Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

[bd139]

I’d keep the money, sell the TDS210 and buy a Siglent 

[AVGresponding]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

The 99B is superior to the 97 in almost every way, however the the sampling rates you mention are somewhat incorrect.

Reading from the manual for mine, it says 5 GS/s for repetitive signals (ET), and 25 MS/s for real time. May be worth pointing out the Tek THS720A does 500MS/s real time, and iirc that's per channel...

If you're just using it for audio work I guess it's capable enough.

[Robert763]

It's better than they go for on ebay, but still a bit much. I allways used to vist them and take cash 

[Robert763]

 Hmm 6kV one 4mm binding posts 
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284346900816
This thing was almost certainly made for use in schools to run maltese cross tubes and the like. My school had one like it.
 

[bd139]

For audio I’d want a scope with a decent FFT and memory depth these days. It’s impossible to measure distortion without those and that’s really the ideal metric of an audio system as well as noise figure.

[mnementh]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

The 99B is superior to the 97 in almost every way, however the the sampling rates you mention are somewhat incorrect.

Reading from the manual for mine, it says 5 GS/s for repetitive signals (ET), and 25 MS/s for real time. May be worth pointing out the Tek THS720A does 500MS/s real time, and iirc that's per channel...

If you're just using it for audio work I guess it's capable enough.

In all honesty... for that kind of money, I'd probably put a small pure-sine inverter (USD$50-80 on Amazon) in a toolbox with some cheap SLA batteries (well, no, I'd use some of my many LiPos, but still) to power the TDS210 and have something useful for a lot more than mobile troubleshooting once or twice a moon...

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

I’d keep the money, sell the TDS210 and buy a Siglent 

Yeah TBH that is an option, but really I was thinking along the lines of it being fully portable and isolated from the mains, so I could poke around without any worries on mains powered equipment. I still have that other little GW mains scope and the Fluke PM3390B so a Siglent would be overlapping on those? Its worth considering though.

[mnementh]

Hmm 6kV one 4mm binding posts 
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284346900816
This thing was almost certainly made for use in schools to run maltese cross tubes and the like. My school had one like it.

mnem
 

[factory]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

I got a similar reply, only the one 97 available and not at the advertised from price.
Also they don't think they have the HP item listed, that I asked about either, all a bit disappointing. 

Guess I'm back to searching ePay for something cheaper to add to my collection, it wasn't needed urgently anyway.

David

[bd139]

I’d keep the money, sell the TDS210 and buy a Siglent 

Yeah TBH that is an option, but really I was thinking along the lines of it being fully portable and isolated from the mains, so I could poke around without any worries on mains powered equipment. I still have that other little GW mains scope and the Fluke PM3390B so a Siglent would be overlapping on those? Its worth considering though.

Well it’s all DC and galvanically isolated on the secondary on most audio stuff so I wouldn’t sweat that. Primary side debugging on linear supplies can be done with a DMM. If it’s an SMPS it should be via isolation transformer anyway 

The compromises of old equipment and portability don’t add up in my eyes. I mean sure buy one if you want it - that’s why we’re here 

[Cerebus]

Hmm 6kV one 4mm binding posts 
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284346900816
This thing was almost certainly made for use in schools to run maltese cross tubes and the like. My scholl had one like it.

Your Scholl?

[Robert763]

Still bored with decorating and buying odd TE while waiting for filler to dry 

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PKS-Digiplan-Differential-Counter-/184854925033
make an off and got it for £15 inc postage. Knowing what Digiplan did and looking at the controls, apart from normal low frequency counter/timer functions it was intended to test quadrature position encoders.
Internal pics when it arrives but probably discrete CMOS counters and a couple of ICM7211 4 digit LCD drivers. shame it's an 8 digit as I've got a nuclear scaler counter with a bleeding 6 digit LCD.

[Robert763]

Hmm 6kV one 4mm binding posts 
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284346900816
This thing was almost certainly made for use in schools to run maltese cross tubes and the like. My school had one like it.

Your Scholl?

OK I can't type. I blame my mental and physical disabilities.

[Specmaster]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

I got a similar reply, only the one 97 available and not at the advertised from price.
Also they don't think they have the HP item listed, that I asked about either, all a bit disappointing. 

Guess I'm back to searching ePay for something cheaper to add to my collection, it wasn't needed urgently anyway.

David

Yeah, I guess I'm kind of leaning the same way myself. It just sort of seems as if the headline figure of £75 lures people in, and then you get quoted these inflated prices, it just sort of shouts out that here is a punter, lets squeeze him as much as we can. Couple that with the complete lack of any photographic reassurance of what you're about to pay for and receive are the same thing. I don't like buying anything blind like this, especially when you're being asked for 66.66% more than the advertised price, makes my alarm bells ring very loudly 

It was just the sheer portability of it that attracted me to and that Casio keyboard highlighted the need for some equipment that could be used away from the bench at times and the fact that it could be powered by standard batteries and used either a scope and or a multimeter added to the appeal.

[AVGresponding]

For audio I’d want a scope with a decent FFT and memory depth these days. It’s impossible to measure distortion without those and that’s really the ideal metric of an audio system as well as noise figure.

For design and development work, yes. For troubleshooting? Seems a bit unnecessary to me, but as ever YMMV.

Also, my Keithley 2015 will measure distortion... though I'll grant you it's a bit fiddly compared with a dedicated SA, though likely at least as accurate for any given spot frequency.


As for the earth/ground thing, it's still better imo to be isolated for this particular use case. As soon as you introduce an earth ground, you increase your risk of tzzzzt.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

I got a similar reply, only the one 97 available and not at the advertised from price.
Also they don't think they have the HP item listed, that I asked about either, all a bit disappointing. 

Guess I'm back to searching ePay for something cheaper to add to my collection, it wasn't needed urgently anyway.

David

Yeah, I guess I'm kind of leaning the same way myself. It just sort of seems as if the headline figure of £75 lures people in, and then you get quoted these inflated prices, it just sort of shouts out that here is a punter, lets squeeze him as much as we can. Couple that with the complete lack of any photographic reassurance of what you're about to pay for and receive are the same thing. I don't like buying anything blind like this, especially when you're being asked for 66.66% more than the advertised price, makes my alarm bells ring very loudly 

It was just the sheer portability of it that attracted me to and that Casio keyboard highlighted the need for some equipment that could be used away from the bench at times and the fact that it could be powered by standard batteries and used either a scope and or a multimeter added to the appeal.

I would definitely not follow BD's taunt nor would I consider the battery cart an viable option.
My supernumerary THM560 will not pass as a proper scope, even if I had a battery holder for it. (the one I have is in service with the THM565). What I saw over here is a THS720 which is coming again at 333.-€ and a Fluke 123 at 290.- without a bid. It is somewhat scarce. But as such portables go, they are less in the way and might get kept because they are not in the way. If you can afford to wait, you might catch something nicer. OTOH, I did not find £125 for a working 97 soo deplorable.

[Neomys Sapiens]

   I'm firmly at the  Williams / Pease end of the spectrum, or maybe off the scale 

What I find amusing is the Panavise... like there's anywhere you could actually stick that suction cup base to and use it... 

mnem
*wonders idly if he would notice the absence of those delicious Lindström side cutters-es...*

An idle thought indeed, as any sane functional member of this group would do a full toolcount if only as much as a dragons' shadow was seen in the larger area of residence.

[nixiefreqq]

Update on my quest to acquire a Fluke handheld scope meter to help in debugging audio equipment, I got a reply this afternoon from Stewarts of Reading and this is what it said "We currently have just one Fluke 97 50MHz in stock. It would come with a mains PSU, and probably in a hard plastic case and with any odd accessories I can find. Cost: £125 plus carriage, plus VAT."

So a question for you good folks, do you think that is reasonable, bearing in mind that their listing says from £75 for a Fluke 97? I have no way of knowing what its current condition is other than I take it is working. I may or may not get a hard case with it and any other accessories that they can find, all for the £125 plus VAT and carriage.

Their list also says that they have the Fluke 99B 100MHz with 25G S/S as opposed to 25M S/S with the 97, starting from £125 plus?

Thoughts?

I got a similar reply, only the one 97 available and not at the advertised from price.
Also they don't think they have the HP item listed, that I asked about either, all a bit disappointing. 

Guess I'm back to searching ePay for something cheaper to add to my collection, it wasn't needed urgently anyway.

David

Yeah, I guess I'm kind of leaning the same way myself. It just sort of seems as if the headline figure of £75 lures people in, and then you get quoted these inflated prices, it just sort of shouts out that here is a punter, lets squeeze him as much as we can. Couple that with the complete lack of any photographic reassurance of what you're about to pay for and receive are the same thing. I don't like buying anything blind like this, especially when you're being asked for 66.66% more than the advertised price, makes my alarm bells ring very loudly 

It was just the sheer portability of it that attracted me to and that Casio keyboard highlighted the need for some equipment that could be used away from the bench at times and the fact that it could be powered by standard batteries and used either a scope and or a multimeter added to the appeal.

honestly........it is my least favorite scope AND my least favorite meter.

the UI is kind of annoying.  it also pisses me off that the banana jacks on the top only work for the ohmmeter, diode test, and DC mV modes.  to measure all other AC/DC voltages you use the channel A bnc connector and a probe just as in scope mode. (and you forget that every time you turn it on).

BUT having said that.  it stays around because when you need floating measurements in scope mode you pop in some NIMH batteries (AA's slipped inside some 3/4" PVC pipe) and you are off to the races with no worries.

would not pay more than 100 bucks for one though.  (and i bought it new in about 1992 for almost 2 grand)


edit  oh yeah.   the electroluminicent backlight is probably dead in yours.  but you can buy replacement sheets and replace them pretty cheap and easy.

[Neomys Sapiens]

A slow week in aquisitions so far, with only a Siemens wiring tester and two imperial Belzer spanners coming in. And some stuff that is not for me. But fingers crossed, I made a move on a sourcemeter.

[tautech]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

[bd139]

For audio I’d want a scope with a decent FFT and memory depth these days. It’s impossible to measure distortion without those and that’s really the ideal metric of an audio system as well as noise figure.

For design and development work, yes. For troubleshooting? Seems a bit unnecessary to me, but as ever YMMV.

Also, my Keithley 2015 will measure distortion... though I'll grant you it's a bit fiddly compared with a dedicated SA, though likely at least as accurate for any given spot frequency.


As for the earth/ground thing, it's still better imo to be isolated for this particular use case. As soon as you introduce an earth ground, you increase your risk of tzzzzt.

For troubleshooting yes it is probably required if you are working with anything that requires some replacement parts. A fine example is the old discrete transistor amps. Those things tend to have fairly intolerant designs in both the feedback and bias networks so for decent performance, experimentation is required to get the best stage linearity. Typically adjusting the Vbe multipliers etc. And measuring distortion with an FFT visually is a pretty damn lazy way of doing it. Sure the 2015 does it but it’s easier with a scope and it shows the entire harmonic series visually so you can stick a signal in, load on output and poke the scope across it. Job done.

On isolation that’s only really required in the consumer space is if you’re working with SMPS primary side. I can’t even think of a single time I’ve had to worry about this. I fixed three SMPS primary side explosions (one Sony, one tek 2235, one Cisco) with a DMM. On secondary half every bit of audio kit I’ve seen is either entirely floating or earth referenced at the amp anyway.

The worst thing is old stuff that takes batteries is horrible. I hate it. Give me something that plugs in any day 

[bd139]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

Some good points in here.

Floating kit is just a different way to creatively kill yourself by touching a different wrong bit. My father’s old Philips analogue multimeter was a fine example. Measured mains fine, but don’t touch it while it was probing anything. Fzzt.

Might be better to become part of the circuit and an RCD pops versus being across a floating secondary and no residual leakage. On the bench that is.

Nothing is a substitute for thinking the problem through first.

[Saskia]

Back from the abyss ...
Outta da hospital. Not yet completely healed, boss said to take it easy. Potentially on discord tomorrow now about to catch up on zzzzzs.

Might look for some red chestnut hair dye later.

[bd139]

Back from the abyss ...
Outta da hospital. Not yet completely healed, boss said to take it easy. Potentially on discord tomorrow now about to catch up on zzzzzs.

Good news then. Glad to hear it’s going in at least the right direction