Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Here's an example of a schematic I drew up for my own use. The notes specify for example resistor parameters and specifically that "K" means 1000.

Why not "k=1000"? I can think of places in a PSU where you might have both "M" and "m". (Bleed resistors or startup circuits, current sensing)

If you are going to use non-standard units, why not go the whole hog? For resistance you could use a "Siemens mercury unit", "Ohmad" , "Digney", "Breguet", "Swiss", "Matthiessen", "Varley", "German mile", "Abohm", "Statohm". For capacitance, Jars is an obvious alternative. Etc.

I am simply copying what apparently has been a standard here in the U.S. which for some reason you guys in Europe get all pissy and whiny whenever I mention it. I looked at schematics from Tek, HP, Fluke, Heath, etc and EVERYONE expresses UC K as 1000. The latest schematics I have dated in 1990's for the Fluke 87 have resistors expressed as, for example, 2.2K. Now I understand and accept that UC K also is for Kelvin. But over here it also stood for multiplier 1000. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's the way it was. I can't tell you if it's still used that way or not because we can't get schematics anymore. And as I keep mentioning...any draftsman worth his salt will have notes indicating what the specific symbology means. So I ask you...if that's done and it's understood what's the big fucking deal?   

Yeah, I agree with you there.^* Degrees Kelvin vs Kilo-whatever is pretty easy to clarify to near-zero ambiguity. If it has a ° in front of it, it's Kelvin, Farenheit, or Celsius to the point of statistical insignificance; use K/F/C per the relevant scale. But DON'T use KFC; you'll get chicken-fat on everything.

K vs k really is a nit that does not need further picking; it's been done to death and common usage takes precedence. Language is a living thing; deal with it.

mnem
^{* mark this day on yer calendar folks!} 

[med6753]

Is it too early in the morning to start drinking? 

I think not. 

[mnementh]

   

Electrocuted means killed by means of electric shock. You're wearing this in the coffin?

That's a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunately misuse particularly on-line has normalized electrocution to mean electric shock, not death by electricity. Seems to have started in the USA. Then again I'm a pedantic sod.

electrocute: verb

elec·​tro·​cute | \ i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt
\
electrocuted; electrocuting

Definition of electrocute

transitive verb
1 : to kill or severely injure by electric shock

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute


Oxford Languages as used by Google agrees:



mnem
Living Language, tra-la-la!!!

[bd139]

I have a pet hate with Electronics books, and that's poor rigour the moment they get anywhere near Mathematics. I've got a book on transformers et al. that you have to keep referring to the cheat sheet inside the front (not easy on a pdf) because they completely fail to use any reiteration of what symbol they are using for what anywhere the the piles of now impenetrable equations. A competent Mathematician will always bracket their equations with a "Given <list of symbols and their meanings>" and "where <list of symbols and their meanings>" set of rigorous expalnation of what they are manipulating.

Oooh don't me started on that. The ARRL handbook really sets off my coprophobia.

See attachment 

[nixiefreqq]

hey med

you have probably already seen this one.   

if not.......don't look. 

it will upset you.

https://winchester.craigslist.org/ele/d/winchester-two-vintage-oscilloscope/7240228122.html

[med6753]

electrocute: verb

elec·​tro·​cute | \ i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt
\
electrocuted; electrocuting

Definition of electrocute

transitive verb
1 : to kill or severely injure by electric shock

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute


Oxford Languages as used by Google agrees:



mnem
Living Language, tra-la-la!!!

Let's you and me take a trip to Boston and throw some tea in the harbor. 

[Cerebus]

Is it too early in the morning to start drinking? 

I think not. 

If you've just got up, yes. If you haven't been to bed, no.

[mnementh]

electrocute: verb

elec·​tro·​cute | \ i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt
\
electrocuted; electrocuting

Definition of electrocute

transitive verb
1 : to kill or severely injure by electric shock

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute


Oxford Languages as used by Google agrees:   

mnem
Living Language, tra-la-la!!!

Let's you and me take a trip to Boston and throw some tea in the harbor. 

And afterwards... PUB CRAWLLLL!!!   

Is it too early in the morning to start drinking?     I think not. 

I love a nip of Frangelico with my blueberry waffles, bacon & eggs... a near-perfect flavor combination, and it makes the whole world simply beautiful for the rest of the morning.

mnem
Alternately, I'm sure it is 4:20 somewhere. Almost. Well, good enough...

[med6753]

hey med

you have probably already seen this one.   

if not.......don't look. 

it will upset you.

https://winchester.craigslist.org/ele/d/winchester-two-vintage-oscilloscope/7240228122.html

Thanks for the heads up. It's way too far. In Maryland.

Kept dry? Compared to what? Sitting at the bottom of a lake? 

[Cerebus]

Let's you and me take a trip to Boston and throw some tea in the harbor. 

Make sure you use China tea, not Indian. (1) Boston Harbour water is wrong for Indian tea, (2) You'll help out the government by paying a huge tariff on it. Remember: the milk goes in afterward.

[mnementh]

hey med you have probably already seen this one.   if not.......don't look. it will upset you.   https://winchester.craigslist.org/ele/d/winchester-two-vintage-oscilloscope/7240228122.html

Thanks for the heads up. It's way too far. In Maryland.   Kept dry? Compared to what? Sitting at the bottom of a lake? 

Ehhh... still a fair price. Pretty obvious it hasn't been opened in decades; seems a decent chance the original choobs are still in there, plus there have to be a few salvageable parts parts to fix a more worthy specimen. Plus, if nothing else you can turn the one from De Vry into a clock.

The road trip      would just be the beginning of the fun... there's weeks of puttering just a-lurking in those two little boxes of damifino...

mnem
*agitating-ily* 

[BU508A]

Electrocuted means killed by means of electric shock. You're wearing this in the coffin?

Of course not! My colour to go is black.

[mnementh]

I have a pet hate with Electronics books, and that's poor rigour the moment they get anywhere near Mathematics. I've got a book on transformers et al. that you have to keep referring to the cheat sheet inside the front (not easy on a pdf) because they completely fail to use any reiteration of what symbol they are using for what anywhere the the piles of now impenetrable equations. A competent Mathematician will always bracket their equations with a "Given <list of symbols and their meanings>" and "where <list of symbols and their meanings>" set of rigorous expalnation of what they are manipulating.

   Oooh don't me started on that. The ARRL handbook really sets off my coprophobia. 

What...?    I read that denominator as 18 x diameter + 40 ℓiters of the local brew... makes perfect sense, especially given the source. 

mnem
 

[mnementh]

   

   Electrocuted means killed by means of electric shock. You're wearing this in the coffin?

That's a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunatly misuse particuarly on-line has normallised electrocution to mean electric shock, not death by electricity. Seems to have started in the USA. Then again I'm a pedntic sod.

Is this blame America for everything week? I seem to have missed the memo. 

No, I got mine; it was written on the back of these slices of bacon... 

*SNURRRRCH!-Chommmmp!*

Mmmokayyy... I was saving that memo for a BLT at lunch, but whatevs. I'll just have to get carryout. Maybe some Thai chicken...

mnem
Damn... that old smurf can move when he wants to...

[vk6zgo]

Here's an example of a schematic I drew up for my own use. The notes specify for example resistor parameters and specifically that "K" means 1000.

Why not "k=1000"? I can think of places in a PSU where you might have both "M" and "m". (Bleed resistors or startup circuits, current sensing)

If you are going to use non-standard units, why not go the whole hog? For resistance you could use a "Siemens mercury unit", "Ohmad" , "Digney", "Breguet", "Swiss", "Matthiessen", "Varley", "German mile", "Abohm", "Statohm". For capacitance, Jars is an obvious alternative. Etc.

I am simply copying what apparently has been a standard here in the U.S. which for some reason you guys in Europe get all pissy and whiny whenever I mention it. I looked at schematics from Tek, HP, Fluke, Heath, etc and EVERYONE expresses UC K as 1000. The latest schematics I have dated in 1990's for the Fluke 87 have resistors expressed as, for example, 2.2K. Now I understand and accept that UC K also is for Kelvin. But over here it also stood for multiplier 1000. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's the way it was. I can't tell you if it's still used that way or not because we can't get schematics anymore. And as I keep mentioning...any draftsman worth his salt will have notes indicating what the specific symbology means. So I ask you...if that's done and it's understood what's the big fucking deal?   

So, you also measure time in units of conductance (S)?

K isn't a UK measure of temperature, it is international, and the only way of referring to temperature above absolute zero.

Frequently "K" is used to mean 1024.

And two wrongs don't make a right!

Would you think it acceptable for a draughtsman to indicate that "m" means 1000000 on his drawing? Or to use multipliers of lakh (100000) and crore (10000000)?

Fundamentally the purpose of a document is to record information so that it can be used by other people. Anything getting in the way of that is to be deprecated.

This is getting ridiculous. Your arguments and examples are irrelevant. The fact remains it was done on just about every American schematic you care to pull up. Whether it's still done that way I can't say. Perhaps we now "tow the line"

Tell your iPad to stop doing that---as you know, it's "toe"!

and adhere to some accepted international standard. And basically you've indicted every American draftsman as incompetent. And as far as I'm concerned for my own use I will continue to use it.

And since we're tossing arrows back and forth across the pond riddle me this. How come a vacuum tube, 12AX7 for example, developed by RCA in 1947 is suddenly an ECC83 in Europe?

In the military it is a CV "something" !

It's the same tube. Why different naming convention for a tube that wasn't developed in Europe? Should it not carry the same designation to avoid confusion? In reality do I really care? Nope. Does it bother me? Nope. Is it WRONG? Absolutely.         

[mnementh]

I am simply copying what apparently has been a standard here in the U.S. which for some reason you guys in Europe get all pissy and whiny whenever I mention it. I looked at schematics from Tek, HP, Fluke, Heath, etc and EVERYONE expresses UC K as 1000. The latest schematics I have dated in 1990's for the Fluke 87 have resistors expressed as, for example, 2.2K. Now I understand and accept that UC K also is for Kelvin. But over here it also stood for multiplier 1000. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's the way it was. I can't tell you if it's still used that way or not because we can't get schematics anymore. And as I keep mentioning...any draftsman worth his salt will have notes indicating what the specific symbology means. So I ask you...if that's done and it's understood what's the big fucking deal?   

 

1000 times this, it is what I was taught at college and has been printed in every text book I have read. I really cannot understand why people don't know what the letters stand for, it is international standards and if they really cannot understand what k, M, p, m, n, G etc mean then bloody well google it, 5.7M to me says it all, but 5M7 makes me think that some silly arse has mistyped it 

Yes, but then there are schematics which look like 5 7M or 5:7M or 5..7M etc due to crap reproduction.

And for the vast majority of humanity, 5.7M will be read as 5.7 meters. As usual, context is everything.

mnem
If you can't deal with it, they will hire someone who can... or at least who can fake it 'til they make it.

[capt bullshot]

And for the vast majority of humanity, 5.7M will be read as 5.7 meters. As usual, context is everything.

Nah, that's just 5.7 million (5700000).
Except for the financial people, they would show 5.7 million currency units as e.g. 5.7m€ (in case your currency is EUR). To me, that's a bit more than half a cent.

Meter (length unit) uses m (lowercase).

[AVGresponding]

   

Electrocuted means killed by means of electric shock. You're wearing this in the coffin?

That's a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunately misuse particularly on-line has normalized electrocution to mean electric shock, not death by electricity. Seems to have started in the USA. Then again I'm a pedantic sod.

electrocute: verb

elec·​tro·​cute | \ i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt
\
electrocuted; electrocuting

Definition of electrocute

transitive verb
1 : to kill or severely injure by electric shock

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute


Oxford Languages as used by Google agrees:



mnem
Living Language, tra-la-la!!!

Yes, it's now included in the definition under common usage rules.

Common usage definition: The widespread inappropriate use of words or language by ignorant people, causing a change in the definition in order to include the lowest common denominator.

[mnementh]

Yes... this the evolution of a living language. Just as momentarily used to mean for a moment; it is now in the process of evolving to mean in a moment. And countless other similar examples.

mnem
Adapt or die.

[mnementh]

And for the vast majority of humanity, 5.7M will be read as 5.7 meters. As usual, context is everything.

Nah, that's just 5.7 million (5700000).
Except for the financial people, they would show 5.7 million currency units as e.g. 5.7m€ (in case your currency is EUR). To me, that's a bit more than half a cent. Meter (length unit) uses m (lowercase).

Properly used, yes. But IRL, only if accompanied by some monetary unit. The world is full of ignorant people, and I already see both M and m used almost interchangeably dependent on context. Particularly since the evolution (devolution...?) known as txtspk. 

mnem
I give up.

[tggzzz]

I am simply copying what apparently has been a standard here in the U.S. which for some reason you guys in Europe get all pissy and whiny whenever I mention it. I looked at schematics from Tek, HP, Fluke, Heath, etc and EVERYONE expresses UC K as 1000. The latest schematics I have dated in 1990's for the Fluke 87 have resistors expressed as, for example, 2.2K. Now I understand and accept that UC K also is for Kelvin. But over here it also stood for multiplier 1000. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's the way it was. I can't tell you if it's still used that way or not because we can't get schematics anymore. And as I keep mentioning...any draftsman worth his salt will have notes indicating what the specific symbology means. So I ask you...if that's done and it's understood what's the big fucking deal?   

 

1000 times this, it is what I was taught at college and has been printed in every text book I have read. I really cannot understand why people don't know what the letters stand for, it is international standards and if they really cannot understand what k, M, p, m, n, G etc mean then bloody well google it, 5.7M to me says it all, but 5M7 makes me think that some silly arse has mistyped it 

Yes, but then there are schematics which look like 5 7M or 5:7M or 5..7M etc due to crap reproduction.

And for the vast majority of humanity, 5.7M will be read as 5.7 meters. As usual, context is everything.

Context is important.

Unless it is just for yourself having incorrect units and/or incorrect modifiers is like presenting somebody with a document containing typographical errors and/or grammatical errors and/or malapropisms, etc. It makes you look careless or ignorant.

If somebody sents a CV to an HRdroid with spelling/grammar errors, the HRdroid will presume that the candidate isn't worth hiring.

If somebody sends me a schematic with units/modifier errors then I will (rightly or wrongly) presume either they are careless or they don't know much about electronics, especially electronics theory.

[Robert763]

   

Electrocuted means killed by means of electric shock. You're wearing this in the coffin?

That's a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunately misuse particularly on-line has normalized electrocution to mean electric shock, not death by electricity. Seems to have started in the USA. Then again I'm a pedantic sod.

electrocute: verb

elec·​tro·​cute | \ i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt
\
electrocuted; electrocuting

Definition of electrocute

transitive verb
1 : to kill or severely injure by electric shock

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute


Oxford Languages as used by Google agrees:



mnem
Living Language, tra-la-la!!!

Told you it started with the Americans 
Note that they both say injured, so just getting a shock is not being electrocuted, injury must result.

[Robert763]

I just got a message from the guy in Portugal who bought the Marconi 2022E from me on eBay (The one I stole saved BD139 from BD139). Apparently it work for 3 day's and then broke 
Sounds like a OM345 gone. I gave him some advce, no not put it back on eBay, on repair.

[med6753]

Mnem, we are completely surrounded by Brits on the rag today. All we can do is grin and bear it. 

[nixiefreqq]

Mnem, we are completely surrounded by Brits on the rag today. All we can do is grin and bear it. 

you got that right.

an update just killed windows live mail on swmbos computer.

apparently microsoft dropped support for that application in 2016.

she is a brit, so i tried an approach learned from an old britcom i have been watching.

said.... "oh dear, so sad, never mind".

do you think the UK will take her back?