Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

Changing topic quickly, but still off topic.

I have just given Virgin Media the heave-ho with regard to TV programme provider to the specmaster household. I have had a aerial installed and will be using freeview in the future and saving around £80 a month. That being said, with their Tivo boxes you can effectively pause live TV if needed to answer the phone etc and them continue watching from the point you paused the program.

So now I need to source a similar box to do the same and record programs to a hard drive, does anyone have any experience of these PVR's and could recommend one that does not cost the Earth and whole leg and an arm. Looking for one that will record at least 2 programs at the same time, while watching a third and is also capable of handing at least HD if not 4K?

Can’t you just pull what you want off streaming sites from the TV companies. Works for me. That or downloading it off 1337x.to. Mostly use our Xbox one for streaming and a usb stick for downloaded stuff. Soooo much less effort

Oh and congrats at losing VM. They are a bunch of shits 

[beanflying]

Modern copper based or tubed aluminium heatsinks manage that really well also they do however respond faster to load as they have lower thermal inertia over liquid systems.

So with lower thermal inertia they get hot faster, right? And you want your CPU to get hot faster, yes? I think you need to take a step back, think about what is going on and think your arguments through before making them. At the moment you're making a right pig's ear of making your case.

I agree with your fundamental case that for typical computers, in typical circumstances, air cooling is all that is needed and liquid cooling is just introducing further complexity and failure points. I disagree with your contention that air cooling is fundamentally better than liquid cooling, in any well designed system liquid cooling will stand a better chance of keeping chip temperatures low - "because thermodynamics" it's more effective (but not efficient, those liquid pumps need additional joules). There's a reason that all your motor vehicles use liquid cooling, and it isn't because the motor engineers are liquid cooling fanboys who want bragging rights (if they did they would also fit LED illumination inside the engine compartment). As a man who ran several air-cooled motorcycles back in the day I can speak to the drawbacks and again there's a reason that even piddling 125cc bikes use water cooling nowadays.

Don't put statements I have never made and try and attribute them to me! I have NEVER made the claim Air cooling is more effective than Liquid. My contention is and always has been KISS as it works.

[beanflying]

To be really pedantic, ALL of them are ultimately air cooled.  The only question is whether the heat goes from the CPU directly through a piece of metal to reach that air, or if it hitches a ride on some liquid along the way between two pieces of metal, one at each end of its journey.   

-Pat

Thank you, and I did say that air is used in both system as the final means of cooling, but one of them actually dumps the warm air back in the case and then relies on another fan to pull that air out of the case, which is way less efficient than having a rad mounted at the very edge of the case and then blow cool air through the rad to so the warm air is then dumped outside of the case.

And the few hundred Watts dumped from the generally Air cooled GPU goes where?

[Saskia]

Changing topic quickly, but still off topic.

I have just given Virgin Media the heave-ho with regard to TV programme provider to the specmaster household. I have had a aerial installed and will be using freeview in the future and saving around £80 a month. That being said, with their Tivo boxes you can effectively pause live TV if needed to answer the phone etc and them continue watching from the point you paused the program.

So now I need to source a similar box to do the same and record programs to a hard drive, does anyone have any experience of these PVR's and could recommend one that does not cost the Earth and whole leg and an arm. Looking for one that will record at least 2 programs at the same time, while watching a third and is also capable of handing at least HD if not 4K?

I could mail you a couple of TV series via splitmail etc. Should be around 30 TB. Did you set up your mailbox to receive 

[AVGresponding]

My contention is and always has been KISS as it works.

I agree. As I said, I only went to the LQ because in my use case it's quieter, and I built my own rather than buying a ready made one because I'm a skinflint. I have kept the thing as simple as I can.

Though I have considered adding a peltier module to pre-chill the cool side...

[factory]

You beat me to it.  The 3580A was the other piece of test equipment I pulled out today since I knew the page number was coming up!  I really did a bad job setting up the front panel parameters for that picture.  I really should’ve expanded the LO feed through off to the left edge of the screen but oh well, like the 502A, casualty of limited playtime before having to tear out the door to go to work.

I made that photo about a week ago, when page 3577 was coming up
Still had to make two rather useless posts on pg. 3579 since it's been right after midnight here and I didn't want to wait anymore for page 3580 ...

Missed page 3581 while I was at work, oh well can't actually find a picture of the item in question anyway and it's in storage. 
Try again in another 150ish pages.....

David

[Specmaster]

To be really pedantic, ALL of them are ultimately air cooled.  The only question is whether the heat goes from the CPU directly through a piece of metal to reach that air, or if it hitches a ride on some liquid along the way between two pieces of metal, one at each end of its journey.   

-Pat

Thank you, and I did say that air is used in both system as the final means of cooling, but one of them actually dumps the warm air back in the case and then relies on another fan to pull that air out of the case, which is way less efficient than having a rad mounted at the very edge of the case and then blow cool air through the rad to so the warm air is then dumped outside of the case.

And the few hundred Watts dumped from the generally Air cooled GPU goes where?

Well all the air cooled GPU's I've seen (I'm assuming that you're referring to those with cooling fans rather than passive ones), all suck cool air from inside the case and blow that air passed the GPU and other chips in ductwork straight to the exhaust grill, which normally uses the expansion port either above or below the bracket the ports are located on, and the air dumped once again outside the case.

[Specmaster]

Changing topic quickly, but still off topic.

I have just given Virgin Media the heave-ho with regard to TV programme provider to the specmaster household. I have had a aerial installed and will be using freeview in the future and saving around £80 a month. That being said, with their Tivo boxes you can effectively pause live TV if needed to answer the phone etc and them continue watching from the point you paused the program.

So now I need to source a similar box to do the same and record programs to a hard drive, does anyone have any experience of these PVR's and could recommend one that does not cost the Earth and whole leg and an arm. Looking for one that will record at least 2 programs at the same time, while watching a third and is also capable of handing at least HD if not 4K?

I could mail you a couple of TV series via splitmail etc. Should be around 30 TB. Did you set up your mailbox to receive 

Not sure that I follow you here or that you have understood my request, this is the type of thing that I'm looking for https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manhattan-Freeview-Smart-Recorder-500GB/dp/B07RHC2955/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=freeview+recorder&qid=1619720491&sr=8-4 

[Ice-Tea]

To be really pedantic, ALL of them are ultimately air cooled.  The only question is whether the heat goes from the CPU directly through a piece of metal to reach that air, or if it hitches a ride on some liquid along the way between two pieces of metal, one at each end of its journey.   

-Pat

Thank you, and I did say that air is used in both system as the final means of cooling, but one of them actually dumps the warm air back in the case and then relies on another fan to pull that air out of the case, which is way less efficient than having a rad mounted at the very edge of the case and then blow cool air through the rad to so the warm air is then dumped outside of the case.

And the few hundred Watts dumped from the generally Air cooled GPU goes where?

Well all the air cooled GPU's I've seen (I'm assuming that you're referring to those with cooling fans rather than passive ones), all suck cool air from inside the case and blow that air passed the GPU and other chips in ductwork straight to the exhaust grill, which normally uses the expansion port either above or below the bracket the ports are located on, and the air dumped once again outside the case.

Not gonna make a statement on ratios but *a lot* of GPUs don't do that.

[Specmaster]

Changing topic quickly, but still off topic.

I have just given Virgin Media the heave-ho with regard to TV programme provider to the specmaster household. I have had a aerial installed and will be using freeview in the future and saving around £80 a month. That being said, with their Tivo boxes you can effectively pause live TV if needed to answer the phone etc and them continue watching from the point you paused the program.

So now I need to source a similar box to do the same and record programs to a hard drive, does anyone have any experience of these PVR's and could recommend one that does not cost the Earth and whole leg and an arm. Looking for one that will record at least 2 programs at the same time, while watching a third and is also capable of handing at least HD if not 4K?

Can’t you just pull what you want off streaming sites from the TV companies. Works for me. That or downloading it off 1337x.to. Mostly use our Xbox one for streaming and a usb stick for downloaded stuff. Soooo much less effort

Oh and congrats at losing VM. They are a bunch of shits 

Way to complicated for SWMBO to do, she just wants to push a button on the remote and job done. Nah VM not totally gone, still have landline, again SWMBO won’t let me dump it, and I have internet with them and mobile still.

[factory]

Urgent Member Re Education required  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/test-equipment-for-sale/msg3559544/#msg3559544

and VK5RC drop the OP a message maybe 

See my passive/aggressive response.

LOL that was perfect! 

Unfortunately he posts similar things occasionally both on here & the UK vintage radio forum (who knows maybe other places too), nothing we say will change his ways, he got fed up with ebay selling & paypal years ago, doesn't seem too interested in listing stuff in forum selling sections either, hence why he won't get any interested folk.
BTW the hp 8640B & 8620's I have were going to get scrapped by him. Also the big lot of test gear I adopted last year came from him too (wasn't a bargain though), unfortunately I just don't have the space to rescue anymore large lots of TEA from him. Complete lack of anything with vacuum or readout bulbs though.


David

[bd139]

I know who you mean. I’ve mostly given up on that forum. I know a couple of ex members personally and there’s a whole load of politics and problems going on with the moderators constantly. I occasionally check for local bargains though 

[Specmaster]

I know who you mean. I’ve mostly given up on that forum. I know a couple of ex members personally and there’s a whole load of politics and problems going on with the moderators constantly. I occasionally check for local bargains though 

I haven't been on it lately either.

[Cerebus]

On another level, does anyone know how many radiators a Bugatti Veyron uses? .... No fewer than 10 of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron.

Yes, but one of those is for the driver's champagne, and another for the passenger's gin and tonic. 

[Cubdriver]

-Pat

oooh, Pat... that color is positively lascivious. I'd love to see that project completed. 

Also, damn you; in the back of my mind, I'm already designing color-coordinated 3DP stepped washers for under the heads of nuts & bolts to protect all that delicious candy...

mnem
 

Thanks!  Yeah, it really is a nice rich color - Eastwood Translucent Red.  Bit of a PITA to apply, as for best effect it must be put on over a base of something else (in this case Eastwood Chrome Smoke), so it's a multi-step process.  My plan is to do the chassis themselves in something darker, though off the top of my head I can't recall exactly what - need to dig out the powders to look - thinking I have some sort of a translucent grey to go over the stainless steel chassis.

But now I need to redo one of the transformers.  You can obviously see the guilt and remorse for the wake of destruction he leaves in his path, can't you?   


-Pat

[Cerebus]

Changing topic quickly, but still off topic.

I have just given Virgin Media the heave-ho with regard to TV programme provider to the specmaster household. I have had a aerial installed and will be using freeview in the future and saving around £80 a month. That being said, with their Tivo boxes you can effectively pause live TV if needed to answer the phone etc and them continue watching from the point you paused the program.

So now I need to source a similar box to do the same and record programs to a hard drive, does anyone have any experience of these PVR's and could recommend one that does not cost the Earth and whole leg and an arm. Looking for one that will record at least 2 programs at the same time, while watching a third and is also capable of handing at least HD if not 4K?

I'm currently using a rather more complex setup using a mini-pc running linux (actually a Vero 4K that was purpose-designed to run kodi) running kodi and tvheadend with an HDHomeRun Connect Quattro ethernet connected tuner resulting in being able to watch and record pretty much as many channels simultaneously as I want within practical limits (I've recorded five channels while watching another).

BUT, in terms of commercial all-in-one boxes I used to use a Humax STB with a hard disk and that was pretty much the best, least complicated commercial solution that I've ever encountered. The one I used to us is now obsolete, but I'd recommend checking out their current offerings to see if there's something there to suit you.

[Cerebus]

Modern copper based or tubed aluminium heatsinks manage that really well also they do however respond faster to load as they have lower thermal inertia over liquid systems.

So with lower thermal inertia they get hot faster, right? And you want your CPU to get hot faster, yes? I think you need to take a step back, think about what is going on and think your arguments through before making them. At the moment you're making a right pig's ear of making your case.

I agree with your fundamental case that for typical computers, in typical circumstances, air cooling is all that is needed and liquid cooling is just introducing further complexity and failure points. I disagree with your contention that air cooling is fundamentally better than liquid cooling, in any well designed system liquid cooling will stand a better chance of keeping chip temperatures low - "because thermodynamics" it's more effective (but not efficient, those liquid pumps need additional joules). There's a reason that all your motor vehicles use liquid cooling, and it isn't because the motor engineers are liquid cooling fanboys who want bragging rights (if they did they would also fit LED illumination inside the engine compartment). As a man who ran several air-cooled motorcycles back in the day I can speak to the drawbacks and again there's a reason that even piddling 125cc bikes use water cooling nowadays.

Don't put statements I have never made and try and attribute them to me! I have NEVER made the claim Air cooling is more effective than Liquid. My contention is and always has been KISS as it works.

Well it sure sounded like it at one point, hence why I said I think you were making a pig's ear of your argument.

[factory]

Changing topic quickly, but still off topic.

I have just given Virgin Media the heave-ho with regard to TV programme provider to the specmaster household. I have had a aerial installed and will be using freeview in the future and saving around £80 a month. That being said, with their Tivo boxes you can effectively pause live TV if needed to answer the phone etc and them continue watching from the point you paused the program.

So now I need to source a similar box to do the same and record programs to a hard drive, does anyone have any experience of these PVR's and could recommend one that does not cost the Earth and whole leg and an arm. Looking for one that will record at least 2 programs at the same time, while watching a third and is also capable of handing at least HD if not 4K?

I'm currently using a rather more complex setup using a mini-pc running linux (actually a Vero 4K that was purpose-designed to run kodi) running kodi and tvheadend with an HDHomeRun Connect Quattro ethernet connected tuner resulting in being able to watch and record pretty much as many channels simultaneously as I want within practical limits (I've recorded five channels while watching another).

BUT, in terms of commercial all-in-one boxes I used to use a Humax STB with a hard disk and that was pretty much the best, least complicated commercial solution that I've ever encountered. The one I used to us is now obsolete, but I'd recommend checking out their current offerings to see if there's something there to suit you.

If you go for a Humax or other similar box check if you can transfer recordings you want to keep over to a PC, I haven't bought a PVR for more than 10 years, the Topfield & a couple of Humax models were the only ones that had USB for doing this (bloody slow though), none of my current TV equipment is HD (neither are my eyes), can't be bothered updating any of it as I don't watch enough TV to justify it. 

There is a VM Tivo box from my Grandparents place in the shed awaiting scrapping, just don't have the right tools to open it, may have to resort to the more careful methods photonicinduction uses. 

David

[beanflying]

To be really pedantic, ALL of them are ultimately air cooled.  The only question is whether the heat goes from the CPU directly through a piece of metal to reach that air, or if it hitches a ride on some liquid along the way between two pieces of metal, one at each end of its journey.   

-Pat

Thank you, and I did say that air is used in both system as the final means of cooling, but one of them actually dumps the warm air back in the case and then relies on another fan to pull that air out of the case, which is way less efficient than having a rad mounted at the very edge of the case and then blow cool air through the rad to so the warm air is then dumped outside of the case.

And the few hundred Watts dumped from the generally Air cooled GPU goes where?

Well all the air cooled GPU's I've seen (I'm assuming that you're referring to those with cooling fans rather than passive ones), all suck cool air from inside the case and blow that air passed the GPU and other chips in ductwork straight to the exhaust grill, which normally uses the expansion port either above or below the bracket the ports are located on, and the air dumped once again outside the case.

Really 'straight to the exhaust grill'? In the fairly common case of a Tower the GPU (the dominant power emitter/consumer in a gaming/work rig) the only reason that heat goes out at all is because of airflow from inlet fans and these days likely an extra fan at the rear.

If there is no fan at the rear grill the heat from the GPU will take the path of least resistance and go straight into the fans (area of least case pressure) of your likely top mounted Radiator decreasing cooling efficiency unless the case is positively pressurized from the front fans. Even then some of that heat and airflow will likely go into the Radiator.

To much rear fan and you are back into losing one of the so called benefits of water cooling in lower noise and also the reduction in internal case pressure will reduce airflow across the AIO or the fans will need to spin harder to maintain temperature. So it is anairflow juggle.

In the other fairly common case of a front mounted AIO the air from it does not go straight to the outside either and relies heavily on airflow to keep the box cool so in this instance the heated air does not dump straight out at all. So you can not make a general claim about heat (CPU) going straight from the case when you have water cooling it is case and mounting specific.

And none of this is KISS it is additional airflow complexity and more $ spent for a marginal perceived gain.

[factory]

I know who you mean. I’ve mostly given up on that forum. I know a couple of ex members personally and there’s a whole load of politics and problems going on with the moderators constantly. I occasionally check for local bargains though 

I haven't been on it lately either.

I'm still on there, rarely look outside the vintage TEA section though (even though I have a lot of old radios, just don't have the time). There are way too many threads about vacuum bulb testers, one item of TEA I have very little interest in, mine rarely gets used as it takes longer to RTFM & set up than it does to just try another in the equipment.
One of the recently added Mods is very knowledgeable with certain TE (ex HP employee).

David

[mnementh]

I still like butterflies...

mnem
...and that's why dual 120x240mm AiO coolers FTW.

[mansaxel]

To be really pedantic, ALL of them are ultimately air cooled.  The only question is whether the heat goes from the CPU directly through a piece of metal to reach that air, or if it hitches a ride on some liquid along the way between two pieces of metal, one at each end of its journey.   

-Pat

Mine are first air cooled, then water, then water again, then air. I'm circulating air inside a cabinet against a water cooler baffle, and then that water is heat-exchanged to the swimming pool. I've got a buncha pictures; I'll make an effort at a write-up soon. That's as far as I'm going to dip my toes in the water cooling.

[beanflying]

I still like butterflies...

mnem
...and that's why dual 120x240mm AiO coolers FTW.

So we shall just call you the water dragon then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_water_dragon

Level of $ spent to cool the GPU out of interest?

[Cerebus]

If you go for a Humax or other similar box check if you can transfer recordings you want to keep over to a PC, I haven't bought a PVR for more than 10 years, the Topfield & a couple of Humax models were the only ones that had USB for doing this (bloody slow though), none of my current TV equipment is HD (neither are my eyes), can't be bothered updating any of it as I don't watch enough TV to justify it. 

There is a VM Tivo box from my Grandparents place in the shed awaiting scrapping, just don't have the right tools to open it, may have to resort to the more careful methods photonicinduction uses. 

David

That was one of the things in favour of the Humax that I used to use. They complied with the FreeView/broadcaster's requirements that you couldn't extract HR recordings to outside the box, but left a hole in one corner of the setup that allowed you to do exactly that which wasn't documented but was easy to find out how to do with the most trivial bit of Googling. In fact for the one I used to use there was a third party supported alternative firmware that kept all the standard features and added others, including hassle free export of HD content.

[mnementh]

-Pat

oooh, Pat... that color is positively lascivious. I'd love to see that project completed. 

Also, damn you; in the back of my mind, I'm already designing color-coordinated 3DP stepped washers for under the heads of nuts & bolts to protect all that delicious candy...

mnem
 

Thanks!  Yeah, it really is a nice rich color - Eastwood Translucent Red.  Bit of a PITA to apply, as for best effect it must be put on over a base of something else (in this case Eastwood Chrome Smoke), so it's a multi-step process.  My plan is to do the chassis themselves in something darker, though off the top of my head I can't recall exactly what - need to dig out the powders to look - thinking I have some sort of a translucent grey to go over the stainless steel chassis.

But now I need to redo one of the transformers.  You can obviously see the guilt and remorse for the wake of destruction he leaves in his path, can't you?   


-Pat

LOL... I don't believe actual remorse is possible for that species. Occasional guilt, at the moment of being caught, yes... which usually turns into an immediate "You didn't see that" and stalking off in disdain unless you're already after them with a broom or water bottle... 

To get the proper depth for any candy color, it has to be one or more clear color coats over a metallic base coat. No other way. You can really deepen the "feel" by laying down a couple coats of clear-clear before the colored clear... then a couple coats after... then... *droool*

mnem
WhuWeTalkinAboot...?