Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Did anyone here win the TTI LCR400 on eBay after all then? I see that it ended up at £133.78 plus P&P?

[Specmaster]

Easiest way to put an Uber driver into orbit.

It does kind of make you wonder if the government decision to ban the sale of fossil fuelled cars after 2030 is the best move they could have made. There still seem to be massive strides to be made to make electric cars a serious rival. Sure they are clean in use (but about the manufacture as a whole + the shipping of parts around the world), fast, quiet, but what about the range and recharge times plus of course the sheer cost differences?

[bd139]

Oh it's going to be a shit show beyond all expectations. We don't have the power distribution infrastructure, our power stations are nearly all EOL and a lot of our economy depends on petroleum products.

The real solution is we need to reduce our dependency on travel not use electric vehicles as a crutch to carry on our bad behaviour as a species. Travel was an expensive luxury not that many decades ago and it will be again in the future.

My biggest worry is when, as always, we realise this too late and things get a little conflicty between people with resources and those without. America is the same and is going to suck balls without air con. Us, less so 

[mnementh]

Well, the good old Royal Mail must really be backlogged, as we've just had that unheard of thing, a Sunday delivery. Sent on the 5th, by the Royal Mail 48hr service it's only ten days overdue.

Just to annoy the Dragon - thinking back to his travails to get the same, what it was is a 1 litre bottle of fully synthetic ISO 32 sewing machine oil which came to the princely sum of £7.30 ($12.61 Canukistan Kopeks) including snail like delivery.

Don't forget the iPud glass... which took a fortnight to to go 7 hours' drive. 

I still have aboot 1/3L of that ISO VG7 oil; it looks to be a good non-staining odor-neutral oil very suitable to my 70-120,000 RPM quadcopter motors. This should be pretty much a lifetime supply at my age & risk factor.

mnem

[mnementh]

My local RM office do Sunday deliveries. It’s usually whatever they found left under something at the end of the week that is chucked in a van and delivered by some dude who drew the short straw that week or at least comes across as apologetic enough not to get stabbed by customers.

I suspect more likely chosen to be fleet of foot than anything; to ensure they can make the "run" part of "drop & run delivery" happen enough times before they're caught up that the shift manager can write the day's deliveries as complete. If s/he actually returns from the mission, well bonus. They can send him/her out on another Sunday-fun-day... 

mnem
*thinking back to that movie where it was revealed that Gus Grissom got all the shit jobs because the eggheads' psych profile said he was the one who could handle it*

[Neomys Sapiens]

Interesting test of a Toyota Prius battery under short circuit conditions here. There are subtitles in English.

When this video gets broadly known, Prius owners can expect to get their battery shanghaied when the fire brigade forgot their lifting bags.

[mnementh]

Well, the good old Royal Mail must really be backlogged, as we've just had that unheard of thing, a Sunday delivery. Sent on the 5th, by the Royal Mail 48hr service it's only ten days overdue.

Just to annoy the Dragon - thinking back to his travails to get the same, what it was is a 1 litre bottle of fully synthetic ISO 32 sewing machine oil which came to the princely sum of £7.30 ($12.61 Canukistan Kopeks) including snail like delivery.

Not only the Royal mail. In Country Oz in a town of 1000 Sunday Parcel here today too  New seat for my Hobie Kayak as my fat ass wore out the old one 

*goes out just in case that Priority Mail package from mom-in-law that's been AWOL for 2 fortnights decided to make a showing*

No such luck for da dwagon...

mnem

[mnementh]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

[Saskia]

use a beryllium casing around a Saturn-ium or was it Neptun-ium (I can't tell those planets apart) sphere ...

[Neomys Sapiens]

That is a shame. 

My inner tinkerdwagon is already mixing up the epoxy, and shopping for some 800-grit emery film & black epoxy paint. 

mnem
maybe CA would be a better choice with this Bakelite... and epoxy as filler...

Epoxy with finely ground Bakelite or pure?

[mnementh]

It does kind of make you wonder if the government decision to ban the sale of fossil fuelled cars after 2030 is the best move they could have made. There still seem to be massive strides to be made to make electric cars a serious rival. Sure they are clean in use (but about the manufacture as a whole + the shipping of parts around the world), fast, quiet, but what about the range and recharge times plus of course the sheer cost differences?

E-vehicles as they are now are a boon to the petroleum industry, not competition. They get approx 10x the carbon footprint of a conventional vehicle in their pockets up front due to the much more complex manufacturing process and the energy required to make them, [EDIT: The following percentages are based on my best educated guess from spending years reading all sorts of material on the subject... but they are just a guess.] plus as long as they keep a stranglehold on energy production across the grid, they get paid for the fuel to make the electricity they run on, which is approx 1/10 as efficient as burning the fossil fuel directly due to shite delivery of the eternally under-provisioned and prehistoric-technology power grid.

Our electrical power delivery grid will literally need to be 5x as efficient and half comprised of solar, plus incorporate mid-term and long-term storage we haven't even devised yet, before this ceases to be true.

Meanwhile, we can't even get our leaders to agree on a 30% reduction in greenhouses gases in the next decade... literally the smallest possible change that could in any way impact the impending ecological disaster.

mnem
and Henson's Dinosaurs TV show predicted all this nearly 3 decades ago...

[Specmaster]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Elon Musk has stock with cylindrical cells which are also liquid cooled ?

[RolandK]

Well, it seems that bitching and moaning work. After decrying yesterday that I hadn't picked up anything in ages I scored this


HP 66312A Dynamic Measurement Power Supply for £160 (£145 + £15 carriage) this morning. More than I like to pay, I don't think I've ever gone over £100 for an HP supply, but a decent price nevertheless.

I got one which fooled me with an oscillating output. After searching a week i learned it works as designed. It was a version for the telecom industry, which is so much speeded up, you need a damping condenser at the load.

[Robert763]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

Why do you think packs of cylindrical cells are immune to fire and explosion?
Certanly Tesla's are not. A model X crashed and caught fire. It then caught fire when being towed and again when at the storage yard. See NTSB report here
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40476579&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Factual%20Report%20of%20Investigation-Master.PDF

There have been other similar events.
The only differences I know between the two types is possibly a bit more empty space in a pack with cylindrical cells and the possible higher stress in a prismatic due to the corners.

[mnementh]

That is a shame. 

My inner tinkerdwagon is already mixing up the epoxy, and shopping for some 800-grit emery film & black epoxy paint. 

mnem
maybe CA would be a better choice with this Bakelite... and epoxy as filler...

Epoxy with finely ground Bakelite or pure?

My process with repairing this sort of damage is to collect every last sliver I can find, see how much can be jigsaw-puzzled back together, and from there decide whether assembling the parts dry and wicking CA into the crack or applying gel CA or epoxy then assembling, and in what order to assemble, is the better choice.

This pretty much depends on how the cracks occur and are willing to be pieced together vs much gap needs to be filled.

After that, I fill any voids with epoxy as filler, then the usual sand, prime, & paint with a high viscosity paint like epoxy or deck paint.

Very rarely, I get a break clean enough that it is less noticeable to dry-assemble the parts and wick CA in from the back side. With Bakelite, it is very hard to get a perfect paint finish due to how porous any break in the surface is; whether sanded or crack, any region that is not still shiny from original production soaks paint up like a sponge, requiring many layers of primer first to get a uniform finish.

In most cases, it is simplest to assume you'll have to do the whole "glue, fill, sand, prime, wet-sand, prime, paint" schtick than to hope for a quick simple fix.

Either that, or be willing to live with a visible repair, as I did with the crack in the back cover of my Simpson 635.    I looked, but I can't find any of my finished repair pics of that aside from the cracked-near-in-half leather strap.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Elon Musk has stock with cylindrical cells which are also liquid cooled ?

They're all liquid-cooled. That plumbing is run between & around the cells in the infrastructure of the super-pack.

mnem
 

[AVGresponding]

There's still no bid on that thandar SC110A I linked before.

Shh!

And one of these has popped up today:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Star-4503-Intelligent-Multimeter/164648701490

Add to my list now 

Haha, well good luck with both! I shan't be bidding.


I feel slightly less annoyed at being outbid on the 66312 today, as I just caught a 6633B (0-50V, 0-2A) just now.
£150 + £12 p&p, feels like a double win as I'd had an offer declined of £163 + £12 p&p.

It's a full width jobby, so I'll have to make some space. Could be the 7065 will be for the chop, might also swipe the rack handles off it to put on the 7075.



Oh yes, also *mumbles* I also bought a 54621D for just under £75 shipped...   

[mnementh]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

Why do you think packs of cylindrical cells are immune to fire and explosion?
Certanly Tesla's are not. A model X crashed and caught fire. It then caught fire when being towed and again when at the storage yard. See NTSB report here
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40476579&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Factual%20Report%20of%20Investigation-Master.PDF

There have been other similar events.
The only differences I know between the two types is possibly a bit more empty space in a pack with cylindrical cells and the possible higher stress in a prismatic due to the corners.

There you go putting words in my mouth, and then arguing them as if I said them. 

I said marginally safe. And you are blaming the cell type for a short-circuit-induced electrical fire. 

This crash was a Tesla striking a tree at speed, then rear-ending a parked gasoline-powered vehicle and the ensuing fire. This kind of crash could easily have resulted in the exact same kind of fire were it two gasoline-powered cars, and the danger of re-ignition is always a hazard with any MVA, especially a front-on collision. We routinely quarantined any vehicle fire for 3 days before releasing it to a boneyard when I was in the Dept.

It doesn't matter what type of cell; that much current driven through huge shorted wires at the controller is going to catch the surrounding material of the car on fire. It is obvious that the fire was in the front of the car, where the motor and control circuitry is, not in the body of the super-pack, which is underneath. The fact that the entire super-pack did NOT catch fire shows exactly what I'm talking aboot.

Even tho the HV breaker did deploy, that doesn't meant there wasn't enough damage from this particular crash to circumvent that; the super-pack extends into the front motor compartment, meaning there are portions of the super-pack which were exposed to that fire.

   

mnem
 

[Robert763]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Elon Musk has stock with cylindrical cells which are also liquid cooled ?

They're all liquid-cooled. That plumbing is run between & around the cells in the infrastructure of the super-pack.

mnem
 

Not just liquid cooled, heated as well. You can't charge them at low temperatures.

[Robert763]

Agreed, could you imagine the huge pressure those cells would be under when they are all clamped together as complete battery?

Yes, this is precisely why power-banked prismatic cells are such a unmitigated fustercluck. Worse, these packs' internal cell barriers sometimes fail first, which can lead to a daisy-chain in which multiple internal cells reach sufficient temp to burn rather than burst as seen here. Musk may not be right aboot much, but sticking with cylindrical cells will prove to be the only viable method to make such super-packs marginally safe for use by hairless apes.

Plus in the long run, the electro-boom & solar-power weenies will get a lot more salvageable cells to play with. 

mnem
 

Why do you think packs of cylindrical cells are immune to fire and explosion?
Certanly Tesla's are not. A model X crashed and caught fire. It then caught fire when being towed and again when at the storage yard. See NTSB report here
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40476579&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Factual%20Report%20of%20Investigation-Master.PDF

There have been other similar events.
The only differences I know between the two types is possibly a bit more empty space in a pack with cylindrical cells and the possible higher stress in a prismatic due to the corners.

There you go putting words in my mouth, and then arguing them as if I said them. 

I said marginally safe. And you are blaming the cell type for a short-circuit-induced electrical fire. 

This crash was a Tesla rear-ending a parked gasoline-powered vehicle and the ensuing fire. This kind of crash could easily have resulted in the exact same kind of fire were it two gasoline-powered cars, and the danger of re-ignition is always a hazard with any MVA, especially a front-on collision. We routinely quarantined any vehicle fire for 3 days before releasing it to a boneyard when I was in the Dept.

It doesn't matter what type of cell; that much current driven through huge shorted wires at the controller is going to catch the surrounding material of the car on fire. It is obvious that the fire was in the front of the car, where the motor and control circuitry is, not in the body of the super-pack, which is underneath. The fact that the entire super-pack did NOT catch fire shows exactly what I'm talking aboot.

Even tho the HV breaker did deploy, that doesn't meant there wasn't enough damage from this particular crash to circumvent that; the super-pack extends into the front motor compartment, meaning there are portions of the super-pack which were exposed to that fire.



mnem
 

I give up, you just change the "facts" to suit your restricted point of view. 

[bd139]

I vote we settle these arguments as follows https://youtu.be/Ggt9qKpbzxI

(Probably NSFW)

[mnementh]

I give up, you just change the "facts" to suit your restricted point of view. 

No, you're just angry because I actually read the document and had answers for your made-up argument. Enjoy life in that little universe; the rest of us live out here.

mnem
 

[Robert763]

It does kind of make you wonder if the government decision to ban the sale of fossil fuelled cars after 2030 is the best move they could have made. There still seem to be massive strides to be made to make electric cars a serious rival. Sure they are clean in use (but about the manufacture as a whole + the shipping of parts around the world), fast, quiet, but what about the range and recharge times plus of course the sheer cost differences?

E-vehicles as they are now are a boon to the petroleum industry, not competition. They get approx 10x the carbon footprint of a conventional vehicle in their pockets up front due to the much more complex manufacturing process and the energy required to make them, plus as long as they keep a stranglehold on energy production across the grid, they get paid for the fuel to make the electricity they run on, which is approx 1/10 as efficient as burning the fossil fuel directly due to shite delivery of the eternally under-provisioned and prehistoric-technology power grid.

Our electrical power delivery grid will literally need to be 5x as efficient and half comprised of solar, plus incorporate mid-term and long-term storage we haven't even devised yet, before this ceases to be true.

Meanwhile, we can't even get our leaders to agree on a 30% reduction in greenhouses gases in the next decade... literally the smallest possible change that could in any way impact the impending ecological disaster.

mnem
and Henson's Dinosaurs TV show predicted all this nearly 3 decades ago...

Where do you get "which is approx 1/10 as efficient as burning the fossil fuel directly due to shite delivery of the eternally under-provisioned and prehistoric-technology power grid." from?
A petrol engine is about 20% thermal efficiency, a Biomass power plant is about 45% (combined cycle natural gas is over 50%) so even allowing for 90% power transmission and 60% battery/motor efficiency that is still about 24% NOT 2% 
And that is not even considering regenerative braking, or non fossil fuel power generation.
You are just making stuff up . It's getting close to trolling.

[mnementh]

I vote we settle these arguments as follows https://youtu.be/Ggt9qKpbzxI   (Probably NSFW)

LOL.... no, I think I'm just going to go somewhere and do something productive. I really don't care what Robert thinks at this point; arguing with this guy is like trying to fuck a alligator: A whole lot of noise and thrashing aboot, and even if you're successful, no good can possibly come of it.

mnem
*SMH*

[mnementh]

It does kind of make you wonder if the government decision to ban the sale of fossil fuelled cars after 2030 is the best move they could have made. There still seem to be massive strides to be made to make electric cars a serious rival. Sure they are clean in use (but about the manufacture as a whole + the shipping of parts around the world), fast, quiet, but what about the range and recharge times plus of course the sheer cost differences?

E-vehicles as they are now are a boon to the petroleum industry, not competition. They get approx 10x the carbon footprint of a conventional vehicle in their pockets up front due to the much more complex manufacturing process and the energy required to make them, plus as long as they keep a stranglehold on energy production across the grid, they get paid for the fuel to make the electricity they run on, which is approx 1/10 as efficient as burning the fossil fuel directly due to shite delivery of the eternally under-provisioned and prehistoric-technology power grid.

Our electrical power delivery grid will literally need to be 5x as efficient and half comprised of solar, plus incorporate mid-term and long-term storage we haven't even devised yet, before this ceases to be true.

Meanwhile, we can't even get our leaders to agree on a 30% reduction in greenhouses gases in the next decade... literally the smallest possible change that could in any way impact the impending ecological disaster.

mnem
and Henson's Dinosaurs TV show predicted all this nearly 3 decades ago...

Where do you get "which is approx 1/10 as efficient as burning the fossil fuel directly due to shite delivery of the eternally under-provisioned and prehistoric-technology power grid." from?
A petrol engine is about 20% thermal efficiency, a Biomass power plant is about 45% (combined cycle natural gas is over 50%) so even allowing for 90% power transmission and 60% battery/motor efficiency that is still about 24% NOT 2% 
And that is not even considering regenerative braking, or non fossil fuel power generation.
You are just making stuff up . It's getting close to trolling.

NG is still a melting snowbank. It still is huge carbon footprint. It is still all the same greedy motherfuckers as the oil industry. Our electricity is still primarily produced by fossil fuels, and the efficiencies you claim are a tiny percentage of the grid overall. My 10X and 5X guess is just a guess... but once you actually do ALL the math, I bet it's pretty fucking close.

If you feel trolled, that's on you.

Thanks for playing,

mnem
No, thank you.