Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[vk6zgo]

@bd139 FTFY, fill your boots. Just look at all that pollution though, urgh.

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

[med6753]

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

Interesting. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

[mnementh]

Am I the only one here who's always had a ~50-foot 10-or-12ga extension cord with dryer plug & socket since he was like... 14 years old?

mnem
Everything that's fun needs 240V.

Surely you mean "needs three phases of 400VAC 50Hz" (We used to have 380V, and the UK had 415. Norway still has 220V, and most loads Delta connected. Like offshore and marine stuff. Then EU came and the compromise was 400V. Regardless, anything sold here needs to survive 10% overvoltage, so nominal 220V gear will be good to at least 242V, only the "heat globes" don't survive so long...)

Bah! Wimpy!
Back in the day, Western Australia had 440v between phases, 250v phase to neutral.

The "urban myth" held that this strange voltage was because, even earlier, the supply was 240 v, 40Hz.

When the frequency was changed to  50Hz in the mid 1950s, all the distribution transformers became less lossy, this increase in efficiency accounting for the 250v/440v figure.

I don't believe a word of that, but it is a good story. (the BS meter always pins when I hear this tale, so I have never checked it out)

LOL... I had no idea I was going to start such controversy. 

I was thinking "needs at least 240V"... but I did NOT say it that way, much to my dismay.    Of course it is much too late to go back and un-instigate now... 

mnem

[mnementh]

   

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

Interesting. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Looks like a DC3 mated with an electric shaver.

mnem
dammitt... I sold all my brain bleach back when I had that stand...

[mnementh]

3456A PSU re-cap is complete. It was a real hassle getting that 5 pin 4000uf C5 out but it finally yielded. The adapter went together and installed with no issues. Why it was decided to use four 1200uf in parallel rather than perhaps two 2200uf in parallel or one 4700uf I can't say. I do recommend mounting the adapter spaced above the board as shown to avoid shorts. 

   Back in action. No adjustments required. In truth none are provided for the PSU.

I thought I saw mention of it being to ensure lowest possible ESR from little caps with thin legs. Makes sense given the phat luggzz on the original part.

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

So I was striping a few useful / rare componets (20R presets!) off this 80's vintage PCB and noticed it appears to have a virus 

I've seen that before and don't know what causes it.

I presume you're talking about the wrinkling of the soldermask when wave soldering causes the roller tinning to melt? Well, that's not what Robert is talking about, take a closer look at the board. Look for a board name...

[Cerebus]

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

Interesting. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Doesn't everyone think that? Those old diesels are some of the ugliest vehicles ever built.

[med6753]

Look at this. Wrong side of the country. 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/redmond-pre-estate-sale-still-alive-but/7280914135.html

[Brumby]

Those old diesels are some of the ugliest vehicles ever built.

Let's not open that  Pandora's box.

[Kosmic]

Look at this. Wrong side of the country. 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/redmond-pre-estate-sale-still-alive-but/7280914135.html

Good god, at those prices I would rent a van and take everything.

[med6753]

Look at this. Wrong side of the country. 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/redmond-pre-estate-sale-still-alive-but/7280914135.html

Good god, at those prices I would rent a van and take everything.

It is sooooo tempting. But I would have to move. 

[mansaxel]

I presume you're talking about a GSR or similar class of router. Given the terrifying price tag on that kind of gear it's pretty shabby that they don't provide adequate overvoltage protection on the power supplies. For those not in the know you'll spend several thousand just for a spare one of the PSUs that go into that sort of kit. The prices are sufficiently high that the design engineers don't have to fuss over the extra money that even the most sophisticated, bulletproof OVP scheme would add to the BOM.

No, it was 6509's but yes, they should have OVP. I've mostly run GSRen from -48VDC plant, which is much simpler and thus inherently easier to keep alive.

[mansaxel]

I want a diesel electric car. As long as it sounds like a Deltic

If you can opt for Class 37 instead, I'm in!

[beanflying]

Look at this. Wrong side of the country. 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/redmond-pre-estate-sale-still-alive-but/7280914135.html

Good god, at those prices I would rent a van and take everything.

I see no problem at all

It is sooooo tempting. But I would have to move. 

So the only question is do you start packing to move before the trip or when you get back? 

[mansaxel]

Look at this. Wrong side of the country. 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/redmond-pre-estate-sale-still-alive-but/7280914135.html

O holy mother of hollow state! What a cache. Yes, it'll hafta pass for me. Let's just hope the phools and clockmakers too cheap to buy Dalibor Nixies don't get to it.

[Zucca]

Look at this. Wrong side of the country. 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/d/redmond-pre-estate-sale-still-alive-but/7280914135.html

We should post it in the buy/sell section and let the magic happen. I could imagine there is a good soul in WA who make the dream of reshipping true.

[bd139]

I want a diesel electric car. As long as it sounds like a Deltic

If you can opt for Class 37 instead, I'm in!

37’s are something special. One of my earliest memories is having the shit scared out of me by one thrashing it’s arse off at Highbury & Islington. Still on my bucket list to drive one 

[bd139]

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

Interesting. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Doesn't everyone think that? Those old diesels are some of the ugliest vehicles ever built.

That’s part of the charm. One day someone said “steam is going” and a great engineering effort took place to design and build diesel replacements. Most were experimental designs of all sorts of shapes and sizes which were designed and built by different manufacturers and pitched against each other. Only the fittest survived. The failures were eviscerated swiftly. They eventually evolved into the things we have today. What remains is entirely pragmatic engineering based decisions rather than anything particularly aesthetic. And quite a chunk of them are still running up to 50-60 years later!

Edit: the 37608 above is actually 60 years old.

[Robert763]

Am I the only one here who's always had a ~50-foot 10-or-12ga extension cord with dryer plug & socket since he was like... 14 years old?

mnem
Everything that's fun needs 240V.

Surely you mean "needs three phases of 400VAC 50Hz" (We used to have 380V, and the UK had 415. Norway still has 220V, and most loads Delta connected. Like offshore and marine stuff. Then EU came and the compromise was 400V. Regardless, anything sold here needs to survive 10% overvoltage, so nominal 220V gear will be good to at least 242V, only the "heat globes" don't survive so long...)

Bah! Wimpy!
Back in the day, Western Australia had 440v between phases, 250v phase to neutral.

The "urban myth" held that this strange voltage was because, even earlier, the supply was 240 v, 40Hz.

When the frequency was changed to  50Hz in the mid 1950s, all the distribution transformers became less lossy, this increase in efficiency accounting for the 250v/440v figure.

I don't believe a word of that, but it is a good story. (the BS meter always pins when I hear this tale, so I have never checked it out)

That makes perfect sense to me.
Just incresing the frequency will not improve transmission efficency much. You have to increase the voltage. Transfomers have a Volt/Hertz limit. The original V/Hz was 6 (240/40) the new one is 5 so the transfomer cores have excess capacity at 50 Hz even at the higher voltage. This will lower core losses a bit. The big saving is I2R losses in transmission lines and transformer windings. Initially the resistive load current would go up with the increased voltage but this would have reduced as equipment design was adjusted for the higher voltage. More importantly current will reduce in inductive loads like motors. This reduces losses but for motors the shaft power goes up due to the 25% speed increase. However to maintain torque on existing motors requires a voltage boost. Must have caused a few headaches at the time but worth it in the end.  240 V is 4167A/MW while 250V is 4000A/MW  This is a saving of 27kW for every ohm of 250V transmission line impedance. At HV transmission voltage would rise from (notional) 40kV to 41667V so at 1MW current goes from 25A to 24A  so saving about 50W per ohm in HV transmission lines (running currrents and resistances are higher).

[mansaxel]

I want a diesel electric car. As long as it sounds like a Deltic

If you can opt for Class 37 instead, I'm in!

37’s are something special. One of my earliest memories is having the shit scared out of me by one thrashing it’s arse off at Highbury & Islington. Still on my bucket list to drive one 

We were lucky enough to travel behind two of them when we took a heritage rail tour from York to Carlisle in 2018. The first leg from York was 2x Class 37 diesels, and then it was steam from Hellifield up to Carlisle. The thrashing through Leeds was memorable; lots of walls that reflected the sound back towards the carriages.

My early trainspotting years were mostly electric; all major lines in Sweden have catenary and diesels are very rare. I have, however, driven most of the engines commonly used in the 80s. a T21 German diesel-hydraulic (MaK diesel, Voith transmission) and a couple US-inspired diesel electrics, basically a GE diesel with ASEA electrics, the T43 and T44. Also a Henschel diesel-hydraulic shunter. That one was super easy, just a small joystick and very good control.

[med6753]

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

Interesting. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Doesn't everyone think that? Those old diesels are some of the ugliest vehicles ever built.

That’s part of the charm. One day someone said “steam is going” and a great engineering effort took place to design and build diesel replacements. Most were experimental designs of all sorts of shapes and sizes which were designed and built by different manufacturers and pitched against each other. Only the fittest survived. The failures were eviscerated swiftly. They eventually evolved into the things we have today. What remains is entirely pragmatic engineering based decisions rather than anything particularly aesthetic. And quite a chunk of them are still running up to 50-60 years later!

Edit: the 37608 above is actually 60 years old.

The first generation diesels here were EMD (GM) F and E units. They first entered service around 1940. IMHO a lot more visually appealing but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

They were slowly phased out over the years although some did stay in mainline service until the late 1990's - early 2000's. Surviving running units are on tourist railroads.

 

[bd139]

I want a diesel electric car. As long as it sounds like a Deltic

If you can opt for Class 37 instead, I'm in!

37’s are something special. One of my earliest memories is having the shit scared out of me by one thrashing it’s arse off at Highbury & Islington. Still on my bucket list to drive one 

We were lucky enough to travel behind two of them when we took a heritage rail tour from York to Carlisle in 2018. The first leg from York was 2x Class 37 diesels, and then it was steam from Hellifield up to Carlisle. The thrashing through Leeds was memorable; lots of walls that reflected the sound back towards the carriages.

My early trainspotting years were mostly electric; all major lines in Sweden have catenary and diesels are very rare. I have, however, driven most of the engines commonly used in the 80s. a T21 German diesel-hydraulic (MaK diesel, Voith transmission) and a couple US-inspired diesel electrics, basically a GE diesel with ASEA electrics, the T43 and T44. Also a Henschel diesel-hydraulic shunter. That one was super easy, just a small joystick and very good control.

Nice! It’s a memorable noise. I did west highland line up to Fort William with my mother in the late 80s. That was fun because it was freezing cold and the 37 hauling it was spewing black smoke. I think several people hanging out of the front coach windows got frostbite and lung cancer from that trip  . I was too busy with the floozies after that 

Very cool with driving the things  . Hopefully I’ll get to do similar next year.

[BU508A]

what are "floozies"? 

[med6753]

Nice! It’s a memorable noise. I did west highland line up to Fort William with my mother in the late 80s. That was fun because it was freezing cold and the 37 hauling it was spewing black smoke. I think several people hanging out of the front coach windows got frostbite and lung cancer from that trip  . I was too busy with the floozies after that 

Very cool with driving the things  . Hopefully I’ll get to do similar next year.

You were floozing with the floozies in front of your Mother? Have you no shame? 

I don't either. 

[CJay]

@bd139 FTFY, fill your boots. Just look at all that pollution though, urgh.

How come the Poms make great looking steam locos, but their diesels are all ugly as sin?

The delitc is particularly nasty, it's kind of dystopian industrial evil.

The area I live in used to be an industrial area, *lots* of heavy engineering and had two railway lines a couple of hundred yards apart, needless to say as stupidly irresponsible kids we played on the embankments and the abandoned station while the lines were still in use.

Having a Deltic bear down on you at dusk is f****ng terrifying, those windows when they're illuminated and the two 'eyes' lit, scary as.