Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[med6753]

hooray for diverse TECHNICAL discussion!!!

Fixed it for you. 

[bd139]

PHE have suggested that Pfizer is 96% effective and AZ is 92% effective against hospitalisation so far against Delta. That's pretty good.

We appear to be the only country which has any decent data on anything at the moment which is also pretty good.

We have very little into on long covid, of course. That may well be more significant than the death rate, over the coming decades.

Yes that is my main concern. I've lost one team member to it already.

Tomorrow, in the UK, is being called "Freedom Day", where legal restrictions on what we can w.r.t. covid are being removed. We will be living in a petri dish, watched by the entire world.

Most sheeple think "freedom" refers to their freedom. A more useful realisation is that the government has given themselves the freedom to absolve themselves of the consequences, and shift the blame onto the "feckless people".

We’re called it HMB day at work (hold my beer).

[ch_scr]

SWMBO will certainly confirm that the difference is noticeable with the A/C switched on in a car with a 2.0 litre engine.
It just so happens that this car has a manual transmission.
The car engine & transmission get warmed up enough to reach normal operating temperatures, then it automatically switches to maximum A/C in our hot & humid conditions.
Of course this coincides with the end of the local road with a stop sign before merging onto the highway.
I start off normally, but fail to compensate for the sudden extra load of the A/C.  That results in a start with RPMs too low and it is not smooth.
Also concerning, is the lack of acceleration to join the highway.  Luckily, our COVID routine has us driving when the traffic is light.
Now that it has happened a couple of times with SWMBO as passenger; I have compensated and things go smoothly now but without a passenger so I cannot demonstrate that I can in fact drive just fine. 

My Civic with a 1.7 liter engine and manual transmission is certainly like that. It feels like you are dragging an anchor. The CR-V with a 2.4 liter engine and automatic is much less but still noticeable.   

My Peugeot 107 with the 1L engine also has AC. Turning it on on the motorway really feels like hitting the brakes 
Not sure what the point in an bigger engine is if you still feel it that much?

[McBryce]

Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.

Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Kind of. Car windscreens are mainly laminated to keep the glass together after it has shattered instead of having a wall of shards flying towards you if something breaks the windscreen.

McBryce.

It's both. They're stronger and large shards are kept captive. If it were just the shard protection, they'd be made of tempered glass that shatters into tiny grit like the side windows.

In many modern cars, the windshield(s) is/are actually part of the stiffness of the monocoque; it provides part of the roof crush support that used to be entirely provided by traditional A/B/C pillar design.

There was a lawsuit a decade or so back in which a replacement windshield popped out of a vehicle during an accident due to improper installation, and the roof of the vehicle collapsed breaking the driver's neck, when according to the manufacturer, it should have maintained integrity. Lots of investigation, enginerding, etc... but ultimately it was found that the windshield was cemented in place improperly, making the glass company liable.

mnem
 

Front windscreens are made of tempered glass and shatter in cubes just like the side glass, and although they do offer some physical strength / stiffness to the vehicle during a rollover, this factor is ignored in the mathematics because the pillars need to be able to support the weight of the vehicle even when all windows have failed. So it's a bonus, but not essential.

McBryce.

Car windscreens have not been made from toughened / tempered glass for many years. They are made from laminated glass with very few exceptions (it is mandated for car windscreens in most countries).
The added strength when bonded in is imprtant to many car designs.
 EDIT, Cerebus beat me to it.

Cars still use tempered glass, as this is what makes the glass break in cubes rather than long sharp shards. Lamination is usually only on the front windscreen but some manufacturers have started using it on side windows too which can be a problem. The windscreen of course adds strength to the design, I wasn't saying it didn't. I was just pointing out that the pillars still have to be designed strong enough to support the vehicle if the glass is missing / broken. The stiffness, especially in X/Y plane torsion is the main structural component of the windscreen.

[/quote]
I think that you are talking about the older type of cars that used a rubber surround to hold the windscreen in place. Modern cars are laminated and are held in place by a special type of adhesive and designed to prevent passengers from going through the glass and being ejected into the path of the vehicle in the event of an accident. Hence, why you can often see vehicles which have massive cracks in their windscreens, and the screen has not shattered into the cubes you mention like the door windows do. The side windows are so designed as they may be used as an emergency escape hatch in the event of the doors jamming each other shut after an accident, and you can buy special glass hammers to keep in the car for such an incident and hitting the side glass with the pointed part of the hammer will cause the glass to shatter and present a means of escape from the vehicle.
[/quote]

No, I mean current windscreens with bonding. Yes, they crack, but they don't shatter. The type of "chip" you get in a front windscreen could never happen with a standard pain of glass, even laminated glass, so the glass definitively has some level of tempering.

McBryce.

P.s. I am in discussions later this week with a Saint Cobain Engineer. I'll ask him exactly what process they are using on windscreens today.


P.p.s. Maybe I'm not explaining this properly, let's try with pictures. This is how standard glass breaks: Long sharp shards along the stress lines. And the other picture is how a windscreen breaks: Stress evenly spread across the entire surface. Not quite the "sugar effect" you get from breaking a side window, but far from standard glass too.

[Specmaster]

SWMBO will certainly confirm that the difference is noticeable with the A/C switched on in a car with a 2.0 litre engine.
It just so happens that this car has a manual transmission.
The car engine & transmission get warmed up enough to reach normal operating temperatures, then it automatically switches to maximum A/C in our hot & humid conditions.
Of course this coincides with the end of the local road with a stop sign before merging onto the highway.
I start off normally, but fail to compensate for the sudden extra load of the A/C.  That results in a start with RPMs too low and it is not smooth.
Also concerning, is the lack of acceleration to join the highway.  Luckily, our COVID routine has us driving when the traffic is light.
Now that it has happened a couple of times with SWMBO as passenger; I have compensated and things go smoothly now but without a passenger so I cannot demonstrate that I can in fact drive just fine. 

My Civic with a 1.7 liter engine and manual transmission is certainly like that. It feels like you are dragging an anchor. The CR-V with a 2.4 liter engine and automatic is much less but still noticeable.   

Maybe, I don't notice that in my car as it is a diesel, 6 speed automatic with 350nm of torque and max power kicks in at just 1750RPM and extends to 2500RPM which equates to just about our national speed limit of 70MPH. Perhaps petrol or gas engines have a narrower power band which makes power delivery less linear and smooth?

[mansaxel]

My Civic with a 1.7 liter engine and manual transmission is certainly like that. It feels like you are dragging an anchor. The CR-V with a 2.4 liter engine and automatic is much less but still noticeable.   

My Peugeot 107 with the 1L engine also has AC. Turning it on on the motorway really feels like hitting the brakes 
Not sure what the point in an bigger engine is if you still feel it that much?

It is not noticeable on either the 140hp 2,4l suction petrol (B5244S2) on my previous Volvo or the present one which is a D5244 T4 (same size but 185hp Diesel and turbocharger) Just drinks more fuel  .  The torque (400Nm) of that diesel engine once it hits 2000rpm is very addictive. A 2-ton estate car being pushed forcibly forward, in every gear -- once you hit the sweet Nm spot -- is very smile-generating. 

[Specmaster]

@McBryce
No, no you are so wrong, toughened glass is used for the door and side windows and also the rear screen, but actual windscreens are laminated and are a legal requirement on all modern vehicles. There are many safety reasons for requiring laminated glass for windscreens, and one of the main ones is the need to retain the meatbags (people) within the car in the event of them not having their seatbelts on at the time of an impact. People are far safer inside the car than being propelled at xxMPH into what ever the car is crashing into, which could be at speeds far greater than the car they are in which greatly increase the likelihood of being killed instantly.

This might help explain in more detail https://www.fleetmotorglass.co.uk/different-types-glass-used-car-windscreens/

[mansaxel]

Oh, why, oh why the flying fuck is the input-ground-output pin sequence on LM7815 and LM7915 not the same?

[tggzzz]

Oh, why, oh why the flying fuck is the input-ground-output pin sequence on LM7815 and LM7915 not the same?

That catches everybody out, hopefully only once.

[McBryce]

@McBryce
No, no you are so wrong, toughened glass is used for the door and side windows and also the rear screen, but actual windscreens are laminated and are a legal requirement on all modern vehicles. There are many safety reasons for requiring laminated glass for windscreens, and one of the main ones is the need to retain the meatbags (people) within the car in the event of them not having their seatbelts on at the time of an impact. People are far safer inside the car than being propelled at xxMPH into what ever the car is crashing into, which could be at speeds far greater than the car they are in which greatly increase the likelihood of being killed instantly.

This might help explain in more detail https://www.fleetmotorglass.co.uk/different-types-glass-used-car-windscreens/

You better not tell my employers! I have been designing cars and car components for almost 30 years and currently manage a vehicle engineering team for a German OEM. I'll pass this information on to the glass engineer when I meet him later in the week, I'm sure he'll be interested to hear that his design requirements are all wrong and that he should be taking advice from a glass repair shop.

Yes, the glass keeps the people inside the car if they were stupid enough to be driving without a seatbelt, but it is not part of the requirements to be a backup for stupid people. The seatbelt and airbags are the only components with requirements to keep the people inside the car.

McBryce.

[Specmaster]

My Civic with a 1.7 liter engine and manual transmission is certainly like that. It feels like you are dragging an anchor. The CR-V with a 2.4 liter engine and automatic is much less but still noticeable.   

My Peugeot 107 with the 1L engine also has AC. Turning it on on the motorway really feels like hitting the brakes 
Not sure what the point in an bigger engine is if you still feel it that much?

It is not noticeable on either the 140hp 2,4l suction petrol (B5244S2) on my previous Volvo or the present one which is a D5244 T4 (same size but 185hp Diesel and turbocharger) Just drinks more fuel  .  The torque (400Nm) of that diesel engine once it hits 2000rpm is very addictive. A 2-ton estate car being pushed forcibly forward, in every gear -- once you hit the sweet Nm spot -- is very smile-generating. 

Agreed, I get a great sense of satisfaction when following smaller engined cars when they hit a hill, their speed drops as the engine runs out of steam whereas I can just keep going all day and night at the same speed and just take a small hit in MPG figures. I just love riding that wall of torque, it is so addictive.

[BU508A]

Oh, why, oh why the flying fuck is the input-ground-output pin sequence on LM7815 and LM7915 not the same?

    

Sorry for laughing, but I've experienced exactly the same when I've designed a new PCB for my elrad PSU.

Please note those cables on the left, dangling in the breeze. 

[Andrew_Debbie]

I thought it was a good deal, almost went for it myself as its a 4 channel unit. Maybe your Air Con just needs a recharge? If so its around the £40 mark and is so much better than driving with the windows open, which cause drag, buffeting, popped ear drums and of course a far bigger hike in fuel bills than powering the AC costs.

.....

Unfortunately it requires HFO-1234yf which is considerably more expensive. I don't drive it enough to bother fixing it properly.

AirCon is a closed system. Refilling without fixing the leak is temporary fix at best.    With HFO-1234yf it is an expensive temporary fix.


Half the cars we've owned since moving to the UK didn't even have AC. Most of time it is simply unnecessary.


Going to discuss buying the 'scope with Debbie.   The money isn't an issue, but scheduling time for collection is.     ABRP tells me  7hours 8 minutes round trip from Anglesey with 3 stops to recharge.  With traffic and possibly queues at the chargers it would be more like 8 hours.     Of course I could leave Anglesey at 5AM or something insane like that and avoid the traffic on the outbound leg.

[capt bullshot]

Oh, why, oh why the flying fuck is the input-ground-output pin sequence on LM7815 and LM7915 not the same?

Because the middle pin is connected to the tab. And the die is soldered to the tab. And the die substrate is at the most negative potential. Easy, isn't it?
Both use an large NPN transistor as the output element. 78xx have it configured as emitter follower, 79xx have the collector at the output - so 78xx can run happily without output capacitor, but 79xx not.

But why the fuck is the pinout of a 78Lxx just the other way 'round than a 78xx?

[Specmaster]

@McBryce
No, no you are so wrong, toughened glass is used for the door and side windows and also the rear screen, but actual windscreens are laminated and are a legal requirement on all modern vehicles. There are many safety reasons for requiring laminated glass for windscreens, and one of the main ones is the need to retain the meatbags (people) within the car in the event of them not having their seatbelts on at the time of an impact. People are far safer inside the car than being propelled at xxMPH into what ever the car is crashing into, which could be at speeds far greater than the car they are in which greatly increase the likelihood of being killed instantly.

This might help explain in more detail https://www.fleetmotorglass.co.uk/different-types-glass-used-car-windscreens/

You better not tell my employers! I have been designing cars and car components for almost 30 years and currently manage a vehicle engineering team for a German OEM. I'll pass this information on to the glass engineer when I meet him later in the week, I'm sure he'll be interested to hear that his design requirements are all wrong and that he should be taking advice from a glass repair shop.

Yes, the glass keeps the people inside the car if they were stupid enough to be driving without a seatbelt, but it is not part of the requirements to be a backup for stupid people. The seatbelt and airbags are the only components with requirements to keep the people inside the car.

McBryce.

Firstly, the glass repair shop you refer to is a specialist autoglass one and as such should certainly have to comply with the relevant legal requirements both in terms of the type of glass they provide and fit and their advertising. Secondly, as far as I can ascertain, it was certainly legal for vehicles first used prior to 1986 to have tempered glass in their windscreens. This I also know from working very closely with the MOT (Ministry of Transport) inspectors when submitting buses and coaches for their annual PSV certification. Back in the day, when a windscreen on such vehicles was struck by a stone etc they used to shatter into the tiny cubes as you mentioned. I have on many occasions been charged with the duty of driving a replacement vehicle to the incident, so the service vehicle crew can transfer the passengers to the new vehicle and continues their journey. I would then have to push into the cab, any remaining bits of glass and then either fit a new screen there and then, or pop on some eye protection glasses and drive the vehicle back to the dept and fit the replacement screen there.

Vehicles first used after 1986 AFAIK should have laminated windscreens fitted, but all other windows could be still be tempered glass. The use of laminated screens was never intended to be as a backup for stupid people who did not wear their seat belts, (you can't fix stupid) but an added safety factor. The person hitting the screen would still receive injuries but not as severe as those sustained as those caused by penetrating the glass, receiving extensive cuts on the way and almost certain death if they hit the vehicle coming the opposite direction into them, which could more than double the impact.

The airbag system AFAIK was never specially designed to prevent people or objects from going through the windscreen, instead its purpose is to cushion the passenger's head when impacting with objects like dashboard, steering wheel and even windscreens, in an attempt to further reduce serious injury occurring. 

[Specmaster]

I thought it was a good deal, almost went for it myself as its a 4 channel unit. Maybe your Air Con just needs a recharge? If so its around the £40 mark and is so much better than driving with the windows open, which cause drag, buffeting, popped ear drums and of course a far bigger hike in fuel bills than powering the AC costs.

.....

Unfortunately it requires HFO-1234yf which is considerably more expensive. I don't drive it enough to bother fixing it properly.

AirCon is a closed system. Refilling without fixing the leak is temporary fix at best.    With HFO-1234yf it is an expensive temporary fix.

Half the cars we've owned since moving to the UK didn't even have AC. Most of time it is simply unnecessary.

Going to discuss buying the 'scope with Debbie.   The money isn't an issue, but scheduling time for collection is.     ABRP tells me  7hours 8 minutes round trip from Anglesey with 3 stops to recharge.  With traffic and possibly queues at the chargers it would be more like 8 hours.     Of course I could leave Anglesey at 5AM or something insane like that and avoid the traffic on the outbound leg.

Good luck with the hopeful purchase of that scope, it certainly looks to be good, only one slight niggle for me is I wonder why they didn't show it working on channels 3 and 4, but that could be perhaps because Shpock has a limit on the number of photos you can use?

Please keep us all updated on your progress with this?

[Saskia]

Eff my life. Emigration to Austria cancelled due to another family emergency/catastrophe.

[Robert763]

Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.

Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Kind of. Car windscreens are mainly laminated to keep the glass together after it has shattered instead of having a wall of shards flying towards you if something breaks the windscreen.

McBryce.

It's both. They're stronger and large shards are kept captive. If it were just the shard protection, they'd be made of tempered glass that shatters into tiny grit like the side windows.

In many modern cars, the windshield(s) is/are actually part of the stiffness of the monocoque; it provides part of the roof crush support that used to be entirely provided by traditional A/B/C pillar design.

There was a lawsuit a decade or so back in which a replacement windshield popped out of a vehicle during an accident due to improper installation, and the roof of the vehicle collapsed breaking the driver's neck, when according to the manufacturer, it should have maintained integrity. Lots of investigation, enginerding, etc... but ultimately it was found that the windshield was cemented in place improperly, making the glass company liable.

mnem
 

Front windscreens are made of tempered glass and shatter in cubes just like the side glass, and although they do offer some physical strength / stiffness to the vehicle during a rollover, this factor is ignored in the mathematics because the pillars need to be able to support the weight of the vehicle even when all windows have failed. So it's a bonus, but not essential.

McBryce.

Car windscreens have not been made from toughened / tempered glass for many years. They are made from laminated glass with very few exceptions (it is mandated for car windscreens in most countries).
The added strength when bonded in is imprtant to many car designs.
 EDIT, Cerebus beat me to it.

Cars still use tempered glass, as this is what makes the glass break in cubes rather than long sharp shards. Lamination is usually only on the front windscreen but some manufacturers have started using it on side windows too which can be a problem. The windscreen of course adds strength to the design, I wasn't saying it didn't. I was just pointing out that the pillars still have to be designed strong enough to support the vehicle if the glass is missing / broken. The stiffness, especially in X/Y plane torsion is the main structural component of the windscreen.

I think that you are talking about the older type of cars that used a rubber surround to hold the windscreen in place. Modern cars are laminated and are held in place by a special type of adhesive and designed to prevent passengers from going through the glass and being ejected into the path of the vehicle in the event of an accident. Hence, why you can often see vehicles which have massive cracks in their windscreens, and the screen has not shattered into the cubes you mention like the door windows do. The side windows are so designed as they may be used as an emergency escape hatch in the event of the doors jamming each other shut after an accident, and you can buy special glass hammers to keep in the car for such an incident and hitting the side glass with the pointed part of the hammer will cause the glass to shatter and present a means of escape from the vehicle.
[/quote]

No, I mean current windscreens with bonding. Yes, they crack, but they don't shatter. The type of "chip" you get in a front windscreen could never happen with a standard pain of glass, even laminated glass, so the glass definitively has some level of tempering.

McBryce.

P.s. I am in discussions later this week with a Saint Cobain Engineer. I'll ask him exactly what process they are using on windscreens today.


P.p.s. Maybe I'm not explaining this properly, let's try with pictures. This is how standard glass breaks: Long sharp shards along the stress lines. And the other picture is how a windscreen breaks: Stress evenly spread across the entire surface. Not quite the "sugar effect" you get from breaking a side window, but far from standard glass too.
[/quote]

Both those photos show plain un-toughened/tempered glass. One is two layers laminated together with more damage. Toughened glass has internal stresses that cause the whole piece to shatter once the oter layer is fractured. The fact that modern car windscreens can have a single crack is evidence that they are not toughened. Maybe we have a language / terminology issues here.
By toughened / tempered I mean glass that has been heated beyond it's transition temperature and then rapidly cooled.

It is easilly detected by viewing through a linear polarising filter. This causes the internal stress pattern to appear.

[BU508A]

Eff my life. Emigration to Austria cancelled due to another family emergency/catastrophe.

 

Best wishes from my side. And I hope, there are better days ahead for you and your family.

[Robert763]

 One big advantage of laminated glass over toughened is you can still see the road after a stone strike. Certainly in the UK there was probably more hazard due to that than hitting the screen post the seat belt law.
This is what drove the laminated requirement in the UK at least. In the Construction and use regulations there was a change in the mid 1980's from requiring "safety glass" to "specified safety glass" (reference my printed copy of the construction and use regulations of the era). Apart from laminated, there was an option for a selectively toughened glass where the section directly in front of the driver "primary vision area" was not toughened and remained clear if the rest shattered (BS 857). This glass was not common (I've seen one windscreen like this in broken condition). Most companies switched to laminated bonded windscreens because of the saving in weght and increased body stiffness.
Having had a toughened screen break (on a classic car with no warning and no stone thrown up as no other car around) it's pretty scary. I was on a twisty narrow road at night and I was doing the speed limit. I ended up pretty much across the road at a bend. Fortunatly nothing was coming the other way.

[McBryce]

One big advantage of laminated glass over toughened is you can still see the road after a stone strike. Certainly in the UK there was probably more hazard due to that than hitting the screen post the seat belt law.
This is what drove the laminated requirement in the UK at least. In the Construction and use regulations there was a change in the mid 1980's from requiring "safety glass" to "specified safety glass" (reference my printed copy of the construction and use regulations of the era). Apart from laminated, there was an option for a selectively toughened glass where the section directly in front of the driver "primary vision area" was not toughened and remained clear if the rest shattered (BS 857). This glass was not common (I've seen one windscreen like this in broken condition). Most companies switched to laminated bonded windscreens because of the saving in weght and increased body stiffness.
Having had a toughened screen break (on a classic car with no warning and no stone thrown up as no other car around) it's pretty scary. I was on a twisty narrow road at night and I was doing the speed limit. I ended up pretty much across the road at a bend. Fortunatly nothing was coming the other way.

Just out of interest and because I happen to be in an e-mail back and forth with the engineer responsible for the glass in my current product (because the rain/light sensor isn't working as it should), I asked him whether the windscreen is tempered / toughened etc in our vehicle. His "you philistine's!" answer was: We are all simplifying the glass down to a single object with a single process, it is far from that simple. Modern glass will have different heat treatments for different areas of the glass, depending on the surface area, curve, total size of the screen, angle of the screen, glass thickness etc. It could have multiple areas with different processes and different levels of tempering / toughening. It's not completely tempered, but it's also not untempered.

By the way, although the UK like to have their own BS standards, no car manufacturer that I know of actually uses them. As most OEMs want to sell their cars in many countries, the ECE Regulations (No. 43 in this case) are what are normally used (even in traditional UK companies).

McBryce.

[Cerebus]

P.p.s. Maybe I'm not explaining this properly, let's try with pictures. This is how standard glass breaks: Long sharp shards along the stress lines. And the other picture is how a windscreen breaks: Stress evenly spread across the entire surface. Not quite the "sugar effect" you get from breaking a side window, but far from standard glass too.

That is without a doubt laminated glass, you can see it sagging on the left, held in place by the plastic lamination. If that were straight toughened glass the section there it would have physically fallen out of the rest with that much deflection.

Here's a broken, old fashioned non-bonded, toughened only window.



See how the crazing goes all the way to the edge, across the whole window, and how the impacted area has physically fallen out.

That "sugaring" you are talking about, and seen above, is characteristic of toughened glass. Once enough additional energy has been imparted to the glass to actually get it to break at all, then all the extra energy imbued in the panel by the surface compression that constitutes the toughening is released, quite evenly, across the rest of the panel and it all lets go.

The panel at the top above is laminated, that does not mean that it is not also toughened (although I believe that to be rare). A panel thats is both laminated and toughened may not 'let go' across the whole surface the way toughened glass normally does because the plastic layer in the sandwich may absorb enough energy to prevent the, for want of a better phrase, 'detonation wave' from propogating across the whole panel.

[Andrew_Debbie]

One big advantage of laminated glass over toughened is you can still see the road after a stone strike. Certainly in the UK there was probably more hazard due to that than hitting the screen post the seat belt law.
This is what drove the laminated requirement in the UK at least. In the Construction and use regulations there was a change in the mid 1980's from requiring "safety glass" to "specified safety glass" (reference my printed copy of the construction and use regulations of the era). Apart from laminated, there was an option for a selectively toughened glass where the section directly in front of the driver "primary vision area" was not toughened and remained clear if the rest shattered (BS 857). This glass was not common (I've seen one windscreen like this in broken condition). Most companies switched to laminated bonded windscreens because of the saving in weght and increased body stiffness.
Having had a toughened screen break (on a classic car with no warning and no stone thrown up as no other car around) it's pretty scary. I was on a twisty narrow road at night and I was doing the speed limit. I ended up pretty much across the road at a bend. Fortunatly nothing was coming the other way.

Just out of interest and because I happen to be in an e-mail back and forth with the engineer responsible for the glass in my current product (because the rain/light sensor isn't working as it should), I asked him whether the windscreen is tempered / toughened etc in our vehicle. His "you philistine's!" answer was: We are all simplifying the glass down to a single object with a single process, it is far from that simple. Modern glass will have different heat treatments for different areas of the glass, depending on the surface area, curve, total size of the screen, angle of the screen, glass thickness etc. It could have multiple areas with different processes and different levels of tempering / toughening. It's not completely tempered, but it's also not untempered.

By the way, although the UK like to have their own BS standards, no car manufacturer that I know of actually uses them. As most OEMs want to sell their cars in many countries, the ECE Regulations (No. 43 in this case) are what are normally used (even in traditional UK companies).

McBryce.

When I toured BMW Plants Oxford and Spartenburg  they installed different windscreens depending on the destination country.  Spartenburg happened to be building a UK spec X6 when we walked by and the guide mentioned that UK cars got different glass than the same car built for the US market.   

I don't know if that was just to meet safety standards or if there are market differences.  For example US cars may get darker tint than UK ones.  It is also possible there is an RHD / LHD difference.   No idea.


Not sure about the door glass as the tours skipped over door assembly, which was done on a seperate line.



 

[Specmaster]

Eff my life. Emigration to Austria cancelled due to another family emergency/catastrophe.

So sorry to hear that, but surely there must be a window of opportunity opening shortly, you can't have to many family emergencies surely?

[Cerebus]

Oh, why, oh why the flying fuck is the input-ground-output pin sequence on LM7815 and LM7915 not the same?

Because that would be too simple...