Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Saskia]

Bossman sent me my objectives for next year. FFS, the year does not have enough hours to fit that stuff in.
However my dev plan states that I need to get knowledgeable on FPGAs and design.

Boss, I need a Versal dev board, at 12k it's a bargain 

[mnementh]

have a TS100 running off a lead acid battery and a step up converter.

Yeah, bean and I already have oodles of LiPo flight packs to choose from for such a purpose.

The CV/CC Buck/Boost regulator I was talking aboot is exactly that... you don't want to run any of these off a non-CC power source. That appears to be exactly what bean has on his portable build. 

mnem
*tssssst...*

[Specmaster]

Guys, why are you bashing Rossman for doing what he does? Do you seriously for a single moment believe that none of his customers are not fully aware of how he repairs their goods, robbing Peter to pay Paul by using chips removed from duff boards, replacing corroded tracks and pads with wires etc.

And do you seriously believe that he is charging his customers for repairs which do not work, he gives warranties on his work, he also makes no attempt to disguise the fact that he has a YouTube channel, in fact I think if you watch his videos, that his YouTube awards are hanging up on the wall. He is not one of these shady companies operating out of a garden shed somewhere, he has proper business premises and a professional website which lists what he does and explains  https://www.rossmanngroup.com/.

It's the way he uses false equivalencies to sell everything he does; as if he were somehow the vanguard of the "Right to Repair" movement when in fact he's just another pitch-man selling his services. He uses the muck-raking he does to cast Apple as a villain, when the bottom line is most of the time you simply cannot do a proper repair on the kind of stuff Apple makes and still have the product Apple makes.

It is too fucking complex, too fucking miniaturized to make that possible. If you change the design to facilitate repair, you are not going to have the "6 pounds of sheer joy in the palm of your hand" product which Apple sells. You will have a product sortof like the iPwn, but much bigger in almost every dimension, and ugly AF.

Apple knows this. On a visceral level, so does Rossman. He's just using the controversy he creates with these false equivalencies to sell his services.

I never trust anyone who uses those sales tactics. EVER. And neither should you.

mnem
is  , no matter what the flavor.

At the end of the day, he does not ever claim to be able to fix every problem as you would know if you watched some of his newer videos or actually read what is on his website. He does offer a lot of services that Apple and I dare say, many other manufacturers just won't do, for instance he can recover photos data, personal photos etc, very often from smashed or even liquid damaged phones and or drives regardless of if they are spinning rust discs or solid state. Apple for instance will not do this, claiming instead that it can't be done. Yes I know about the iCloud backup service, but most people I know complain that their phone/tablet has stopped backing up their photos because their space is full up meaning that if anything happened to their device, everything on it is lost.

On top of all that, the man gives guarantees on his work, if he was a Charleton he would not do that would he now. Rogue traders generally exist for long before they get named and shamed and forced to close down their businesses.

I get it that certain people may not like it that he seems to be reasonably successful in what he does and his business is growing because he is I think on the verge of opening in Australia as well.

[ch_scr]

Look what arrived today Seller gave me a sore d*ck deal, but it still hurt the wallet
But finally I have an working SMU, two channel at that, with usable connectors!
(You might have spotted it's older brother before, the K2636. Some lower ranges are broken, not such big deal - but it's IO is fully triaxial - so basically I can't use it without buying 1000€ cables...)
But my new baby has standard phoenix IO, so time to make some cables! It came without tilting bail, but it did come with half a rack mounting kit, including the 4 non metric screws
It basically screams for a pair of 3d-printed 4 wire terminal "ears" on each side of the front panel

[Cerebus]

Bossman sent me my objectives for next year. FFS, the year does not have enough hours to fit that stuff in.
However my dev plan states that I need to get knowledgeable on FPGAs and design.

Boss, I need a Versal dev board, at 12k it's a bargain 

Upduino dev board for a Latice iCE40 UltraPlus 5K. All of £7, including delivery to the UK from the USA. 

[mnementh]

Guys, why are you bashing Rossman for doing what he does? Do you seriously for a single moment believe that none of his customers are not fully aware of how he repairs their goods, robbing Peter to pay Paul by using chips removed from duff boards, replacing corroded tracks and pads with wires etc.

And do you seriously believe that he is charging his customers for repairs which do not work, he gives warranties on his work, he also makes no attempt to disguise the fact that he has a YouTube channel, in fact I think if you watch his videos, that his YouTube awards are hanging up on the wall. He is not one of these shady companies operating out of a garden shed somewhere, he has proper business premises and a professional website which lists what he does and explains  https://www.rossmanngroup.com/.

It's the way he uses false equivalencies to sell everything he does; as if he were somehow the vanguard of the "Right to Repair" movement when in fact he's just another pitch-man selling his services. He uses the muck-raking he does to cast Apple as a villain, when the bottom line is most of the time you simply cannot do a proper repair on the kind of stuff Apple makes and still have the product Apple makes.

It is too fucking complex, too fucking miniaturized to make that possible. If you change the design to facilitate repair, you are not going to have the "6 pounds of sheer joy in the palm of your hand" product which Apple sells. You will have a product sortof like the iPwn, but much bigger in almost every dimension, and ugly AF.

Apple knows this. On a visceral level, so does Rossman. He's just using the controversy he creates with these false equivalencies to sell his services.

I never trust anyone who uses those sales tactics. EVER. And neither should you.

mnem
is  , no matter what the flavor.

At the end of the day, he does not ever claim to be able to fix every problem as you would know if you watched some of his newer videos or actually read what is on his website. He does offer a lot of services that Apple and I dare say, many other manufacturers just won't do, for instance he can recover photos data, personal photos etc, very often from smashed or even liquid damaged phones and or drives regardless of if they are spinning rust discs or solid state. Apple for instance will not do this, claiming instead that it can't be done. Yes I know about the iCloud backup service, but most people I know complain that their phone/tablet has stopped backing up their photos because their space is full up meaning that if anything happened to their device, everything on it is lost.

On top of all that, the man gives guarantees on his work, if he was a Charleton he would not do that would he now. Rogue traders generally exist for long before they get named and shamed and forced to close down their businesses.

I get it that certain people may not like it that he seems to be reasonably successful in what he does and his business is growing because he is I think on the verge of opening in Australia as well.

I disagree. As an experienced repair professional, I don't consider a lot of what he does call "fixed" to be in any way less of a bodge than the rubber band belt fix I was talking aboot.

You are so wrong aboot the "rogue traders" ("rough trader"...?) angle... if anything has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt...  it is that in today's world, it is the perception of what someone does rather than what he actually provides that is important. If you can control the perception of what you do, you will instantly have whole herds of sheeple fighting for the chance to support you and defend you against all recriminations.

And he controls the narrative here, with a carny barker's scalpel-like precision.

I stand behind my statement. If he were 100% on the up & up, he wouldn't need to sell his "services" this way.

mnem
Just say "No, thank you."

[Saskia]

need to fucking reinstall my laptop because Xilinx Vitis won't fit onto the C drive and that's the only place this dumbass gpo will accept starting software from. Bloody hell.

It's not as if I had not enuff to do ...

[Saskia]

Addendum:
with the FPGA stuff in my development plan I have an instant "get your tax deduction" card for my home lab equipment and fpga stuff. Meaning that I can write that stuff off my taxes. Including the logic analyzer, the multitudes of scopes, probes, PSUs, ...

[mnementh]

Bossman sent me my objectives for next year. FFS, the year does not have enough hours to fit that stuff in.
However my dev plan states that I need to get knowledgeable on FPGAs and design.

Boss, I need a Versal dev board, at 12k it's a bargain 

Upduino dev board for a Latice iCE40 UltraPlus 5K. All of £7, including delivery to the UK from the USA.     

Can it be programmed in Python IDE...? 

https://www.latticesemi.com/en/Products/FPGAandCPLD/iCE40UltraPlus

mnem
*agitating-ily*

[SilverSolder]

need to fucking reinstall my laptop because Xilinx Vitis won't fit onto the C drive and that's the only place this dumbass gpo will accept starting software from. Bloody hell.

It's not as if I had not enuff to do ...

Just do a directory link/junction, to point it to some other drive while it still thinks it is on C:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/junction

[tggzzz]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

For gymnastic Soldering a 3S Lipo DC-DC boost box and a TS100 takes a lot of beating.

I really don't want 'another' project as the current list is way to long so a proper no fuss tool is needed. Even the manual knob twirled Aoyue works for 90% on my needs but its not as stable or gutsy as I want sometimes so the TS100 gets pulled from the gear bag as it does better because of the tip.

You can also get gas powered irons that can be used anywhere as long as your gas canister has gas.

Ever tried to do some 'actual electronic' Soldering with a Gas iron? Not an experience I ever want to have again before you get to the dangers of carrying Butane in a  vehicle in the Aussie climate or go near a plane to travel with one.

Yes, with a red hot poker similar to these, heated on the gas hob. Not recently, fortunately.

[THDplusN_bad]

Look what arrived today Seller gave me a sore d*ck deal, but it still hurt the wallet
But finally I have an working SMU, two channel at that, with usable connectors!
(You might have spotted it's older brother before, the K2636. Some lower ranges are broken, not such big deal - but it's IO is fully triaxial - so basically I can't use it without buying 1000€ cables...)
But my new baby has standard phoenix IO, so time to make some cables! It came without tilting bail, but it did come with half a rack mounting kit, including the 4 non metric screws
It basically screams for a pair of 3d-printed 4 wire terminal "ears" on each side of the front panel

Good Day,

yay - I am envy-green all over, but I am glad for you!   

Hopefully, this SMU will be of good service for many years.

Congratulations. Now you will spend many hours working on testing components; just to produce a pile of data and plots already available in the data sheets. Just like me... 

Cheers,

THDplusN_bad

[capt bullshot]

Addendum:
with the FPGA stuff in my development plan I have an instant "get your tax deduction" card for my home lab equipment and fpga stuff. Meaning that I can write that stuff off my taxes. Including the logic analyzer, the multitudes of scopes, probes, PSUs, ...

So you'd want a receipt for that TDS420? 

[Robert763]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

For gymnastic Soldering a 3S Lipo DC-DC boost box and a TS100 takes a lot of beating.

I really don't want 'another' project as the current list is way to long so a proper no fuss tool is needed. Even the manual knob twirled Aoyue works for 90% on my needs but its not as stable or gutsy as I want sometimes so the TS100 gets pulled from the gear bag as it does better because of the tip.

You can also get gas powered irons that can be used anywhere as long as your gas canister has gas.

Ever tried to do some 'actual electronic' Soldering with a Gas iron? Not an experience I ever want to have again before you get to the dangers of carrying Butane in a  vehicle in the Aussie climate or go near a plane to travel with one.

The Weller gas powered irons are catalytic so no naked flame. I agree leaving in car in hot climate is not a good idea. The Weller irons are allowed on aircraft, from a hazmat point of view,  in carry-on luggage. They are judged to be the same as gas powered hair curlers (also catalytic) or lighters. You cannot carry refills in carry on or checked baggage.  I often carried one on aircraft in the past. The problem these days is security, since 9-11 most countries do not allow "tools" in your carry on. It's clearly a tool and has a point so should not be allowed in the cabin.
A Weller TCP iron and 24V battery pack works well out doors. For most tasks running one off 12V (e.g. car) is adequate. They used to make a 12V version of the TCP, I have one, but they are not common.

[ch_scr]

Look what arrived today Seller gave me a sore d*ck deal, but it still hurt the wallet
But finally I have an working SMU, two channel at that, with usable connectors!
(You might have spotted it's older brother before, the K2636. Some lower ranges are broken, not such big deal - but it's IO is fully triaxial - so basically I can't use it without buying 1000€ cables...)
But my new baby has standard phoenix IO, so time to make some cables! It came without tilting bail, but it did come with half a rack mounting kit, including the 4 non metric screws
It basically screams for a pair of 3d-printed 4 wire terminal "ears" on each side of the front panel

Good Day,

yay - I am envy-green all over, but I am glad for you!   

Hopefully, this SMU will be of good service for many years.

Congratulations. Now you will spend many hours working on testing components; just to produce a pile of data and plots already available in the data sheets. Just like me... 

Cheers,

THDplusN_bad

Yes, I have been thinking about having a plug onto the ears - so the cable can alternatively plug into a test fixture.
Edit: And "maybe" the "show your curve tracer" posts is what had me looking again for these units in the first place

[bd139]

3478A battery transplant went ok. 

Doing the rest of the caps now.

[THDplusN_bad]

Yep, I know that bug very well.... 

Yes, your idea to use cables and/or 4 mm- alias banana-connectors sounds good.

I'd recommend making your own universal test adapter. Like this one 

Cheers,

THDplusN_bad

[THDplusN_bad]

Glad you like the idea...

[ch_scr]

Yep, I know that bug very well.... 

Yes, your idea to use cables and/or 4 mm- alias banana-connectors sounds good.

I'd recommend making your own universal test adapter. Like this one 

Cheers,

THDplusN_bad

Nice box
I have a HP16058A fixture that was modified by it's previous owner, with some of the inserts. Back from when I did not know that the K2636 had Keithley-specific toleranced triaxial jacks, so that only the plugs you buy on their cables fit and dreamed of making my own triax connection cables.
When I bought the fixture on "offer a price" it was good, at least taking into account the additional triaxial jacks mounted to the modification. Little did I know...
Edit: looking at epay, the prices for these seem to have gone up. Feel a little better now having bought mine ~4 years ago
Just to rub it in, I could not even begin to think of using this until now...

[mansaxel]

I'll add my praise for the TS100. Once it gets a laptop PSU (old IBM 16V or "hp" 19V) driving it, it's almost invincible. But I'd like a chisel tip; the present pin-point is not a very good heat transfer device..  Is it the "TS-D24" I am looking for?

[Saskia]

Addendum:
with the FPGA stuff in my development plan I have an instant "get your tax deduction" card for my home lab equipment and fpga stuff. Meaning that I can write that stuff off my taxes. Including the logic analyzer, the multitudes of scopes, probes, PSUs, ...

So you'd want a receipt for that TDS420? 

no, of course not. I did buy some stuff from Agilent / Keysight that I can actually write off.
E.g. the 16702B ...

[factory]

Some eBay picks while I'm at home sick:
Somebody please rescue this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cambridge-Instruments-A-C-Test-Set-Vintage-Display-Steampunk-Lamp-Project/324533556897

A local seller had an older one of those last week, it only made a tenner on an auction listing.
I have a similar one with leads attached branded H.W. Sullivan, it was bought at the local bunker sale a few years ago, they had been trying to get rid of it at quite a few sales before I acquired it.

Shame this is the wrong side of the Channel:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Russisches-Messgerat-C2-23-S2-23-vermutlich-Modulationsmesser-Nixie-Display/353419502032

Bought quite a few things from that seller this year, no problems getting them across the Channel, all import fees are paid through ePay (providing price doesn't go above £100 ish, can't remember the exact amount) with code paid on the shipping label. They do like using far too many industrial staples to seal the packing boxes though.

Think ePay need to work on their translations, not sure what the hell they are offering here (third one down). 


David

[bd139]

Ok 3478A done.

All the electrolytic capacitors replaced with modern 105 oC Panasonic FR or Kemet units. RIFAs replaced with non RIFAs 



Extracted bodies which are being disposed of:



And one particularly nasty looking bastard!



Meter works perfectly afterwards with no calibration loss. Phew!!! 

Next step is destickering and cosmetic restoration...

[cyclin_al]

This whole discussion on right to repair has many more layers to it, some of them not pertaining to electronics per se.
As with anything, I think there are those any movement will truly help, along with those who will take advantage and also those who will abuse it.  We can speculate who fits which category; I think many of the names have already been named here.

I want to bring up another perspective for looking at the situation.  Remember the whole discussion the past few days about charging cables, whether USB or Lightning or whatever?  At some very basic level, this is still a repair.  As mentioned, there are difficulties and traps for performing a repair as simple as replacing a worn-out cable.  Do you have the right to replace your cable with another cable that you think is appropriate.  What do you think if only the device manufacturer can decide what cable is appropriate and only they can perform the repair?

Electronics is not so bad compared to some other areas.  We have specs available and we expect to be able to choose any cable that meets the spec.  It looks like our choices and available options are narrowing down.  At what level do we consider it to be our right and how does that influence our behaviours and the market?
Take the example of a farm tractor where it has grown much more insidious.  You go to your local dealer to buy a tractor with a mower.  The mower comes with a secure dongle that must be plugged into the tractor.  The dealer installs software on the tractor that reads the dongle and automatically sets the PTO RPM, the throttle and will automatically adjust the cut height over the terrain according to the grass height you selected.  So far that all sounds pretty nice.  Next year you want to add a garden, so you borrow your neighbours rototiller attachment.  It will not work on your tractor.  It physically connects no problem.  However, the PTO will not run without a valid dongle.  How to do it?  The only way is to go back to the dealer and buy a new rototiller of the same brand with a dongle.  You are totally locked in.  You bring the tiller home and it still will not operate.  You forgot to take the tractor in to the dealer, pay a licence fee and get the tiller software installed on the tractor.  It now costs thousands of dollars for what used to cost a couple of beers for the neighbour.

Imagine if test leads were encoded with serial numbers and functions with different leads for current and voltage measurements.  There would be a revolt 
It could be that bad if TE and electronics was like tractors.

One of the big problems here is understanding the impact and consequences.  There is also the aspect of gaining advantages in one area (fancy mower control) balanced with disadvantages in another area (ability to customize the tractor function).  Another is expectation versus reality.  The expectation for the tractor was a versatile machine that can do many tasks; any long-time farmer will probably share that expectation.  The tractor reality is now an effective machine at doing one set of tasks.  Who caused the situation?  The farmers bought these tractors.  The manufacturers designed them.  Probably everyone contributed to the situation to some extent.  I think there is no sense in assessing blame.  The farm benefit is turning out to be not much, since the advantages gained are being weighed down by the disadvantages that came along at the same time.

Rather, where is the right balance?  Less and less I think things in life sit in a reasonable steady state.  It seems there is always a pendulum swinging right past the sweet spot, and we never get it right.  It looks like consumer electronics like phones and tablets are out on a pendulum swing right now.  It is tough to right the balance because all the products have followed the pendulum and the market is captive.

What is the solution?  So far my best take on it is to keep whatever was available just as the pendulum was swinging through the sweet spot, then hang on to those items forever. 


time for supper (maybe that is really why I had a good rant)

[BU508A]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

My two T12 KSGER OLED stations work fine. 

I made one totally over engineered and one with an el cheapo chinesium DC/DC switcher using a matching (power-rating-wise) toroid transformer.
Ok, I still have my Weller WECP-20 and EC-2002 soldering stations sitting in the corner if the T12s should fail.
They haven't yet.

If you like building your own soldering Station for little money,
go for the DC-variant of the KSGER OLED soldering station controller 2.1/2.1S.
Avoid the AC-variant and it's broken AC-supply (bad earthing and a "waiting to kill you" isolation flaw).     

I'm looking for JBC stations for C470 cartridges for the soldering jobs needing "real" power on the other hand..     

Will this never end...?   

I can recommend the JBC T470/C470 soldering iron. I'm owning one as well. Bought it in the bay (HD-2B with the T470) for around 150 Euro. I've made an adapter switch for it, so I can use a T245/C245 soldering iron as well.
Pictures can be found here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2814526/#msg2814526