unnatural. Contravenes the whole purpose of going fishing; to kill a few bottles with your mate while enjoying a beautiful day out on a boat or on a sandbar...

As soon as you catch something, then you have to do work.

ewwwwwww.

mnem
*well-known to tie a bobber and nothing else on the end of his line*

I find it more worrying that he's so eager to post pictures of his tackle on the internet! 

McBryce.

[mnementh]

     BWAHAHAHA!!!

Worse yet... pictures of his tackle for sale on the internet. 

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

   

https://www.pishop.ca/product/raspberry-pi-400-complete-kit/

Looks like the ol' Sinclair ZX81 has finally come full-circle... 

mnem

You're neatly a year late coming to the party on that one. We all barfed at the colour scheme on that when it came out in ... [looks up]... November last year. And yes, ZX81 and commodore 64 comparisons were made.

[med6753]

Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.

The rectifier and regulators boards are identical and they carry the numbers of the 5243.
Both counters share the same power supply with the three 2N301 pass transistors (I just found that I have 2 of them). The service manuals warns that these will go south along with the rectifiers on a short circuit (during measurements). The regulation is a bit strange with the +20V floating on the regulated +13V and the SM states to set the +20V with the control for the +7V regulator first. The SM states the reference zener to be 7V, but on my board it measures as 3.9V and it is different from the two other 7V zeners.

Don't you just love it when the documentation and what sits on your bench don't match? I see it ALL the time with Tek stuff. Tek was always changing/improving stuff and after all these years the correct docs to reflect those changes may not have been captured in someone's stash.

[Cerebus]

Any way you do it, a invitation to a buttload of misery; either from doing it the right way or doing it wrong.

The right way is to kill that "163" crap and install a "mickey mouse", ie. IEC 60320 C6. Unless you are building a museum. Me, I'm building a working shop with boat anchors, and I'll make them reasonably safe.

I'm rather fond of the C5/C6 combination. Makes a lot more sense for low powered things than the comparatively bulky C13/C14. Most TE, much computer equipment and most home entertainment would be more than adequately supplied by a C6/C7 (2.5A - 575VA in civilisation) instead of the ubiquitous C13/C14 (10A - 2300VA). But there's the rub - "ubiquitous". I can count on one hand how many C5 mains cables I have in the house, I'd need to get several of the neighbours in and get them to take off their shoes before i could count up the number of C13 leads in the house.

[25 CPS]

Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.

The rectifier and regulators boards are identical and they carry the numbers of the 5243.
Both counters share the same power supply with the three 2N301 pass transistors (I just found that I have 2 of them). The service manuals warns that these will go south along with the rectifiers on a short circuit (during measurements). The regulation is a bit strange with the +20V floating on the regulated +13V and the SM states to set the +20V with the control for the +7V regulator first. The SM states the reference zener to be 7V, but on my board it measures as 3.9V and it is different from the two other 7V zeners.

Don't you just love it when the documentation and what sits on your bench don't match? I see it ALL the time with Tek stuff. Tek was always changing/improving stuff and after all these years the correct docs to reflect those changes may not have been captured in someone's stash.

This happens all the time with H. H. Scott tube hi fi equipment...

[factory]

Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.

The rectifier and regulators boards are identical and they carry the numbers of the 5243.
Both counters share the same power supply with the three 2N301 pass transistors (I just found that I have 2 of them). The service manuals warns that these will go south along with the rectifiers on a short circuit (during measurements). The regulation is a bit strange with the +20V floating on the regulated +13V and the SM states to set the +20V with the control for the +7V regulator first. The SM states the reference zener to be 7V, but on my board it measures as 3.9V and it is different from the two other 7V zeners.

Don't you just love it when the documentation and what sits on your bench don't match? I see it ALL the time with Tek stuff. Tek was always changing/improving stuff and after all these years the correct docs to reflect those changes may not have been captured in someone's stash.

hp are no different, particularly for things that had a long production run such as the 524xL series, early 60's ones were mostly Germanium, later a mix of Silicon & Germanium and finally a mix of transistors & IC's, even the neon/photo-resistor based decoders for the displays got replaced with IC's.
The late 5245L manuals are fairly good for most changes, but hopeless for the early stuff. I have quite a few editions of the manual, might even have something to match the 1964 variant.

Also they hp had a bad habit of updating the circuit diagram, but forgetting to change the parts location picture.

David

[med6753]

Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.

The rectifier and regulators boards are identical and they carry the numbers of the 5243.
Both counters share the same power supply with the three 2N301 pass transistors (I just found that I have 2 of them). The service manuals warns that these will go south along with the rectifiers on a short circuit (during measurements). The regulation is a bit strange with the +20V floating on the regulated +13V and the SM states to set the +20V with the control for the +7V regulator first. The SM states the reference zener to be 7V, but on my board it measures as 3.9V and it is different from the two other 7V zeners.

Don't you just love it when the documentation and what sits on your bench don't match? I see it ALL the time with Tek stuff. Tek was always changing/improving stuff and after all these years the correct docs to reflect those changes may not have been captured in someone's stash.

This happens all the time with H. H. Scott tube hi fi equipment...

Yea, I've seen that too several times with u tuber's and their audio equipment. Unless you are lucky enough to get the hardcopy manual that came with the equipment, and all the updates, you have to always be aware that what you find may not match.

Edit....and as David mentioned equipment with a long production run, like those hp's, the docs are a total crap shoot.

[Zucca]

Downside is that I probably will have to install Home Assistant too.

I am planning to install HA for a long time, but first I need to wire up the 220V in my US home.
Let me know how it goes.

Shipping again was via OrangeConnex, and no protection racket was exercised by PostMord. 15 days from Shenzen. Small plastic bags with counterfeit goods from China is in style after being impractical for some time.

Reminds me to order my Xmas present now before the massive December shit show of logistic tragedy will be played this year too.
I mean the harbors are already on their knees now, imagine in what will happen in late nov-dec.

Even better, I think to 3D print all my presents..... this is my 2021 Xmas plan.

[Neper]

You're neatly a year late coming to the party on that one.

So, in best Sinclair style: always a year late and a few pounds short.

[factory]

Looking forward to seeing more pictures, here are same the pair of boards fitted to my 5243L, not much difference in the rectifier board, but regulator board has some older looking Zeners and I agree the original capacitors are long past their best, the 100uF had been replaced in the 70's & was fine (had to desolder to check).

Counter is s/n 408-00459 made in England, so way older than the service manual with series 628-xxxxx. No level control on the front, only sensitivity switch.

Inside not much dirt but some signs of corrosion, especially transistor caps on board A19, A20, A21, A35 in the bottom are dull. Boards A10..A14 are the same as A15, A16, so populated all medium frequency decimal counters where low frequency decimal counters would be required only. Board A10 is populated with different transistors, so maybe replaced once.

Measured the caps on board A7 as well as C4, C6..C10 to be fine with about nominal capacitance and low ESR, so fired the counter up and had at least some signs of life (will recap later).
First digit does not come up (bad nixie AND bad board A10, detected by swappings around), not counting right. Oscillator is working and oven heating. So have to invest some time for a more sophisticated analysis. A separate thread, I guess.

Odd, in the older 5243/5L boards A10 to A14 should be 5212L-4A, A15 & A16 are 5232L-4B and the high speed board pair A17 & A18 are 5245A-65C & 5245L-4B. Boards for later ones and the different BCD output options vary.
If you end up buying other hp counters & the 3440A voltmeter, you will find the low speed boards are a common part.

Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.

The rectifier and regulators boards are identical and they carry the numbers of the 5243.
Both counters share the same power supply with the three 2N301 pass transistors (I just found that I have 2 of them). The service manuals warns that these will go south along with the rectifiers on a short circuit (during measurements). The regulation is a bit strange with the +20V floating on the regulated +13V and the SM states to set the +20V with the control for the +7V regulator first. The SM states the reference zener to be 7V, but on my board it measures as 3.9V and it is different from the two other 7V zeners.

They should be identical, as the differences are in the front end boards and high speed dividers. I did notice a slight difference in the trace layout though.
I have a manual for the 408 prefix version in front of me (& 328 for 5243L), the circuit diagram shows 7V references for CR1, CR3 & CR4 on A7 (5243L book shows same), but the part numbers aren't, CR1 & CR3 are 1902-0017 (G31A-7A) and CR4 is 1902-0057 (G31A-7L).
According to both books the pass transistors are all 2N301, but one is 2N307 in my 5243L (all had been replaced at some point).

David

[factory]

Any way you do it, a invitation to a buttload of misery; either from doing it the right way or doing it wrong.

The right way is to kill that "163" crap and install a "mickey mouse", ie. IEC 60320 C6. Unless you are building a museum. Me, I'm building a working shop with boat anchors, and I'll make them reasonably safe.

No kill mickey mouse and all other Disney crap. 


David

[ch_scr]

Today's arrival: A 5-pack of ESP8266 with wifi and accompanying piggyback expander boards. Going to connect to my smart meter and see what comes out of that.  Downside is that I probably will have to install Home Assistant too.

Shipping again was via OrangeConnex, and no protection racket was exercised by PostMord. 15 days from Shenzen. Small plastic bags with counterfeit goods from China is in style after being impractical for some time.

Having also tried my hand at this at my parents house, this is what I can report:
It initially started with my father dabbeling in "node red" - which is an unstable mess of a dumpster fire, we could not even get it installed more than once and it keeps crashing every 2-3 months, warranting a hard reset of the pi.
Having looked at FHEM (try this if you are already fluent at perl, if not: stay the fuck away) and
OpenHAB (could not get the hang of it at all) last christmas vacation, HA came out on top. It does not crash like node red from nothing.
ALL of these systems depend on you to understand theire way of describing automation flows, the way they group things and so on, but while not perfect HA was at least not undecipherable.
Zigbee clients in general need a lot less power than the wlan one's. In general the strength of open source home automation is it is easy to add something to it.
Like, if you already have HA, adding an RPI zero with zigbee2mqtt and one of the recommended usb zigbee dongles opens up a world of compatible devices. (e.g. Philips hue, Ikea tradfri, chinese led strip controllers...)
Adding a reciever for enocean allows for touch-powered (battery-less) switches (stay away from there power hungry, hard to teach in actors!).
After getting it running initially, adding something onto it is often just a weekend's day away.
Think very hard if you want HA within a docker container - that allows for easy adding stuff like signal-message integration (that come as additional docker containers) or running it directly on a linux box (better performance, less moving parts, but good help you, if you decide you want one of the docker-contained addons).
This is but the first step of a long journey, but  and keep  IMHO the direction is good 

[mnementh]

   

https://www.pishop.ca/product/raspberry-pi-400-complete-kit/

Looks like the ol' Sinclair ZX81 has finally come full-circle... 

mnem

You're neatly a year late coming to the party on that one. We all barfed at the colour scheme on that when it came out in ... [looks up]... November last year. And yes, ZX81 and commodore 64 comparisons were made.

So, in best Sinclair style: always a year late and a few pounds short.

I thought that was the C64 reboot by RetroGames, INC...?  Who, BTW, are also supposedly soon going to release a phone-sized copy of the Amiga 500, complete with 25 games and the Amiga AGA.

Ahhh I remember now. I called the Pi400 "Xmas morning e-waste"... Still the case.

Guess that's how much of a impression it made on me... 

mnem
simply forgettable...

[Zucca]

Today's arrival: A 5-pack of ESP8266 with wifi and accompanying piggyback expander boards. Going to connect to my smart meter and see what comes out of that.  Downside is that I probably will have to install Home Assistant too.

Shipping again was via OrangeConnex, and no protection racket was exercised by PostMord. 15 days from Shenzen. Small plastic bags with counterfeit goods from China is in style after being impractical for some time.

Having also tried my hand at this at my parents house, this is what I can report:
It initially started with my father dabbeling in "node red" - which is an unstable mess of a dumpster fire, we could not even get it installed more than once and it keeps crashing every 2-3 months, warranting a hard reset of the pi.
Having looked at FHEM (try this if you are already fluent at perl, if not: stay the fuck away) and
OpenHAB (could not get the hang of it at all) last christmas vacation, HA came out on top. It does not crash like node red from nothing.
ALL of these systems depend on you to understand theire way of describing automation flows, the way they group things and so on, but while not perfect HA was at least not undecipherable.
Zigbee clients in general need a lot less power than the wlan one's. In general the strength of open source home automation is it is easy to add something to it.
Like, if you already have HA, adding an RPI zero with zigbee2mqtt and one of the recommended usb zigbee dongles opens up a world of compatible devices. (e.g. Philips hue, Ikea tradfri, chinese led strip controllers...)
Adding a reciever for enocean allows for touch-powered (battery-less) switches (stay away from there power hungry, hard to teach in actors!).
After getting it running initially, adding something onto it is often just a weekend's day away.
Think very hard if you want HA within a docker container - that allows for easy adding stuff like signal-message integration (that come as additional docker containers) or running it directly on a linux box (better performance, less moving parts, but good help you, if you decide you want one of the docker-contained addons).
This is but the first step of a long journey, but  and keep  IMHO the direction is good 

I N T E R E S T I N G !!!

Yes stay away for any variant of evil raspi, they are design for having fun not to be stable.
I would like to smash HA on an old big and energy hungry server, which will also run FreeNAS.

oh man where I can find the time?

[factory]

...Must have had a major failure at some point, as the pass transistors have all been replaced with these.   

David

Seems pretty likely that Sprague doody-bomb died the way they often do... dead-short and kaboom. I'd shotgun that section m'self, including the one that was "replaced in the 70s".

mnem
Trust no one capacitor.

The two remaining Spraque caps on the regulator board were the originals from 1963, they weren't shorted and both me & the seller* had tested the counter with them still in place. Later on, the Peak ESR said they were past it, put some nice crappy NOS blue Philips ones in their place.



*there is a video on youtube of my counter from the seller.

David