Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[McBryce]

One thing to add: Always wear underpants when you’re working. Solder blims on your dick aren’t much fun.

No matter how hot the summer is, soldering naked is a really bad idea!

McBryce.

[bd139]

FT817

Correct 

One thing to add: Always wear underpants when you’re working. Solder blims on your dick aren’t much fun.

No matter how hot the summer is, soldering naked is a really bad idea!

McBryce.

Also correct 

[Specmaster]

Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible. This shit makes my brain hurt; especially when you're trying to trace something like a STBY Vcc that goes through what would normally be 2 or 3 diagrams, but now each diagram is broken up across 2-4 pages in SxS or quadrant format...

mnem
I think I'm going to go do something a little less like just    myself... maybe I'll design something in Frustion360.

Welcome to the modern era of CPU's getting incorporated into audio equipment and good luck getting spare parts for them as well, they are something I hate as well, give a proper good old discrete piece of audio gear any day over this modern crap.

About all you can do to retain your sanity with ones like that is to print each page in A3 and then trace the circuit out that you're looking at in coloured pens or highlighters along its path and then hope and pray that you are then able to locate those points of interest on the PCB(s) 

[tggzzz]

About all you can do to retain your sanity with ones like that is to print each page in A3 and then trace the circuit out that you're looking at in coloured pens or highlighters along its path and then hope and pray that you are then able to locate those points of interest on the PCB(s) 

Doesn't work with tantalum power rail decouplers, especially in Tek scopes. Try to find all the 15V tant caps on a 13V rail which are in parallel with C911 in a Tek 485

[bd139]

That’s easy. Look for the smoke! 

[Cerebus]

[Saskia]

oh, still got a couple of those.

17 kgs down, 23 to go.

[mansaxel]

Keithley:

Yours truly (attached).

It's an input selector for the local outdoor dance hall.

[mnementh]

Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible. This shit makes my brain hurt; especially when you're trying to trace something like a STBY Vcc that goes through what would normally be 2 or 3 diagrams, but now each diagram is broken up across 2-4 pages in SxS or quadrant format...

mnem
I think I'm going to go do something a little less like just    myself... maybe I'll design something in Frustion360.

Ahh a Japanese “special”.



Have some Yaesu to make you feel better 

In all honesty... as dense and unsegregated as that schizzmatic is... it's still an order of magnitude better than the Pioneer. Much easier to look at... almost comforting even.

mnem

I'll just direct your attention to No 11 directly above...

[mnementh]

   Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible....

Welcome to the modern era of CPU's getting incorporated into audio equipment and good luck getting spare parts for them as well, they are something I hate as well, give a proper good old discrete piece of audio gear any day over this modern crap.

About all you can do to retain your sanity with ones like that is to print each page in A3 and then trace the circuit out that you're looking at in coloured pens or highlighters along its path and then hope and pray that you are then able to locate those points of interest on the PCB(s) 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Aside from the noise digital invariably brings to a amplifier, I much prefer modern audio gear in general. I bought this thing knowing it was DOA because it has the modern conveniences like 8.1 CH Surround and BT connectivity and a host of other stuff.

But even aside from that... All the watchdog functionality, and the ability to self-diagnose... modern receivers are getting more and more like ODB-II equipped automobiles every day.

You want to talk RtR...? THAT is where we should be pushing. Force a diagnostic I/O standard on all consumer electronics such that anyone with a PC and a USB cable can at least diag to the "looking for a heartbeat" stage and retrieve basic Trouble Codes so the owner can make an informed decision on whether to spend the dosh on a service center's $100-200-300 minimum service charge just to look at it.

That would be some real progress.

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

   Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible....

Welcome to the modern era of CPU's getting incorporated into audio equipment and good luck getting spare parts for them as well, they are something I hate as well, give a proper good old discrete piece of audio gear any day over this modern crap.

About all you can do to retain your sanity with ones like that is to print each page in A3 and then trace the circuit out that you're looking at in coloured pens or highlighters along its path and then hope and pray that you are then able to locate those points of interest on the PCB(s) 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Aside from the noise digital invariably brings to a amplifier, I much prefer modern audio gear in general. I bought this thing knowing it was DOA because it has the modern conveniences like 8.1 CH Surround and BT connectivity and a host of other stuff.

But even aside from that... All the watchdog functionality, and the ability to self-diagnose... modern receivers are getting more and more like ODB-II equipped automobiles every day.

You want to talk RtR...? THAT is where we should be pushing. Force a diagnostic I/O standard on all consumer electronics such that anyone with a PC and a USB cable can at least diag to the "looking for a heartbeat" stage and retrieve basic Trouble Codes so the owner can make an informed decision on whether to spend the dosh on a service center's $100-200-300 minimum service charge just to look at it.

That would be some real progress.

mnem
 

Oh come on, I never said that old gear was more convenient and had all the modern improvements like 8.1 surround sound,  BT etc, just that older gear was far superior in everyway to work on and their schematics were considerably easier to understand and follow, honestly you knew that I'm sure 

[tggzzz]

That’s easy. Look for the smoke! 

Doesn't show the ones that will fail after reassembly, and smoke the associated resistor.

[mnementh]

   Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible....

Welcome to the modern era of CPU's getting incorporated into audio equipment and good luck getting spare parts for them as well, they are something I hate as well, give a proper good old discrete piece of audio gear any day over this modern crap.

About all you can do to retain your sanity with ones like that is to print each page in A3 and then trace the circuit out that you're looking at in coloured pens or highlighters along its path and then hope and pray that you are then able to locate those points of interest on the PCB(s) 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Aside from the noise digital invariably brings to a amplifier, I much prefer modern audio gear in general. I bought this thing knowing it was DOA because it has the modern conveniences like 8.1 CH Surround and BT connectivity and a host of other stuff.

But even aside from that... All the watchdog functionality, and the ability to self-diagnose... modern receivers are getting more and more like ODB-II equipped automobiles every day.

You want to talk RtR...? THAT is where we should be pushing. Force a diagnostic I/O standard on all consumer electronics such that anyone with a PC and a USB cable can at least diag to the "looking for a heartbeat" stage and retrieve basic Trouble Codes so the owner can make an informed decision on whether to spend the dosh on a service center's $100-200-300 minimum service charge just to look at it.

That would be some real progress.

mnem
 

Oh come on, I never said that old gear was more convenient and had all the modern improvements like 8.1 surround sound,  BT etc, just that older gear was far superior in every way to work on and their schematics were considerably easier to understand and follow, honestly you knew that I'm sure 

The schematics, sure. But I think that has as much to do with being an old dog trying to learn new tricks as it has anything to do with modern schematics. 

Same was true when I was a punk kid learning to read them; solid-state was as easy to follow for me as reading a book, but the old hollow-state guys complained exactly as we're doing now. This generation of engineers, who know nothing of the old ways, no doubt have just as little trouble following these disjointed blobs of gobbledygook as I did back in the day.

I'm young enough to see that I'm getting old & set in my ways... but I can see far enough ahead to know that CE with proper built-in diagnostics really is just around the corner. This unit has a diagnostic mode... just it doesn't do a lot of good unless I can jump-start it enough for that to wake up.

That said... The diagnostics flowchart is pretty abysmal in this particular manual. It assumes you can at least get the fucking thing to turn on the main power relay, and gives you zero guidance as to what might be wrong if you can't.  Fucking thing doesn't even have a STBY LED, FFS. 

mnem
 

[med6753]

I have returned and Lady Cop safely delivered home. The pandemic is definitely over here. Summer time traffic is murder. The Staten Island Expressway isn't. 45 minutes just to go 5 miles to get off that damn island. Normally the trip takes me just under 2 hours one way. To get back here this evening took me over 3 hours. I'm thankful that the CR-V has good A/C because today's temp is 33 C. 

Anyway, one comment about electrical safety. In IBM Final Systems Test and Unit Test rings, watches, loose jewelry, etc have always been verboten and I carry that habit to my own bench. And when I'm probing around vacuum tube circuits I wear rubber gloves along with the free hand behind my back. 

[vk6zgo]

I was in the last couple of years of primary school in 1971 so had to learn both systems Even as kids we realised that there was a huge increase in the cost of everyday items and a lot of confusion. I was living in Northern Ireland and 5 or 6 years later I was working part time in the "amusements" industry repairing the new electronic video machines etc. The Irish Punt was very devalued compared to the pound and the industry had terrible trouble with people using the dimensionally identical southern Irish coins in machines. At one point we shut all the automatic change machines because people were crosing the border with bags of 50p (1/2 Punt) coins feeding the machines, taking the 10p sterling coins back and exchanging them for Punts.   

I got caught out returning from Ireland on the British Rail ferry in 1971, when I bought a cuppa onboard & got some Irish coins in my change.
Not noticing, I tucked them away in my wallet.

On arriving back in the UK, I had to pay for a train ticket, so I dug around in my somewhat diminished cash & presented the, (to my eye), correct amount.

The reaction was "You can't do that there 'ere," as the ticket bloke brandished the offending Irish coin.

Tired & irritated, I replied "Take that up with your mob on the ferry----they gave it to me in my change!"
Rather than argue with a clearly "aggro" Aussie, he conceded the point.

English businesses even looked "fish eyed" at Bank of Scotland notes, despite those being legal tender anywhere in the UK.

[vk6zgo]

Keithley:

Yours truly (attached).

It's an input selector for the local outdoor dance hall.

Very Telecom Aust "in house" style from the 1980s.

[med6753]

I was in the last couple of years of primary school in 1971 so had to learn both systems Even as kids we realised that there was a huge increase in the cost of everyday items and a lot of confusion. I was living in Northern Ireland and 5 or 6 years later I was working part time in the "amusements" industry repairing the new electronic video machines etc. The Irish Punt was very devalued compared to the pound and the industry had terrible trouble with people using the dimensionally identical southern Irish coins in machines. At one point we shut all the automatic change machines because people were crosing the border with bags of 50p (1/2 Punt) coins feeding the machines, taking the 10p sterling coins back and exchanging them for Punts.   

I got caught out returning from Ireland on the British Rail ferry in 1971, when I bought a cuppa onboard & got some Irish coins in my change.
Not noticing, I tucked them away in my wallet.

On arriving back in the UK, I had to pay for a train ticket, so I dug around in my somewhat diminished cash & presented the, (to my eye), correct amount.

The reaction was "You can't do that there 'ere," as the ticket bloke brandished the offending Irish coin.

Tired & irritated, I replied "Take that up with your mob on the ferry----they gave it to me in my change!"
Rather than argue with a clearly "aggro" Aussie, he conceded the point.

English businesses even looked "fish eyed" at Bank of Scotland notes, despite those being legal tender anywhere in the UK.

On my trip to UK (Scotland) in 2001 I found out real quick that no one would accept USD (not surprising) but they wouldn't accept AMEX traveler's checks either. I really didn't want to use my CC but had no choice. And I was able to get the Queen's cash at an ATM.

But what really struck me odd was the automated pay for overnight parking. The machine would take CC and cash but it was very specific that one type of bank note it would NOT accept. I don't recall what that bank note was but supposedly it was legal tender.     

[vk6zgo]

Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible. This shit makes my brain hurt; especially when you're trying to trace something like a STBY Vcc that goes through what would normally be 2 or 3 diagrams, but now each diagram is broken up across 2-4 pages in SxS or quadrant format...

mnem
I think I'm going to go do something a little less like just    myself... maybe I'll design something in Frustion360.

Ahh a Japanese “special”.

Have some Yaesu to make you feel better 

I quite like Yaesu schematics----- finding the physical bits they relate to is something else!
Good to see they are still carrying on their "love affair" with dual gate Mosfets.

[vk6zgo]

On my trip to UK (Scotland) in 2001 I found out real quick that no one would accept USD (not surprising) but they wouldn't accept AMEX traveler's checks either. I really didn't want to use my CC but had no choice. And I was able to get the Queen's cash at an ATM.

But what really struck me odd was the automated pay for overnight parking. The machine would take CC and cash but it was very specific that one type of bank note it would NOT accept. I don't recall what that bank note was but supposedly it was legal tender.

There used to be two types of Scottish notes, "Bank of Scotland" & "Clydesdale Bank", & the English "went funny" at the sight of either one!
It looks like that machine is programmed with a similar bias.

[med6753]

On my trip to UK (Scotland) in 2001 I found out real quick that no one would accept USD (not surprising) but they wouldn't accept AMEX traveler's checks either. I really didn't want to use my CC but had no choice. And I was able to get the Queen's cash at an ATM.

But what really struck me odd was the automated pay for overnight parking. The machine would take CC and cash but it was very specific that one type of bank note it would NOT accept. I don't recall what that bank note was but supposedly it was legal tender.

There used to be two types of Scottish notes, "Bank of Scotland" & "Clydesdale Bank", & the English "went funny" at the sight of either one!
It looks like that machine is programmed with a similar bias.

Maybe. But note that the parking garage was in Edinburgh. 

[Specmaster]

   Oi... I am thankful that the SM actually has schizzmatics... but gawd, they're fekkin' 'orrible....

Welcome to the modern era of CPU's getting incorporated into audio equipment and good luck getting spare parts for them as well, they are something I hate as well, give a proper good old discrete piece of audio gear any day over this modern crap.

About all you can do to retain your sanity with ones like that is to print each page in A3 and then trace the circuit out that you're looking at in coloured pens or highlighters along its path and then hope and pray that you are then able to locate those points of interest on the PCB(s) 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Aside from the noise digital invariably brings to a amplifier, I much prefer modern audio gear in general. I bought this thing knowing it was DOA because it has the modern conveniences like 8.1 CH Surround and BT connectivity and a host of other stuff.

But even aside from that... All the watchdog functionality, and the ability to self-diagnose... modern receivers are getting more and more like ODB-II equipped automobiles every day.

You want to talk RtR...? THAT is where we should be pushing. Force a diagnostic I/O standard on all consumer electronics such that anyone with a PC and a USB cable can at least diag to the "looking for a heartbeat" stage and retrieve basic Trouble Codes so the owner can make an informed decision on whether to spend the dosh on a service center's $100-200-300 minimum service charge just to look at it.

That would be some real progress.

mnem
 

Oh come on, I never said that old gear was more convenient and had all the modern improvements like 8.1 surround sound,  BT etc, just that older gear was far superior in every way to work on and their schematics were considerably easier to understand and follow, honestly you knew that I'm sure 

The schematics, sure. But I think that has as much to do with being an old dog trying to learn new tricks as it has anything to do with modern schematics. 

Same was true when I was a punk kid learning to read them; solid-state was as easy to follow for me as reading a book, but the old hollow-state guys complained exactly as we're doing now. This generation of engineers, who know nothing of the old ways, no doubt have just as little trouble following these disjointed blobs of gobbledygook as I did back in the day.

I'm young enough to see that I'm getting old & set in my ways... but I can see far enough ahead to know that CE with proper built-in diagnostics really is just around the corner. This unit has a diagnostic mode... just it doesn't do a lot of good unless I can jump-start it enough for that to wake up.

That said... The diagnostics flowchart is pretty abysmal in this particular manual. It assumes you can at least get the fucking thing to turn on the main power relay, and gives you zero guidance as to what might be wrong if you can't.  Fucking thing doesn't even have a STBY LED, FFS. 

mnem
 

That’s the same as that Casio keyboard, but I can’t even find schematics for that thing, so you have the advantage on yours.

[Specmaster]

I have returned and Lady Cop safely delivered home. The pandemic is definitely over here. Summer time traffic is murder. The Staten Island Expressway isn't. 45 minutes just to go 5 miles to get off that damn island. Normally the trip takes me just under 2 hours one way. To get back here this evening took me over 3 hours. I'm thankful that the CR-V has good A/C because today's temp is 33 C. 

Anyway, one comment about electrical safety. In IBM Final Systems Test and Unit Test rings, watches, loose jewelry, etc have always been verboten and I carry that habit to my own bench. And when I'm probing around vacuum tube circuits I wear rubber gloves along with the free hand behind my back. 

Hmm, the pandemic is only over IMHO over there because people don’t believe that it exists keep your ears and eyes open because it’s going to come about bite peoples arses big time very quickly.

Take precautions still and be prepared.

[Saskia]

The I hate people shirt should help Papa Smurf to keep people at distance

[Cerebus]

English businesses even looked "fish eyed" at Bank of Scotland notes, despite those being legal tender anywhere in the UK.

They're not "legal tender" anywhere in the UK, not even in Scotland! It's an oft misunderstood term, and means nothing in normal everyday retail commerce; retailers are entitled to be entirely arbitrary in what forms of payment they will accept. 

Legal tender means that if it is offered in settlement of a existing debt one must accept it in settlement of that debt (strictly speaking it means they can't sue you for non-payment if you have offered legal tender by paying into court but they won't accept it). Legal tender status is reserved for Bank of England notes and coins from the Royal Mint in England and Wales, and only Royal Mint coins in Scotland and Northern Ireland.  The whole legal tender thing is a bit of a historical oddity nowadays, if you found yourself in the position where you need to "pay into court" you'd just use a bank transfer or a cheque if you were feeling old fashioned.

In practice, Scottish notes are generally exchangeable in the UK, and a UK bank will accept them for deposit or exchange without demure. That may change if Nicola Sturgeon gets her way over Scottish independence.

[med6753]

I have returned and Lady Cop safely delivered home. The pandemic is definitely over here. Summer time traffic is murder. The Staten Island Expressway isn't. 45 minutes just to go 5 miles to get off that damn island. Normally the trip takes me just under 2 hours one way. To get back here this evening took me over 3 hours. I'm thankful that the CR-V has good A/C because today's temp is 33 C. 

Anyway, one comment about electrical safety. In IBM Final Systems Test and Unit Test rings, watches, loose jewelry, etc have always been verboten and I carry that habit to my own bench. And when I'm probing around vacuum tube circuits I wear rubber gloves along with the free hand behind my back. 

Hmm, the pandemic is only over IMHO over there because people don’t believe that it exists keep your ears and eyes open because it’s going to come about bite peoples arses big time very quickly.

Take precautions still and be prepared.

You are probably correct and since I hate most people....and as Saskia notes......I stay away, keep windows closed (A/C), and I still wear a mask most times when I do have to be out and about.