Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Bargain find of the morning eBay auction: #324465690179 Retail price 30 years ago was less     

Is that even a soldering iron? Looks like a wood-burning iron; and at least on the ones made by Weller, they used a different thread on the tips.

mnem
*blerk*

Strewth cobber, I knew that Ozzie land was supposed to have been built up by convicts, but I never realised that they were still practising their trade today 

[tautech]

We're also talking aboot two different devices here; clutch interlock vs shifter/trans interlock. The latter has been common (tho evidently not mandated) since prewar times. Clutch interlock didn't become a required (and often bypassed by morons) safety inspection item until well into the time I was working at the Dodge garage.

Again; I cannot think of a single good reason why they would lie to their own mechanics aboot the actual reason for the change.

mnem
 

Clutch interlocks are a curse of a safety device .....hate them and disable them ASAP.
What dumb engineer thought it was sound engineering practice to preload crankshaft thrust bearings without an oil supply running. 
A superior interlock is on the gearbox detecting neutral.

[bd139]

The point is that Mirfield is breaking the law by selling non-compliant equipment.  No sure what you mean by "self certify" Ithe item must be compliant before it is put on the market. The only person who  can certify compliance (assuming it's not a notified body item) is the maufacturer, the manufacturers agent or the importer.

1. doesn't burn gaseous fuels
2. isn't a cableway designed to carry people
3. is outside the definition for low voltage (which starts at 50V AC and above)
4. is not a construction product
5. it's not to be used in explosive atmospheres.
6. it's not a civil use explosive (those sounds like fun though )
7. it's not a hot water boiler
8. it's not a lift.
9. it's not a piece of machinery
10. it's outside the scope of measurement instruments for items 1 and 3 in this list
11. it's not a medical device.
12. it's not an active implantable medical device.
13. it's not an in-vitro medical device.
14. it's not a weighing instrument
15. it's not within the scope of a R&TTE declaration because it's closed loop system not designed to radiate.
16. It's not PPE.
17. it's not a pressure vessel.
18. It's not pressure equipment.
19. It's not a recreational craft (if you lashed a couple of hundred of them together it might be)
20. It's not a toy. Well not in that sense of the word.

Ergo under CE at least it's exempt from marking 

[Robert763]

When I drove my first automatic the engine stalled at the first traffic light. It took me too many sweaty minutes to realize that you have to put it in neutral before you can start the engine again 

There must have been a problem with the engine then for it to stall. I have never known an automatic to stall its engine ever, so from that point of view they were safer.

You haven't driven many American cars from the 1970's and early 1980's, have you? Smog controls and carburetors. Stalling was all part of the fun. 

But thats just it, with an auto, there is no clutch, you have a fluid flywheel with a torque convertor so the drive train was connected via the fluid flywheel which would slip when the car was stationary in drive because there was no clutch. Thats just how they were designed to do, whereas a manual you had to press the clutch down to disconnect the drive train to prevent the engine from stalling. So with an automatic, if it stalls, there has to be a reason for it stalling as the oil in the flywheel / torque convertor forms the clutch and is only too willing to slip when the drive train is prevented from turning due the brakes for example being applied and thus preventing the wheels from being driven.

Just to clear up a few misconceptions...

Modern automatics  are automated multi-clutch manual gearboxes, they don't have torque converters.

They also won't start in Neutral, they have to be in Park.

The reason for the clutch interlock on a manual gearbox is to ensure the starter doesn't have to stir the gearbox when the oil is cold. This allows the battery and starter motor to be smaller, cheaper, and lighter. The apparent safety gain is purely coincidental, but makes for good advertising bullshit copy.

That is a dangerously broad generalization to make. It suggests that they're a crashbox manual transmission, when in fact they're multistage planetary gearsets. Also, torque converters aren't going away anytime soon, no matter how much proponents of the CVT may try and sell us on the idea that torque converters are evil.


The U760E in my wife's 2018 Rav4 uses a lockup torque converter; so does the Aisin AWF8F35 8-speed they (and half the rest of the world) are currently using when they're not still flogging the fucking rubber-band drive CVTs.


And then of course, we have the ZF8 family representing Euoropean 8-speed engineering... again, a torque-converter design. These are just 3 examples of "modern" transmissions which still use a torque-converter. Yeah, okay... they may call it something else... but that's what it is.

Torque converters as used in modern vehicles are fucking magic. The losses of the olden slushbox days are just that... the olden days.

Modern torque converters have near-unity efficiency when locked, and the way they get more usable power to the ground, especially when coupled to a transmission with a decently broad set of gears that match a motor's power curve, has made them generally more efficient than a manual for decades now, aside from the rare example of drivers using the most ardent hi-miler driving techniques.

mnem
 

THAT is also a broad generalisation. Maybe in the world of RWD barges but most smaller FWD autos are using DSGs (dual clutch & conventional gears) or CVT.

[Robert763]

The point is that Mirfield is breaking the law by selling non-compliant equipment.  No sure what you mean by "self certify" Ithe item must be compliant before it is put on the market. The only person who  can certify compliance (assuming it's not a notified body item) is the maufacturer, the manufacturers agent or the importer.

1. doesn't burn gaseous fuels
2. isn't a cableway designed to carry people
3. is outside the definition for low voltage (which starts at 50V AC and above)
4. is not a construction product
5. it's not to be used in explosive atmospheres.
6. it's not a civil use explosive (those sounds like fun though )
7. it's not a hot water boiler
8. it's not a lift.
9. it's not a piece of machinery
10. it's outside the scope of measurement instruments for items 1 and 3 in this list
11. it's not a medical device.
12. it's not an active implantable medical device.
13. it's not an in-vitro medical device.
14. it's not a weighing instrument
15. it's not within the scope of a R&TTE declaration because it's closed loop system not designed to radiate.
16. It's not PPE.
17. it's not a pressure vessel.
18. It's not pressure equipment.
19. It's not a recreational craft (if you lashed a couple of hundred of them together it might be)
20. It's not a toy. Well not in that sense of the word.

Ergo under CE at least it's exempt from marking.

It's an Electrical / Electronic Device so has to comply with the EMC Directive or UK equivilent when published.

[mnementh]

@robert763: CVT is not a transmission. It is a snowmobile shiv crudely adapted to the highway and buried in a oil bath to hide the ugly truth: that you are driving a rubber-band car. 

mnem
*agitating-ily*

[bd139]

The point is that Mirfield is breaking the law by selling non-compliant equipment.  No sure what you mean by "self certify" Ithe item must be compliant before it is put on the market. The only person who  can certify compliance (assuming it's not a notified body item) is the maufacturer, the manufacturers agent or the importer.

1. doesn't burn gaseous fuels
2. isn't a cableway designed to carry people
3. is outside the definition for low voltage (which starts at 50V AC and above)
4. is not a construction product
5. it's not to be used in explosive atmospheres.
6. it's not a civil use explosive (those sounds like fun though )
7. it's not a hot water boiler
8. it's not a lift.
9. it's not a piece of machinery
10. it's outside the scope of measurement instruments for items 1 and 3 in this list
11. it's not a medical device.
12. it's not an active implantable medical device.
13. it's not an in-vitro medical device.
14. it's not a weighing instrument
15. it's not within the scope of a R&TTE declaration because it's closed loop system not designed to radiate.
16. It's not PPE.
17. it's not a pressure vessel.
18. It's not pressure equipment.
19. It's not a recreational craft (if you lashed a couple of hundred of them together it might be)
20. It's not a toy. Well not in that sense of the word.

Ergo under CE at least it's exempt from marking.

It's an Electrical / Electronic Device so has to comply with the EMC Directive or UK equivilent when published.

Nope.

See article 2.2c. Amateur radio kit is exempt. This is amateur radio kit.

Edit: to be fair I think it should actually include that only amateur radio kit operated by licensed amateurs should be exempt as at least some hoops have been jumped through...

[med6753]

Well I found the problem with my internet speed and the issue is me. The old Netgear router isn't up to the task. Doesn't support 200mbps. The most I can jam through it is about 87mbps. If I connect directly to the cable modem and bypass the router I get 230mbps.

I have another older Netgear router and it doesn't support it either. In theory they are both 150mbps routers.

So off to Amazon. The one coming supports 1.2gbps. Ya think that's enough? 

[Specmaster]

When I drove my first automatic the engine stalled at the first traffic light. It took me too many sweaty minutes to realize that you have to put it in neutral before you can start the engine again 

There must have been a problem with the engine then for it to stall. I have never known an automatic to stall its engine ever, so from that point of view they were safer.

You haven't driven many American cars from the 1970's and early 1980's, have you? Smog controls and carburetors. Stalling was all part of the fun. 

But thats just it, with an auto, there is no clutch, you have a fluid flywheel with a torque convertor so the drive train was connected via the fluid flywheel which would slip when the car was stationary in drive because there was no clutch. Thats just how they were designed to do, whereas a manual you had to press the clutch down to disconnect the drive train to prevent the engine from stalling. So with an automatic, if it stalls, there has to be a reason for it stalling as the oil in the flywheel / torque convertor forms the clutch and is only too willing to slip when the drive train is prevented from turning due the brakes for example being applied and thus preventing the wheels from being driven.

The torque converter does impart some load on the engine. That's why when you put it into drive (or reverse) the engine idle drops. On those vintage cars, especially when the engine was cold, that was enough to stall them sometimes. 

Very true, but the engine should be capable of taking that load if its setup correctly, I used to have a 1964 Vandem Plas Princess 3 litre automatic in the 70's and that never once stalled or gave any problems in that dept. That was a lovely car, used to be a directors car at Peek and Feans, a large London based biscuit maker, and was chauffeur driven all its life until the chauffeur retired, and brought the car as he loved it, just a couple of years after retiring, he passed away and I managed to buy it from his widow, it was immaculate, leather and polished wood everywhere and very low mileage. 

[mnementh]

Yeah, back then, if it stalled when shifted into gear it usually either meant the timing was off and/or the electric/heatpipe choke needed to be serviced. The idle cam on them was crucial to driveability until a vehicle warmed up completely, which was much more than many people drove to work or the usual quick run to the grocery.

We won't talk aboot later smog designs with air injection and IAC valves... those things were an abomination. 

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Well I found the problem with my internet speed and the issue is me. The old Netgear router isn't up to the task. Doesn't support 200mbps. The most I can jam through it is about 87mbps. If I connect directly to the cable modem and bypass the router I get 230mbps.

I have another older Netgear router and it doesn't support it either. In theory they are both 150mbps routers.

So off to Amazon. The one coming supports 1.2gbps. Ya think that's enough? 

10 gig uplink, 1 gig to my PCs. Completely wasted as the landlord's DOCSIS 3.1 MODEM only has 1 gig ethernet ports, but it feels good to say I have it. 

mnem
*poot!*

[SilverSolder]

Well I found the problem with my internet speed and the issue is me. The old Netgear router isn't up to the task. Doesn't support 200mbps. The most I can jam through it is about 87mbps. If I connect directly to the cable modem and bypass the router I get 230mbps.

I have another older Netgear router and it doesn't support it either. In theory they are both 150mbps routers.

So off to Amazon. The one coming supports 1.2gbps. Ya think that's enough? 

Will be interesting to see how it performs in your real world tests! 

I've always found that even a good router cuts speed by about 20%, just for having to "work" the packets...

[Zucca]

the day I will have >1GB WAN in both down-up load I will think about redoing my home network with >1GB Ethernet.
Because that day there will be 1TB Ethernet for cheap.

[Specmaster]

Well I found the problem with my internet speed and the issue is me. The old Netgear router isn't up to the task. Doesn't support 200mbps. The most I can jam through it is about 87mbps. If I connect directly to the cable modem and bypass the router I get 230mbps.

I have another older Netgear router and it doesn't support it either. In theory they are both 150mbps routers.

So off to Amazon. The one coming supports 1.2gbps. Ya think that's enough? 

Welcome to the modern era med, now you need to update your PC and buy another one, connect them both to the router with Cat 6 and ensure that your PC's have 1G ethernet ports and you might just get that speed between the 2 PC's only. Some parts of the UK Virgin Media are rolling out 1GB internet 

[cyclin_al]

Well I found the problem with my internet speed and the issue is me. The old Netgear router isn't up to the task. Doesn't support 200mbps. The most I can jam through it is about 87mbps. If I connect directly to the cable modem and bypass the router I get 230mbps.

I have another older Netgear router and it doesn't support it either. In theory they are both 150mbps routers.

So off to Amazon. The one coming supports 1.2gbps. Ya think that's enough? 

10 gig uplink, 1 gig to my PCs. Completely wasted as the landlord's DOCSIS 3.1 MODEM only has 1 gig ethernet ports, but it feels good to say I have it. 

mnem
*poot!*

Completely wasted even if the landlord upgrades, I suspect.  What does the ISP provide to the landlord; 10meg I guess?  (which is much better than in the more rural areas, such as the capital of the GWN...)

[mnementh]

OMFG... I'm not even safe shopping for shorts a month after he's been kicked to the curb...     

I dunno which is worth... the fact somebody made these, or that at least 8 reviewers bought the fucking things...

mnem

[Specmaster]

When I drove my first automatic the engine stalled at the first traffic light. It took me too many sweaty minutes to realize that you have to put it in neutral before you can start the engine again 

My first car tended to drop into neutral - just after entering a junction and starting to pull away. Eeeek!

The engine oil became dirty, and the same oil was used for the automatic gearbox. Dirt confused the hydraulic logic

To my knowledge, no manufacturer in the history of ever has done this. ever.

Motor oil needs to be changed every 3K miles, and is not safe to use in the gearbox as clutch packs and planetary gears need higher shear-rated oil, plus anti-foaming agents which will burn the rings in an engine. Literally two different families of lubricant. This is why ATF is good for 60-120K miles.

4-stroke motorcycles, I've seen this; but they're just a wet-sump clutch. Different animal altogether.

mnem
 

Well you are not well informed. Austin / British Leyland did it on the Mini and other cars with the 1275cc engine. The manual classic Mini gearbox also shares the engine oil.

Yeah... that's not a car. It's a motorcycle with a roof stapled on.  And did they even have an automatic transmission on them...?

Also... shite engineering. Full stop.

mnem
 

Well I would not have suggested it as an example of an automatic sharing engine oil if they didn't make it with an automatic. 

The Mini was only in producton for 40 years so obviously a complete flop 

Yeah, it was a huge flop, so much so that BMW have revised and relaunched it again and looks doing another 40 years the second time around 

[bd139]

 
OMFG... I'm not even safe shopping for shorts a month after he's been kicked to the curb...     

I dunno which is worth... the fact somebody made these, or that at least 8 reviewers bought the fucking things...

mnem

What. The. Fuck 

Edit: dinner fail. My eldest just did chicken with a spicey rub. Did not RTFM and proceeded to flour, egg and batter it with the rub rather than lightly rub it on with oil. Thus we just got served 150 servings (!) of the rub on 20 chicken goujons 

Edit:m 2: Racal out for delivery tomorrow 

[Robert763]

The point is that Mirfield is breaking the law by selling non-compliant equipment.  No sure what you mean by "self certify" Ithe item must be compliant before it is put on the market. The only person who  can certify compliance (assuming it's not a notified body item) is the maufacturer, the manufacturers agent or the importer.

1. doesn't burn gaseous fuels
2. isn't a cableway designed to carry people
3. is outside the definition for low voltage (which starts at 50V AC and above)
4. is not a construction product
5. it's not to be used in explosive atmospheres.
6. it's not a civil use explosive (those sounds like fun though )
7. it's not a hot water boiler
8. it's not a lift.
9. it's not a piece of machinery
10. it's outside the scope of measurement instruments for items 1 and 3 in this list
11. it's not a medical device.
12. it's not an active implantable medical device.
13. it's not an in-vitro medical device.
14. it's not a weighing instrument
15. it's not within the scope of a R&TTE declaration because it's closed loop system not designed to radiate.
16. It's not PPE.
17. it's not a pressure vessel.
18. It's not pressure equipment.
19. It's not a recreational craft (if you lashed a couple of hundred of them together it might be)
20. It's not a toy. Well not in that sense of the word.

Ergo under CE at least it's exempt from marking.

It's an Electrical / Electronic Device so has to comply with the EMC Directive or UK equivilent when published.

Nope.

See article 2.2c. Amateur radio kit is exempt. This is amateur radio kit.

Edit: to be fair I think it should actually include that only amateur radio kit operated by licensed amateurs should be exempt as at least some hoops have been
jumped through...

Note the last part of 2.2C     

(c) radio equipment used by radio amateurs within the meaning of the Radio Regulations adopted in the framework of the Constitution of the International Telecommunication Union and the Convention of the International Telecommunication Union (10), unless the equipment is made available on the market;

"unless the equipment is made available on the market".

This provision allows radio amateurs (the intent is licenced ones but that is not explicit. However if you are not licenced you are a shortwave listener, not a radio amateur) to build their own transmitters and receivers.
It clearly does not cover commercial items.
In any case a VNA is not radio equipment, it's test equipment.

[med6753]

Well I found the problem with my internet speed and the issue is me. The old Netgear router isn't up to the task. Doesn't support 200mbps. The most I can jam through it is about 87mbps. If I connect directly to the cable modem and bypass the router I get 230mbps.

I have another older Netgear router and it doesn't support it either. In theory they are both 150mbps routers.

So off to Amazon. The one coming supports 1.2gbps. Ya think that's enough? 

Welcome to the modern era med, now you need to update your PC and buy another one, connect them both to the router with Cat 6 and ensure that your PC's have 1G ethernet ports and you might just get that speed between the 2 PC's only. Some parts of the UK Virgin Media are rolling out 1GB internet 

Nope. I've had no issues or lags with current 60mbps. My ISP was offering the 200mbps at a good rate so I went for it. I expect it to more than satisfy my requirements for a long time.   

[Brumby]

OMFG... I'm not even safe shopping for shorts a month after he's been kicked to the curb...     

I dunno which is worth... the fact somebody made these, or that at least 8 reviewers bought the fucking things...

mnem

Only in America!

[srb1954]

Thought is would be nice also as a reference.
Forgot to look, is has no outputs..
is works fine.. for if you want to messuere 24volts only 

If want to use it as a reference you could open it up and tap off the internal Kelvin-Varley divider but this will be limited to a quite low current loads.

However there must be something seriously wrong inside this instrument if it only measures up to 24V. The 893A should be good for 1000V.

[tggzzz]

When I drove my first automatic the engine stalled at the first traffic light. It took me too many sweaty minutes to realize that you have to put it in neutral before you can start the engine again 

My first car tended to drop into neutral - just after entering a junction and starting to pull away. Eeeek!

The engine oil became dirty, and the same oil was used for the automatic gearbox. Dirt confused the hydraulic logic

To my knowledge, no manufacturer in the history of ever has done this. ever.

Motor oil needs to be changed every 3K miles, and is not safe to use in the gearbox as clutch packs and planetary gears need higher shear-rated oil, plus anti-foaming agents which will burn the rings in an engine. Literally two different families of lubricant. This is why ATF is good for 60-120K miles.

4-stroke motorcycles, I've seen this; but they're just a wet-sump clutch. Different animal altogether.

mnem
 

Well, you've just gained knowledge. It was a 1970s Austin Allegro 1100, a truly dreadful machine.

[Cerebus]

When I drove my first automatic the engine stalled at the first traffic light. It took me too many sweaty minutes to realize that you have to put it in neutral before you can start the engine again 

My first car tended to drop into neutral - just after entering a junction and starting to pull away. Eeeek!

The engine oil became dirty, and the same oil was used for the automatic gearbox. Dirt confused the hydraulic logic

To my knowledge, no manufacturer in the history of ever has done this. ever.

Motor oil needs to be changed every 3K miles, and is not safe to use in the gearbox as clutch packs and planetary gears need higher shear-rated oil, plus anti-foaming agents which will burn the rings in an engine. Literally two different families of lubricant. This is why ATF is good for 60-120K miles.

4-stroke motorcycles, I've seen this; but they're just a wet-sump clutch. Different animal altogether.

mnem
 

Well you are not well informed. Austin / British Leyland did it on the Mini and other cars with the 1275cc engine. The manual classic Mini gearbox also shares the engine oil.

Yeah... that's not a car. It's a motorcycle with a roof stapled on.  And did they even have an automatic transmission on them...?

Also... shite engineering. Full stop.

mnem
 

Are you congenitally incapable of saying "OK, I was wrong, now I know better."?

[Robert763]

When I drove my first automatic the engine stalled at the first traffic light. It took me too many sweaty minutes to realize that you have to put it in neutral before you can start the engine again 

My first car tended to drop into neutral - just after entering a junction and starting to pull away. Eeeek!

The engine oil became dirty, and the same oil was used for the automatic gearbox. Dirt confused the hydraulic logic

To my knowledge, no manufacturer in the history of ever has done this. ever.

Motor oil needs to be changed every 3K miles, and is not safe to use in the gearbox as clutch packs and planetary gears need higher shear-rated oil, plus anti-foaming agents which will burn the rings in an engine. Literally two different families of lubricant. This is why ATF is good for 60-120K miles.

4-stroke motorcycles, I've seen this; but they're just a wet-sump clutch. Different animal altogether.

mnem
 

Well, you've just gained knowledge. It was a 1970s Austin Allegro 1100, a truly dreadful machine.

I'm pretty sure the auto box was only offered in the 1275cc "1300" and larger engined Austin / BLMC cars.