Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

From the "From The Sublime To The Ridiculous..." Dept...



Tripped over this while trying to find a pinout on some cables I'm fabbing up... but right now, time to make breakfast.

mnem

[psykok]

Hey psy,

Here my addictions:

-Metcal
-Festool
-Knipex
-Bernstein
-(recently) Hager
-Keysight
-TTi

those companies could sell me dog shit I would buy it.

Yes Bosch blue is sexy too but when I see the green Festool I go out of control

Agreed, I have already a lot of Festool machines and they are great but the Kapex has some issue and a creasy price.

[Zucca]

KS120 - GCM 12 GDL = about 200 Euro... meehhh

[psykok]

Today morning I had an other 300km TEA road trip to clear a small workshop.

I was just barely  able to fit everything  in my Toyota Auris.


I got a lot of things with probably a lot of crap and Electronics books from an other age.
I will have some fun this WE by sorting everything

 

[psykok]

KS120 - GCM 12 GDL = about 200 Euro... meehhh

I don't know  where you are checking the price for these machines but for me the Bosh is 735€ and almost the double  for the festool

[McBryce]

I found an inappropriate Police Academy GIF and decided to be good 

So my 500Meg probed arrived today and was hiding in the mail box so playtime tomorrow. In unrelated news Aliexpress seems to know way more about what 50+ year old Single blokes want and need than they even know themselves.

Please DON'T give us a tear-down video!!!

McBryce.

[Zucca]

for me the Bosh is 735€

the GCM 12 not the GCM 12 GDL. BTW you are right the Festool KS120 is almost as expensive as Apple.

[BU508A]

KS120 - GCM 12 GDL = about 200 Euro... meehhh

I think, this is a misunderstanding.

The GCM 12 GDL is around 700 Euro.

[capt bullshot]

So, now there's a new patient on the bench:



For some first tests, I've connected 10V DC / 10V AC to its inputs and found the measured values slowly fluctuating above and below the correct 10.00V reading. All channels voltage and current inputs showed this fluctuation.
OK, time to take it apart, which isn't obvious at the first glance. One has to remove the feet from the bottom (not the back) side, then the whole instrument slides out of its outer cover. Another about ten screws later, one can lift the internal top cover. To the left, three shielded boxes (voltage inputs), below (not visible) another three shielded boxes for the current inputs. Right hand side, the main processing board is buried under the printer drawer and the power supplies. Yes, it's got two of them: One 5V, 12V, -12V, the other 24V for the printer.

First I checked the supply voltages: Look fairly OK, no signs of excessive ripple. Ran the unit off a lab supply just to be sure - no change in the fluctuations.
Next, I had a look at the input modules. Each has two isolated paths: current and voltage, and each has its own isolated supply, powered by some square wave AC through small transformers. So I checked the isolated voltages: One thing is in common - they're all too low. About 9.8V, and fluctuating, where I'd expect 12V, about 4V fluctuating instead of 5V (just an educated guess, don't have a service manual). These are outputs of (apparently) smallish 78L12 style regulators, so I checked their inputs - too low for this kind of regulator.



So far until now, I'll have to come back later to find out how to remove the printer drawer to gain access to the main board and find the source of the square wave AC supplying the input boards. I'd guess there's something bad within this circuit.

[Cubdriver]

KS120 - GCM 12 GDL = about 200 Euro... meehhh

I think, this is a misunderstanding.

The GCM 12 GDL is around 700 Euro.

I think it's meant to be an equation and he's saying the Festool is 200 euros more than the Bosch - Festool KS120 minus Bosch GCM 12 GDL equals 200 euros.

-Pat

[BU508A]

A few minutes ago, a HP 3458A with option 001 appeared in the German ebay ads.
The 3458A is located in Jena/Germany and the seller (NAWTS) is asking for 2200 Euro.

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/hewlett-packard-hp-3458a/1703430494-168-3772

[BU508A]

KS120 - GCM 12 GDL = about 200 Euro... meehhh

I think, this is a misunderstanding.

The GCM 12 GDL is around 700 Euro.

I think it's meant to be an equation and he's saying the Festool is 200 euros more than the Bosch - Festool KS120 minus Bosch GCM 12 GDL equals 200 euros.

-Pat

Yes, but the Festool Kapex KS120 is significantly more expensive. It starts around 1290 Euro (vs. the 700 for the GCM 12 GDL)

[Robert763]

Looking at the service manual, I was able to find the replacement parts for the front and rear bezels in ebay, but those are for the HP3577B. Please, can someone confirm that these are equivalent? In the service manual these parts appear with different codes for the 3577A (front: 5020-8807, rear: 5020-8808) and 3577B (front: 5021-8407, rear: 5021-5808)

If the part number is different they would probably not fit on your 3577A. Normally if the part number is different, the part itself is also different.

Also, does somebody know if Keysight is still selling parts for this instruments? it seems that this frame/chassis is used in many other HP/Agilent instruments. I would prefer to buy it from them than from ebay.

Keysight is selling parts but the HP3577A is really old. I would be surprise if they still have parts for this instrument. You could contact them but ebay is probably your best bet.

I have to disagree, the later frames will almost certainly fit. They might have minor differences, the worst likely to be metric threads rather than imperial (you could check the prt number of the fasteners for the A and B models). Many keysight parts have later numbers but are still usable.
Keysight still list the later frame
https://www.keysight.com/my/partDetail/5021-8407
About $90

[Ero-Shan]

Med don't read the comments on that video you're going to have a heart attack.

There's a wako in there torturing old Tek oscilloscopes. Someone need to find him and call the police.

And he's (ab)using my avatar! How dare he!

[mnementh]

*runs away and hides*

mnem

[Robert763]

that is my next big buy on my list.
I'm still not sure if I'm going for the FEstool or the Bosh GDM12

I'd probably go for the Bosch GDM12 GCM 12 GDL. Mainly for the glide system it uses.
Pask Makes has a nice video about the arrival of his GCM 12 GDL:

Anyone in the UK see the ambulance programe last week where the guy nearly completly severed his hand with a chop saw?

[beanflying]

Wow old school low volume construction bits Last time I wire wrapped anything might be close to 40 years ago 

Staggered down the backyard to put some Iron on the Lemon tree no luck finding Possums with it yet but there is a Yellow Brick Road back to the shack it seems. Crude depth of field test but working well.

Nice.
What does the thermal image look like without the visible overlay?

Fully out and full background only. The file format saves both images from the separate cameras so it is a software blend. There is plenty more marker options to play with as well in software.

[Zucca]

Anyone in the UK see the ambulance programe last week where the guy nearly completly severed his hand with a chop saw?

I am scared. One day I was at a big friend of mine (second generation carpenter) shop. He told me:"See all the machines I have? Well the chop saw is the most dangerous one I have".
You have to respect that device!

Got the Festool stupid expensive, yes, but I hope it will be safer than the cheap ass one.

Saw the video about the Bosh GCM 12 GDL (yes it is around 700 Euro, sorry for before I just punched in what I found on the fist webpage), nice one!

[Cubdriver]

I'm back. Trip to the sellers location was uneventful. Item purchased. It's in slightly rougher shape than I thought but it is all there in one piece and nothing broken. Couldn't try a power up since there was no power cord. I should have brought mine. Oh well. Yes, it is big and it is heavy.

Trip home was a shit show. About 30 miles into the trip the tire pressure monitor light comes on. That's never a good thing. I pull off the interstate into a safe area and sure enough. Right rear tire has a big nail/spike in it and you can hear the air leaking. Shit. So I had to unload the big and heavy item so I could get to the temporary spare. Lots of fun. Then the lug nuts were real tight even with the star wrench I always carry and I tweaked my back getting them loose. Finally got the tire changed but had to nurse the CR-V home at reduced speed since that temporary spare doesn't like high speed driving.

I left this morning at 06:30 hours and finally got home at 15:30 hours. I'm tired and I'm pissed. And there is no way I'm jackassing that heavy piece into here today. It's gonna stay in the CR-V overnight. Reveal tomorrow.

I'm going to lay down. Back still hurts. 

Hope you didn't bugger up your back, but it must be said...



 

-Pat

[tautech]

Anyone in the UK see the ambulance programe last week where the guy nearly completly severed his hand with a chop saw?

I am scared. One day I was at a big friend of mine (second generation carpenter) shop. He told me:"See all the machines I have? Well the chop saw is the most dangerous one I have".
You have to respect that device!

A buzzer/planer more !
Bandsaws also claim a few fingers ........all machinery has no conscience and will eat whatever you put in its way....you included !

[mansaxel]

First time that I went out to dinner in Germany with some colleagues from Frankfurt (from IPF Net/Gigabell for those who remember them) back in the 90s I ordered Sauerbraten, much to the incredulity of Christian "Gott sei Dank: ich bin a Frank" Jachmann. He just couldn't believe an Englishman was going to order something so quintessentially German. I think he expected me to order Wiener schnitzel like every other Englishman he'd met before.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good Wiener schnitzel, crispy and dripping with butter, but there's a lot more to traditional German food than Weiner schnitzel! I make a point on my winter trips to Germany to make sure that I make one trip to the most traditional eatery I can find, usually the local Brauhaus, with as much company as I can muster, and try and get everybody as fat as a Bavarian Banker.

I'm hungry now...

If I'm eating out in Germany, I usually aim for Schweinshaxe, and please hold the mashed potatoes, but I'd love if you could up the Sauerkraut a bit. And another beer, please.

Did an all-nighter (almost) on-site at work yesterday and today; we had major broadcast facility brain surgery as we were set to replace the central sync generator farm. That is something broadcast engineers are somewhat nervous about. A lot of gear don't like that there suddenly shows up one 34ms video frame among all the 20ms frames (Being ex-PAL and 720p/50 and 1080[ip]50 that's our normal frame rate) which was the net result of the changeover.  Also, the new system, which is Tek gear, gets its frequency and wall clock from a pair of modular german GPSDO machines, via IEEE 1588-2008 PTP. That's my baby. New, IP-based gear runs directly from PTP, no need to emulate the physics requirements of a CRT anymore...

Anyway, on my way in, and as if I have to explain why I kidnap a discussion on good ways to have horse with a digression on time-nuttery in the TEA thread,  I stopped for takeout at a fairly new curry house close to work. Was positively impressed. Not overly strong, but good taste and lotsa food.  Poor staff were practically begging me to mention them to my colleagues. Their menu went up on the fridge in the lunch room. 

I then spent the first hour after dinner, being very full,  huffing and puffing and inspecting fibre ferrules with my new Anritsu toy. 
Even short runs of timing-critical networks are best done with opticks, since the forward error correction necessary in electrickal GigE and above adds measurable PDV in the forwarding plane... (Newton/Maxwell spelling on snouty purpose here)

[Kosmic]

Looking at the service manual, I was able to find the replacement parts for the front and rear bezels in ebay, but those are for the HP3577B. Please, can someone confirm that these are equivalent? In the service manual these parts appear with different codes for the 3577A (front: 5020-8807, rear: 5020-8808) and 3577B (front: 5021-8407, rear: 5021-5808)

If the part number is different they would probably not fit on your 3577A. Normally if the part number is different, the part itself is also different.

Also, does somebody know if Keysight is still selling parts for this instruments? it seems that this frame/chassis is used in many other HP/Agilent instruments. I would prefer to buy it from them than from ebay.

Keysight is selling parts but the HP3577A is really old. I would be surprise if they still have parts for this instrument. You could contact them but ebay is probably your best bet.

I have to disagree, the later frames will almost certainly fit. They might have minor differences, the worst likely to be metric threads rather than imperial (you could check the prt number of the fasteners for the A and B models). Many keysight parts have later numbers but are still usable.
Keysight still list the later frame
https://www.keysight.com/my/partDetail/5021-8407
About $90

Well it's a gamble. Might fit but it's not exactly the same part.

Personally, since it's probably aluminum, I would simply try to use those brazing rods to repair the frame.

https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/products/blue-demon-triple-play-brazing-rod?variant=14453377925164

[mnementh]

Amazon Heads-Up : SN-02BM Chinese Crimpers & Connector Kit

            

While looking for JST-SH connectors to make up a few cables for my new PC case project ( I was planning to do it the hard way with pliers and soldering), I discovered this kit on Amazon.ca for ridiculously cheap (Cad$42/US$35):

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B082234HSS/

Over 2000 pieces of Chinese clone JST-XH connectors and 0.100" "Dupont" connectors along with a crimper that looks suspiciously well-made in the photos. So I decided to take a gamble; what arrived was much better quality than expected. Plier body plates meet well without slop, it has adjustable tension, the dies are made of ground steel rather than sintered metal, and as you can see, they meet very precisely.

I made up a few small speaker wires with JST-XH for a project; all crimped successfully with zero grief. The crimps are all tin-plated brass; I scraped the coating off to be sure. The "Dupont" crimps are obviously also cheap clone bits as well; they don't have the long diagonally meshing crimps over the insulation like real Dupont ends have, but rather are shorter and probably designed for this type of crimper. When I get to that part of the project I'll report back on how they turned out.

https://www.amazon.com/Hautton-Crimping-Terminal-Ratcheting-Connectors/dp/B083DRCFRY

This particular kit does not appear to be available on the US site; however they do appear to offer similar kits under other "brands". The key search term appears to be SN-02BM , the model number of the crimping pliers. They also appear to have a cousin, the SN-28B , made for larger non-insulation crimp connectors as we commonly use in automotive applications with ring, spade & bullet connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=SN-02BM&ref=nb_sb_noss

Bottom line is that I probably wouldn't use these crimps for anything mission-critical; but the crimpers are definitely much better than the price, and for random connector stuff to knock a project together quick at low cost, I think the entire kit's a positive winner all the way around.

mnem
*toolish ol' dwagon*

Promised Followup: Cheap Chinese Crimpers from Amazon

So today I finally got back to "The Sleevening" on my new Gaming PC box, and I had to make up a couple "Dupont" connectors. Here's what I found:




Okay... right out the gate, not most promising.  With the other side as far back as it can go in the outer dies, the inner conductor dies don't cover the entire inner crimp region. So much for my supposition that these crimps were made to match this type of crimper. 


   

However; otherwise the crimps do fit well, and are easy to get aligned properly, just like the crimps for the JST-XH connectors. Trick is to get it in the slot, then bring the jaws closed to the point where the tabs bottom out in the throat of the die, then go just one more ratchet click; this starts the crimp so they're nice & round and easy to get the wire in. You can feel it bottom out, and see the strands in place on the other side of the die. Here I've sacrificed one for science to demonstrate. 




However, as you can see in the previous image and here, the too-narrow dies cut the inner conductor crimp a little. This does not look good; however the successfully crimped portion is ~1.6mm of 2.5mm possible. When I tried to pull it apart, the crimp cut a bit out of my skin but did not come even a bit loose in either the conductor or insulation crimp regions; I'm going to say that's still a serviceable crimp.




So just when you think things might be okay... the finished crimp doesn't quite fit in the Dupont shell.   




However, this is easily fixed. Just the slightest little bit of a squeeze with some flat-jawed pliers on the insulation crimp...




...and it slides right in. No other fiddling to the body or the inner conductor crimp is necessary; and yes, it does "float" inside the shell like it should so the contacts can self-align against the pin.




And now it's time to move forward with "The Sleevening"; while it clearly does not crimp the "Dupont" connectors perfectly, and an extra step is needed to make it fit in the shell properly... I still feel that this is an all-around excellent value at this price. 

Unlike the myriad horror stories of failed crimp after fail with other similar crimpers, these have yielded a successful crimp every time with zero fails and zero fatalities (so far... knock on wood ), so I'm going to stick with them until such time as I have my workbench back.

mnem
Stay hungry, stay foolish.

[mindcrime]

Again. I did it AGAIN. I ordered something from Keysight that I don't need. I have way more than enough of these damn things taking up room in my home already, and DID NOT NEED another one! Except... I did. Really. Sort of. I mean. It looked cool. And it will get use. I promise.

At least this didn't break the bank like last time.

Here it is... my newest acquisition:

[Robert763]

Looking at the service manual, I was able to find the replacement parts for the front and rear bezels in ebay, but those are for the HP3577B. Please, can someone confirm that these are equivalent? In the service manual these parts appear with different codes for the 3577A (front: 5020-8807, rear: 5020-8808) and 3577B (front: 5021-8407, rear: 5021-5808)

If the part number is different they would probably not fit on your 3577A. Normally if the part number is different, the part itself is also different.

Also, does somebody know if Keysight is still selling parts for this instruments? it seems that this frame/chassis is used in many other HP/Agilent instruments. I would prefer to buy it from them than from ebay.

Keysight is selling parts but the HP3577A is really old. I would be surprise if they still have parts for this instrument. You could contact them but ebay is probably your best bet.

I have to disagree, the later frames will almost certainly fit. They might have minor differences, the worst likely to be metric threads rather than imperial (you could check the prt number of the fasteners for the A and B models). Many keysight parts have later numbers but are still usable.
Keysight still list the later frame
https://www.keysight.com/my/partDetail/5021-8407
About $90

Well it's a gamble. Might fit but it's not exactly the same part.

Personally, since it's probably aluminum, I would simply try to use those brazing rods to repair the frame.

https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/products/blue-demon-triple-play-brazing-rod?variant=14453377925164

The frames are common across many instruments. The part number is likely for a minor production change or maybe colour.