Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Robert763]

OK, status change to delivered:


Interesting detail - there's a printer in a drawer 


Have to continue @work, teams scheduled in 10min, so no more fun with fresh TEA ATM.

Nice 
I have one of their small single phase ones. Not many people realise that most of the Voltech power analysers (including the PM3300 and my small one) work at DC as well as AC. This makes them even more useful. 

[Ice-Tea]

For example:
- some references: voltage reference, resistor reference, 10MHz lab refrence ...

A rubidium frequency reference! Dang, I knew that was something I was forgetting.   

And one-of-these-days I'll get a standalone frequency counter.

That's it. Two more items for my bench and I'm DONE. Really. I mean it. This time, for reals...

You need at least three counters. One to compare to the first, and a third as arbitrator. And, you need a GPSDO (and/or) a Cs normal to put some long-time disciplin into the Rb normal. If you feel that the difference between Cs and Rb is too small, there's always the hydrogen maser.

Time nuttery is a very beautiful nuttery, because it like its sibling Volt nuttery, breeds TEA.

You don't really need lots of counters, just lots of references. I only have about 6 counters (2 with 10811D OCXOs) but 3 GPSDO's (HP, Symmetricom, Trimble) running 24/7 with 3 more available.  In addition three Rb's (one GPS disciplined) and a few "good" OCXO's. Currently boxing up a 10811D as a portable reference.

You obviously still need a Cesium standard. 

[Ice-Tea]

There are some rumors about the new AMD µP line, from what I heard AMD right now is like the italian porn actor "Rocco Siffredi" when he was 25 years old...  is going to FUUU them all.
Apple M1 is still there. Intel RIP bye bye you miss the train.

Yeah they’re pushing 45W TDP laptops out which burn your dick off  . Rocco wouldn’t be happy about that  . AMD/Apple 15W.

Got to be honest though this i5-10400 desktop I just threw together is pretty good. Intel are still well placed on the desktop because there is stock, they are cheaper (!), have built in GPU which is good enough for most tasks other than games and aren’t crazy TDP (65W). Few observations comparing to my older Ryzen build:

1. Their power management is much much better. Suspend/resume is instant on this.
2. Boot up is much faster. Clean boot to login on this machine is 4 seconds.
3. Single core speed is about the same as a 3600.
4. Multi core ffmpeg compile in a VM is about the same as a 3600
5. Turned it on and it worked. No futzing or arguing with BIOS upgrades.

i5-10400 was £148. Ryzen 3600 is £179 here at the moment and I’d have to spend £50 on a shit GPU just to get it working. There are no Ryzen -G suffix parts available here at the moment.

Intel won this one. Probably because they have their own fabs more than anything.

Edit: attach inevitable build photos.

Eh, 3x00G's are relatively easy to get over here. But the 10400 will do just fine Strange things happening with the world if Intel pushes things out the door cheaper than AMD.

[Robert763]

For example:
- some references: voltage reference, resistor reference, 10MHz lab refrence ...

A rubidium frequency reference! Dang, I knew that was something I was forgetting.   

And one-of-these-days I'll get a standalone frequency counter.

That's it. Two more items for my bench and I'm DONE. Really. I mean it. This time, for reals...

You need at least three counters. One to compare to the first, and a third as arbitrator. And, you need a GPSDO (and/or) a Cs normal to put some long-time disciplin into the Rb normal. If you feel that the difference between Cs and Rb is too small, there's always the hydrogen maser.

Time nuttery is a very beautiful nuttery, because it like its sibling Volt nuttery, breeds TEA.

You don't really need lots of counters, just lots of references. I only have about 6 counters (2 with 10811D OCXOs) but 3 GPSDO's (HP, Symmetricom, Trimble) running 24/7 with 3 more available.  In addition three Rb's (one GPS disciplined) and a few "good" OCXO's. Currently boxing up a 10811D as a portable reference.

You obviously still need a Cesium standard. 

Not really. they are very expensive for something tha has limied life and needs to be left on all he time. he GPSDOs are more than enough for my needs.

[tggzzz]

Strange things happening with the world if Intel pushes things out the door cheaper than AMD.

Intel is misfiring on three cylinders at the moment. Charlie Demerjian is well informed...
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2021/03/16/intels-rocket-lake-cpu-shouldnt-have-been-made/

[psykok]

I just received my new Fluke acquisition
 

[bd139]

Strange things happening with the world if Intel pushes things out the door cheaper than AMD.

Intel is misfiring on three cylinders at the moment. Charlie Demerjian is well informed...
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2021/03/16/intels-rocket-lake-cpu-shouldnt-have-been-made/

Indeed. That was the last turd in the pipeline I suspect. They ripped out most of Intel management over the last year so had to flush that chip first. I get the feeling as the now underdogs, they are going to unscrew themselves.

[SilverSolder]

Strange things happening with the world if Intel pushes things out the door cheaper than AMD.

Intel is misfiring on three cylinders at the moment. Charlie Demerjian is well informed...
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2021/03/16/intels-rocket-lake-cpu-shouldnt-have-been-made/

As long as Rocket Lake is cheap enough, there will be buyers.  I'd take one in the $200 range! 

[Wolfgang]

Decided to try zapping Q183 and see what happens. Read 16 ohms emitter to case before, infinite after zapping.  Installed and got a nice trace for a few seconds then back to no sweep as before. Checked Q183 again. Now reads 26 ohms emitter to case. Zapped it again. Now infinite. Installed again. Still no sweep. Checked Q183. Now reads 1.2M emitter to case.  Obviously this transistor is FUBAR. Apparently when power is applied the whiskers go ape so I'm fighting a losing battle. I'll have to wait until the replacement 2N2207's arrive.

Edit, the replacement transistors shipped yesterday. According to USPS they will be here Saturday. I don't believe it since they are coming from California.

Why are you doing this ? The NTE replacements are in the same price range as the 2N2207s, but the replacement 2N2207s will probably have or develop another Whisker problem. 

[mnementh]

...   Can you imagine a Thread "Tell your IT-Helpdesk story?"

I am the IT helpdesk. Or actually, 3rd level something behind.   Yes, always bypass the network print server, go LPD directly. That's been true since 1993 or so.

I would love to have the 3rd level phone number! Some people like us need to be able to bypass the 1st level immediately...

There's a xkcd for that... of course. 

mnem
I always choose an image size based on some common multiple of 8 bits. Except when I choose 180 pixels; that's just to be deliberately inconsistent.

[mnementh]

There are some rumors about the new AMD µP line, from what I heard AMD right now is like the italian porn actor "Rocco Siffredi" when he was 25 years old...  is going to FUUU them all.
Apple M1 is still there. Intel RIP bye bye you miss the train.

Yeah they’re pushing 45W TDP laptops out which burn your dick off  . Rocco wouldn’t be happy about that  . AMD/Apple 15W.

Got to be honest though this i5-10400 desktop I just threw together is pretty good. Intel are still well placed on the desktop because there is stock, they are cheaper (!), have built in GPU which is good enough for most tasks other than games and aren’t crazy TDP (65W). Few observations comparing to my older Ryzen build:

1. Their power management is much much better. Suspend/resume is instant on this.
2. Boot up is much faster. Clean boot to login on this machine is 4 seconds.
3. Single core speed is about the same as a 3600.
4. Multi core ffmpeg compile in a VM is about the same as a 3600
5. Turned it on and it worked. No futzing or arguing with BIOS upgrades.

i5-10400 was £148. Ryzen 3600 is £179 here at the moment and I’d have to spend £50 on a shit GPU just to get it working. There are no Ryzen -G suffix parts available here at the moment.

Intel won this one. Probably because they have their own fabs more than anything.

Edit: attach inevitable build photos.

I'm sure you'll be able to flip that AssRock build for a profit to someone who doesn't know any better, once you get tired of Intel drilling into your brainpan. 

Or is this that "requested build" from a while back...?

I still don't feel I lost much with my 3600 build... I priced out with the cheapest possible off NewEgg (4-10 day delivery) vs my premium parts list off Amazon, and honestly, total ~$140 difference plus got Prime delivery. A similar Intel build was right in the middle.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Now hard did you  it Med ? More than 40V ? Woops, no that was the rating for the other 2. 

I charged a 220uf capacitor to 6 volts.

Hmmm, oh well at least you'll sleep better once the replacements are fitted instead of them blinking whiskers that might be growing. Bad as tants ! 

Lightning is AC. Pretty sure your cap discharge will be too, for some small fraction of its duration. Also, voltage multiplication from arc-welding inside the transistor's package.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Strange things happening with the world if Intel pushes things out the door cheaper than AMD.

Intel is misfiring on three cylinders at the moment. Charlie Demerjian is well informed...   https://www.semiaccurate.com/2021/03/16/intels-rocket-lake-cpu-shouldnt-have-been-made/

Indeed. That was the last turd in the pipeline I suspect. They ripped out most of Intel management over the last year so had to flush that chip first. I get the feeling as the now underdogs, they are going to unscrew themselves.

TL/DR:

Rocket Lake is a ghastly pig of a power hog that pulls more than twice the peak wattage of the 105W TDP AMD Ryzen 5800X tested by Anandtech. The i9-11900K is unlikely to pull less power than the i7-11700K but the Ryzen 5900X should pull little if any more than the tested 5800X. AMD wins almost everything at half the power...

So why is this CPU so bad? We hate to say we told you so but SemiAccurate did tell you so, in fact we did so here. What it comes down to is Intel took a 10nm design that was not intended to be process portable and backported it to their 14nm process. Those massive energy use reductions and claimed 2.7x die shrinks work both ways, think 2.7x die area gain and sucking wattage like it was going out of style.

Backporting Ice Lake’s CPU and GPU cores to 14nm is just stupid, there is no defense for it at all and the results speak for themselves. Intel should not have done this and the fact that those who greenlighted this turkey are still employed at the company is a bit shocking.

Honestly, I don't feel a bit sorry for them. If it takes a global pandemic to save your company from the obsolescence dungheap, you've been fucking up so badly for so long there is no hope for you or those steering the ship; you literally cannot fire enough management to fix this. Backpedal harder, bitches. 

mnem
 

[BU508A]

@mnem
I haven't forgotten you. I tried to create a new image with all the newest versions but it failed. The build script stops at 4% and I haven't found out yet why. I'll start another attempt this evening. Keep fingers crossed.

More TEA related:
ordered a Siglent SDL1020X-E electronic load from Welectron.


Ordered as well a digital microscope, the Andonstar ADSM302.


Now it comes the tough part: waiting for their arrival. 

[PA0PBZ]

Ordered as well a digital microscope, the Andonstar ADSM302.

I never regretted buying one, almost daily use!

[tonyalbus]

Ordered as well a digital microscope, the Andonstar ADSM302.

I never regretted buying one, almost daily use!

same here

[mnementh]

@mnem
I haven't forgotten you. I tried to create a new image with all the newest versions but it failed. The build script stops at 4% and I haven't found out yet why. I'll start another attempt this evening. Keep fingers crossed.

More TEA related: ordered a Siglent SDL1020X-E electronic load from Welectron.      Ordered as well a digital microscope, the Andonstar ADSM302.   

Now it comes the tough part: waiting for their arrival. 

You'll regret that one; for the same angle-of-dangle issues I had with my first one: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3368968/#msg3368968

If you're going to buy one of these little all-in-ones, you really need to be able to adjust the angle of attack on the objective; they just cannot get the objective high enough to be out of your way when you're working. The commercial ones are a different story; they have an elevator 30-50cm tall, and they will focus with usable magnification at that elevation.

No rush on the WinBoot image; Thanks for taking the time. 

Cheers,

mnem
*~Lessons Learnt The Hard Way~*

[mnementh]

@cyclin_al -

Check your PM, dude.

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

Ordered as well a digital microscope, the Andonstar ADSM302.

I, for one, expect a full report on that one when it arrives. I was toying with buying one a while back and gave up trying to make a decision from lack of a reliable source of accurate information on what they're actually like, especially to solder with.

[ch_scr]

That is why I built DIY microscope with ~40€ chinese C-Mount long-working-distance optic & "Allied Vision" industrial GigE camera.
What you see is about working distance. Yes, it is enough to do hot air without angled nozzle.
9V battery for scale. GigE does a fine job of 30FPS low latency video to the PC. Magnification is partially set by size of computer monitor
Allied Vision "Demonstration Software" is avaivable from Win x86 to Linux arm_v8 64bit. I tried running it on orangepi - just fine.
Only downside is said cameras are only avaivable sporadic on ebay for ~100€ for 1280x1024. But they are very light sensitive.

[tonyalbus]

Ordered as well a digital microscope, the Andonstar ADSM302.

I, for one, expect a full report on that one when it arrives. I was toying with buying one a while back and gave up trying to make a decision from lack of a reliable source of accurate information on what they're actually like, especially to solder with.

Does this help?


and in practice

[Saskia]

have an Amscope on a dual boom. One of those trinocular gizmos. I quite like it.

Discussed to put FPGA stuff to put on my development plan today, I should plan some time for training and on hands experience.

Let's see. New skills on company time are always good.

[Robert763]

Lightning is AC. Pretty sure your cap discharge will be too, for some small fraction of its duration. Also, voltage multiplication from arc-welding inside the transistor's package.

mnem
 
[/quote]

  Lighting is DC (static discharge) any AC seen is ringing induced in circuts.

(This is in my professional expertise and I'm not going to comment further on it)

[mnementh]

That is why I built DIY microscope with ~40€ chinese C-Mount long-working-distance optic & "Allied Vision" industrial GigE camera.What you see is about working distance. Yes, it is enough to do hot air without angled nozzle.9V battery for scale. GigE does a fine job of 30FPS low latency video to the PC. Magnification is partially set by size of computer monitor
Allied Vision "Demonstration Software" is avaivable from Win x86 to Linux arm_v8 64bit. I tried running it on orangepi - just fine.

Only downside is said cameras are only avaivable sporadic on ebay for ~100€ for 1280x1024. But they are very light sensitive.

Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' aboot. A lot more than I was willing to spend for my own random use, tho. The G1200 hits the sweet spot for "too cheap not to" vs "actually usable piece of kit".

I know Tony loves his G9... but if he tried the G1200 with its larger work surface and adjustable angle-of-dangle, I think he'd kick the G9 to the curb.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Lightning is AC. Pretty sure your cap discharge will be too, for some small fraction of its duration. Also, voltage multiplication from arc-welding inside the transistor's package.

mnem
 

  Lighting is DC (static discharge) any AC seen is ringing induced in circuits. (This is in my professional expertise and I'm not going to comment further on it)

Is Lightning Alternating Current (AC) or Direct Current (DC)? Lightning is transient impulse. Its neither AC nor DC but a composition of AC and DC.

The official definition seems to be now that it is both. I'll concede I should have said partly AC; for the same reason that the capacitive discharge in question will not be DC in a single direction for its entire duration.

You can have current flow for tiny periods in both directions any time there is an arc; blame it on ringing, etc...  it is still a real phenomenon we have to deal with. In this case, certainly more than enough to toast med's Ge transistor.

mnem