Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Seeing as I already have extracted the actual "oven" lining with the element removed from the bread maker, I suppose I could try inverting it and placing over a small gas ring on the hob with a meter connected reading the resistance to ground of the element and put the gas ring on a low heat to get the element to dry out slowly and expel any moisture absorbed during storage.

Don't forget that the products of gas combustion include water vapour. So the element may actually have a lower relative humidity than the hot air + combustion products that you're trying to dry it out with. You may even make the problem worse.

I had a landlord once who tried to dry out a cellar with one of those portable gas powered industrial space heaters. He didn't appreciate that although he was warming the cellar up, he wasn't drying it out because he had introduced a new source of water vapour in the form of the exhaust gases from the space heater. He had the things running for a whole month and just made the problem worse.

I bet that cellar smelled like a dragon cave. After a all-night Chalupa binge.

mnem
*sniff-snifff* "Hmmmm... Smells like frustration and ass."

[mnementh]

...This element that pops the RCD, has now been plugged in to a variac and has been brought up to the maximum of the variac of 2A which it achieves at 165V (earth disconnected) and the leakage is such that even after 45 mins sitting at 165V and getting very toasty, I can measure a voltage of 87V between the metal work of the element and earth so its no wonder it trips the RCD, so it will be going down the dump when the lockdown is lifted 

Without benefit of the vacuum-ovens David was referring to, I'd probably have let it cook for a few hours before measuring; however, this case does clearly exemplify what I was talking aboot as far as "results are easily validated".

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

The amount of water is critical, and I've had to change it a little bit to get exactly the texture I like.

That's true for any bread type baking. A long time ago I switched to using "baker's percent recipes" for all my bread related baking. In a "baker's percent recipe" you call the quantity of flour you use "100 baker's percent" and then specify all the other ingredients as percentages - all by weight. So a straight bread dough recipe looks like this:

• Flour 100%
• Salt 2%
• Yeast (dried) 1.4%
• Water 65%

Yes, the numbers add up to more than 100% - we're dealing with Bakers, not mathematicians.

Once you start looking at the recipes like this the rôle of water in determining the characteristics of the finished product becomes really clear and you start thinking of the type of dough you need for a particular style of bread as a "percent hydration dough". Some examples:

• Beigels - 50%
• Typical English bread styles (e.g. Cottage loaf) - 60-65%
• Typical French styles (Baguette, Boule) - 70-75%
• Ciabatta - 80-100%

The hydration level you use has more effect than any ancillary ingredients or processes that might apply to a particular style of bread. You won't get pukka beigels without boiling them (ideally in a weak food grade potassium hydroxide solution), and you won't get pukka French style breads without using a Poolish (A Polish style pre-ferment) but if you get the hydration wrong but still use the ancillary ingredients/processes you won't get anything like the style you were aiming for. And yes, a 100% hydration ciabatta dough is 'interesting' to handle - one's first attempts will be more about cleaning up oneself and the kitchen than about baking.

[med6753]

Ugh bread making machines. I've a failed loaf here that someone made nearly 30 years ago with one of them as a reminder never to use them. I'll post a picture when I get a few minutes. Like my old Fiat, "nothing but aggro". Baking sheet or a can and the oven - job done!

The only problems as I see it with bread makers is that A. They are not generally large enough loaves for a whole family. B. The loaves do not turn out of the tins cleanly or easily and this is largely down to the mixing paddles being trapped in the bottom of the loaf and also because the dough gets under the paddle and also creeps down the shaft and then the paddle becomes wedged and holds the loaf in the tin.

This element that pops the RCD, has now been plugged in to a variac and has been brought up to the maximum of the variac of 2A which it achieves at 165V (earth disconnected) and the leakage is such that even after 45 mins sitting at 165V and getting very toasty, I can measure a voltage of 87V between the metal work of the element and earth so its no wonder it trips the RCD, so it will be going down the dump when the lockdown is lifted 

I never seen a whole house RCD except when I watched the British sparkies on Utube. I assume they are available here and I don't know if the latest code requires them. What is required is GFI protection of all kitchen, bathroom, and garage outlets. That can be accomplished 2 ways. Method one is a combo breaker/GFI for the branch circuits requiring them. But these combo breakers are expensive. Cheaper method is a GFI outlet first on the branch circuit and all other outlets on that branch are protected.

Most kitchen appliances here that have a heater, like toasters, coffee makers, counter ovens, etc are 2 wire polarized with no ground. In your situation above I don't think the GFI would have tripped because the metal cabinet would be floating. But as soon as someone touched the cabinet and formed an alternate path the GFI would have tripped. That sucks and I don't understand why those appliances here aren't grounded. Microwave ovens are.           

[mnementh]

Oh, so you do have hopes of a roadmap to monetizing this project somewhere down the road which doesn't violate the laws of physics...? 

You're doing better than 98% of us in here, if that's the case.

I guess I'm just easily excited when I think I see something really new.   

mnem
q͡χɑpʰ.ˈlɑʔ

If I can make this fly and calculate a business case I would be getting 40 - 50% of the savings of the first year after implementation.
Which can amount for quite a bit depending on the circumstances. Last time it was about 30% of my annual salary as a one off bonus ...

Definitely worth the investment, especially if you have time "on the clock" to pursue the R&D as opposed to having to do it on your own dime.

Like I said, q͡χɑpʰ.ˈlɑʔ 

mnem
*still trying to find a way to monetize my socks*

[Cerebus]

A little searching found a good used plastic film based replacement capacitor that fitted the hole spacing, the power lamp also got replaced with the only spare I have (the original had disintegrated), need to find some more just in case. And I re-terminated the mains lead as someone had soldered the wire ends.

I've seen exactly the same mechanical failure on two similar era HP supplies. I think this can be raised to the level of "stock fault" for that generation.

[mnementh]

IME the phenomenon is pretty global; not limited to [hp] in any way. I've seen it in all manner of electronic gear and appliances with NE2-etc indicators in a variety of form-factors.

Given that the weakening/crazing is always most pronounced right around the electrodes inside the bulb, I'm inclined to believe that it is a matter of ionized gas emitting UV which even at that low level must have some effect over decades of use. The fracture usually happens right at the bite marks from the zip-nut; that too seems pretty self-explanatory. 

Also, DAMN YOU! Now you've got me thinking aboot making some fresh baguette...

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

Also, DAMN YOU! Now you've got me thinking aboot making some fresh baguette...

I think it's an acknowledged part of my rôle here to make people hungry, particularly you and BD.

"Sausages"

[tggzzz]

The amount of water is critical, and I've had to change it a little bit to get exactly the texture I like.

That's true for any bread type baking. A long time ago I switched to using "baker's percent recipes" for all my bread related baking. In a "baker's percent recipe" you call the quantity of flour you use "100 baker's percent" and then specify all the other ingredients as percentages - all by weight. So a straight bread dough recipe looks like this:

• Flour 100%
• Salt 2%
• Yeast (dried) 1.4%
• Water 65%

Yes, the numbers add up to more than 100% - we're dealing with Bakers, not mathematicians.

Once you start looking at the recipes like this the rôle of water in determining the characteristics of the finished product becomes really clear and you start thinking of the type of dough you need for a particular style of bread as a "percent hydration dough". Some examples:

• Beigels - 50%
• Typical English bread styles (e.g. Cottage loaf) - 60-65%
• Typical French styles (Baguette, Boule) - 70-75%
• Ciabatta - 80-100%

The hydration level you use has more effect than any ancillary ingredients or processes that might apply to a particular style of bread. You won't get pukka beigels without boiling them (ideally in a weak food grade potassium hydroxide solution), and you won't get pukka French style breads without using a Poolish (A Polish style pre-ferment) but if you get the hydration wrong but still use the ancillary ingredients/processes you won't get anything like the style you were aiming for. And yes, a 100% hydration ciabatta dough is 'interesting' to handle - one's first attempts will be more about cleaning up oneself and the kitchen than about baking.

Sounds about right.

My background is that I like cooking and ingredients, and have been doing so since I was a student. But I have never and will never made a cake. I tried bread making a few decades ago, but the results were never good.

I now realise that is because there is a significant difference between a pastry chef / pâtissier and other kinds of chef: other chefs can get away with "that looks like the right amount", but the pâtissier can't!

[AVGresponding]

Ugh bread making machines. I've a failed loaf here that someone made nearly 30 years ago with one of them as a reminder never to use them. I'll post a picture when I get a few minutes. Like my old Fiat, "nothing but aggro". Baking sheet or a can and the oven - job done!

The only problems as I see it with bread makers is that A. They are not generally large enough loaves for a whole family. B. The loaves do not turn out of the tins cleanly or easily and this is largely down to the mixing paddles being trapped in the bottom of the loaf and also because the dough gets under the paddle and also creeps down the shaft and then the paddle becomes wedged and holds the loaf in the tin.

This element that pops the RCD, has now been plugged in to a variac and has been brought up to the maximum of the variac of 2A which it achieves at 165V (earth disconnected) and the leakage is such that even after 45 mins sitting at 165V and getting very toasty, I can measure a voltage of 87V between the metal work of the element and earth so its no wonder it trips the RCD, so it will be going down the dump when the lockdown is lifted 

I never seen a whole house RCD except when I watched the British sparkies on Utube. I assume they are available here and I don't know if the latest code requires them. What is required is GFI protection of all kitchen, bathroom, and garage outlets. That can be accomplished 2 ways. Method one is a combo breaker/GFI for the branch circuits requiring them. But these combo breakers are expensive. Cheaper method is a GFI outlet first on the branch circuit and all other outlets on that branch are protected.

Most kitchen appliances here that have a heater, like toasters, coffee makers, counter ovens, etc are 2 wire polarized with no ground. In your situation above I don't think the GFI would have tripped because the metal cabinet would be floating. But as soon as someone touched the cabinet and formed an alternate path the GFI would have tripped. That sucks and I don't understand why those appliances here aren't grounded. Microwave ovens are.         

Split load boards were one of the previous iterations of the IET's money making schemes, first in plastic consumer units, then in metal ones. The latest version is metal consumer units with every circuit protected by an RCBO (combined GFCI and overcurrent device).

When they run short of cash I'm sure they'll come up with some new idea that must be implemented for "safety reasons".

[bd139]

Also, DAMN YOU! Now you've got me thinking aboot making some fresh baguette...

I think it's an acknowledged part of my rôle here to make people hungry, particularly you and BD.

"Sausages"

Hmm. 874 calories and 52.4 grams of fat left on the books today. Sausages will fit in that 

[mnementh]

Bitches. 

mnem
*toddles off to take another crack at making breakfast sausage*

[AVGresponding]

Fish and chips for dinner here, but then I have been working out in the freezing bloody cold all day.


EDIT: Bagged myself a Keithley GPIB to USB adaptor earlier today, £68 + 5.

[mnementh]

   https://www.dailykos.com/blogs/Tom%20Tomorrow

mnem
*agitating-ily*

[Saskia]

say, did not a neutron star just pop up right next to Pluto ?

[mansaxel]

A recent arrival was this HP 6237B power supply

Congratulations to a nice catch. And a clear, obvious repair.

6237 > 6236 > 6205 > other dual-rail PSUen.

My Uni-T UTP3075 is longing to get a dual-rail companion..

[Cerebus]

I now realise that is because there is a significant difference between a pastry chef / pâtissier and other kinds of chef: other chefs can get away with "that looks like the right amount", but the pâtissier can't!

Yeah, baking is physical chemistry and demands laboratory style measurement, heat control, timing and repeatability. General cooking, which my biochemist ex-wife used to describe as "bucket chemistry", is more forgiving.

[tautech]

Ugh bread making machines. I've a failed loaf here that someone made nearly 30 years ago with one of them as a reminder never to use them. I'll post a picture when I get a few minutes. Like my old Fiat, "nothing but aggro". Baking sheet or a can and the oven - job done!

The only problems as I see it with bread makers is that A. They are not generally large enough loaves for a whole family. B. The loaves do not turn out of the tins cleanly or easily and this is largely down to the mixing paddles being trapped in the bottom of the loaf and also because the dough gets under the paddle and also creeps down the shaft and then the paddle becomes wedged and holds the loaf in the tin.

This element that pops the RCD, has now been plugged in to a variac and has been brought up to the maximum of the variac of 2A which it achieves at 165V (earth disconnected) and the leakage is such that even after 45 mins sitting at 165V and getting very toasty, I can measure a voltage of 87V between the metal work of the element and earth so its no wonder it trips the RCD, so it will be going down the dump when the lockdown is lifted 

I never seen a whole house RCD except when I watched the British sparkies on Utube. I assume they are available here and I don't know if the latest code requires them. What is required is GFI protection of all kitchen, bathroom, and garage outlets. That can be accomplished 2 ways. Method one is a combo breaker/GFI for the branch circuits requiring them. But these combo breakers are expensive. Cheaper method is a GFI outlet first on the branch circuit and all other outlets on that branch are protected.

Most kitchen appliances here that have a heater, like toasters, coffee makers, counter ovens, etc are 2 wire polarized with no ground. In your situation above I don't think the GFI would have tripped because the metal cabinet would be floating. But as soon as someone touched the cabinet and formed an alternate path the GFI would have tripped. That sucks and I don't understand why those appliances here aren't grounded. Microwave ovens are.         

Split load boards were one of the previous iterations of the IET's money making schemes, first in plastic consumer units, then in metal ones. The latest version is metal consumer units with every circuit protected by an RCBO (combined GFCI and overcurrent device).

When they run short of cash I'm sure they'll come up with some new idea that must be implemented for "safety reasons".

Nailed it !

Some modern regs are just daft. FFS I live in a 100 yr old house that was retrofitted with power in 1935 when power first came to these parts. Pop was just a lad and said he could remember when incandesant lights were fitted where he grew up which is 100yds from where I am.

In the nearly 40yrs being here not once has there been a need for RCD protection and we're all still alive and the 3 kids we raised also.
No RCD BS here !

[Robert763]

Washington DC right now

[mansaxel]

Nice score; finding one with the caps still on the knobs. 

Gonna find a replacement NE2 indicator, or epoxy the original back together...? I've done both.

mnem
 

I'm a bit surprized the HP 6237B didn't go for more considering all the knobs were complete.

I should have been clearer, it's the plastic housing that has disintegrated not the lamp, it's crazed with cracks all over so I decided against gluing it and fitted a used spare instead, the part number is 2910S17 (replacement is 2910S21) with an external resistor.
Forgot to take a finished picture. 

David

Mouser 607-2150QA3 is a working replacement. The dome is not as frosted as the original, but in all other aspects the lamp and fitting is identical.  My 6206 has been fitted with one, with great success.

As to gluing, well, the neon carries half the mains voltage here in Europe, and all of it in Northern America. I am not very comfortable with harnessing such potential in cracked and glued aged plastics. (I do not object to the fitting of a in-spec NOS or used part, to be clear.)

The quoted part is clearly the successor to the -hp- fitted part and as such is the proper replacement for a piece of TE that continues to serve.

[Robert763]

<SNIP>

When they run short of cash I'm sure they'll come up with some new idea that must be implemented for "safety reasons".[/color][/size][/b]

Nailed it !

Some modern regs are just daft. FFS I live in a 100 yr old house that was retrofitted with power in 1935 when power first came to these parts. Pop was just a lad and said he could remember when incandesant lights were fitted where he grew up which is 100yds from where I am.

In the nearly 40yrs being here not once has there been a need for RCD protection and we're all still alive and the 3 kids we raised also.
[/quote]

if you have never tripped a GFI you haven't worked on enough old TEA 

[tautech]

Since it's been rare for me, I'm taking the opportunity to report a new addition to the addiction.
Siglent SPD3303X-E, that might lose the 'E' one of these days.

Do it ! Do it !
Recommended mod. 

[Cerebus]

   https://www.dailykos.com/blogs/Tom%20Tomorrow

mnem
*agitating-ily*

Yeah, err, sorry guys. That fourth panel may be my fault. I had a coughing fit earlier and may accidentally have invoked the Great Old Ones to arise and devour the Earth. Again, apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.

"Nafl'fhtagn throdog r'luhhor ng."

[Specmaster]

Guys, all hell is going on in Washington DC right now, Trump supporters have broken into Capital Building live feed is on the YT

 

[tautech]

<SNIP>

When they run short of cash I'm sure they'll come up with some new idea that must be implemented for "safety reasons".[/color][/size][/b]

Nailed it !

Some modern regs are just daft. FFS I live in a 100 yr old house that was retrofitted with power in 1935 when power first came to these parts. Pop was just a lad and said he could remember when incandesant lights were fitted where he grew up which is 100yds from where I am.

In the nearly 40yrs being here not once has there been a need for RCD protection and we're all still alive and the 3 kids we raised also.

if you have never tripped a GFI you haven't worked on enough old TEA 

Ya reckon.
This made the TEA POI list: