Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[factory]

Who bought the 5245L on ebay UK? I offered the same amount the seller now accepted...

If you mean this one, it was me. It's been on my watch list a month or more including re-lists, and I just got fed up of looking at it.

I suspect either the seller couldn't be arsed dealing with international shipping, or also just got fed up of looking at it...

Glad to see you've bought it, it's an earlier one made in the Bedford factory. 

I just hope the 5246L was bought by someone actually interested in repairing & using it too and hopefully not a bulb poacher. The price the 5246L made probably wasn't too bad considering it's a less common variant and had all the original manuals with it.

David

P.S. The parcel containing the portable Tek scope has arrived  , might be later before I open it, as I'm going to start the rebuild of my computer after lunch.

[AaronLee]

What's the deal with so many sellers not willing to use the Global Shipping Program? Is it a lot of hassle for them? My understanding is they just ship it domestically, and then the Global Shipping Program deals with all the international shipping/issues. Not using it just means the sellers are limiting their potential buyers and losing money. I notice it especially with German sellers, who almost always don't have any option for international shipping. There's a lot of interesting listings from Germany which I'll never be able to buy.

Some notes on international shipping;

• As has been indicated, GSP is not available from everywhere
• I've been successful in persuading a reluctant seller to actually consider GSP and that way i got my prized -hp-428b. But that was from the US where it is available.
• Shipping inside EU is _much_ easier than into or out of it, if not equal.
• Germany is a good example. They have what from the outside seems like a very competitive carrier market, since shipping from Germany into Sweden is insanely cheap, especially if you're an e-commerce trader with some volume to show.
• Shipping from Sweden is insanely expensive, OTOH.
• GSP is very good w.r.t. shipping damage. As BD139 shows in his videos, people can't pack stuff. Neither can GSP, but they sure can play the refund game. I've got several free items this way, that in the end were possible to repair with some effort.
• Your flag is South Korea -- if that's correct, there probably are a lot of explanations why shipping to and from you is hard. The UPU has a balancing system where countries with "less evolved economies" can essentially dump their export packages at the doorstep of for instance Europe and expect them to be delivered for free. China is probably the most obvious example of a country in that situation, and has firecely resisted being upgraded in the UPU system. I would not expect South Korea to be in the same tier as China, so your postal authority would have to pay more to the recipient country to get shipments delivered.

Yes, I'm located in South Korea.

If I see something interesting, but that doesn't specifically say it'll ship to my country, I generally just ignore it, or at most open up the listing just to gawk at it, but nothing more. Perhaps if it's a U.S. based seller I should consider messaging them to see if they'll be willing to send it via GSP.

The shipping to here isn't cheap using GSP, typically $50 to $200 for heavy (but not too heavy) old test equipment, but GSP uses DHL from the USA, which arrives very quickly, and would cost several times more that in shipping if the seller shipped it directly using DHL.

South Korea has no import duty for items from the USA under $200 (the limit is $150 from other countries). So GSP works rather nicely for stuff that's unobtanium locally. The other thing is the import duty calculation is based on the cost of the item plus shipping, but evidently via GSP it's just the local shipping within the USA. So if a seller has free or low-cost shipping, even though the GSP shipping isn't cheap, the total cost is quite reasonable when it avoids the need to pay customs duties.

The interesting thing about buying from China, at least with my experience via AliExpress, is all the items I've ever bought have free shipping. Even cheap items that only cost $10 have free shipping, and heavy items like scopes/power supplies have free shipping. If the item is very low cost, such as only $1, then they might charge for shipping. From this, I assume the shipping charges from China to South Korea are ridiculously low.

Domestically inside Korea, online shopping sites typically charge about $2 for shipping, though some sellers will give free shipping if your order amount is more than $50 or so. Big bulky items that can't be sent via the standard shipping methods cost a lot more though. For $2, it's cheaper to just buy most everything online as opposed to spending money for gas/public transportation to go to brick and mortar stores, where the sales price is likely higher, not to mention no need to waste time.

I've noticed GSP available to ship to here from the USA and UK. I've not noticed specifically if it's available from any other countries, though in the back of my mind I think I might have seen it available from Hong Kong and Singapore, but both of which have very overpriced goods.

[AaronLee]

Glad to see you've bought it, it's an earlier one made in the Bedford factory. 

Ok, that's the first time I heard about HP equipment being manufactured in the UK. Was there any difference (quality or otherwise) between UK and US gear with the same model number?

[mnementh]

You can swap the CCFL out or replace with LEDs.

But yeah encoders and it’s end game hence why skank TDS210 is a no go that was posted the other day 

Let’s see how the TBS looks. As for memory depth not a massive issue for 90% or use cases but I guarantee that no one is going to agree with me there 

Yeah, I generally tend to avoid that particular service task; I replaced so many CCFLs in monitors, portable gaming and early LCD TVs  back in the day, thinking aboot it gives me PTSD. It is SO hard to get the fecking screen apart and back together without some speck of crap coming loose from the device and winding up between the layers; no matter how careful you are. And then it's right there, mocking you for all eternity.

mnem
 

Urrrrrgggh. Here we go again... of course, while I'm busy moving.

Fuck you, Murphy.

mnem
twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...

[factory]

Following are some macro photos of the rear of the Base Step Mode switch from my 'working' 575-122C
[..]

Wow, thanks a lot for all these nice shots and explanations ! I appreciate the time and effort !
Sure helped !  I have now diagnosed my switch problem, see pic below. The moving contact for the REPETITIVE position, was damaged. The tip of it suffered metal fatigue and was badly bent... took only a light finger touch to for it to snap/break for good !
Also, the inner contact also in the REPETITIVE position, was badly bent inward, meaning that in the OFF position, it was not making contact as it should.
So for now, I bent the outer contact so that it contact the moving contact, what's left of it I mean, so as to "hard wire" the unit in REPETITIVE mode. Sucks I know, but at least for now it means I can use the instrument and keep working on it to fix it.



Now for a long term repair, not sure how I would go about it ?! 
Finding parts for a 575 I won"t even waste my time searching...
With some luck there is the same style of switch in one of my Tek scopes and I can take the switch apart to salvage the particular contact that I need ?!
Or maybe old HP gear had that style of switch as well.. a donor HP might do it...
At least it's good that they can easily be taken apart and "configured" which ever way you want, just take the bits you need to make your favorite "sandwich", and crew it together, done ! 

Tried cleaning the contacts, they are 100% black, a disaster... but it's beyond hope : I rubbed them with a piece of paper soaked in " Deoxit ", no joy. Not  a dent ! 
The contacts in your pictures look brand new ! To get mine like that, only way is to pull the switch assemblies out of the unit, take the swithc assembly apart and work on every contact individually, with some soft fiber glass pen or something.

SNIP....

That's it for today with this 575 ! Started at 9AM it's now 2AM next day ! 

A few piccies and off to bed...

That looks a much nicer switch than hp used for the beam finder on the scope I've been working on, mine has a Switchcraft version, but the contacts are just the strips themselves, no decent contacts attached to them. 



Having watched a bit of LMNC recently and his new rabbit-hole of GPO telephone exchange equipment, I wonder if GPO equipment used better switch contacts, they certainly used them on the relays, I guess they must have been available for other things at the time too.

David

[AaronLee]

Goodbye Norma Jean... though I never knew you at all...

"You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around you crawled
They crawled out of the woodwork"

Hey, wait a minute, the Norma looks like it's the one who just crawled out of the woodwork or some other filthy place.

[Zucca]

Yes, I'm located in South Korea.

Oh wow, may be we should put a flag in a globe map for each TEA member location. It could be interesting to see...

[mnementh]

The bottom has ~10mm of foam in it. There was two bits of folded cardboard over the top. Yes indeed people do not know how to pack.

Another video for the series

I had to sign in to post my grump video; so I took a moment to sub before signing out of all devices. Poor yoobToob... it gets so lonely without me; when I do actually sign in, it hits me with like 100 notifications... which I pointedly ignore.

mnem
 

[xrunner]

I wonder if thermal transfer paper would work? You'd probably have to lacquer over the result to make it durable though.

Might I've not tried it. But I'm working on a mini-project for Vince right now relating to the labels for one missing part. Be back later today with any results ...

 

[Vince]

That looks a much nicer switch than hp used for the beam finder on the scope I've been working on, mine has a Switchcraft version, but the contacts are just the strips themselves, no decent contacts attached to them. 



Having watched a bit of LMNC recently and his new rabbit-hole of GPO telephone exchange equipment, I wonder if GPO equipment used better switch contacts, they certainly used them on the relays, I guess they must have been available for other things at the time too.

David

Thanks for the info... good to know that such a reputable brand as HP thought it was OK not to add proper contacts ! That means maybe I can too... if no other solution can be figured out...

Let me know if you find a switch / strip somewhere I could make use of ! 

Relays yeah why not... would have to be a huge one though, but it's a good idea...

[mnementh]

mnem
*snerk*

[mansaxel]

Glad to see you've bought it, it's an earlier one made in the Bedford factory. 

Ok, that's the first time I heard about HP equipment being manufactured in the UK. Was there any difference (quality or otherwise) between UK and US gear with the same model number?

The South Queensferry (where  -hp- moved their UK operation from Bedford during the latter half of the 60s) history was posted here some weeks ago, and it indicates, IIRC, that the move from Bedford meant that some QA issues crept up. Not all skilled assembly staff elected to move north, and the trainees had some problems keeping up.

In general, -hp- in UK and other overseas facilities produced US designs and in various degrees contributed improvements and enhancements. SQF did eventually specialise in telecoms testing, taking the battle with the likes of Wandel & Goltermann et al.

[Saskia]

@Vince
if you are good at metal work you may look into pinball spare parts (target contacts) to cobble together a replacement switch.
Perhaps you could even spot weld one of those contacts to the switch (where the old arm has broken off).

Just an idea ...

As for the front panels, you could outsource this, there are companies out there who build panels according to specs.

[mnementh]

Sometimes you have kit that doesn’t want to live. There was an episode of Malcolm In The Middle which alluded to this where Malcolm gets a junker after winning some money on gambling.

17:30 on

Heh... I just got the boi started on MitM. And ST:TOS. Bless his heart, he has taken a real interest in the original Twilight Zone... and the 80s Incredible Hulk. Somewhere I need to squeeze in a few eps of Outer Limits, tho...

mnem
A classical education is so important. 

[factory]

Glad to see you've bought it, it's an earlier one made in the Bedford factory. 

Ok, that's the first time I heard about HP equipment being manufactured in the UK. Was there any difference (quality or otherwise) between UK and US gear with the same model number?

I've mentioned it before on here, they setup other factories around the world to be able to sell more stuff & avoid the import tariffs (up to 33% at the time) by having them made locally, the hp site at Bedford (ex Texas Instruments) England was used for a few years from 1961, before becoming too small for further expansion, they then built a completely new site in South Queenferry in Scotland, which opened in 1966 and lasted until 2010 (the factory has all gone in the last 10 years & been replaced with another shitty housing estate, no thanks to Agilent  ).

If you want to know more, then check out the memoirs here, there are links at the bottom of the page to the full version; https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/timeline/hugh_walker/hugh_walker_memoir.htm

The previous post I made with reference to quality issues with early stuff from the South Queensferry site is here; https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3619692/#msg3619692

David

[mnementh]

@Vince
if you are good at metal work you may look into pinball spare parts (target contacts) to cobble together a replacement switch.
Perhaps you could even spot weld one of those contacts to the switch (where the old arm has broken off).

Just an idea ...

As for the front panels, you could outsource this, there are companies out there who build panels according to specs.

No reason in the world he can't make a little L-tab from a scrap of brass or steel and solder it to the back of the contact leaf. As for the silver contacts themselves, if they really are that crusty, while he has the switch out to fix that tab a few passes with some 1500-grit emery film will bring them back.

mnem
 

[factory]

That looks a much nicer switch than hp used for the beam finder on the scope I've been working on, mine has a Switchcraft version, but the contacts are just the strips themselves, no decent contacts attached to them. 



Having watched a bit of LMNC recently and his new rabbit-hole of GPO telephone exchange equipment, I wonder if GPO equipment used better switch contacts, they certainly used them on the relays, I guess they must have been available for other things at the time too.

David

Thanks for the info... good to know that such a reputable brand as HP thought it was OK not to add proper contacts ! That means maybe I can too... if no other solution can be figured out...

Let me know if you find a switch / strip somewhere I could make use of ! 

Relays yeah why not... would have to be a huge one though, but it's a good idea...

Replacing with a relay could work, but I was actually thinking the contact assemblies from the GPO type relays* could be transferred, but maybe not as they appear to be quite different in design.
https://www.britishtelephones.com/relay3000.htm

*I've seen them in other old equipment too, just don't know the generic name for them.

David

[factory]

A few ebay etc picks:

Waterproof boat anchor

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124855346598

I'm sure Med would quite enjoy re-spraying that in Tek blue. 



David

Nope. Look at side label. Made by hp. I would have to paint it grey.

Nope. 

For a moment there I thought you was going to say "piss up a rope" 

He did mentioned not wanting any hp scopes a few pages back and I thought the same too, might take a few more posts before I get told to "piss up a rope" . 

David

[Vince]

@Vince
if you are good at metal work you may look into pinball spare parts (target contacts) to cobble together a replacement switch.
Perhaps you could even spot weld one of those contacts to the switch (where the old arm has broken off).

Just an idea ...

Hmm yeah that's an idea, another potential source of contacts to investigate ! 

Spot welding yeah would be cool, I am indeed thinking of getting a little spot welder, among so many other things... in thus day and age, maybe there are ready made cheap china hobbyist machines, or plans somewhere for a decent tried and tested DIY machine...

I kept the bit of the strip that broke, in a safe place.. thinking maybe I can find a way to butt weld it back into place with some micro welding... maybe there oxy-acetylene torches with a minuscule jet that could do that without melting the strip...
Or I could try to make do with the existing strip : i could shift it forward a little bit to regain the lost length, bend the tip of it to shape it like it used to be before it snapped. The base of the strips are held in place by two screws. So if I pull the strip a bit, it would still be held in place by one screw, should be enough especially since the bat does not impose any lateral force that could make the strip spin around the screw. Rather it's an up/down movement, so should be fine. Of course that means I would have no contacting element on the strip anymore but... since HP though you don't really need one, might work as is who knows ! Worth a shot, nothing to lose...
Could try to make kind of contacting element by just adding a solder bloc to the strip and filing it to flatten / shape it. Then sand it with fine gritt paper to make the surface of it smooth. I don't know... I have absolutely nothing to lose in experimenting ! Either it works and it's great, or it doesn't and I ma back where I was.

As for the front panels, you could outsource this, there are companies out there who build panels according to specs.

Yeah I remember looking into that 15 years ago or so. IT was not very customizable, and cost an absolute fortune, it was completely ridiculous.
A sheet of aluminium is cheap enough, can do countless face plate with just one sheet. Cutting and drilling and filing is easy enough.
The only problem is printing on the thing, with a good enough resolution, something that looks clean enough to look like it was factory, and in colour if possible. That's the main problem really...

[Vince]

Replacing with a relay could work, but I was actually thinking the contact assemblies from the GPO type relays* could be transferred, but maybe not as they appear to be quite different in design.
https://www.britishtelephones.com/relay3000.htm

*I've seen them in other old equipment too, just don't know the generic name for them.

David

Problem is that it's a very specific relay... where would I go about finding in frog land ? Is it old stuff that's abundant on the used market for dirt cheap on-line ?

[factory]

Replacing with a relay could work, but I was actually thinking the contact assemblies from the GPO type relays* could be transferred, but maybe not as they appear to be quite different in design.
https://www.britishtelephones.com/relay3000.htm

*I've seen them in other old equipment too, just don't know the generic name for them.

David

Problem is that it's a very specific relay... where would I go about finding in frog land ? Is it old stuff that's abundant on the used market for dirt cheap on-line ?

It's the sort of thing that you used to be able to find in mixed parts boxes at HAM sales (when we used to have them of course  ), that they would be desperate for you to take away.
I meant the generic open frame type switches & relays with strip contacts, not just old GPO parts.

David

[Vince]

No reason in the world he can't make a little L-tab from a scrap of brass or steel and solder it to the back of the contact leaf. As for the silver contacts themselves, if they really are that crusty, while he has the switch out to fix that tab a few passes with some 1500-grit emery film will bring them back.

mnem

No need to make the L tab, I kept the one that broke off !  It's just that I have no experience and gear to do "micro" soldering, or any soldering really ! Well I mean other than electronic stuff o course...
The strip broke just one mm from the contacting element, so not much room for mistakes or I would melt the contact...

Hey... I am thinking, to get around this... maybe I could just add a supporting strip beneath the broken strip ? Then maybe just glue it all together, simple as that ?! The forces it would endure are so light, and that switch would be operated so few times in his retirement now, might just do the trick...
Now what "glue" would be best for metal to metal, I don't know... super glue would probably do it I guess, parts are so small and light, but if there is something better, tailor made for metal, would rather prefer that...

Or yeah, spot weld the broken tab to the supporting strip, then spot weld the latter to what's left of the strip. This way I can spot weld away from the contacting element and therefore no risk of damaging it with heat.
Would have to be a precision spot welder then, with a fine tip... if anybody knows about these things as has a few links they could provide, I am all ears ! 

[Vince]

I wonder if thermal transfer paper would work? You'd probably have to lacquer over the result to make it durable though.

Didn't know about the stuff. Had a quick look on Youtube. Seems useful to print stuff on T-shirts, but seems you have to peel off the paper all around the image... I don't see how it's feasible humanly, to peel off the paper around each and every small letter of a text ? Would ned 2 slaves to do it for 3 days, and require a microscopes and rather microscopic tools. Or maybe I didn't watch the appropriate video and there is a way to transfer text...

[Vince]

OK, I did somewhat the same idea for a Drake SPR-4 Shortwave receiver I completely restored. I wanted to add some additional crystals for it (you can still buy them used) for more 500 kHz band slots. But how would I make the custom printing for the band selector?

I did it with clear laser printed adhesive stickers! I spent the time to find the right font and size the letters and numbers. It took a while but the results are indistinguishable form the original stickers. You could make stickers with the right fonts and colors to just apply to the panel. I think it would be super-cool looking!

P.S. Get some sleep!

Got some sleep !    ... woke up at 11AM, oops.... sometimes it's good to have just been fired, you can do shit you normally can't do ! 

Looks nice on your old receiver. Yes that could be an easy solution. Will definitely consider it.....
Need to see where I can buy  A4 size printable stickers that I can put in my laser printer.

Of course there is the question of how long and good will the sticker last, exposed to the intense heat of the instrument.
But alas, realistically, the 575 is now in retirement so even once restored it will probably less than a 100 hours worth of service before I die. So the sticker should probably be fine... and even if it degrades faster than would be desirable, it's quick and easy enough to just remove the old one and print a new fresh one....
So yeah, that's definitely a nice solution.
Next best is laser etching/ "printing "... definitely want to give that a go too as I think it would be both very durable and look professional.
The sticker idea though, as the advantage of being able to print colours, which the original panel might well be using...

[AVGresponding]

@Vince
if you are good at metal work you may look into pinball spare parts (target contacts) to cobble together a replacement switch.
Perhaps you could even spot weld one of those contacts to the switch (where the old arm has broken off).

Just an idea ...

As for the front panels, you could outsource this, there are companies out there who build panels according to specs.

Slot machines (one-arm bandits, pinball, even some video games) generally had that type of switch, before the move to microswitches. I think I still have a few of various types, I'll see if I can dig them out.