Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[cyclin_al]

Yep, maximum HP on the Civic is at 6100 RPM. That's all part of the fun. Row the gearbox and keep the rev's up. I don't do much city driving so down low torque to race from traffic light to traffic light isn't part of the game plan. Twisting roads and no traffic is where it shines.

And why the CR-V is so unsatisfying to drive. A 2.4 liter motor tied to a fumbling 5 speed automatic. And no ability to shift it manually even if you wanted to. It just screams for a 5 or 6 speed manual gearbox but Honda decided not for the American market because we're a bunch of lazy asses.

I don't think of it as rowing the gearbox, but a sport of finesse to always be choosing the optimum gear.  That alone will keep you warm on a cold winter twisty drive .... FUN 

By the way, is that Honda the Civic SiR?  I assume with a wing like that, it cannot be the basic model.  If so, that is the modern version of the Acura Integra SE.  Very nice car, I had the second-last Integra sold in Ontario, that is until it met a moose 

[Specmaster]

Detailed destructions are here in case you need help to make up your mind push you off the fence: http://www.diyleyuan.com/jc/L8Q.html

I'm already looking through my old quadcopter hardware bins for socket-head screws to upgrade it with. 

mnem
 

OK, quit pushing now, I’ve pulled the trigger, my eldest got me a Amazon gift card for Christmas so I used that to buy it with

[med6753]

Maybe on your vehicle... not this one. I've literally logged weeks at a time in both modes... as I said, unless I deliberately mat it all the time, the overall fuel economy doesn't change to any statistically significant amount. Modern vehicles all run in closed-loop mode all the time... even cold-start, nowadays. They do not switch out for any reason without posting a MIL and setting a code. That means it is burning clean, no matter which mode it is in.

This is not a Cayenne or somesuch that has an Economy mode just to satisfy emissions legislation and insurance companies... it's a pregnant Camry, FFS.  "Sport" mode increases the shift points aboot 200 rpm at the most, and it makes the shift firmer. Period. That little bit makes a lot of difference in how "tight" the car feels, and I'll make that decision for myself, thank you.

As for reprogramming the CPU... I've been doing that for decades, I still have my certifications from when I worked at the dealership, and I WILL turn off the seat-belt bitch-a-majig, and I will make traction control normally off if I feel like it. These are things you can turn on or off at a dealership level already; I just don't feel like paying them to do it on a car that isn't mine.

You are welcome to make these choices in your vehicle... as I do in my own.

Cheers,

mnem
 

Surely, higher RPM translates to more power strokes and thus more exhaust strokes and therefore more CO2 

When you mentioned cracking the CPU, I didn't realise that you meant tweaking the vehicle default settings using an OBD2 scanning tool, hell I have one of those and have made some dealer / user settings tweaks myself, such as auto-locking the doors when the car reaches 10mph, deciding if the daytime running lights auto switch on or not etc. I thought you was referring to remapping the ECU to increase the HP output etc, that is a big no no over here without first informing the insurance company of your intended mod and by how much so that they calculate the level of increased risk they will be exposed to.

As to the traction being OFF when driving on snow and its likely impact on you being covered by insurance in the event of an accident or not is something that I'm reasonably sure is true for the EU, seeing as the inclusion of such safety devices is an EU (I believe), instruction that every new car must have them, just the same as they must have daytime running lights fitted and although the use of an OBD2 device will allow you to turn these off by default (in fact you and even do that via a built-in option on the car itself in many cases), reading sections 6.19.7.1 to 6.19.9 on the attached extracted page from the EU directive, seems to imply that these must be left in default ON setting, at least in an EU country.

The same might well be true about the traction control (even though there is an internal switch to turn it off temporary) but I think the switch is only there to allow you turn it off for track events etc. Next time you start the car up, the traction control is automatically engaged. EU laws are different to US and Canadian laws, hence why I said that it might be possible to discover that the driver finds themselves devoid of any insurance cover in an accident if they can prove the safety device was overridden. We all know that if the can wriggle out of paying out a claim, they will.

DRL's are required in Canada but I'm not aware of any state in the U.S. that requires them. New York, for example, does not. The CR-V has DRL's as standard equipment but I disabled them simply by pulling a fuse. It saves changing burnt out bulbs every other year.

I suppose your insurance could get antsy if you get into an accident with the traction control turned off but I've never heard of any incident where that occurred.

It sounds like the EU is becoming a nanny state and I thought it was bad here.   

[Brumby]

Still waiting for my NanoVNA and TinySA to move.  Last event is described as "Accepted by airline" and that was 10 days ago.  Bought on the 12th.


Think I'll take up Glacial Studies to pass the time....   

[med6753]

Yep, maximum HP on the Civic is at 6100 RPM. That's all part of the fun. Row the gearbox and keep the rev's up. I don't do much city driving so down low torque to race from traffic light to traffic light isn't part of the game plan. Twisting roads and no traffic is where it shines.

And why the CR-V is so unsatisfying to drive. A 2.4 liter motor tied to a fumbling 5 speed automatic. And no ability to shift it manually even if you wanted to. It just screams for a 5 or 6 speed manual gearbox but Honda decided not for the American market because we're a bunch of lazy asses.

I don't think of it as rowing the gearbox, but a sport of finesse to always be choosing the optimum gear.  That alone will keep you warm on a cold winter twisty drive .... FUN 

By the way, is that Honda the Civic SiR?  I assume with a wing like that, it cannot be the basic model.  If so, that is the modern version of the Acura Integra SE.  Very nice car, I had the second-last Integra sold in Ontario, that is until it met a moose 

I wish the Civic was an Si. Sadly, it is not. It's a Civic VP which is the newer name for DX. Essentially a base model. Roll up windows, no sunroof, etc. And the base D17 engine with a 5 speed stick. About the only major option is that it does have A/C.

I bought, painted, and installed the rear deck wing myself.   

[mansaxel]

DRL's are required in Canada but I'm not aware of any state in the U.S. that requires them. New York, for example, does not. The CR-V has DRL's as standard equipment but I disabled them simply by pulling a fuse. It saves changing burnt out bulbs every other year.

<snip>

It sounds like the EU is becoming a nanny state and I thought it was bad here. 

Daytime running lights are a definite benefit to safety. I would never turn mine off. We've had that rule since the late 70s. And just before the auto industry made LEDs useful and approved, they lobbied for DRL's to be disabled to save fuel. The compromise was that rear lights could be disabled, to save, what, 20W. Which means that a lot of newer cars run around without rear lights. When the norm is that "cars are illuminated" that is an annoyance and a safety risk. Especially since "turning the lights on" is manual on those vehicles now. So people drive in dusk with lights off. 

The nanny state saves lives. All-round lights on cars at all times are a benefit, and with LEDs, who cares?. So, there.

[mnementh]

Yeah, DRL are something I agree with; it made sense when I rode on two wheels, it still makes sense when I ride on four. The wasted fuel argument was just BS; they wanted to get out of having to replace headlight bulbs when they sell you that 100,000 mile "Extended Warranty" at purchase. Fukkin' assholes.

That was just used as an example,  tho. Not really relevant to our discussion of tinkering with our ECU.

mnem
Still cheaper to buy off a few Congressmen...

[SilverSolder]

[...]
It sounds like the EU is becoming a nanny state and I thought it was bad here. 

This is all going to get a lot worse...  at some point, driving a car manually will be confined to automotive theme parks etc., roads will only be for use by AI driven vehicles... interfering with, or hacking these to go faster, will be a criminal offense.  ...   

[mnementh]

Detailed destructions are here in case you need help to make up your mind push you off the fence: http://www.diyleyuan.com/jc/L8Q.html

I'm already looking through my old quadcopter hardware bins for socket-head screws to upgrade it with. 

mnem
 

OK, quit pushing now, I’ve pulled the trigger, my eldest got me a Amazon gift card for Christmas so I used that to buy it with

            

I settled for a compromise that got me all black on the top and all silver on the bottom (which is clear Lucite), so it looks half decent. I also used some m2 threaded inserts as standoffs  to make it more convenient to disassemble to replace batteries. With the standoffs keeping everything square, that screw in the back case seemed redundant; now just the 4 screws in the keypad and the whole top lifts off. That'll probably be where I epoxy in a micro-USB for charging when I find a Li-Po that'll fit.

This thing has a few interesting modes... Aside from the usual calc mode and RC4/RC5 color decoder which was obvious from the keys, it also has a Hex converter and LED ballast resistor calculator function. I really like the looks of the BL 2x16 display; it's crisp and quite bright, and I've always loved that 5x8 pixel alphanumeric font. I also like that it displays all the results in this 2-line mode, using the same characters we use on our PC keyboards.

The oversized tactile switches make number entry very... tactile. It's actually nice if you're a hunt & peck user, but it'll get old if you're tabulating up long lists of numbers and trying to keep up a rhythm at tax time... also, others you may share space with will probably want to beat you with a rusty pipe, as the click is LOUD, like Cherry Blues.

But... there is a bug... and this may be a real deal-breaker...



Even with that gorgeous 2x16 display, the registers are only 7 digits on both input & output. I can understand not being able to handle a full 16 digit on that tiny processor... but seriously... 7 digits...? 

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a hexadecimal mallet*

[cyclin_al]

Yep, maximum HP on the Civic is at 6100 RPM. That's all part of the fun. Row the gearbox and keep the rev's up. I don't do much city driving so down low torque to race from traffic light to traffic light isn't part of the game plan. Twisting roads and no traffic is where it shines.

And why the CR-V is so unsatisfying to drive. A 2.4 liter motor tied to a fumbling 5 speed automatic. And no ability to shift it manually even if you wanted to. It just screams for a 5 or 6 speed manual gearbox but Honda decided not for the American market because we're a bunch of lazy asses.

I don't think of it as rowing the gearbox, but a sport of finesse to always be choosing the optimum gear.  That alone will keep you warm on a cold winter twisty drive .... FUN 

By the way, is that Honda the Civic SiR?  I assume with a wing like that, it cannot be the basic model.  If so, that is the modern version of the Acura Integra SE.  Very nice car, I had the second-last Integra sold in Ontario, that is until it met a moose 

I wish the Civic was an Si. Sadly, it is not. It's a Civic VP which is the newer name for DX. Essentially a base model. Roll up windows, no sunroof, etc. And the base D17 engine with a 5 speed stick. About the only major option is that it does have A/C.

I bought, painted, and installed the rear deck wing myself.   

Nice touch doing the wing yourself.   

[cyclin_al]

Yeah, DRL are something I agree with; it made sense when I rode on two wheels, it still makes sense when I ride on four. The wasted fuel argument was just BS; they wanted to get out of having to replace headlight bulbs when they sell you that 100,000 mile "Extended Warranty" at purchase. Fukkin' assholes.

That was just used as an example,  tho. Not really relevant to our discussion of tinkering with our ECU.

mnem
Still cheaper to buy off a few Congressmen...

Absolutely yes for DRL!  Problem is, they are only required on the front in the GWN.
I generally drive with lights on.  We get enough fog, snow, glare, night and other low visibility that it makes a good habit to always have tail lights on as well.
Also, some people forget they need to turn lights on at night since they have the feeble DRL illumination in front of them and do not realize they have a dark rear end.

I also like the EU rear fog light; one of the rear tail-lights goes extra-bright for extra visibility.  The other rear lights are normal brightness to be able to discern brakes and signals.  We do not have that here.

[cyclin_al]

@mnementh I also looked at one of these calculator kits last year and decided against it, however I may just review that decision to break the boredom up.

With regard to leaving the AT in sport mode, I have to oppose your view in that it makes no difference in mpg, it actually drags the mpg down to a lower figure, causes more pollution, and that is something that we should all be looking to reduce for the sake of the planet, plus it also makes far more noise pollution as well. My car has Driving and Sports mode on the transmission, and driving in sports mode, the car is still in 2nd gear at 30mph and around 2,500rpm and the noise level is much higher than leaving it in D mode and the transmission is in 4th at 30mph with just 1600rpm and the mpg figure is greatly reduced as is engine wear and CO2 emissions.   

Traction and stability control are always ON by default and I have only ever switched it off a couple of times and there is so much torque available that it is very easy to pull wheel spin when pulling away and also acceleration is noticeably quicker with it off once wheel spin has stopped.

Even in snow, I leave it in the on setting and provided you have a gentle right foot, no problems pulling away on snow. Besides over here our insurers are always looking for ways to avoid paying on a claim, that I'm sure, that should you have an accident with the traction off, that they would refuse to honour the policy, claiming that was a major contributing factor to the accident. As to cracking the CPU, that would unless you declared it prior to insuring the car and accepting a punishing premium as a result, render your policy null and void when their inspectors discovered it after an accident.

Maybe on your vehicle... not this one. I've literally logged weeks at a time in both modes... as I said, unless I deliberately mat it all the time, the overall fuel economy doesn't change to any statistically significant amount. Modern vehicles all run in closed-loop mode all the time... even cold-start, nowadays. They do not switch out for any reason without posting a MIL and setting a code. That means it is burning clean, no matter which mode it is in.

This is not a Cayenne or somesuch that has an Economy mode just to satisfy emissions legislation and insurance companies... it's a pregnant Camry, FFS.  "Sport" mode increases the shift points aboot 200 rpm at the most, and it makes the shift firmer. Period. That little bit makes a lot of difference in how "tight" the car feels, and I'll make that decision for myself, thank you.

As for reprogramming the CPU... I've been doing that for decades, I still have my certifications from when I worked at the dealership, and I WILL turn off the seat-belt bitch-a-majig, and I will make traction control normally off if I feel like it. These are things you can turn on or off at a dealership level already; I just don't feel like paying them to do it on a car that isn't mine.

You are welcome to make these choices in your vehicle... as I do in my own.

Cheers,

mnem
 

@Spec & Dragon,  you both make good points and where you have differences are things where I have seen both.

I have made reference to a moose in other posts, and from that experience I can certainly confirm that insurance companies will go to some extent to deny claims.  Their business is bean-counting after all, not looking after drivers and vehicles.  Here in the GWN you do not want anything than can be made into an obvious link (not necessary accurate or with cause and effect) between modification/modes and damages.

I have had an AT vehicle that actually got better economy and better manners when sport mode was enabled.  Economy and normal modes were the same as best I could tell including long-term fuel consumption calculations.
The current replacement for that one is quite the opposite; normal mode gets economy similar to much smaller vehicles (it will shut off half the cylinders when not needed) and sport mode increases fuel consumption by 50% driving gently.  Better results were achieved by parameters changing automatically when choosing 2wd or various 4wb modes, or by disabling the top gears.
My conclusion is it depends on the particular vehicle design.

Traction control is much the same in my experience; it is different for each vehicle.  I have done lots of informal experiments with pushing the limits of traction on a number of vehicles.
I do leave the systems turned on for regular driving; off for special driving occasions.
The 2018 Subaru is a surprise.  The traction control system engages almost the exact same time that I would take my own corrective action.  In most cases, the car does what I would want it to do.  The exceptions are where the car does what is appropriate if the driver had no winter driving experience and brings it down to a crawl (whereas I would be quite happy with a power slide in those cases).
The 2010 Subaru is okay.  I find that I take my own corrective action before the traction control system engages.  It engages and takes appropriate action if I delay my response and wait for it.  It is only annoying if I want an extended drift or slide, and then it spoils the fun and does what is expected.
The 2015 Dodge is sort of okay.  It behaves a bit too conservatively, which means getting going can be hampered by the system and it can drag the truck down to a crawl instead of allowing a reasonable amount of slip.  It would probably rate slightly better than okay for someone with no winter driving experience.
The 2010 Ford would engage only when already stuck in a snowbank.
The 2008 Ford would engage too late and might actually confuse an experienced driver.
The 2004 Subaru and 1996 Chevy have no traction control 

....snip

 Modern vehicles all run in closed-loop mode all the time... even cold-start, nowadays. They do not switch out for any reason without posting a MIL and setting a code. That means it is burning clean, no matter which mode it is in.

.....and snip

You sure about that? In order for closed loop to be valid the O2 sensors need to be at a certain temperature in order to provide valid data. That's why they have heaters to bring them up as fast as possible. But until that happens the ECU is in open loop running on default values.

My experience seems to lie in between.
The closest I have to a modern vehicle is the 2018 Subaru, which has 4 control loops that I have found so far.
On very cold start-up, there is an open-loop mode with a very rich fuel mix which lasts only seconds.
For a cold start or post-open-loop, there is a partially closed-loop with a slightly rich fuel mix which can last a couple of minutes up to 10 minutes from my observations so far (it is going to be the 10 minutes in the morning tomorrow....).
Normal closed-loop mode seems to depend on valid O2 sensing ahead of the catalytic converter and a minimum temperature at the catalytic converter.
The last mode is open-loop limp mode, but the fixed parameters are very different from the start-up open-loop.  I hope the ECU would not use limp mode for cold start-up; I have my doubts the car would even start like that.

[Cubdriver]

Yeah, DRL are something I agree with; it made sense when I rode on two wheels, it still makes sense when I ride on four. The wasted fuel argument was just BS; they wanted to get out of having to replace headlight bulbs when they sell you that 100,000 mile "Extended Warranty" at purchase. Fukkin' assholes.

That was just used as an example,  tho. Not really relevant to our discussion of tinkering with our ECU.

mnem
Still cheaper to buy off a few Congressmen...

Absolutely yes for DRL!  Problem is, they are only required on the front in the GWN.
I generally drive with lights on.  We get enough fog, snow, glare, night and other low visibility that it makes a good habit to always have tail lights on as well.
Also, some people forget they need to turn lights on at night since they have the feeble DRL illumination in front of them and do not realize they have a dark rear end.

I also like the EU rear fog light; one of the rear tail-lights goes extra-bright for extra visibility.  The other rear lights are normal brightness to be able to discern brakes and signals.  We do not have that here.

I have no issue with those if they're used in inclement weather.  What I do find incredibly obnoxious to the point of wanting to stop them and smash it out with a hammer is the twits who run it in crystal clear weather.  It's blinding to have to follow a car with what's effectively a bright brake light glaring in your face screwing with your night vision when driving on a pitch dark road on a clear night.  THAT should be a ticketable offense IMO.

-Pat

[tautech]

.....................
The 2010 Ford would engage only when already stuck in a snowbank.
...................

Fix Or Repair Daily ! 

[Cubdriver]

.....................
The 2010 Ford would engage only when already stuck in a snowbank.
...................

Fix Or Repair Daily ! 

Fecking Over-Rated Disaster   

-Pat

[Robert763]

Hopefully it will deter the 1 or 2 item overseas buyer who have been bidding stuff up to silly levels.

Not making any promises 

I'm still lusting after a rack mount DMM/DVM with blue dot matrix VFD...

Don't think there's one on the next auction... But if it's blue VFD you want:



Even from the company you're lusting after, unless I'm mistaken 

Right kind of display, wrong kind of instrument... I've no use for such, I'm afraid.

The Solartron 70*1 meters have nice starburst VFDs, but for a dot matrix VFD on a DMM I think I am looking at an Advantest 6581, Fluke 8845, or Keithley 2001, all of which would be well outside my budget.

I suppose a 7061 is a more realistic target.

I have a Keithley 2001  going cheap.   Needs work, leaky PSU electrolytics and the VFD inverter is missing. I've bought a set of capacitors but not around to fitting them or invesstigating further. Was going to knock up a 5V AC (squarewave with DC block) filament supply and uses a bench PSU for th 70V to get the display up for troubleshooting.

[BU508A]

Oh, I want one some all of them!   

Keysight SMU family BL2900B/BL




Low noise PSU! whoa.....   

[AVGresponding]

I have a Keithley 2001  going cheap.   Needs work, leaky PSU electrolytics and the VFD inverter is missing. I've bought a set of capacitors but not around to fitting them or invesstigating further. Was going to knock up a 5V AC (squarewave with DC block) filament supply and uses a bench PSU for th 70V to get the display up for troubleshooting.

I suspect our personal definitions of "cheap" are somewhat divergent.

In any case I really can't justify extending my repair queue; it's embarrassingly long as it is and as a key worker (if not a front line one), there is no prospect of long periods on furlough for me to reduce my shame.

[Zucca]

Keysight are like hot girls, whenever they dress up in black they are so sexy....

[Zucca]

I have a Keithley 2001  going cheap.   Needs work, leaky PSU electrolytics and the VFD inverter is missing. I've bought a set of capacitors but not around to fitting them or invesstigating further. Was going to knock up a 5V AC (squarewave with DC block) filament supply and uses a bench PSU for th 70V to get the display up for troubleshooting.

I suspect our personal definitions of "cheap" are somewhat divergent.

In any case I really can't justify extending my repair queue; it's embarrassingly long as it is and as a key worker (if not a front line one), there is no prospect of long periods on furlough for me to reduce my shame.

I have rebuilt mine K2001, if someone needs parts PM me. More details here

[med6753]

Keysight are like hot girls, whenever they dress up in black they are so sexy....

Must agree. 

[Saskia]

Robert,

what would you consider "cheap" for that 2001 ?

you may just be stirring some interest here.

[Brumby]

I also like the EU rear fog light; one of the rear tail-lights goes extra-bright for extra visibility.  The other rear lights are normal brightness to be able to discern brakes and signals.  We do not have that here.

That fog light is one thing that I detest!

I acknowledge their usefulness in the case of fog - but when the weather is clear, they are distracting at any time and can be blinding at night.

If I had my way, people who run with them on when the weather is clear and fine should be keelhauled.


/rant

[McBryce]

I also like the EU rear fog light; one of the rear tail-lights goes extra-bright for extra visibility.  The other rear lights are normal brightness to be able to discern brakes and signals.  We do not have that here.

That fog light is one thing that I detest!

I acknowledge their usefulness in the case of fog - but when the weather is clear, they are distracting at any time and can be blinding at night.

If I had my way, people who run with them on when the weather is clear and fine should be keelhauled.


/rant

That was only an issue back when it was possible to leave the fog light turned on for days if you forgot it. Current regulations (which have been around a while now) require the system to turn the foglight off when the car is turned off and it needs to be manually turned on again when the car is restarted.

McBryce.

[AVGresponding]

I also like the EU rear fog light; one of the rear tail-lights goes extra-bright for extra visibility.  The other rear lights are normal brightness to be able to discern brakes and signals.  We do not have that here.

That fog light is one thing that I detest!

I acknowledge their usefulness in the case of fog - but when the weather is clear, they are distracting at any time and can be blinding at night.

If I had my way, people who run with them on when the weather is clear and fine should be keelhauled.


/rant

That was only an issue back when it was possible to leave the fog light turned on for days if you forgot it. Current regulations (which have been around a while now) require the system to turn the foglight off when the car is turned off and it needs to be manually turned on again when the car is restarted.

McBryce.

It's still an issue due to ignorant inconsiderate twats deliberately driving with them on (mostly fronts granted), and incompetent twots switching them on at the first hint of mist.