Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 16961520 times)

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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94800 on: July 18, 2021, 02:49:17 pm »
That leaves bums as the major danger. Are any screen protectors advertised as "bum proof"?

I follow a simple rule here....  Don't stick your phone in a back pocket.



Has worked for me for a couple of decades.

Ditto. And I've never cracked a screen either.
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94801 on: July 18, 2021, 02:50:34 pm »
Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.

Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Kind of. Car windscreens are mainly laminated to keep the glass together after it has shattered instead of having a wall of shards flying towards you if something breaks the windscreen.

McBryce.
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94802 on: July 18, 2021, 02:53:26 pm »
Finally got some time to work on the Heath V-5 VTVM rebuild.

Initial front panel wiring completed.



Chassis and front panel now assembled. Interconnect wiring between them next step.

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94803 on: July 18, 2021, 03:00:19 pm »
Anyone here fancy making their own mobile phone? Well now you can apparently https://circuitmess.com/ringo/ at a cost of just £95 for us Brits.

Plus about £5,000 to get it EMC tested for UKCA marking  >:D (not including the GSM module which is presumably already approved).
Technically the exemption for development kits is limited to professional users and for some strange reason hams.

Edit, I've asked them the question.

They advertise that it can be used in the UK (but not Lichetenstein for some reason). If using it here would be illegal, the ASA might be interested.

AFAIK ASA do cover web adverts. If they don't come up with an answer it would e Citizens Advice. Not that they have any budget to do the extra work CE/UKCA enforcement requires. They were just gven the responsibility  :palm:

I’ve worked for ASA on contract. They are basically useless morons. Don’t bother.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94804 on: July 18, 2021, 03:02:10 pm »
That leaves bums as the major danger. Are any screen protectors advertised as "bum proof"?
I follow a simple rule here....  Don't stick your phone in a back pocket.

I often carry my phone in my back pocket or next to a large bunch of keys in my front pocket. That's the beauty of clamshells :)

I also dropped my last phone off the roof onto concrete. Given it cost £10, I was surprised that it survived unscathed.
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94805 on: July 18, 2021, 03:04:44 pm »
The latest line of phones are pretty robust. I’ve got a “mostly glass” iPhone 12 and it’s taken a few really nasty tumbles and lives in the same pocket as my keys most of the time. Looks like the day I bought it.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94806 on: July 18, 2021, 03:20:13 pm »
I have never used a screen protector  :-//
Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.

Wife's phone. Also, all y'alls dogpiling on me over using a screen protector can kiss muh scaly dwagon arse.  ;)

I haven't owned a phone that wasn't Gorilla Glass in over a decade; it's good, but it doesn't save a phone from welding spatter (true story, twice), or rolling over on it with it in your pocket with something against the screen. The former case destroyed the screen; the latter cases the protector died, but the screen didn't, and same with several other cases of drop and "left it someplace stoopit" damage. :palm:

I've learned the hard way what a crapshoot replacing a screen can be; often the only thing you can buy is nowhere near as good glass as the original, or has an utterly shite digitizer that works, but just fucking barely. |O

I know I'm hard on a phone; that's why I buy cheap android handsets. To me they're a consumable, not an investment.

But spending 5-8 bux to give my screen a fighting chance at surviving in a dwagon's pocket...? Cheap insurance, sez I.

mnem
 :popcorn:



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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94807 on: July 18, 2021, 03:37:21 pm »
I actually sat on an iPad Pro and bent it. It bent back.  :-DD

Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.

Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Yes but you don’t really want absolute strength for screens. They’re not designed to catch bricks or bullets like windscreens and bullet proof glass.

You need maximum surface hardness with some ability to bend. Most of the things that screw up screens are tiny sharp impacts, scratches and bending in real usage. Thus you end up with various ceramic glass hybrids rather than laminates. All laminates do in this circumstance is chip irreparably.

Erm, no ceramic glass hybrids here, whatever the marketing wank says. Gorilla glass and friends are "chemically toughened glass" where some of the atoms in the surface layer of glass have been replaced by physically bigger atoms* while leaving the underlying bulk glass untouched, thus building in some compressive force into the outer layer of the glass. The glass remains roughly as hard or soft as it was in the beginning. It still scratches, but the compressive forces in the outer layer close the scratches after they have happened so that they don't propagate and turn into cracks.

So your toughened glass actual gets as many scratches as your untoughened glass you just don't see them because they are either squeezed shut (a minor effect) or because scratches too small to see don't propagate into cracks that are big enough to see, driven by Griffith crack propagation (where bonds break, releasing the surface energy of the material, which breaks more bonds, which releases more surface energy etc. etc.). There is a critical length of crack in any material where if the crack stops forming before reaching that length you're OK, if it doesn't the crack propagates to catastrophic failure. For the details in full see "The New Science of Strong Materials Or why you don't fall through the floor" by J.E. Gordon, a book everybody who aspires to call themselves an engineer ought to have read. Similar processes underlie why glass fibres aren't brittle, and why combining brittle plastic resins (epoxy, polyester) with floppy but strong fibres (carbon fibre, glass fibre) creates tough materials, it's all about stopping crack propagation.

* The classic way of doing this is to put soda glass into a fused potassium salt and leave it there for a while. Some sodium atoms leach out of the glass, some potassium atoms which are larger than sodium atoms leach in (aided by the higher temperature). When you take it out and it all cools down the potassium atoms wedged into the glass apply a compressive force to the outer layer, but the inner layer that was too far away hasn't had any diffusion and so acts as the backbone for the (now slightly larger but still intimately attached) outer layer of glass to push against. The secret sauce of Gorilla glass and all the other proprietary chemically toughed glasses is what species you infuse, and how. Some toughened glasses are made with deep ion deposition a la semiconductor doping.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94808 on: July 18, 2021, 03:37:55 pm »
Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.
Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Kind of. Car windscreens are mainly laminated to keep the glass together after it has shattered instead of having a wall of shards flying towards you if something breaks the windscreen.

McBryce.
It's both. They're stronger and large shards are kept captive. If it were just the shard protection, they'd be made of tempered glass that shatters into tiny grit like the side windows.

In many modern cars, the windshield(s) is/are actually part of the stiffness of the monocoque; it provides part of the roof crush support that used to be entirely provided by traditional A/B/C pillar design.

There was a lawsuit a decade or so back in which a replacement windshield popped out of a vehicle during an accident due to improper installation, and the roof of the vehicle collapsed breaking the driver's neck, when according to the manufacturer, it should have maintained integrity. Lots of investigation, enginerding, etc... but ultimately it was found that the windshield was cemented in place improperly, making the glass company liable.

mnem
 :popcorn:
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94809 on: July 18, 2021, 03:44:32 pm »
A good 90-second read on the different kinds of glass commonly in use for screens and watch crystals:

https://www.androidauthority.com/gorilla-glass-comparison-886866/

mnem
Of course, like all such articles, it may leave you with more questions than answers... ???

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Offline Andrew_Debbie

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94810 on: July 18, 2021, 04:16:18 pm »
Heads up for UK buyers looking for 150MHz 4 channel scope, this one just appeared in my search box on Shpock, its in Redditch though, £150 or offer

https://www.shpock.com/en-gb/i/YPFCBgUNjGp9c4Xa/tektronix-2445a-4-channel-150mhz-oscilloscope

Vert tempted.   Looks good in the photos.      New rapid chargers on the M6 make this a practial day trip in the i3.     

I should ask if it passes the power on self tests.


« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 04:25:38 pm by Andrew_Debbie »
 

Online AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94811 on: July 18, 2021, 04:25:35 pm »
I actually sat on an iPad Pro and bent it. It bent back.  :-DD

Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.

Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Yes but you don’t really want absolute strength for screens. They’re not designed to catch bricks or bullets like windscreens and bullet proof glass.

You need maximum surface hardness with some ability to bend. Most of the things that screw up screens are tiny sharp impacts, scratches and bending in real usage. Thus you end up with various ceramic glass hybrids rather than laminates. All laminates do in this circumstance is chip irreparably.

The screen protector in this case is intended as a sacrificial element; it takes the chip, the main screen remains undamaged. The main screens on both my old Samsungs are as good as the day they came out of the box. The J3 screen protector is shattered though still usable, and kept the main screen from damage. The J6 protector I replaced recently as it had become matte from the abrasion of brick, block, and concrete dust that it gets exposed to at work. I've dropped it a few times also, and the gel outer boot has kept it from damage. The screen is still perfect, and the rest is in very good condition.
I'll be getting an additional screen protector for the S61 before I use it, also a gel boot if I can find one, better still an Otter Box (I do like their stuff).



The FLIR ONE seller accepted my return request immediately; not sure if that's just to protect their 100% feedback, or if they already knew it was unreliable. FLIR customer support did offer to replace it, but only if it is still in warranty and bought from an authorised dealer. Since I included the emails (with the name of the CSS redacted) in my return request, maybe the seller can use this information to try and get it swapped. Whatever the case it's no longer my problem.


It did bring up another problem though; when I tried to print out the returns label, my crappy old Lexmark 2600 refused to connect to my PC. This prompted me to dig out the Canon G5050 I bought a while back but never used. Now I've no excuse for not printing stuff out again as this is an ink-tank type, so should be much more reliable and certainly an order of magnitude cheaper to refill.


@ch_scr do you remember that logger we discussed on Discord a couple of weeks ago? I put in an offer of £70 + shipping and it got accepted... ooops. I really need to learn to lowball harder   :-DD
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94812 on: July 18, 2021, 04:55:10 pm »
Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.
Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Kind of. Car windscreens are mainly laminated to keep the glass together after it has shattered instead of having a wall of shards flying towards you if something breaks the windscreen.

McBryce.
It's both. They're stronger and large shards are kept captive. If it were just the shard protection, they'd be made of tempered glass that shatters into tiny grit like the side windows.

In many modern cars, the windshield(s) is/are actually part of the stiffness of the monocoque; it provides part of the roof crush support that used to be entirely provided by traditional A/B/C pillar design.

There was a lawsuit a decade or so back in which a replacement windshield popped out of a vehicle during an accident due to improper installation, and the roof of the vehicle collapsed breaking the driver's neck, when according to the manufacturer, it should have maintained integrity. Lots of investigation, enginerding, etc... but ultimately it was found that the windshield was cemented in place improperly, making the glass company liable.

mnem
 :popcorn:

Front windscreens are made of tempered glass and shatter in cubes just like the side glass, and although they do offer some physical strength / stiffness to the vehicle during a rollover, this factor is ignored in the mathematics because the pillars need to be able to support the weight of the vehicle even when all windows have failed. So it's a bonus, but not essential.

McBryce.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 04:56:59 pm by McBryce »
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 

Offline ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94813 on: July 18, 2021, 05:08:00 pm »
[...]
do you remember that logger we discussed on Discord a couple of weeks ago? I put in an offer of £70 + shipping and it got accepted... ooops. I really need to learn to lowball harder   :-DD[/b]
Thats not too bad a price  >:D
Hope we'll see it around soon  :popcorn:
 

Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94814 on: July 18, 2021, 05:32:53 pm »
Anyone here fancy making their own mobile phone? Well now you can apparently https://circuitmess.com/ringo/ at a cost of just £95 for us Brits.
CAD$220 for a crappy phone/microwave noise generator with a shrunk-down WindowsCE UI that you have to build yourself, plus a cheap LiPo cell in your pocket and all with zero safety vetting cuz "experimental/hobbyist electronics"...? What could possibly go wrong...  :o

mnem
Alien anal probes...? Where do I sign up..?!?

What could possibly go wrong... that is easy to answer!

For starters, the cell network providers in North America control which devices they allow on their networks.
They do that with a modem ID and whitelists.
Make sure the "kit provider" has an agreement with the cell provider where you live and wherever you might travel to.

... at least you might know which alien is probing you.  Is it a good thing that they do selective probing?
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94815 on: July 18, 2021, 05:39:59 pm »
What could possibly go wrong... that is easy to answer!

For starters, the cell network providers in North America control which devices they allow on their networks.
They do that with a modem ID and whitelists.
Make sure the "kit provider" has an agreement with the cell provider where you live and wherever you might travel to.

... at least you might know which alien is probing you.  Is it a good thing that they do selective probing?
I'm confident they use a module. That eliminates much of the heavy lifting in regards to modems. This also may or may not eliminate the need for HF design, which would be a prime source of unwanted noise. Some modules have an antenna port and recommended antennas, and they'll be a good reference design otherwise. Also allows for easy region swapping.

Looks indeed like a module on a subassembly board with a prebuilt antenna.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 05:46:57 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94816 on: July 18, 2021, 05:48:19 pm »

Front windscreens are made of tempered glass and shatter in cubes just like the side glass, and although they do offer some physical strength / stiffness to the vehicle during a rollover, this factor is ignored in the mathematics because the pillars need to be able to support the weight of the vehicle even when all windows have failed. So it's a bonus, but not essential.

McBryce.

You will see quite a lot of vehicle designers saying that the windscreen is an integral part of the design as a stressed member on recent (last 20 years or so) car designs. The workshop manual for my convertible (only has A pillars) goes to some lengths to stress the importance of the bonded glass as a strength member so as the 200 gorilla in the workshop doesn't skimp on the (detailed and painstaking) installation procedure.

The toughness of modern automotive glass allows it to be used as a strength member. Glass has always been a strong material (UTS 1.6 million psi, 11 GPa - compare with mild steel 1020 alloy 61 thousand psi, 420 MPa) but is brittle, toughening it allows more of its innate strength to be utilised. We don't get anywhere near its theoretical strength but even low grade toughened architectural glass has a UTS of at least 70 MPa.  A typical 3-5mm windscreen of high grade toughened glass is probably stronger than a piece of typical 0.9mm mild steel used for car bodies and is certainly stiffer. Saint-Gobain quote a UTS of 200 MPa for their toughened glass.

Also, toughened glass, not tempered. I know that a lot of people use the word tempered and it's pedantic of me to complain, but it's wrong and it deeply annoys me, like people confusing strength, hardness and toughness. Tempering is the process whereby a material that has been hardened by quench cooling is re-heated to relieve stresses or or partially reverse the hardening process to a desired balance of surface/bulk harness. Thermally toughened glass is made by rapid differential cooling of the surface versus the core, tempering it would anneal it turning it back into un-toughened glass.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94817 on: July 18, 2021, 05:49:55 pm »
Neither have I. Protecting Gorilla-glass with more Gorilla-glass always seemed like a pretty futile exercise to me.

McBryce.
Actually if stuck together with a non rigid adhesive it adds a lot of extra strength. That is why windshields and bulletproof glass are laminated.

Kind of. Car windscreens are mainly laminated to keep the glass together after it has shattered instead of having a wall of shards flying towards you if something breaks the windscreen.

McBryce.
It's both. They're stronger and large shards are kept captive. If it were just the shard protection, they'd be made of tempered glass that shatters into tiny grit like the side windows.

In many modern cars, the windshield(s) is/are actually part of the stiffness of the monocoque; it provides part of the roof crush support that used to be entirely provided by traditional A/B/C pillar design.

There was a lawsuit a decade or so back in which a replacement windshield popped out of a vehicle during an accident due to improper installation, and the roof of the vehicle collapsed breaking the driver's neck, when according to the manufacturer, it should have maintained integrity. Lots of investigation, enginerding, etc... but ultimately it was found that the windshield was cemented in place improperly, making the glass company liable.

mnem
 :popcorn:

Front windscreens are made of tempered glass and shatter in cubes just like the side glass, and although they do offer some physical strength / stiffness to the vehicle during a rollover, this factor is ignored in the mathematics because the pillars need to be able to support the weight of the vehicle even when all windows have failed. So it's a bonus, but not essential.

McBryce.

Car windscreens have not been made from toughened / tempered glass for many years. They are made from laminated glass with very few exceptions (it is mandated for car windscreens in most countries).
The added strength when bonded in is imprtant to many car designs.
 EDIT, Cerebus beat me to it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 05:53:43 pm by Robert763 »
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94818 on: July 18, 2021, 06:04:47 pm »
[You will see quite a lot of vehicle designers saying that the windscreen is an integral part of the design as a stressed member on recent (last 20 years or so) car designs. The workshop manual for my convertible (only has A pillars) goes to some lengths to stress the importance of the bonded glass as a strength member so as the 200 gorilla in the workshop doesn't skimp on the (detailed and painstaking) installation procedure.

The toughness of modern automotive glass allows it to be used as a strength member. Glass has always been a strong material (UTS 1.6 million psi, 11 GPa - compare with mild steel 1020 alloy 61 thousand psi, 420 MPa) but is brittle, toughening it allows more of its innate strength to be utilised. We don't get anywhere near its theoretical strength but even low grade toughened architectural glass has a UTS of at least 70 MPa.  A typical 3-5mm windscreen of high grade toughened glass is probably stronger than a piece of typical 0.9mm mild steel used for car bodies and is certainly stiffer. Saint-Gobain quote a UTS of 200 MPa for their toughened glass.

Also, toughened glass, not tempered. I know that a lot of people use the word tempered and it's pedantic of me to complain, but it's wrong and it deeply annoys me, like people confusing strength, hardness and toughness. Tempering is the process whereby a material that has been hardened by quench cooling is re-heated to relieve stresses or or partially reverse the hardening process to a desired balance of surface/bulk harness. Thermally toughened glass is made by rapid differential cooling of the surface versus the core, tempering it would anneal it turning it back into un-toughened glass.
I'm unsure about the performance in a crash but it's definitely part of the rigidity of the structure and therefore the driving characteristics of a modern car. You have a box with huge square holes in it and the glass acts nicely as a cross brace. Like with open shelving a single cross brace makes a world of difference. It's the only window that's a permanent part of the main structure too. It's too good not to make use of. I imagine a convertible can use it even more as those tend to be floppy topless boxes by comparison anyway
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 06:08:03 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94819 on: July 18, 2021, 06:06:39 pm »
Woohoo school cancelled next week due to a positive covid test and cargo cult process. Can sleep in the whole week now :-DD
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94820 on: July 18, 2021, 06:10:24 pm »
Woohoo school cancelled next week due to a positive covid test and cargo cult process. Can sleep in the whole week now :-DD


Don't your kids have the Summer off anyway? They do here unless mandatory Summer school to re-try a failing class.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94821 on: July 18, 2021, 06:16:41 pm »
Woohoo school cancelled next week due to a positive covid test and cargo cult process. Can sleep in the whole week now :-DD

... or a perhaps a positive test for, I'm told, lemon juice? https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/lemon-juice-covid-test-parents-fury-over-pupils-faking-positive-tests-with-tiktok-trick-3294789
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94822 on: July 18, 2021, 06:28:20 pm »
Woohoo school cancelled next week due to a positive covid test and cargo cult process. Can sleep in the whole week now :-DD


Don't your kids have the Summer off anyway? They do here unless mandatory Summer school to re-try a failing class.

Yeah this is basically the week before they go off so it's an extra week. They never do anything of value this week  :-//
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94823 on: July 18, 2021, 06:29:06 pm »
Heads up for UK buyers looking for 150MHz 4 channel scope, this one just appeared in my search box on Shpock, its in Redditch though, £150 or offer

https://www.shpock.com/en-gb/i/YPFCBgUNjGp9c4Xa/tektronix-2445a-4-channel-150mhz-oscilloscope

That’s a pretty good deal actually  :-+

Would be tempted if my air con wasn’t bust  :-DD
I thought it was a good deal, almost went for it myself as its a 4 channel unit. Maybe your Air Con just needs a recharge? If so its around the £40 mark and is so much better than driving with the windows open, which cause drag, buffeting, popped ear drums and of course a far bigger hike in fuel bills than powering the AC costs.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #94824 on: July 18, 2021, 06:31:38 pm »
Woohoo school cancelled next week due to a positive covid test and cargo cult process. Can sleep in the whole week now :-DD

... or a perhaps a positive test for, I'm told, lemon juice? https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/lemon-juice-covid-test-parents-fury-over-pupils-faking-positive-tests-with-tiktok-trick-3294789

It doesn't work. We tried it on our excess tests last weekend. Science project  :-DD
 


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