Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[McBryce]

I had an old PC full of (electronics related) ISA and PCI cards running XP, but I eventually gave up on it. I still have some of the cards left over (Keithley GPIB / NI Data aq. ) if anyone is interested in spending hours of hair pulling frustration trying to get them to work.

McBryce.

[Brumby]

(I think they congregate and hide wherever my tape measures and the 10mm & 1/2” sockets go when they disappear.)

I hear you about the 10mm sockets.  You can never have enough of them, can you?!

In fact I said this to an old family friend and she went out and bought up every loose 10mm half inch drive socket she could find at a local tool shop.  They only had 3 - but she presented them to me as a birthday gift.

A few weeks ago I was in Bunnings (yes, I know I spend far too much time there - so sue me) and they had some Kincrome items on clearance.  When I saw these, I just had to grab them....

They are all 10mm - in ¹/₄", ³/₈" and ¹/₂" drive.

Showed them to my friend and she cracked up.


Edit:  They also had a rail with 13mm sockets, but I didn't feel that adventurous.

[ch_scr]

I performed few simple tests with standard waveforms (80 MHz sine, 1 MHz square wave).

Looking at the risetime and the 20/40dB breakpoint in the FFT, you need a squarer wave 

Be very careful what to allow the ground lead to touch. But you know that

Yes  and yes 
soon(tm)

That’s rather cool that is. I keep seeing various PCI cards on eBay for not much like that. Perhaps I should consider them 

As for torches, I can make phone calls, browse eevblog and buy test gear on mine so ner ner 

The PCI technology is slowly but surely dying. I guess in ~10 years it will be very difficult to get this type of hardware running. The PC hardware is getting more and more obsolete, the software and drivers aren't supported anymore and there is a lack of documentation, too. Unfortunately, the Internet forgets, too. I am glad there is such as thing as archive.org. It helps alot to grab almost forgotten PDFs from early 2000's.

For this project, I'll probably buy an inexpensive dedicated PC (dated 2006-2008ish) with enough PCI slots in order to keep those digitizers alive.

There exist PCIe to PCI adapters, not even expensive. A few years newer on the pc goes a long way...
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Schnittstellenkarte-Adapterkarte-Contollerkarte-Videoschnittkarte/dp/B00EA04I2C

[tautech]

(I think they congregate and hide wherever my tape measures and the 10mm & 1/2” sockets go when they disappear.)

I hear you about the 10mm sockets.  You can never have enough of them, can you?!

In fact I said this to an old family friend and she went out and bought up every loose 10mm half inch drive socket she could find at a local tool shop.  They only had 3 - but she presented them to me as a birthday gift.

A few weeks ago I was in Bunnings (yes, I know I spend far too much time there - so sue me) and they had some Kincrome items on clearance.  When I saw these, I just had to grab them....

They are all 10mm - in ¹/₄", ³/₈" and ¹/₂" drive.

Showed them to my friend and she cracked up.


Edit:  They also had a rail with 13mm sockets, but I didn't feel that adventurous.

6 and 12 point in all drive sizes and short reach and long reach ?
If so good lad, well done.

[McBryce]

I performed few simple tests with standard waveforms (80 MHz sine, 1 MHz square wave).

Looking at the risetime and the 20/40dB breakpoint in the FFT, you need a squarer wave 

Be very careful what to allow the ground lead to touch. But you know that

Yes  and yes 
soon(tm)

That’s rather cool that is. I keep seeing various PCI cards on eBay for not much like that. Perhaps I should consider them 

As for torches, I can make phone calls, browse eevblog and buy test gear on mine so ner ner 

The PCI technology is slowly but surely dying. I guess in ~10 years it will be very difficult to get this type of hardware running. The PC hardware is getting more and more obsolete, the software and drivers aren't supported anymore and there is a lack of documentation, too. Unfortunately, the Internet forgets, too. I am glad there is such as thing as archive.org. It helps alot to grab almost forgotten PDFs from early 2000's.

For this project, I'll probably buy an inexpensive dedicated PC (dated 2006-2008ish) with enough PCI slots in order to keep those digitizers alive.

There exist PCIe to PCI adapters, not even expensive. A few years newer on the pc goes a long way...
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Schnittstellenkarte-Adapterkarte-Contollerkarte-Videoschnittkarte/dp/B00EA04I2C

They are only good for half-height PCI cards and electronics related cards are rarely (if ever) half-height.

McBryce.

[ch_scr]

I performed few simple tests with standard waveforms (80 MHz sine, 1 MHz square wave).

Looking at the risetime and the 20/40dB breakpoint in the FFT, you need a squarer wave 

Be very careful what to allow the ground lead to touch. But you know that

Yes  and yes 
soon(tm)

That’s rather cool that is. I keep seeing various PCI cards on eBay for not much like that. Perhaps I should consider them 

As for torches, I can make phone calls, browse eevblog and buy test gear on mine so ner ner 

The PCI technology is slowly but surely dying. I guess in ~10 years it will be very difficult to get this type of hardware running. The PC hardware is getting more and more obsolete, the software and drivers aren't supported anymore and there is a lack of documentation, too. Unfortunately, the Internet forgets, too. I am glad there is such as thing as archive.org. It helps alot to grab almost forgotten PDFs from early 2000's.

For this project, I'll probably buy an inexpensive dedicated PC (dated 2006-2008ish) with enough PCI slots in order to keep those digitizers alive.

There exist PCIe to PCI adapters, not even expensive. A few years newer on the pc goes a long way...
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Schnittstellenkarte-Adapterkarte-Contollerkarte-Videoschnittkarte/dp/B00EA04I2C

They are only good for half-height PCI cards and electronics related cards are rarely (if ever) half-height.

McBryce.

There are also these that should be more applicable:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32998721556.html

[GreyWoolfe]

I suppose I should qualify my argument with "for its size" as it is only 130mm tall; here it is side x side with my 189. The display is larger and noticeably higher contrast than the 189 at pretty much any angle. I measure the digits (with my cheap digital calipers ) on the AN8008 at 18mm tall, compared to 12.8mm for the 189.

The combination of large, crisp display, flip-out stand and small size makes it an awesome 2nd/3rd meter on the bench, and a great pocket meter for going thrifting/hamfest-glomming, etc. Also nice is the fact it comes with a microfiber drawstring bag which offers essential protection without being too bulky in a pocket. It is a bit thick for a jeans pocket at ~26mm body/32mm raised portion of the switch, but def pocketable in most khakis or cargo pants.

I bought both of my AN800x meters for ~US$13 each; now they're twice that, which is what I meant by "if I actually find them on sale".

Their main drawback is same as that of all "cheap DMMs"; the corners cut re: CAT Ratings. I certainly wouldn't use either of them for measuring anything higher than household electrical outlets over here at 120VAC; def would think twice aboot putting it across the legs of a range or dryer.

And before y'all dogpile me over that statement... yes, I know that a household outlet over here still could have the full 240VAC across it. 

mnem

I have an 8008 and an 8009, they rotated in my toolbag in my company van until I found a Fluke 101 for a price too good to pass up.  I find both are quite accurate after doing the mods on them especially with Brymen leads.  I am really looking at the 620A for the really large digits and banggood has them for under $25 USD shipped so I think it's worth the punt.  If it does low readings as well as the other Anengs, it will replace the 101 in the tool bag.  I doubt it would ever see ACV, maybe the occasional DCV, mostly low component pass/fail.  That would make my 10th meter( split equally between bench and handheld) at which Mrs. GreyWoolfe would shake her head--still a sluggard compared to some of you TEAs.

[DH7DN]

There are also these that should be more applicable:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32998721556.html

Hey thanks for the advice ch_scr. Actually, I bought such a device (PCIe to PCI bridge). It worked perfectly with my other NI PCI-GPIB card. The PCIe/PCI bridge is standardized so therefore native drivers exist - no proprietary drivers needed.

I thought I could use this one for a full-length PCI card, such as NI PCI-5105. It works until the card starts drawing lot of power (>25 W) - suddenly the PC freezes and I have to reboot.




In order to supply enough power to the card, one has to connect the PCI bridge to a PC power supply. This is done by a MOLEX connector, which is placed really bad on the PCB.



There is a collision between the connector and the card (see picture), so this construction is unusable. I'll try to desolder the connector and put it on the bottom side of the PCB instead.



This PCIe-PCI bridge solution works fine in certain cases but you have to be careful because of unforeseen software and hardware issues. On a different system, I had Windows 10 Update (I think it was the major update in 2019) problems which were pinpointed down to the used PCIe/PCI bridge. Nevertheless, 20 bucks for a "maybe it will work" solution can be worth spending.

Just wanted to warn everybody from cheap chinesium

[Cerebus]

Torch is whatever you want to be.

Flashlight doesn’t flash any more thanks to improved technology so stupid word.

If you want some real light they do. A Bowens 1000 joule flash head with good old technology Xenon discharge tube:



Fastest sync for a full power flash: 1/8000 sec. So 1000J/125us = 8 MW. Let's see your improved technology [LED] do that without vaporising its bonding. 

Fleshlight is a masturbation aid.

There cleared that up.

[Cerebus]

I performed few simple tests with standard waveforms (80 MHz sine, 1 MHz square wave).

Looking at the risetime and the 20/40dB breakpoint in the FFT, you need a squarer wave 

Be very careful what to allow the ground lead to touch. But you know that

Yes  and yes 
soon(tm)

That’s rather cool that is. I keep seeing various PCI cards on eBay for not much like that. Perhaps I should consider them 

As for torches, I can make phone calls, browse eevblog and buy test gear on mine so ner ner 

The PCI technology is slowly but surely dying. I guess in ~10 years it will be very difficult to get this type of hardware running. The PC hardware is getting more and more obsolete, the software and drivers aren't supported anymore and there is a lack of documentation, too. Unfortunately, the Internet forgets, too. I am glad there is such as thing as archive.org. It helps alot to grab almost forgotten PDFs from early 2000's.

For this project, I'll probably buy an inexpensive dedicated PC (dated 2006-2008ish) with enough PCI slots in order to keep those digitizers alive.

There exist PCIe to PCI adapters, not even expensive. A few years newer on the pc goes a long way...
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Schnittstellenkarte-Adapterkarte-Contollerkarte-Videoschnittkarte/dp/B00EA04I2C

They are only good for half-height PCI cards and electronics related cards are rarely (if ever) half-height.

McBryce.

If you want, or need, to go the whole hog you can get PCI card crates that connect up with a PCIe cable. Might be quite a reasonable way to build quite a test rig once the price of PCI DAC/Scope/Voltmeter cards hits a nadir.

[Cerebus]

Ooh, and what do we have here Mr. postman?

[McBryce]

Ooh, and what do we have here Mr. postman?

Ooo, I hope it's something that would survive the drop that caused the end of the box to "accordion" like that!

McBryce.

[dl6lr]

Ah, yes .... we remember that fan.

Yea, that fan generated a ton of discussion and controversy when it was revealed that the original, and very loud, AC powered fan was pulling the outside air into the scope and exhausting it through the front panel. Many stated that couldn't possibly be correct but that's how that fan assembly came to me. But I solved the issue and calmed down the masses but ditching that noisy AC fan and installing an 80mm DC fan on a variable supply and set it up to pull the air in through the front panel and into the scope which in turned exhausted to outside air. Even with the DC fan set to almost whisper quiet it was enough to make a remarkable difference in keeping the scope cool.     

Sucking the cold air in through a filter and pressing it into the equipment is an excellent idea, one that is unheard of by PC designers. As the filtered air is forced into the device, dust will not collect at all holes, which it does when the air is sucked out of the cabinet.

Bernd

[mnementh]

(I think they congregate and hide wherever my tape measures and the 10mm & 1/2” sockets go when they disappear.)

I hear you about the 10mm sockets.  You can never have enough of them, can you?!

In fact I said this to an old family friend and she went out and bought up every loose 10mm half inch drive socket she could find at a local tool shop.  They only had 3 - but she presented them to me as a birthday gift.

A few weeks ago I was in Bunnings (yes, I know I spend far too much time there - so sue me) and they had some Kincrome items on clearance.  When I saw these, I just had to grab them....

They are all 10mm - in ¹/₄", ³/₈" and ¹/₂" drive.

Showed them to my friend and she cracked up.


Edit:  They also had a rail with 13mm sockets, but I didn't feel that adventurous.

Ummm.... you mention the ever elusive 1/2-in socket, yet in the same breath tell us how you passed on a rail of 13mm the same assortment as your 10mm? You do realize that 13mm is a few thou larger than 1/2-in, so will work on both in nearly every situation?

It's when you try to use 1/2-in in place of a 13mm that you inevitably find yerself deep in a hole and fucked for the right size.

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

Ooh, and what do we have here Mr. postman?

Ooo, I hope it's something that would survive the drop that caused the end of the box to "accordion" like that!

McBryce.

That caused me momentary worry, especially as there was a faint rattling noise. Contrary to how I expect the fates to treat me, the rattling noise turned out to be good.

[mnementh]

Yes but can you light up a post 2 miles away or produce a light so bright it requires sun glasses?   

TBH the Manker MK 36 is too bright on high to be useful.   

Yes. many times over. 

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

Ah, yes .... we remember that fan.

Yea, that fan generated a ton of discussion and controversy when it was revealed that the original, and very loud, AC powered fan was pulling the outside air into the scope and exhausting it through the front panel. Many stated that couldn't possibly be correct but that's how that fan assembly came to me. But I solved the issue and calmed down the masses but ditching that noisy AC fan and installing an 80mm DC fan on a variable supply and set it up to pull the air in through the front panel and into the scope which in turned exhausted to outside air. Even with the DC fan set to almost whisper quiet it was enough to make a remarkable difference in keeping the scope cool.     

Sucking the cold air in through a filter and pressing it into the equipment is an excellent idea, one that is unheard of by PC designers. As the filtered air is forced into the device, dust will not collect at all holes, which it does when the air is sucked out of the cabinet.

Bernd

,my pc sucks in cool air via 2 x 140 mm fans and a filter and then blows out that heated air via 3 x 140 mm fans and that, and it was designed that way by the manufacturers so this is nothing new. 

[med6753]

Cleared off bench 2 and slid the Type 547 from the corner to mid bench. No lifting was involved. The first issue I'm going to go after is the horizontal amplifier. It's located up top so it's easy access. From what little trace that appears on the CRT both A & B sweeps are working. I can see the trace start to flicker as I lower the sweep speed. So in theory it should be a simple matter of tracking the sweep ramp wave through the horizontal amplifier until it goes wonky. For that I'm gonna make the Siglent SDS 1052L earn it's keep. And the 87 is there to verify voltages. Wish me luck.


   

[mnementh]

There are also these that should be more applicable:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32998721556.html

Hey thanks for the advice ch_scr. Actually, I bought such a device (PCIe to PCI bridge). It worked perfectly with my other NI PCI-GPIB card. The PCIe/PCI bridge is standardized so therefore native drivers exist - no proprietary drivers needed.

I thought I could use this one for a full-length PCI card, such as NI PCI-5105. It works until the card starts drawing lot of power (>25 W) - suddenly the PC freezes and I have to reboot.

   

In order to supply enough power to the card, one has to connect the PCI bridge to a PC power supply. This is done by a MOLEX connector, which is placed really bad on the PCB.



There is a collision between the connector and the card (see picture), so this construction is unusable. I'll try to desolder the connector and put it on the bottom side of the PCB instead.



This PCIe-PCI bridge solution works fine in certain cases but you have to be careful because of unforeseen software and hardware issues. On a different system, I had Windows 10 Update (I think it was the major update in 2019) problems which were pinpointed down to the used PCIe/PCI bridge. Nevertheless, 20 bucks for a "maybe it will work" solution can be worth spending.

Just wanted to warn everybody from cheap chinesium

Ummm yeah... I was going to suggest that, but then I realized the resulting product would actually be this, which I own and is in a box in the shed:


Only with even less usability due to requiring an actual DOS-box instead of a laptop or tablet and almost as bad UI due to being made for WinXP...

mnem
There's enuf misery to go around without grabbing for more." ~mom

[mansaxel]

(I think they congregate and hide wherever my tape measures and the 10mm & 1/2” sockets go when they disappear.)

I hear you about the 10mm sockets.  You can never have enough of them, can you?!

In fact I said this to an old family friend and she went out and bought up every loose 10mm half inch drive socket she could find at a local tool shop.  They only had 3 - but she presented them to me as a birthday gift.

This must be an recently-ex-Imperial-country thing. Yes, I've got 10mm sockets, M6 is a very common thread. I have 6 sockets, and I know where all of them are. I also know where my 3/8" AF socket is, and my 1/2" one.  I know where the 9/16" one is too, but am a bit hazy on the spanner side; as I have 3 off 9/16" open and ring spanners (Ringmaulschlüssel), they are "somewhere". I bought one when we moved in here, since the pool uses 9/16" for the pump. I inherited one from my maternal grandfather. And, when I gave in and bought a roll of AF spanners, I got one there too. Yes, I've also got BSW style "thread dimension marking" spanners, as well as a little BA set. Rabbit holes come in clusters.

Edit: I'm fully in agreement on the "Tape measure" part; I've got 5, and only a general idea as to their whereabouts. But the Talmeter is in my pocket, as a last resort.  Same goes for folding meter sticks. If they're found, it's by the children who invariably break them. Or did; I've had my recent flock of sticks for a while now.

The Talmeter:

[mnementh]

Offering £1 is a good way to fix stupid 

Nope, scared it might be accepted 

Pay for it, then refuse delivery. 

mnem
 

Oh now that's a level of bastardry I couldn't even imagine. Hats off to you my friend 

   

   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ new bar is now over here somewhere →

...There exist PCIe to PCI adapters, not even expensive. A few years newer on the pc goes a long way...
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Schnittstellenkarte-Adapterkarte-Contollerkarte-Videoschnittkarte/dp/B00EA04I2C

They are only good for half-height PCI cards and electronics related cards are rarely (if ever) half-height.

McBryce.

If you want, or need, to go the whole hog you can get PCI card crates that connect up with a PCIe cable. Might be quite a reasonable way to build quite a test rig once the price of PCI DAC/Scope/Voltmeter cards hits a nadir.

Oh, I have been outdone.     What a truly heinous act; to set someone down that path. Hats off to you, sir.   *knocks bd's hat off too, just on GP*


mnem

[Cerebus]

The parcel was that HP 53132A 225MHz Universal Counter that I've been expecting.

So, the eBay description for this:

Condition:   For parts or not working : 
Seller notes:   “Readout is bright and visible. Passes self test upon startup. No cables or accessories included. Comes with a power cable. May need to be calibrated. I was told this is working without issue, but I'm not a technician and able to test this further than self test. AS-IS. No returns. Very clean and nice condition.”

The vendor was careless with their shutter speed when photographing a multiplexed display, so it turned out looking like this:



When it should look like this when it has no inputs and is sitting idle after the self-test.



So I reckon that put a bunch of people off.

It was listed BIN at $449.10 USD and after a few days in my watch list I got an offer for $350USD. "Passes self test" thinks I, can't be too bad, I'll take a punt.

So, $350 USD plus $98.30 USD 'priority' USPS carriage and I'm off for $448.30USD in total. That came to £339.54 GBP by the time it had hit me. Add £68.71 customs including a £12 handling carge from Parcelfarce, and I'm out of pocket for £408.25. Not a bad price if it's fully working and in as good condition as all the photos suggested. A bare, no fancy options, 53132A seems to go for closer to twice that. Excluding the usual "You think you'll get what for it?" listings the going rate seems to be in the £700-900 bracket.

So, the result? It's fully working and in clean and tidy condition. The VFD is as bright and crisp as new one. But what about that rattling noise?

OK, so remember, no fancy options, and the back panel attests to that:



So, cover off to discover the source of the rattling:



Oh! It's the loose plug from the Ultra-stabilty timebase option 012 that it doesn't have! (Circa 400 sobs for a working 2nd hand example!)

Sadly the option 012 isn't working when plugged in. But, it's still a bonus and with a bit of diagnosis on the bench I may even get it working. So far I've just tested it in situ and with it plugged in the meter comes up, but the timebase is clearly kaput - the 10MHz output on the back gives a wavering signal in the loose region of 15kHz. Next step will be to put that on the scope and see what's there. After that it's get the option card out, hook up 3, possibly 4 power rails (-12, +12, +5 and an apparently optional +9) to bench supplies and see what's what. There are tants on the card, which is always suspicious and might yield a quick fix.

I had resigned myself to having to design and make my own OCXO based timebase for this. Including sourcing at least one obsolete DAC for it. Looks like, with a bit of luck, my job is instead fixing the 'free' option 012 I got. Cushty!

[DH7DN]

Ummm yeah... I was going to suggest that, but then I realized the resulting product would actually be this, which I own and is in a box in the shed:

Sacrilege! 

Shamelessly stolen meme:



I need those shiny digitizers for waveform analysis and DSP. No worries, there is an army of 7 analogue oscilloscope in my lab! 

[Cerebus]

Sorry, forgot the obligatory 'working' photo:



That's being fed from the (prototype) GPSDO with the GPSDO indicating 10,000,000.004 33 Hz (uncertainty 0.000 16 Hz k=1) so the seller was right "needs calibrating". But look at all those lovely digits, all 12 of them.

[mnementh]

Flashlights?  Did somone mention flashlights???    I may have a few. 

Left to right: BLF LT1, BLF Q8, Manker MK36, Emisar D4S, Sofirn IF25A Lumintop FW3 (copper) and one more.

   ...I've got several more.  Just need to remember where I put them   

mnem