Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[med6753]

The 27 arrived.

Now I want one. But a 27FM.

I'd have an FM out of preference if I could, but I'm not looking a 30 quid gift horse in the mouth.

I'm all with you, a 25, 27, or 27FM all would be adequate tools, but my desire lies with the 27FM, preferably with the HV probe; because that's something I miss today. Bar ruggedness, as you write, the rest of the meter has capabilities I easily surpass with my other meters; save for HV measurements above 2,5KV which is the limit of my Avos and other VOMen.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154034358475



  

Or just get one of these. B&K Precision PR-28. Compatible with 10MEG impedance DMM's.

[Specmaster]

The 27 arrived.

Now I want one. But a 27FM.

I'd have an FM out of preference if I could, but I'm not looking a 30 quid gift horse in the mouth.

I've had good mileage out of the 25. Nothing fancy, basic V, and I in both AC and DC,  , continuity, conductivity (there's a semi-concealed nS range) with 3200 count and nothing else; but it's accurate, it gets the job done and you're not scared to take it somewhere it might get dropped, run over, or otherwise physically abused. Also has the best tilting bail of any multimeter I've ever used, you can push banana plugs in without the meter skittering off somewhere. Also, you can even reverse the bail to use as a hook/carrying handle or to give you more reach in a bar fight. Bonus for the troglodytes is that it has intrinsically safe rating for mines.

Did you know that if you were to remove the front casing of the 27 and fit it to the 25 back and guts, that the 25 would become a 27 as well? The guts of them are identical, the only difference is that the 27 has the 2 extra buttons.

[mnementh]

What did you try for temperature measurement? The Pt100?

Great. Turns out, the meter is not broken. I'm an idiot. Thanks for pointing it out. :-)

It has two modes:

St1 is "Mo", no idea what kind of sensor it expects there. Anyone has an idea? (obviously doesn't work with Type K, as I have confirmed already.........)

St2 is "Pt", works perfectly with some Pt100 sensor that I use for PLC testing, see the picture.

I don't have the manual, so I'll just blame it on that to avoid the obvious question why I didn't just read the labeling on the device.

Ok, now you have me more baffled than a double baffle muzzle brake.
When I read your post I was optimistic to have an answer for the 'Mo' soon. Despite the fact that nothing rang in my brain - I have sources. Denkste. I perused every tome on sensors and temperature measurement within reach - without the slightest hint about a type of RTD (or even thermocouples or other sensors) identified by the 'Mo' designation. Also no hint of temperature measurement using molybdenum. Even a 3-volume work on measurement of non-electrical quantities - Nullinger.

So what else could it mean? Monel? Metal oxide? Motorschutzfuehler? The latter would make some sense in a multimeter for industrial purposes, if one could check on the function of the commonly used thermistors for the protection of windings.
The range although seems congruent with the definition for Ni-type RTDs. But how does one arrive at 'Mo' from 'Ni'?
Also, as you might have already found out, no manual to be found on the web. We have to get behind that 'Mo'!

I switched it to "St1 = Mo" Mode and played with some restor values until I found measurements. Then I tried some simple unprecise characteristics for it. R is the nominal restistor value, U is the voltage measured across the resistor, °C is the displayed temperature on the Normameter 940:

Hmm... so def not my guess. 

Maybe it's a special mode just for Moe. 

mnem
'ssammatta widjoo foo...? That's just tellin' you need mo' heat... mo', mo' mo'...!!!

[mnementh]

No guesses so another image.

Ahh I saw that on the sold list when I saw your first message and went digging. Didn’t register as fitting the shape of the packaging. Looks interesting. Can’t wait for the tear down 

A stable oscillator for a unstable...  never-mind.

I am also curious. But how likely is that thing to be potted to death with some heinous substance resembling carbonite...?

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Here I am wide awake at an ungodly hour of 0300 and already I'm involved in troubleshooting. Coffeemaker not working. This is serious.  It won't stay on and keeps shutting off. Lemme unplug it then replug. Still no joy. After several minutes checking and rechecking the issue finally hits me on the side of the head. There's no water in it you dummy.  Crisis averted. My cup runneth over. 

Decided late yesterday to bring the scope cart in here so I can comfortably finish it. Coat of stain applied last night. Stunk up the place a bit but not overwhelming. This morning I'll get the door installed and start with the poly. Pictures later.

Low tech always wins when it comes to coffee availability. I get five nines out of this  .

When we had a power cut for several hours a while back, out came the Trangia and kettle. Very useful 

Exit plan. 

mnem
I am a leaf on the wind...

[mnementh]

Here are some very salty prices on eBay UK

I often wonder if some of the absurdly priced auctions are in fact money laundering.

Drug deals. Yup.

mnem
 

[Robert763]

No guesses so another image.

Do you have the pin out of that connector or are you going to have to reverse engineer it?

I have the pin-out and the unit specification

[bd139]

No guesses so another image.

Do you have the pin out of that connector or are you going to have to reverse engineer it?

I have the pin-out an the uhit specification

Anything those proportions is probably a Rubidium source?

[tggzzz]

Did you know that if you were to remove the front casing of the 27 and fit it to the 25 back and guts, that the 25 would become a 27 as well? The guts of them are identical, the only difference is that the 27 has the 2 extra buttons.

That certainly works on my 25, when I last tried it

I considered waiting for a scrap 27 simply to transfer the case, but the extra functions aren't sufficiently important to me.

[mnementh]

   The things we have to do when moving...

~240,000 mAH @ somewhere between 60C and 200C discharge capacity in ~3L space. With a handle.

mnem
What could possibly go wrong...?

[mansaxel]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154034358475



  

Nice enabling try!

[Robert763]

No guesses so another image.

Ahh I saw that on the sold list when I saw your first message and went digging. Didn’t register as fitting the shape of the packaging. Looks interesting. Can’t wait for the tear down 

Internals
No potting
runs off 18-36V DC and gives 800kHZ 5V squarewave fron the Rb.

[Robert763]

No guesses so another image.

Must be a rubidium frequency standard from a military navigation system.      I wouldn't be too surprised if there is an Efratom or Ball Aerospace-Efratom  rubidium clock inside the box.

Almost right. It's for a secure frequency hopping radio. I connects to the Have-Quick enabled PTR-1751WWH
It contains a Frequency Electronics FE-5650A-M
The output is 800kHz divided down (by 16) from 12.8MHz generated from the interal DDS. As the 12.8MHz is crystal filtered it is not easy to change to 10MHz even though the 5650A has DIP switches internally. It can be done but 800kHz will easilly divide to 100kHz and 1Hz so still useful.
Anyway worth £20 each anyday.
Note I've not put the number etc. I got burnt a bit on these years ago. Some turned up on ebay I wasn't placed to buy more than one. Someone else bought one and asked about it on the time nuts mail list. I told him what I knew and net thing he had bought them all, taken the Rb's out and sold them at a large markup.
Scotttrade12 has done similar recently. The first listed them complete at silly monery then dropped the price to £20
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224434964973? but that is the EMPTY CASE. He sold the Rb's for atound £100
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324574645606.

[armandine2]

all the recent Fluke 27 posts coincided with me falling for the dual mean/trms specs for the KewTech 1052

I see now these are available in the UK for under £150

[Cerebus]

No guesses so another image.

Must be a rubidium frequency standard from a military navigation system.      I wouldn't be too surprised if there is an Efratom or Ball Aerospace-Efratom  rubidium clock inside the box.

Almost right. It's for a secure frequency hopping radio. I connects to the Have-Quick enabled PTR-1751WWH
It contains a Frequency Electronics FE-5650A-M
The output is 800kHz divided down (by 16) from 12.8MHz generated from the interal DDS. As the 12.8MHz is crystal filtered it is not easy to change to 10MHz even though the 5650A has DIP switches internally. It can be done but 800kHz will easilly divide to 100kHz and 1Hz so still useful.
Anyway worth £20 each anyday.
Note I've not put the number etc. I got burnt a bit on these years ago. Some turned up on ebay I wasn't placed to buy more than one. Someone else bought one and asked about it on the time nuts mail list. I told him what I knew and net thing he had bought them all, taken the Rb's out and sold them at a large markup.
Scotttrade12 has done similar recently. The first listed them complete at silly monery then dropped the price to £20
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224434964973? but that is the EMPTY CASE. He sold the Rb's for atound £100
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324574645606.

I saw the FE-5650A-Ms that scottrade listed and mused about buying one. Problem is that I don't regard him as a reliable, knowledgable vendor. Had I know that they'd just been freshly extracted from inside one of those I might have chanced a punt. Oh well, c'est la vie.

[Robert763]

No guesses so another image.

Must be a rubidium frequency standard from a military navigation system.      I wouldn't be too surprised if there is an Efratom or Ball Aerospace-Efratom  rubidium clock inside the box.

Almost right. It's for a secure frequency hopping radio. I connects to the Have-Quick enabled PTR-1751WWH
It contains a Frequency Electronics FE-5650A-M
The output is 800kHz divided down (by 16) from 12.8MHz generated from the interal DDS. As the 12.8MHz is crystal filtered it is not easy to change to 10MHz even though the 5650A has DIP switches internally. It can be done but 800kHz will easilly divide to 100kHz and 1Hz so still useful.
Anyway worth £20 each anyday.
Note I've not put the number etc. I got burnt a bit on these years ago. Some turned up on ebay I wasn't placed to buy more than one. Someone else bought one and asked about it on the time nuts mail list. I told him what I knew and net thing he had bought them all, taken the Rb's out and sold them at a large markup.
Scotttrade12 has done similar recently. The first listed them complete at silly monery then dropped the price to £20
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224434964973? but that is the EMPTY CASE. He sold the Rb's for atound £100
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324574645606.

I saw the FE-5650A-Ms that scottrade listed and mused about buying one. Problem is that I don't regard him as a reliable, knowledgable vendor. Had I know that they'd just been freshly extracted from inside one of those I might have chanced a punt. Oh well, c'est la vie.

Ah, but did you know that it was fixed 800kHz output ?

[mnementh]

...Oh, and y'all would be proud of me... I didn't go all rabid dwagon nor nuttin'; just simple & sweet as sugar in my request:

"This part was listed as "used" from a working laptop. It is "damaged". There is a very prominent gouge in the digitizer film right in the middle of the screen. I cannot use this part, and quite frankly it never should have been put up for sale."

mnem

OK, who are you and what have you done with our Dwagon?

Just chalk it up to the bigger fish to fry effect of moving dwagons.

mnem

Oi... more blurry pictures accompanied by an argumentative stance and declaration that the part was sent out in "perfect" condition.

"Sorry J*****... "perfect" is not what arrived; your pictures simply are too fuzzy to show any such detail. This is damage to the film on the inside of the screen. It is the digitizer itself, not the glass which is damaged.

No, this is not some detritus on the screen either. It is damaged. If you like I can take some more pics with a microscope; I just didn't have time this morning when I was checking this out.

Thank you for your time,

mnem "

mnem

Well, after going back & forth a half-dozen times, during which I posted over a half-dozen pics and the guy made every BS excuse from "you swapped yours out for mine" to "I didn't receive any pictures", the dispute is now closed and eBay has refunded me.

For your records, seller is: https://www.ebay.ca/usr/jeremy*l I suggest we all shitlist him with extreme prejudice.

mnem
fucking plonker.

[AVGresponding]

Well the HP 5245L arrived today, and HOLIO-FUCK this thing is heavy! Must be 12kg if it's an ounce!
I imagine the conversation between the salesman and the customer when it was new...
Customer: Bloody hell, this thing weighs a ton!
Salesman: There are carrying handles on the side, what more do you want? Anyway, it's only 12kg.
Customer: Are you going to cover my chiropracter bill?
Salesman: As long as you supply NIST traceable documentation.


Since it has one of those stupid proprietary HP power connectors, for testing purposes I had to make a Heath Robinson lash-up involving Safeblok, flex, and croc leads.
Naturally I checked the main fuse before giving it any beans, and I'm glad I did:



It's a nice vintage fuse and all, but a 7A 150V fuse in a device that requires a 1A 250V one?   



There's some issues with the display:



Digits 3 and 4 are absent, and digit 5 has problems lighting the entire number, with 8 not appearing at all. This may or may not be failed tubes, as looking at the state of the boards it's a wonder anything works at all:



Some of the neon decimal points also don't work, and there's a problem with digits 1 and 2 in that they don't give a reading, except sometimes a momentary one while switching ranges. It's giving incorrect readings in the period settings, though they are linear up and down the ranges, which might be a helpful clue. The general crustiness is indicative of several years in a damp shed or cellar, to my mind.




Must have been fun* hand soldering the loom onto the plug-in carrier.



On the plus side, the accurate and stable frequency readings imply that this little beauty is working as specified:





*sighs* another item for the repair queue...   

[xrunner]

Digits 3 and 4 are absent, and digit 5 has problems lighting the entire number, with 8 not appearing at all. This may or may not be failed tubes, as looking at the state of the boards it's a wonder anything works at all:

Some of the neon decimal points also don't work, and there's a problem with digits 1 and 2 in that they don't give a reading, except sometimes a momentary one while switching ranges. It's giving incorrect readings in the period settings, though they are linear up and down the ranges, which might be a helpful clue. The general crustiness is indicative of several years in a damp shed or cellar, to my mind.

Gah - some of those components look pretty gnarly. I wish you luck!

[Saskia]

Gahh,
NLP AI conference.

mah head hurtz ...

[Neomys Sapiens]

I can't imagine having to defend yourself from an elephant attack while trying to use a multimeter for something is a particularly common occurrence, especially in the UK.

So far correct. But another sort of large dangerous animal is known to habitually attack test equipment worldwide!

[Saskia]

get some Chimps ...
https://news.sky.com/story/lethal-chimpanzee-attacks-on-gorillas-observed-for-first-time-12360429

[Andrew_Debbie]

get some Chimps ...
https://news.sky.com/story/lethal-chimpanzee-attacks-on-gorillas-observed-for-first-time-12360429

Chimps can be dangerous.  They plan ahead.     I worked around them a few jobs back and got closer than most people ever will.

[tggzzz]

Gahh,
NLP AI conference.

mah head hurtz ...

Your head will soon be replaced by NLP AI. Pointy-haired bosses won't be able to tell its output is rubbish, and will resort to "because the computer says so".

Read comp.risks to see how such things appear to "work" for spurious "reasons", e.g. https://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/32/80/#subj4.1
e.g.   
  "Some AIs were found to be picking up on the *text font* that certain
  hospitals used to label the scans. As a result, fonts from hospitals with
  more serious caseloads became predictors of covid risk."

I was first aware of that in the early 80s, when Igor Alexander's WISARD correctly distinguished between cars and tanks in the lab, but failed dismally when taken to Luneberger Heath in north Germany. Eventually they worked out the training set was tanks under grey skys and car adverts under sunny skies.

[Neomys Sapiens]

NLP AI conference.

We do not need to know more. Thanks.