Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

If anyone is after a decent LCR meter there is this on eBay UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TTi-LCR400-PRECISION-LCR-BRIDGE-THURLBY-THANDAR-INSTRUMENTS/333853224095 It has some segments of the LED displays not working, could be a bad joint perhaps but it is currently still in production with TTi and sells for £809 so may be a bargain for someone?

Edit: Thinking about it, the display could be indicating a result etc under the SORT function etc or it could be just a artefact of the camera shutter?

Looks like a shutter sync issue to me.

Yes, it was in my watch list, and now I have to fight everyone else in TEA for it!   

   jk I expected it to go beyond what I'm prepared to bid anyway, and given I have the LCR819 I'm not desperate.


EDIT: Those dot matrix displays are truly drool-worthy. The only thing that could be better, would be a nixie dot matrix display...
   

You and me both, I know it will well out of my reach, that said though, looking at some on-line info and the manual, I think it is missing a special 4 pole connector and leads, something like what you can get for the DE5000, so as it is, it might not work?

[mnementh]

EDIT: Those dot matrix displays are truly drool-worthy. The only thing that could be better, would be a nixie dot matrix display...    

      

We had that back in the 80s... 70s... 

mnem
*agitating-ily*

ED: Forgot PLATO

[Zucca]

Re cars:
Never buy something after SOP or face lift. I always buy cars which were produced as close as possible to EOP. 
If you want to buy a new car: wait for the next generation SOP and get big discount on the old one...

[Specmaster]

Re cars:
Never buy something after SOP or face lift. I always buy cars which were produced as close as possible to EOP. 
If you want to buy a new car: wait for the next generation SOP and get big discount on the old one...

Quite right, that way they chuck in all the goodies for free, often in a special edition model

[Cerebus]

If anyone is after a decent LCR meter there is this on eBay UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TTi-LCR400-PRECISION-LCR-BRIDGE-THURLBY-THANDAR-INSTRUMENTS/333853224095 It has some segments of the LED displays not working, could be a bad joint perhaps but it is currently still in production with TTi and sells for £809 so may be a bargain for someone?

Edit: Thinking about it, the display could be indicating a result etc under the SORT function etc or it could be just a artefact of the camera shutter?

I might well have a crack at that. I've been looking out for a half decent LCR meter that's in the 'moderate' price bracket.

And yes, that looks like a failure to understand that it's a multiplexed display and thus needs a slow shutter speed to show all the digits evenly.

[Specmaster]

EDIT: Those dot matrix displays are truly drool-worthy. The only thing that could be better, would be a nixie dot matrix display...    

      

We had that back in the 80s... 

mnem
*agitating-ily*

Oh no, those Toshiba laptops were utterly horrible screens, I detested them, they used to make me feel sick. My farmer friend, sister had one of those and every now then I'd get a call to go round and sort it for her as she was not the brightest of users and nearly always managed to switch it off without  going through the shutdown procedure and got corrupted files as a result 

[Saskia]

@med fingers crossed.

[mnementh]

EDIT: Those dot matrix displays are truly drool-worthy. The only thing that could be better, would be a nixie dot matrix display...    

      

We had that back in the 80s... 70s...

mnem
*agitating-ily*

ED: Forgot PLATO

Oh no, those Toshiba laptops were utterly horrible screens, I detested them, they used to make me feel sick. My farmer friend, sister had one of those and every now then I'd get a call to go round and sort it for her as she was not the brightest of users and nearly always managed to switch it off without  going through the shutdown procedure and got corrupted files as a result 

LOL.... the Toshiba ones were pretty horrid... but the IBM and KayPro ones were fukkin' awesome. But hey... that literally is what the end-evolution of a nixie dot matrix display would be.

mnem
 

[Neomys Sapiens]

3 bloody hours lost because of a effing hook tip that should not even exist!
I have absolutely no idea where it came from, because there are no other probes than P6139 in the company lab. It was within reach when I needed another one today and it seemed to fit the probe. Hook actuation was ok. Except that it did not make any contact. Well, when directly compared, it was obvious that it is a different one, but not why it did not make contact. After that, I was ready to go home. 

One thing must be said, although. The engagement of the hook tips on the Tektronix 2.5 and 3.5mm probes could be more precise and crisp. It is probably another instance of sacrificing quality for a few cent. So one gets used to the sloppy fit of the hook tips and does not recognize the impostor.

[Zucca]

Yes, it was in my watch list, and now I have to fight everyone else in TEA for it!   

If it is a good deal there is at least one bastard here who will be your enemy.
I am sure in the past we have done bid battles between us, and evilbay is drinking the 10% of them.

[tautech]

As these are plain helical cut gears, not hypoid like a car differential, you aren't going to set the preload the same way. The process for that is different now anyways; while we used to have to calculate shim stacks and offset the pinion based on gear clearance and correct contact region, most manufacturers have moved to a much simpler single shim based on contact area between ring/pinion, then the actual bearing preload is handled with crush sleeves. It's been decades since I last rebuilt a Detroit Locker and had to calculate shim sets...

Anyhoo... you're working on a rovatti T-series, right? T-80 size or somesuch?

http://rovatti.ricambio.net/site/pagece5.wplus?ID_COUNT=ce_5_home&LN=2&CEPV=Rovatti001&CELN=2&MP1=CE_3062&NDS=CE_3062&PRC=|R|CE_3076|CE_2|CE_3058|CE_3062&PRF=4#CE_3062

I tried looking up the exploded view so I could see the preload mechanism; that will usually give you some indication of whether it is intended to have actual preload, or cold endplay. Unfortunately, all the pics are horrible resolution, and after looking at a dozen different ones, all I saw was models that use only ball bearings.

Thanks mnem for your insights.

Yes it is a T80 and the exploded view is shit and incomplete as it doesn't show the preload mechanism for the taper roller bearings on the pump (output) shaft. The input shaft are just plain old ball race bearings so add nutthing in terms of drag however the pump shaft bearings are an entirely different kettle of fish in order to withstand the lateral loads on the pumps shaft which are from 70 HP drive loading, pump impeller delivery reverse thrust....< those to some degree counteract one another* and 3200 rpm operation.
* yet the pump side Timken is larger so indicates it has significant stress on it.

Comments
No way would I put this together without some preload and to liken it to a hub bearing would be a mistake due to the rpm it's running at and instead of grease it's lubricated with HD EP gear oil.
It's likely we can check preload again after some service with out dismantling the pump head as we can access a portion of the pump shaft to wrap a string around it and check preload with the scales method.

However I think there's merit in your suggestion of some torque setting to the preload grubscrew as it seems the most logical due to its accessibility once the whole pump is assembled and there's a tiny locking grubscrew to fix the preload screw once its set correctly. Thinking out loud.....that's the most likely resolution to this preload puzzle as it's something that's piss easy to adjust whenever your mood says it need be checked.

Off to have a read of that nice Timken pdf. 

[mnementh]

If its any consolation... I haven't actually bid on a auction in years. If the BIN is reasonable, I buy; if not I make an offer. Otherwise, quite frankly... I can't be arsed with the level of BS involved anymore. 

mnem
Nice pants.

[Specmaster]

Yes, it was in my watch list, and now I have to fight everyone else in TEA for it!   

If it is a good deal there is at least one bastard here who will be your enemy.
I am sure in the past we have done bid battles between us, and evilbay is drinking the 10% of them.

Hey, I resemble that remark  But I don't need it or really want it as it doesn't do the most important parameter for me, ESR 

[mnementh]

As these are plain helical cut gears, not hypoid like a car differential, you aren't going to set the preload the same way. The process for that is different now anyways; while we used to have to calculate shim stacks and offset the pinion based on gear clearance and correct contact region, most manufacturers have moved to a much simpler single shim based on contact area between ring/pinion, then the actual bearing preload is handled with crush sleeves. It's been decades since I last rebuilt a Detroit Locker and had to calculate shim sets...

Anyhoo... you're working on a rovatti T-series, right? T-80 size or somesuch?

http://rovatti.ricambio.net/site/pagece5.wplus?ID_COUNT=ce_5_home&LN=2&CEPV=Rovatti001&CELN=2&MP1=CE_3062&NDS=CE_3062&PRC=|R|CE_3076|CE_2|CE_3058|CE_3062&PRF=4#CE_3062

I tried looking up the exploded view so I could see the preload mechanism; that will usually give you some indication of whether it is intended to have actual preload, or cold endplay. Unfortunately, all the pics are horrible resolution, and after looking at a dozen different ones, all I saw was models that use only ball bearings.

Thanks mnem for your insights.

Yes it is a T80 and the exploded view is shit and incomplete as it doesn't show the preload mechanism for the taper roller bearings on the pump (output) shaft. The input shaft are just plain old ball race bearings so add nutthing in terms of drag however the pump shaft bearings are an entirely different kettle of fish in order to withstand the lateral loads on the pumps shaft which are from 70 HP drive loading, pump impeller delivery reverse thrust....< those to some degree counteract one another* and 3200 rpm operation.
* yet the pump side Timken is larger so indicates it has significant stress on it.

Comments
No way would I put this together without some preload and to liken it to a hub bearing would be a mistake due to the rpm it's running at and instead of grease it's lubricated with HD EP gear oil.
It's likely we can check preload again after some service with out dismantling the pump head as we can access a portion of the pump shaft to wrap a string around it and check preload with the scales method.

However I think there's merit in your suggestion of some torque setting to the preload grubscrew as it seems the most logical due to its accessibility once the whole pump is assembled and there's a tiny locking grubscrew to fix the preload screw once its set correctly. Thinking out loud.....that's the most likely resolution to this preload puzzle as it's something that's piss easy to adjust whenever your mood says it need be checked.

Off to have a read of that nice Timken pdf. 

Hope it helps. Of course the impeller end will have a larger bearing; it's a large mass of iron spinning at high-ish RPM. (I don't consider anything less than 5-10k high RPM  ) and this is a trash pump, so allowances for crap sticking and throwing it off-balance have to be made, as well as the potential for deflection due to jamming. But that is nothing compared to the lateral load of a vehicle wheel.

As for the drive side... yes, the drag it represents is minimal; but the cogging friction of the gears will usually make it impossible to "feel" the roller bearings. If you can't get access to the correct procedure from the manufacturer, I'd still say that removing the drive side (if you can, just move the shaft enough to disengage the gear) and using my "rough hand" method would be your safest choice. That way you can feel just the bearing.

Cheers,

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

If its any consolation... I haven't actually bid on a auction in years. If the BIN is reasonable, I buy; if not I make an offer. Otherwise, quite frankly... I can't be arsed with the level of BS involved anymore. 

mnem
Nice pants.

That's what I tend to do these days as well. I used Gixen for the 1906 today but only at the last few minutes, I set my max bid and let it run, when I saw that it might go at a lower price than I expected, at one point there were 54 watchers on it. I knew that if attempted to bad bid live for it at the end, I might get drawn into a bidding war when the crimson comes down and logic flies out the window and as it happened, I won it for far less than my max bid. 

[tautech]

If you can't get access to the correct procedure from the manufacturer, ..........

Just chatted to the importers mech tech and it's real simple.....basically wind the grubscrew tight to bed everything into place and back it nearly right off. So minimal preload and regularly check it.

Almost what we deduced anyways. 
Preload chapter closed. 

[mnementh]

Yup. That was my guess; very little preload. I just have this thing for feeling my bearings...  maybe a bit unhealthy, I dunno.

Grand-dad taught me that your sense of touch is the best gauge in most circumstances. One of the few lessons I did take to heart. I do wish I'd taken advantage of the apprenticeship he tried to offer me when I was young & dumb & fulla cum; I might not have had to learn a lot of mechanicking lessons the hard way. 

mnem
 

[mnementh]

If its any consolation... I haven't actually bid on a auction in years. If the BIN is reasonable, I buy; if not I make an offer. Otherwise, quite frankly... I can't be arsed with the level of BS involved anymore. 

mnem
Nice pants.

That's what I tend to do these days as well. I used Gixen for the 1906 today but only at the last few minutes, I set my max bid and let it run, when I saw that it might go at a lower price than I expected, at one point there were 54 watchers on it. I knew that if attempted to bad bid live for it at the end, I might get drawn into a bidding war when the crimson comes down and logic flies out the window and as it happened, I won it for far less than my max bid. 

Yeah... that's another reason Gixen is your friend. If you set your maximum bid in the harsh light of day, with your common sense guiding your hand, Gixen makes it much easier to protect you from the worse villain on fleaBay: Yourself.

mnem
Friends don't let friends have buyers' remorse.

[mnementh]

mnem's Kitchen: Beef Bottom Round Roast



The usual suspects of chopped celery, carrots & sweet Vidalia onion play their part; plus my favorite Holy Trinity seasoning. As this is beef instead of pork, my favorite Montreal Steak Seasoning adds some muscle on this caper. The broccolis are just for me.

Ohhhh, the house stinks so goooood... 

mnem

[Saskia]

Tomorrow will be chicken / peppers in sweet caramelized chili sauce on rice day.
and another day off. Killing overtime.
End of Jan my new boss will tawk to my new boss boss about 3 things:
- giving me sufficient leeway and time to work on my fpga endeavors on company time
- broadening my sphere of influence and letting me arrange my stuff the way that I want it
- getting my old unix guru colleague on board permanently.
- they will also discuss ordering a new notebook for me. TP P15 or so.

fingers crossed.

[mnementh]

This morning we were awakened by our phones going off with an Emergency Broadcast notifying us that we are again in Stage 1 lockdown... sortof.

"Stay home, save lives, don't go out unless it is absolutely necessary. If you can work from home, you must do so; it's the law."

Of course, we wouldn't have this "emergency" if fearless leaders had stood up to the merchants' cabal and kept Stage 2 in place during the Christmas shopping season... the only difference here is the level of common sense of the average public is a few notches higher on the food chain. But only a few.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-addresses-confusion-about-new-stay-at-home-rules-these-are-the-answers-to-your-top-questions-1.5264068

You Might Be In Canada If...

...This makes the scroll on your evening news:  MANITOBA RCMP INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS TAKES OVER CASE INVOLVING REPORTS THAT AN OFFICER INTENTIONALLY HIT A DOG.

Anywhere in the US, that would read "...AN OFFICER INTENTIONALLY HIT A CHILD."

Saw that in a video posted in the link above discussing the perils facing our front-line healthcare workers right now... Just an indicator of the difference in the level of fooked-oop-ness between here and where we just escaped from.

mnem
*the lighter side of the Dark Side*

[Saskia]

sometime next week: Fried ramen noodles with cabbage, peppers, carrots, + any other veggis I can find on soy sauce.

[Saskia]

This morning ...

Of course, we wouldn't have this "emergency" if fearless leaders had stood up to the merchants' cabal and kept Stage 2 in place during the Christmas shopping season... the only difference here is the level of common sense of the average public is a few notches higher on the food chain. But only a few.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-addresses-confusion-about-new-stay-at-home-rules-these-are-the-answers-to-your-top-questions-1.5264068

You Might Be In Canada If...

...This makes the scroll on your evening news:  MANITOBA RCMP INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS TAKES OVER CASE INVOLVING REPORTS THAT AN OFFICER INTENTIONALLY HIT A DOG.

Anywhere in the US, that would read "...AN OFFICER INTENTIONALLY HIT A CHILD."

Saw that in a video posted in the link above discussing the perils facing our front-line healthcare workers right now... Just an indicator of the difference in the level of fooked-oop-ness between here and where we just escaped from.

mnem
*the lighter side of the Dark Side*

Oh, cum on, Canadia was the only place I have ever been to where they charged me as a crime victim 65 CAD for reporting the crime and getting a crime report that I could turn in at the insurance.

[BU508A]

If anyone is after a decent LCR meter there is this on eBay UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TTi-LCR400-PRECISION-LCR-BRIDGE-THURLBY-THANDAR-INSTRUMENTS/333853224095 It has some segments of the LED displays not working, could be a bad joint perhaps but it is currently still in production with TTi and sells for £809 so may be a bargain for someone?

Edit: Thinking about it, the display could be indicating a result etc under the SORT function etc or it could be just a artefact of the camera shutter?

Looks like a shutter sync issue to me.

Yes, it was in my watch list, and now I have to fight everyone else in TEA for it!   

Not from my side
I'm having a DER EE DE-5000 and I like it.

But, for entertainment reasons I've added (NAWTS) some links to (sometimes) very nice LCR meters. 

Zurich instruments - very expensive

This is a meta search engine for used TE (in Germany)

HAMEG HM8018 used and refurbished

Used TE in Switzerland sometimes one can find there real bargains

R&S HM8118 from AlliCE in Frankfurt a.M.

Alibaba has some interesting pieces there (scroll down)

Hioki is also very pricey but it is high quality

Enjoy!   

[tggzzz]

EDIT: Those dot matrix displays are truly drool-worthy. The only thing that could be better, would be a nixie dot matrix display...

PLATO computer terminal from the early 70s