Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Neomys Sapiens]

Last Saturday I have bought these at the DNAT swap meet in Bad Bentheim (Germany):

•    H&B Elavi 15n
•    BCC Metrawatt Metravo 4S
•    Uni 11e
•    Siemens Zeitmesser M 09005-A23-A1
•    2 Sun Hayato IC pullers (Made in Japan)
•    Wiha PZ2 100mm screwdriver

Does anyone have the schematics for the multi-meters, since they need some TLC ? I already found the manual for the Elavi 15n but no schematic.

More info on the Siemens Zeitmesser https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siemens-zeitmesser-m-09005-a23-a1/

I have to look whether I have something on paper for the Elavi15N. And then scan it, so not immediately.
Regarding the user manual for the Metravo4S I am at least sure that I have it. But also yet unscanned.

[Brumby]

I'll say between 24 and 48 hours.

[timenutgoblin]

In effort to avoid detracting from the point of this discussion topic, I will post no more here 

See attached screenshot for predicted date and time of 100,000 replies.

[tautech]

I collect old BWD scopes and I dont have the model 540 which was a 100MHz model.

Oh do you. 
A busted 835 was one I had on the path to today and got reasonably cheap from our Trademe Buy/Sell.
Nice little CRO it was too and quite easy to work on although it incorporated some unusual design features for a scope of its vintage. Fixed and flogged.
Guessing you already know about your fellow Aussie Keven Chant's repository of BWD manuals:
https://www.kevinchant.com/bwd.html

I do know Kevin's page, he has the 835 manual now because I managed to finally find a copy of one a few years back while trying to fix one of mine.

I love the BWD stuff, no exotic custom parts which makes them so much easier to repair, not to mention a legacy to when Australia actually manufactured stuff...

PS: Also remember using a 539d in one of the labs at University (long time ago)...   

Nice you shared a manual with Kevin as he is a good chap. The 835 I had came with a tidy hard copy and was brought new by a repair tech a couple hours north of us and our youngest collected it when living up them ways and coming home for a weekend.
Always amused me the tech with schematics couldn’t/wouldn’t fix it and so flogged it.
IIRC the SMPS PSU prereg had an issue and also one rail wouldn’t come up because a remote bastard tant further down the rail had gone short.

[mansaxel]

I don't believe in being connected to the web when not actually using it, is a good thing, it is a risk to far that does NOT need to be taken.

You are, I am afraid, still not grasping the attack vector and its controlling/dimensioning circumstances. In no bloody way are the attackers going to depend on you running the browser. They're going to use it, momentarily, but as has been noted, prefer to stuff payloads into badly controlled document structures, like for instance most any word processing or spreadsheet format more magic than TeX and CSV files. And, of course PDF, because having a Turing-complete printer control language is apparently a must..

The only practice that will accomplish what you think you do when turning the browser off, is air-gapping the computer, completely, and continously, without exception.  I have been running such computers, and whereas the tradeoffs were reasonable for the environment I was in (certainly were enforced!) it is no way I'd like to run my main work/play computer.

[Saskia]

Which is why you should use an offline wallet if you do anything with crypto. The ecological impact notwithstanding.

Same goes with anything regarding online banking ...

[BU508A]

Any predictions as to when this discussion thread reaches 100,000 replies? I have attached a screenshot dated 30/08/2021 at 13:32 (GMT).

Within 24 hours.

20210901

[dl6lr]

Fætter Højben, hvorfor er du altid så heldig?

Hej!

Now you got me as I do not speak danish  I am only able to use kitchen-danish to know where to look for hvidløg i Brugsen. But I have onkel Reinhard, tante Birgit, fætter Carsten og kusine Vibeke i København. Didn't help much for learning the language. I have an aunt in Sweden, too. But I do not speak swedish either...

Bernd

[beanflying]

Had a Pomme/Yorkshire sourced lump of real Steel arrive today in spite of some very sub standard packaging 

Cant find a lot of information about Huddersfield Gauges but they seem to still be around in some form in Yorkshire. Quick check looks to be reading about 0.002" low without tweaking the scales but some former owner seems to have taken some material off the underside of the scribe over the years as the tip is higher than the middle of it. Generally a really nicely made device and made from hardened tool steel.

Time for a complete strip and clean of several decades of crud for a start then some 

[dl6lr]

No no, Firefox doesn't need 10Gb, it is much less as this test here shows, much the same is required for all of the top three browsers, with Edge just a fraction  less than both Firefox and Chrome.

Can confirm. FF with currently 58 tabs open uses less than 2GB.

[Specmaster]

Fluke 85 update, it seems that my input jack block is in the UK and is now at the national sorting hub of Hermes, so I'm hopeful now of actually getting the item in my hand soon then I can install it, and I'll have myself a beautiful Fluke 85 in practically mint condition, yah.

Well I wish the best of luck with that but I have my doubts ! 

Last week I sent my first / prototype OBD cable to my friend in Germany. Was checking tracking info on-lien every day.
Parcel had no problem going throughout France, via 3 hubs... then it arrived in Germany at some other hub over there. Last Friday Hub then went to deliver the parcel and... tracking says they could not find the place ?! Tried again next day, still couldn't find it !  Now his address is nothing special at all, just your usual one liner + post code. That's his company building in the industrial park of his town, Augsburg. Any monkey can find is place !!!

They sent him an e-mail, saying : " Could not find your address, please contact us. You have 10 days to clarify your address. We have returned the parcel to the sender. ".

Eh ? Aren't you contradicting yourself here ?!  You say you will keep the parcel for 10 days but you have already returned it, the same day you failed to deliver it ?! What ?!     YOu had my friends e-mail, you even e-mail him... so you have a means of contacting him... so why the hell would you return the fucking parcel ! Just communicate with the guy and sort it out ! Or tell him to pick it up directly at your hub, I don't know ! WHY on earth would you return the parcel without making any effort to deliver it ?! 


Bottom line : the hub is run by Hermes..... so I hope that Hermes UK is MUCH more competent and than Hermes Germany, or you may never get your Fluke I am afraid ! 

Yeah, Hermes UK is usually far better than that, at least in my experience, but like so many things in life, its all down to the staff at my local depot are pretty good and the drivers are very good, so I'm not expecting any shenanigans with it once its gets to that local depot. 

[Cubdriver]

Nice height gauge, Bean!  Look forward to seeing it cleaned up.   

The HP 120B scope from the bay of evil arrived today; haven't gotten it fired up yet though - it has a twist lock power input connector, and I can't put my hands on my suicide cord at the moment.     It doesn't have old-TV levels of crud inside, but at the same time it did not live its life in an air conditioned lab, either.  Pics perhaps tomorrow if I can make some time to look at it.

-Pat

[Cubdriver]

Looked around and found the suicide cord, so I decided to quickly apply power to the 120B.  (Four AM on a work night, why go to bed?  That would be the sensible thing to do... )

No immediate smoke; it's drawing the roughly correct amount of power and I can get something on the screen with the beam finder.  There is at least some sweep, but the trace is off the screen to the top and the vertical controls have no effect whatsoever.  On the bright side, it isn't completely dead!   

View into top with cover off:


Detail of glowie bits:


Beam found:


Early 1966 engineering rev, and the 8005th one made:


-Pat

[beanflying]

Nice height gauge, Bean!  Look forward to seeing it cleaned up.   

The HP 120B scope from the bay of evil arrived today; haven't gotten it fired up yet though - it has a twist lock power input connector, and I can't put my hands on my suicide cord at the moment.     It doesn't have old-TV levels of crud inside, but at the same time it did not live its life in an air conditioned lab, either.  Pics perhaps tomorrow if I can make some time to look at it.

-Pat

Much more of a grot and some very minor burr removal than a polished refurbishment. The ground parts are still in very good order so I think I would risk doing more harm than good if I was heavy handed on the cleanup. A little 1200 wet and dry and IPA and Acetone is doing great so far and the bits that matter look bang on with some rough testing.

Anyone know of a good paint or dye for some contrast improvement on the engravings?

[flash2b]

Last Saturday I have bought these at the DNAT swap meet in Bad Bentheim (Germany):

•    H&B Elavi 15n
•    BCC Metrawatt Metravo 4S
•    Uni 11e
•    Siemens Zeitmesser M 09005-A23-A1
•    2 Sun Hayato IC pullers (Made in Japan)
•    Wiha PZ2 100mm screwdriver

Does anyone have the schematics for the multi-meters, since they need some TLC ? I already found the manual for the Elavi 15n but no schematic.

More info on the Siemens Zeitmesser https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siemens-zeitmesser-m-09005-a23-a1/

I have to look whether I have something on paper for the Elavi15N. And then scan it, so not immediately.
Regarding the user manual for the Metravo4S I am at least sure that I have it. But also yet unscanned.

Thank you for the Metravo 4S including the schematic. As I found out I do not have the Eliva 15n manual at all, was mixed up with the Metravo 4S which, because of you, now have the schematic.

I would appreciate a manual for the Elavi 15n if you have, no rush I am glad for your help.

[Robert763]

Still, one must wonder why the PS-900 is 50% more powerful than the MX/MFR/CV series, yet is 3 times cheaper.. literally ! Just checked prices on Farnel !     So why is the 60W cheapie PS-900 running at 450kHz and the LESS powerful ones running at a much higher frequency, 13MHz.

And why are the expensive models 3 times the price if they are way less powerful than the PS-900 ?
That means they must have a tremendous added value over the entry level PS-900.. but WHAT is it ?! 

Sure, the MX500 has a 2x16 text LCD, and the CV series a little colour graphical LCD, PS-900 has no display but an LCD to display basic stuff in 2021 is worth 10 bucks of added value, not 500 as it is here !    So it must be something else !

The giveaway is in the descriptions. PS = Production Series. The PS are sold for production use, and I have yet to met a production manager who isn't, let's be kind, highly conscious of the costs involved in things - especially when he has to buy them 20 at a time. The other range is sold for rework and R&D use. For rework the huge range of tips for difficult jobs means the range makes sense, for R&D the shiny displays etc add nerd appeal. In either case you're probably buying one for every twenty PS series the production folks are getting, so the higher price is easier to swallow. TLDR, "marketing" and "differential pricing".

The 450kHz bits use litz wire fir the coil. This was the original design. My experience with them (some years ago) was that the coils failed long before the bit wore out. They also did not like being dropped. The high frequency bits have much more robust coils.

[bd139]

Can confirm. Dropped mine and killed the cartridge 

Edit: to be fair I’m not sure that did it but it died shortly after being dropped in hours.

[Vince]

Looked around and found the suicide cord, so I decided to quickly apply power to the 120B.
-Pat

Oh no you beat me to it !

I too got an HP 120B recently, meant to start restoring it pretty soon, was very excited to post about it, but too late you came first ! 

Mine is Gemra made,  G245-00364.  So S/N much older than yours, or is the S/N specifict to each and every manufacturing plant ?! That's something I have never been able to determine for my old Tek scopes.

Anyway yours look beautiful with this blue CRT !
I immediately notice that the caps look of a newer/ better type, so your unit might quite recent.
I mean I am looking at the two side byt side axial caps at the back of the trigger switch assembly, the type that always fails I gather... on mine they are completely rotten, but yours look brand new.
Other clue : the shield on your CRT looks new, the pain I mean... mine is badly flaking off ! 

I don't even know if mine will power up... it's missing half its tubes ! 
.. so no idea about phosphor colour, hey maybe I will get lucky and have  a blue one like you ! No, not likely !


Anyway, looking forward to your restoration, and can't wait to start mine. Before I do anything with it, would like to buy a Variac as I can't afford to blow it.. have many Tek spares but only this one and only HP scope, zero parts handy to fix it if I screw up ! 

[Vince]

More French telecom stuff ... damn I already played the Pink Panther video. 

I am sure you will dig something else out !! 

Vince - 

Suicides at Orange? 

Maybe they get severe punishment for losing their equipment ... 

Ah see ! I was sure you would find something else !

Yes it's an old story but yes, people at France Telecom were being forced to leave very quicky either by the door or the window. A few preferred the window.
When France Telecom got privatized to become " Orange ", as usual massive and very quick lay offs were performed in order to artificially and drastically increase the profitability and hence market value of the company. This way you get more money when you sell 3 months later.
It's a common technique, over here they do that all the time.

Other problem is that all the national / public big companies (rail, energy, air line whqt have you), had an easy life, earning very high prices despite very low qualifications, marvelous pension schemes, security of employment / " un-fire-able " as we say here... while working at a slow pace and only 2 hours a day and lots of holidays.  So when they saw that they would be sold to the private sector and now have to actually WORK, yet also see their income be halved so as to line up with the real world / other normal companies, and not have life long job security anymore, and crappy pension, etc... their little bubble / world suddenly popped, it was literally the end of " the " (THEIR) world for them. So some could not take it and preferred to literally jump out the window.

Same story goes for any old major public company/service, though Orange is the one that got the most attention because there were so many people burning out and jumping out the window, as Orange was really being pushy to make this happen very quickly. A bit too quickly it turned out...

[xrunner]

Ah see ! I was sure you would find something else !

Well I had to since you gave me a throw-down challenge. 

Yes it's an old story but yes, people at France Telecom were being forced to leave very quicky either by the door or the window. A few preferred the window.
When France Telecom got privatized to become " Orange ", as usual massive and very quick lay offs were performed in order to artificially and drastically increase the profitability and hence market value of the company. This way you get more money when you sell 3 months later.
It's a common technique, over here they do that all the time.

Other problem is that all the national / public big companies (rail, energy, air line whqt have you), had an easy life, earning very high prices despite very low qualifications, marvelous pension schemes, security of employment / " un-fire-able " as we say here... while working at a slow pace and only 2 hours a day and lots of holidays.  So when they saw that they would be sold to the private sector and now have to actually WORK, yet also see their income be halved so as to line up with the real world / other normal companies, and not have life long job security anymore, and crappy pension, etc... their little bubble / world suddenly popped, it was literally the end of " the " (THEIR) world for them. So some could not take it and preferred to literally jump out the window.

Same story goes for any old major public company/service, though Orange is the one that got the most attention because there were so many people burning out and jumping out the window, as Orange was really being pushy to make this happen very quickly. A bit too quickly it turned out...

But really, I didn't know about this till I was searching YT for "French Telecom" and came across these stories. I found it a little hard to believe at first, but since it looked like a valid news story I was intrigued. Man, killing yourself over changes at work is something hard for me to understand. 

[mnementh]

Still, one must wonder why the PS-900 is 50% more powerful than the MX/MFR/CV series, yet is 3 times cheaper.. literally ! Just checked prices on Farnel !     So why is the 60W cheapie PS-900 running at 450kHz and the LESS powerful ones running at a much higher frequency, 13MHz.

And why are the expensive models 3 times the price if they are way less powerful than the PS-900 ?
That means they must have a tremendous added value over the entry level PS-900.. but WHAT is it ?! 

Sure, the MX500 has a 2x16 text LCD, and the CV series a little colour graphical LCD, PS-900 has no display but an LCD to display basic stuff in 2021 is worth 10 bucks of added value, not 500 as it is here !    So it must be something else !

The giveaway is in the descriptions. PS = Production Series. The PS are sold for production use, and I have yet to met a production manager who isn't, let's be kind, highly conscious of the costs involved in things - especially when he has to buy them 20 at a time. The other range is sold for rework and R&D use. For rework the huge range of tips for difficult jobs m⅔eans the range makes sense, for R&D the shiny displays etc add nerd appeal. In either case you're probably buying one for every twenty PS series the production folks are getting, so the higher price is easier to swallow. TLDR, "marketing" and "differential pricing".

I guess I'm the weird nerd in the herd then... I find the enigmatic black brick of the original MX500 far more appealing than any of its successors with blinkenlichten and horsepower displays.

To me, "it just works" is dead-sexy.   

mnem
 

[mnementh]

   Had a Pomme/Yorkshire sourced lump of real Steel arrive today in spite of some very sub standard packaging 

Cant find a lot of information about Huddersfield Gauges but they seem to still be around in some form in Yorkshire. Quick check looks to be reading about 0.002" low without tweaking the scales but some former owner seems to have taken some material off the underside of the scribe over the years as the tip is higher than the middle of it. Generally a really nicely made device and made from hardened tool steel.

Time for a complete strip and clean of several decades of crud for a start then some 

Mmmmm... Yummy.  Nice segmented stick you got there buddy. Looking forward to seeing it all shiny and bright. 

mnem
 

[Brumby]

I guess I'm the weird nerd in the herd then...

Hey!  We're all weird here!

 .... but I must admit, you do wear "weird" better than most. 

[Brumby]

On the subject of browser tabs, I'm a single digit guy, I'm afraid.  I very rarely have enough tabs open that they are reduced in width.

Some times I will build up a stack of tabs if I see a video and there are a couple of suggested videos that catch my eye - and each of those has some suggested videos that also catch my eye.  However, normal speed for me is 1 to 5 tabs.  Sometimes I'll have a second window - usually because I want to swap between them quickly and Alt-Tab is faster.

[mnementh]

Time waits for no man...

The saying is "Time and tide wait on no man."  and IIRC it is a nautical phrase which, alliteration aside, predates the English language.   

Also, welcome to the nuthouse.  Help yourself to a breakfast taco and coffee from the neverending taco truck in the corner; the BEC ones are epic. bean's been polishing his ruler, so new widgets should be soon scattered from hell to breakfast; Papa Smurf is taking a break from his 547, so...    bd139 is back at work, so I'm afraid things might be a little slow.      If you see Saskia stuffing something in a gunny sack, just look away; it's probably one of her "special" teddy bears ready to be delivered.  The crusty old Aardvark in the corner is mostly harmless. You already know that "Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so...", so just sit back and enjoy the show.

Oh, and the pervy little dragon fancier schtick is mine, but I am looking into franchising opportunities; drop me a e and we can workshop it. 

mnem