Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

No idea how that worked. Before my time. All I know is that it was a shit show like your inches and feet 

[nfmax]

And that tired old trope about profit and war is just not true. Newton wasn't thinking about war or profit when he wrote Principia, nor was Darwin when he wrote On the Origin of Species etc etc.

I wonder what Newton was thinking about when he accepted the position of Warden of the Royal Mint, masterminded the re-issue of the English currency, and tracked down, prosecuted & eventually hanged the counterfeiter who had the temerity to try and mess with him while he was doing it?

[Robert763]

Funnily enough, yesterday, before the new / old discussion on here I did an idle list of what it would cost to replace my "basic" TE (mostly HP, Fluke etc) with new HP or Siglent. So for a 350MHz 4ch DSO, 2 Ch MSO, couple of DMM's Coulpe of bench supplies, Waveform generator, 3GHz ish SA, signal generator LCR meter. Differences were Keysight had a RF power meter and Universal counter while Siglent had a 1,3G SA/VNA. Neiter of these lists cover my full "in the workshop and use it" capability, big item missing is an analog Tx/Rx radio test set, but they are not a list item new.

The New Keysight cost was just over £40,000 
Siglent came to just over £21,700.

My total payout for the used kit is less than £2000 but in reality the cost was much less. For example buying a lot that included two items for under £100 keeping one (+other bits in the lot) and selling the other for over £500.
There is no way I would spend £20-40,000 on new kit just to get the warranty. The only possible reason would be to save space, but this is the TEA thread right?
 

[bd139]

That’s pretty cheap if you’re a business which is their market. You’re an exceptional case having that stuff at home.

My net expenditure is negative at the moment. That’s the trick to run your stuff at home 

Non TE shit today. Lawn mowing time. Was hoping to have got rid of it before I had to do it 

[vk6zgo]

and what the hell is a schilling?  or a crown?  or a half crown?  do you have a key for those?

edit (maybe it is time for me to stop watching old sherlock holmes movies with basil raithbone?)

In Oz talk, a shilling (not a "schilling" that's different) equates to a 10c, a crown to 50c, & logically enough, a half crown equates to 25c.

Australia, when we went decimal in 1966, opted to make the 10 shilling note become the $A, hence 1 shilling was 10c, 6 pence (half a shilling), became 5c, & so on.
We only had 1c, 2c, & 50c coins which weren't compatible with the old ones.

Pennies & halfpennies disappeared from circulation, the others stayed around for quite a while, but not as long as the 10 shilling note, £1(the latter became a $2 note), £5 ( became a $10 note), £10 (became a $20 note).

Of course, in the past, there were things like Sovereigns (coins worth £1), Guineas worth 21 shillings (these,had not been printed (coined?) in living memory, but lived on as "a bit of a scam", particularly amongst sellers of furniture), & last, & definitely least, the "farthing" which was a quarter of a penny.(not used in Oz in my lifetime).

The Brits took the other tack when they decimalised kept the £, & hence had to produce a larger number of new coins from "day one".

[Specmaster]

Funnily enough, yesterday, before the new / old discussion on here I did an idle list of what it would cost to replace my "basic" TE (mostly HP, Fluke etc) with new HP or Siglent. So for a 350MHz 4ch DSO, 2 Ch MSO, couple of DMM's Coulpe of bench supplies, Waveform generator, 3GHz ish SA, signal generator LCR meter. Differences were Keysight had a RF power meter and Universal counter while Siglent had a 1,3G SA/VNA. Neiter of these lists cover my full "in the workshop and use it" capability, big item missing is an analog Tx/Rx radio test set, but they are not a list item new.

The New Keysight cost was just over £40,000 
Siglent came to just over £21,700.

My total payout for the used kit is less than £2000 but in reality the cost was much less. For example buying a lot that included two items for under £100 keeping one (+other bits in the lot) and selling the other for over £500.
There is no way I would spend £20-40,000 on new kit just to get the warranty. The only possible reason would be to save space, but this is the TEA thread right?
 

Quite right and not only that, but how many hobbyists could afford the £21,700 let alone the £40,000. All fine if that is your business and its making money for you. Seeing as this the TEA thread, isn't one of the aims of it to keep the older gear out of landfill, and not just stock pile it in every nook and cranny we can find, but to repair if required and then use it to further the cause?

[Cerebus]

and what the hell is a schilling?  or a crown?  or a half crown?  do you have a key for those?

edit (maybe it is time for me to stop watching old sherlock holmes movies with basil raithbone?)

You mean shilling, schillings are the old Austrian currency.

One pound (£) = 20 shillings (s) = 240 pennies. One shilling = 12 pennies (d, from the the latin denarii). One guinea = one pound and one shilling (customary pricing for luxury goods or the fees of the professional classes but there were physical 1 guinea gold coins if you go back far enough).

Coins:
Copper or brass:
    Farthing  1/4d
    Halfpenny (ha'penny) 1/2d
    Penny 1d
    Threepenny piece (Thrup'ny bit) 3d (really old ones were silver or part silver, nickel-brass introduced in 1937)
Silver (for some value of 'silver'):
    Sixpence (Tanner) 6d
    Shilling 1s or 1/-
    Florin 2s or 2/-
    Half-crown 2s 6d or 2/6
    Crown 5s or 5/- (wartime slang "a dollar". Not really used in circulation after WWII although commemorative coins were struck that were still legal tender)

Notes:
10 shillings (ten bob note)
1 pound note (a quid)
5 pound note (a fiver)
10 pound note (a tenner)
20 pound note (slang names very local, not universally used)
50 pound note (slang names very local, not universally used)

There was, in fact still is, a gold coin with a face value of £1, the sovereign, but the intrinsic value has exceeded the face value for many, many years.

Slang denominations:
£25 - a pony
£500 -  a monkey
£1000 - a grand

Decimalisation happened in 1971, pounds stayed the same, 2.4 pennies became 1 new penny with 100 new pennies to the pound.New coins were issued in denominations of 1/2, 1, 2, 5, 10 and 50 pence. The old sixpence, shilling, florin and half crown were left in circulation and gradually withdrawn, treated as having their nominal decimal coinage values (6d -> 2 1/2 p, 1s -> 5p and so on). For many years coins still bore the imprint "new pence" but this was subsequently dropped and they all just now say "penny" or "pence".

The Republic of Ireland (Eire) also decimalised on the very same day having traditionally used the same denominations of currency as the UK but with the Punt substituting for the Pound.

[tautech]

........while Siglent had a 1,3G SA/VNA.

Get the cheaper SSA3021X Plus instead and turn it into a SVA1032X. 

[Robert763]

I was in the last couple of years of primary school in 1971 so had to learn both systems Even as kids we realised that there was a huge increase in the cost of everyday items and a lot of confusion. I was living in Northern Ireland and 5 or 6 years later I was working part time in the "amusements" industry repairing the new electronic video machines etc. The Irish Punt was very devalued compared to the pound and the industry had terrible trouble with people using the dimensionally identical southern Irish coins in machines. At one point we shut all the automatic change machines because people were crosing the border with bags of 50p (1/2 Punt) coins feeding the machines, taking the 10p sterling coins back and exchanging them for Punts.   

[Robert763]

........while Siglent had a 1,3G SA/VNA.

Get the cheaper SSA3021X Plus instead and turn it into a SVA1032X. 

No warranty with that 

[BU508A]

That’s pretty cheap if you’re a business which is their market. You’re an exceptional case having that stuff at home.

My net expenditure is negative at the moment. That’s the trick to run your stuff at home 

Non TE shit today. Lawn mowing time. Was hoping to have got rid of it before I had to do it 

Lawn mowing here, too. And cleaning some fruits and berries (apricot, gooseberry, blackberry and blackcurrant) for my fruit-in-rum pot.
Waiting now for cherries, mirabelle plum and some blueberries. Strawberries and pineapple have been already added to the pot (was the starting fill).

Later I'll do a cherry cake (Kirschplotzer), the first one in 2021. :-) The cherries I got aren't completely ripe yet, so the taste isn't overwhelming. 
Maybe next week or the week after next.

And there is this meter on my bench, waiting for its teardown and taking pictures.
And I got an invitation to Gather town from some friends of mine for a games evening.

Not sure, if I'll make it to discord but I'll try. If you'll hear me snoring, you'll know why. 

[nixiefreqq]

the freqq carries this coin at all times.

ya' never know when you will stumble into a rip in space time and land in the 3rd augustan legion.

am told that it will buy you a pretty good time in the local establishments. 

swmbo has been instructed to bury it with me.

[Cerebus]

I was in the last couple of years of primary school in 1971 so had to learn both systems Even as kids we realised that there was a huge increase in the cost of everyday items and a lot of confusion. I was living in Northern Ireland and 5 or 6 years later I was working part time in the "amusements" industry repairing the new electronic video machines etc. The Irish Punt was very devalued compared to the pound and the industry had terrible trouble with people using the dimensionally identical southern Irish coins in machines. At one point we shut all the automatic change machines because people were crosing the border with bags of 50p (1/2 Punt) coins feeding the machines, taking the 10p sterling coins back and exchanging them for Punts.   

In the mid-eighties I was working for a company (RCC) doing IT support. We had a factory in Warrenpoint, which is just north of the border between Eire and NI. The factory had a lot of customers south of the border and consequently the branch accounting was dual currency, Pounds and Punts. My main contact there was, I kid you not, one Paddy Rafferty - which is only one step away from the archetypical 'joke' Oirish name of Paddy Murphy. Paddy had a thick Northern Irish accent which I generally had no problems with, except when we were trying to track down dual currency problems - you try differentiating between "pound" and "punt" in a thick NI accent over an indifferent telephone line.

Paddy was great lad. He was catholic, had 12 kids, and felt that I hadn't had a proper night out if I could still stand without assistance at the end of it. Any visit from me (as the only Brit from head office who seemed not to be in permanent fear or being bombed or shot in the badlands and so would actually visit) seemed to be an excuse for Paddy to raid the expenses account and take me and half his department out on the lash. My only expenses on any trip to Warrenpoint would be between my front door and Heathrow airport; from the plane landing at Belfast to taking off on the way back I had Paddy and his company wallet with me and couldn't pay for anything no matter how hard I tried.

[med6753]

Just dropping in to say "Hi"    Definitely won't be on Discord later.

Oh...and warranty? Don't need no stinkin' warranty. 

[bd139]

Slacker 

Wait until she’s passed out in the middle of some terrible British TV 

[mansaxel]

Any rural pub with a distinct lack of cars outside of it should be avoided as a rule.

I've stayed in one that fits that spec to the point, the Railway Inn in Culham. It was a nice summer evening. We came on the DMU from Didcot, checked in, had dinner and a couple beers being ogled by the inbred locals, and then slept pretty well in the family room (a converted shed, but OK.) until breakfast was served and we went back on the DMU to Didcot for a full day in, under, along and after GWR steam engines. We also put out a small fire on the line.

10/10 would do again.

[BU508A]

the freqq carries this coin at all times.

ya' never know when you will stumble into a rip in space time and land in the 3rd augustan legion.

am told that it will buy you a pretty good time in the local establishments. 

swmbo has been instructed to bury it with me.

Smart man. You can pay the ferryman then. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx

[tggzzz]

and what the hell is a schilling?  or a crown?  or a half crown?  do you have a key for those?

edit (maybe it is time for me to stop watching old sherlock holmes movies with basil raithbone?)

12d in 1s, 20s in 1£ (s=shilling, d=denari (i.e. penny)). So "five pounds thirteen and six" was written as £5/13/6.  That is one reason we didn't stop with the 10* multiplication table, but went up to 12*.

Professional fees were stated in guineas, i.e. 21s, rather than pounds - a sneaky way if increasing their income by 5%

Coins: 1/4d, 1/2d. 1d. 3d, 6d, 1s, 2s, 2.5s (half crown). Notes: 10s, £1, £5, £10, £20, £50.

The change was coming in when I decided to price up how much I could get for my train set. I was very glad I experimented with the new-fangled decimal currency.

OTOH, I still miss finding old coins in my change; the oldest was a 1863 1d.

[med6753]

Slacker 

Wait until she’s passed out in the middle of some terrible British TV 

She did that last night after supper but I gave her a pass because she worked all day then 2 hour train ride up here. But this morning she's earning her keep in the kitchen whipping up some corn bread. 

[Cerebus]

[Sings]

"Don't pay the ferry man,
Don't even fix a price,
Don't pay the ferry man,
Til he gets you to the other side."

[tggzzz]

There was, in fact still is, a gold coin with a face value of £1, the sovereign, but the intrinsic value has exceeded the face value for many, many years.

There's also a £100 coin, the Britannia, available in gold, silver and platinum. I have several, since there cannot be any CGTax on their appreciation

[Cerebus]

There was, in fact still is, a gold coin with a face value of £1, the sovereign, but the intrinsic value has exceeded the face value for many, many years.

There's also a £100 coin, the Britannia, available in gold, silver and platinum. I have several, since there cannot be any CGTax on their appreciation

They are however a newfangled invention (1987-) existing purely for the bullion coin market. Unlike guineas and sovereigns, no one has actually gone out with them in their pocket/purse with the intention of using them in normal everyday commerce.

[nixiefreqq]

started out following along on brit coinage.

but am now totally feckin' lost. (guinea's???  really???)

am just going to be satisfied with my marcus aurelius antoninus sestertius.

according to the interweb it would purchase 2 and one half asses.

that is good enough for me.

[mnementh]

The whole idea of disposable electronics is anathema to me, I absolutely despise the profit-chasing that has led us here.

It’s not really profit chasing. Things got smaller, faster, no longer elementally lumped and considerably more complicated. That brings a whole new world of pain chasing down parts and doing reliable repairs to the point it’s not sensible to attempt to do it. Sure replace modules but that’s even becoming difficult with the level of integration these days.

The only things that really kill me are when they stop making spare parts for devices, shut service points down and abandon the device software that is full of holes. Android vendors I’m looking at you.

I prefer the idea they exposed in The Expanse. Recycle everything back to atoms. Dead bodies, smartphones, you name it. Straight in the recycler.

Also to point out, only profit and war drive progress. I’d rather it was profit.

Ummm yeah. That was the basis of the entire economy of Star Trek, you know. The transtator (the core of all Federation "technology") supposedly changed the state of matter to energy and vice-versa. Ideally, as you suggest, everything was recycled on a subatomic level. While I still tend to believe there's no way it could be more efficient to do this than to say... run a load of dishes through the dishwasher, nonetheless this was supposedly the case.

As you might imagine, this would tend to flip the entire nature of our burning-shit-for-energy economy on its ear; there's a reason TPTB have been deliberately trying to kill all such "positive-message" forward-looking programming for the last 3 decades... or to paint it as just a facade over the existing rampant human greed.

If you take away hope that we will ever evolve past these basest selfish motivations, then we have no drive to pursue and force that forward-thinking future to happen. You murder idealism and altruism in the cradle. Then all you have to do is find more and more granular means of milking each and every cash cow for every drop that can be squeezed from them before grinding them up into Soylent WTF-ever.

110% Agree on the "repairability of micro-technology" issue however. If you made an iPwn of discrete, human-repairable parts, it would cost 1000x as much and fill a briefcase. You simply cannot make such devices without the level of integration being used today; so then your choice boils down to "Which manufacturer supports the software best/longest".

mnem
 

[tggzzz]

but am now totally feckin' lost. (guinea's???  really???)
am just going to be satisfied with my marcus aurelius antoninus sestertius.
according to the interweb it would purchase 2 and one half asses.

Yes, really

I suppose I ought to take pictures of the "weights and measures" appendix to my 1910 "Scientific American Cyclopedia of Formulas".
Chapter III is "Alloys and Amalgams",
Chapter XIV is "Ice Cream Confectionary and Chewing Gum"
Chapter XV is "Insecticides and Exterminaton of Vermin"
Chapter XXIII is "Soap and Candles"

Yes, that dates from a time when you made what you needed, e.g. instructions for building a car started with instructions for how to build the tools to build a car. Bring on the apocalypse; I'll be the one-eyed king of knowledge