Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

The credits are going to med6753. He assumed, it could be an HP boat anchor.

Nooooooooooooo the credits go to Robert763, he got it spot on.

[mnementh]

You're right. I forgot all about spooling. I was never an operator nor an IT guy. Just what I observed while working on a dead mainframe in a computer room. And it was common that there were computer operators who's sole job was to maintain the punch cards. Reading them into the readers, cataloging, storing, etc. And just one mangled punch card could ruin your day big time. 

Yes - care in handling punch cards was an essential skill - but in my day, it wasn't as critical as it was in the preceding generation.

That was the days when a program was compiled from source code on cards and created an object deck - punched cards with the hex machine code.  These were pretty much completely unreadable to the human eye and if you dropped this deck, you could play 500 or 1,000 (or more) pick-up - but getting this back together in the right sequence was the challenge.  Cue the 082 card sorter (well, that's the model I used) - and you just sorted on the sequence number you had punched in columns 73-80.  (You did specify sequence numbers in your compile options, didn't you?!!)

This will all sound rather unbelievable to the youngsters - but, it is all part of computing history.

Imagine the trouble you could get into with a leaf-blower. 

mnem

*chuckles softly; a sound not unlike that of a jet engine huffing just before it explodes*

[factory]

Anyone interested saving a HP 3460A digital voltmeter (DC volts only) with option H04 (6.5 digit display) in the UK?
eBay auction: #324372745454


David

[Specmaster]

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go up to 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

I was mostly just agitatin'. 

Tho the 427A was a watershed portable meter due to crazy low circuit loading Dual-FET null-offset design, crazy high AC voltage frequency at that accuracy (something like 4MHz, IIRC) and HP's inclusion of their then state-of-the-art platinum taut-band meter movement.

EDIT - A little InfoDump: http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_14a.htm

mnem
 

Trouble with it being low loading on a DUT is that as a lot of us are involved in repairing of the older type of devices, many of the stated voltages at test points were measured with instruments of 20,000 opv so any voltage taken with the HP will not be anywhere near the declared and expected voltage as shown on the service manuals, so not always as useful as it could be.

Again... you're trying to apply common sense to TEA. A losing proposition at best.

mnem
"This way lies madness."

Well I'm going to apply logic to it because while I'm addicted to TEA, its only good TEA to me if one of the following can be applied to it.
1/ Is it something that I could use in my bench setup?
2/ Is it something that I have the skills to repair if it needs to be fixed?
3/ Is it something that I can buy, tart it up, fix it up and flip it easily, assuming it does not fall into number 1 rule.
4/ Is it cheap to start with otherwise none of the above will apply, yes I'm a cheapskate.

[mnementh]

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

You forgot the peeling meter scales on the older ones.      Did you want more AC volts? then you need this accessory which will be good for up to 25kV.     

David

This is still my favorite analog meter of all time.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go up to 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

I was mostly just agitatin'. 

Tho the 427A was a watershed portable meter due to crazy low circuit loading Dual-FET null-offset design, crazy high AC voltage frequency at that accuracy (something like 4MHz, IIRC) and HP's inclusion of their then state-of-the-art platinum taut-band meter movement.

EDIT - A little InfoDump: http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_14a.htm

mnem
 

Trouble with it being low loading on a DUT is that as a lot of us are involved in repairing of the older type of devices, many of the stated voltages at test points were measured with instruments of 20,000 opv so any voltage taken with the HP will not be anywhere near the declared and expected voltage as shown on the service manuals, so not always as useful as it could be.

Again... you're trying to apply common sense to TEA. A losing proposition at best.

mnem
"This way lies madness."

Well I'm going to apply logic to it because while I'm addicted to TEA, its only good TEA to me if one of the following can be applied to it.
1/ Is it something that I could use in my bench setup?
2/ Is it something that I have the skills to repair if it needs to be fixed?
3/ Is it something that I can buy, tart it up, fix it up and flip it easily, assuming it does not fall into number 1 rule.
4/ Is it cheap to start with otherwise none of the above will apply, yes I'm a cheapskate.

mnem

[mnementh]

   Welp... for good or evil, it has a roof so it is now actually a building. All that remains is to build a floor/base, slide it up on there, and hang the doors.

Wooden floor?  That is way too fancy for the GWN.  Seriously though, I suspect the ground in your area will heave a lot with the freeze and thaw cycles of the weather. 

The normal Canadian approach is to lay out a floor of heavy patio stones (both large and thick as well so they do not get cracked) and be done with it.  Canadian fancy would be to pour a 10x10 concrete slab; not a particularly good option when you are renting. 

Good thinking about staying above the snow melt; common practice is 4" higher than the surrounding grade if possible (more for larger structures).

Not really worried aboot heave or timber rot, as this one will be right there on the asphalt driveway.  For less than a year. When we move, it will probably get placed on concrete pavers to elevate it slightly. Should do that here probably, except almost no room for a ramp at the doorway already without raising things another inch or two.

mnem
 

[bd139]

Yep. Mine is bolted directly to concrete. It's fine.

[AVGresponding]

Sucks it's still like that anywhere. Very few care what colour or polarity you are here in London

And that's very noticeable in the British TV shows where the races seem to intermix with no conflicts. I think that's one reason why she likes to watch them.

Maybe on the surface, but if you scratch beneath it, you might find it's not quite as harmonious as it's often made out to be.
I witness racism and misogyny every day; in my experience it's more or less endemic within manual trades.


I see someone has stirred up the wobbly pointer fanboys again...

Anyone interested saving a HP 3460A digital voltmeter (DC volts only) with option H04 (6.5 digit display) in the UK?
eBay auction: #324372745454


David

Not at that price, good grief. Even at 1/3 the money I'd have to think hard before saying yes.

EDIT: I should have recognised the table in the picture; scotttrade12. Might throw a lowball at him, I don't expect him to accept though.

[Robert763]

Sucks it's still like that anywhere. Very few care what colour or polarity you are here in London

And that's very noticeable in the British TV shows where the races seem to intermix with no conflicts. I think that's one reason why she likes to watch them.

Maybe on the surface, but if you scratch beneath it, you might find it's not quite as harmonious as it's often made out to be.
I witness racism and misogyny every day; in my experience it's more or less endemic within manual trades.


I see someone has stirred up the wobbly pointer fanboys again...

Anyone interested saving a HP 3460A digital voltmeter (DC volts only) with option H04 (6.5 digit display) in the UK?
eBay auction: #324372745454


David

Not at that price, good grief. Even at 1/3 the money I'd have to think hard before saying yes.

EDIT: I should have recognised the table in the picture; scotttrade12. Might throw a lowball at him, I don't expect him to accept though.

Yeah, most of Dave's (Scottrade) stuff seem to come from a scrapyard.  Used to sell under a different name that escapes me at the moment with sensible start prices. He seems to have got "advice" to start high BIN. He has no idea what stuff is really worth or it's condition (The 3460A has a duff fan for starters). I haven't bought anything from him in a long time.

[Specmaster]

Yep. Mine is bolted directly to concrete. It's fine.

GWN snow is usually deeper than Isleworth snow I think 

[bd139]

But the rain! 

[Cerebus]

Sucks it's still like that anywhere. Very few care what colour or polarity you are here in London

And that's very noticeable in the British TV shows where the races seem to intermix with no conflicts. I think that's one reason why she likes to watch them.

Maybe on the surface, but if you scratch beneath it, you might find it's not quite as harmonious as it's often made out to be.
I witness racism and misogyny every day; in my experience it's more or less endemic within manual trades.

I think the London bit is important in BD's comment. You can go to some other bits of the country and not see a 'non-white' face all day. In those places there probably is still a lot more entrenched racism. Here in London if you were to actively notice a 'non-white' face as you walked down the street then you'd probably use up most of your cognitive capacity on doing that alone. Most racism is just a symptom of having to deal with the unfamiliar (and therefore threatening to our monkey hind brains); when your neighbours and colleagues are every race under the sun you start to see people first rather than race first.

[AVGresponding]

Sucks it's still like that anywhere. Very few care what colour or polarity you are here in London

And that's very noticeable in the British TV shows where the races seem to intermix with no conflicts. I think that's one reason why she likes to watch them.

Maybe on the surface, but if you scratch beneath it, you might find it's not quite as harmonious as it's often made out to be.
I witness racism and misogyny every day; in my experience it's more or less endemic within manual trades.

I think the London bit is important in BD's comment. You can go to some other bits of the country and not see a 'non-white' face all day. In those places there probably is still a lot more entrenched racism. Here in London if you were to actively notice a 'non-white' face as you walked down the street then you'd probably use up most of your cognitive capacity on doing that alone. Most racism is just a symptom of having to deal with the unfamiliar (and therefore threatening to our monkey hind brains); when your neighbours and colleagues are every race under the sun you start to see people first rather than race first.

Our percentages are broadly the same as London's, in terms of the mix of races.

EDIT: In terms of white to non-white. The breakdown of non-white peoples will be different.

EDIT 2: Women make up around 50% of the population in every country/region, yet misogyny remains a problem, more serious in some places than others, nevertheless I feel comfortable in classifying it as "endemic".

[Specmaster]

Sucks it's still like that anywhere. Very few care what colour or polarity you are here in London

And that's very noticeable in the British TV shows where the races seem to intermix with no conflicts. I think that's one reason why she likes to watch them.

Maybe on the surface, but if you scratch beneath it, you might find it's not quite as harmonious as it's often made out to be.
I witness racism and misogyny every day; in my experience it's more or less endemic within manual trades.

I think the London bit is important in BD's comment. You can go to some other bits of the country and not see a 'non-white' face all day. In those places there probably is still a lot more entrenched racism. Here in London if you were to actively notice a 'non-white' face as you walked down the street then you'd probably use up most of your cognitive capacity on doing that alone. Most racism is just a symptom of having to deal with the unfamiliar (and therefore threatening to our monkey hind brains); when your neighbours and colleagues are every race under the sun you start to see people first rather than race first.

Thats a big yes, in areas with high mixed race populations, the racism does not generally come to surface because people actually see that apart from colour, there is very little differences in the way people live and the values are pretty much the same. But go outside of London and the other big cities where it is predominantly white people is where racists thrive and are in your face about and that I really believe is the fear of the unknown, and that fear is what certain political people exploit, by stirring the pot till it boils over and erupts and one of the chief people doing that has the initials of NF, strangely. I never thought of it like that, but NF also has a ugly double meaning

[SilverSolder]

Sucks it's still like that anywhere. Very few care what colour or polarity you are here in London

And that's very noticeable in the British TV shows where the races seem to intermix with no conflicts. I think that's one reason why she likes to watch them.

Maybe on the surface, but if you scratch beneath it, you might find it's not quite as harmonious as it's often made out to be.
I witness racism and misogyny every day; in my experience it's more or less endemic within manual trades.

I think the London bit is important in BD's comment. You can go to some other bits of the country and not see a 'non-white' face all day. In those places there probably is still a lot more entrenched racism. Here in London if you were to actively notice a 'non-white' face as you walked down the street then you'd probably use up most of your cognitive capacity on doing that alone. Most racism is just a symptom of having to deal with the unfamiliar (and therefore threatening to our monkey hind brains); when your neighbours and colleagues are every race under the sun you start to see people first rather than race first.

Thats a big yes, in areas with high mixed race populations, the racism does not generally come to surface because people actually see that apart from colour, there is very little differences in the way people live and the values are pretty much the same. But go outside of London and the other big cities where it is predominantly white people is where racists thrive and are in your face about and that I really believe is the fear of the unknown, and that fear is what certain political people exploit, by stirring the pot till it boils over and erupts and one of the chief people doing that has the initials of NF, strangely. I never thought of it like that, but NF also has a ugly double meaning

It seems to me that "NF" and his cohorts have single handedly set the UK back by at least a decade...   but that's all it is, a setback, because there is no way their philosophy can succeed in the medium term...   it isn't as if the mature economies are going to suddently become more competitive and solve their internal problems by rejecting the rest of the world...     so, despite the darkness of the cloud cover, I am optimistic about the future!

[bd139]

For UK ebay folk. I didn't get a £1 listing weekend message but this link worked for me: https://pages.ebay.co.uk/promos/10002m88/

AS for political grifter Mr Farage, we should put him in a dinghy and drop him off in the middle of the English Channel, only for poetic reasons.

[med6753]

On this side of the pond it's unfortunately a completely different story. You are judged first by the color of your skin. Being black immediately puts you in "2nd class" status regardless of anything else. And the ridiculous fears and stereotypes that go along with it. You have to more or less "prove" that you are worthy of same respect as an average white person. And even then there are lingering doubts.

Here's an example that I personally witnessed but at the time didn't totally understand what was going on. (And a good thing I didn't or there would have been the possibility that I'd be arrested).....

Her and I are in a children's clothing store and she is purchasing items for her grand daughter. We get up to the cashier to pay for the items and she has a discount card for that store but can't find the card. So the clerk, a white woman, asks her for her phone number which will bring up the discount info. So the clerk types it in and while we can't see the screen the look on her face said it all. The name that came up can't possibly be the black woman standing in front of me. You could see "identity theft" written all over her face. But luckily the clerk came to her senses and continued with the sale. Yes bitch...a black woman CAN have the last name of "McCarthy".

Lady Copper knew exactly what was going on and took the high ground and said nothing. Turns out this happens often and she's almost used to it. Isn't that a shame? Your name doesn't fit who you are supposed to "look like" therefore you are a criminal. Me? After I got over the shock of what I saw I was pissed for hours and wanted to kill someone. You don't know how demeaning and insulting a situation like that can be. And black folk have to put up with this on a daily basis.       

 

[McBryce]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.



- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

The credits are going to med6753. He assumed, it could be an HP boat anchor.

Oops, sorry to both of you.

McBryce.

What no credit for getting it right 

Of course there was. The "Well done." was meant for you.

McBryce.

[bd139]

On this side of the pond it's unfortunately a completely different story. You are judged first by the color of your skin. Being black immediately puts you in "2nd class" status regardless of anything else. And the ridiculous fears and stereotypes that go along with it. You have to more or less "prove" that you are worthy of same respect as an average white person. And even then there are lingering doubts.

Here's an example that I personally witnessed but at the time didn't totally understand what was going on. (And a good thing I didn't or there would have been the possibility that I'd be arrested).....

Her and I are in a children's clothing store and she is purchasing items for her grand daughter. We get up to the cashier to pay for the items and she has a discount card for that store but can't find the card. So the clerk, a white woman, asks her for her phone number which will bring up the discount info. So the clerk types it in and while we can't see the screen the look on her face said it all. The name that came up can't possibly be the black woman standing in front of me. You could see "identity theft" written all over her face. But luckily the clerk came to her senses and continued with the sale. Yes bitch...a black woman CAN have the last name of "McCarthy".

Lady Copper knew exactly what was going on and took the high ground and said nothing. Turns out this happens often and she's almost used to it. Isn't that a shame? Your name doesn't fit who you are supposed to "look like" therefore you are a criminal. Me? After I got over the shock of what I saw I was pissed for hours and wanted to kill someone. You don't know how demeaning and insulting a situation like that can be. And black folk have to put up with this on a daily basis.       

 

Gah been on the end of that before. We’re just classist here. Second child born via c-section four weeks before and myself and my other half hobble into John Lewis (local mid to high end department store) looking quite frankly like shit, as you do. Bloody security guard followed us around like I was going to steal stuff. I went straight to their customer service desk and complained. And the uppity Karen behind the counter backed the security guard up. Cue one of my expletive ridden happy noodle boy style rants after not sleeping solid for 4 weeks. The Karen actually cried and I left the store without the MacBook and buggy I had gone in there to purchase.

If I tidied myself up I could have nicked half the store.

[med6753]

Yea, true. I had forgotten that you Brits are still very much into "Class" and who has it and who doesn't. At least you can somewhat get away with being "upper class" by more or less acting and dressing the part. Over here it's skin color and you can't hide it. 

[factory]

Anyone interested saving a HP 3460A digital voltmeter (DC volts only) with option H04 (6.5 digit display) in the UK?
eBay auction: #324372745454


David

Not at that price, good grief. Even at 1/3 the money I'd have to think hard before saying yes.

EDIT: I should have recognised the table in the picture; scotttrade12. Might throw a lowball at him, I don't expect him to accept though.

Yeah, most of Dave's (Scottrade) stuff seem to come from a scrapyard.  Used to sell under a different name that escapes me at the moment with sensible start prices. He seems to have got "advice" to start high BIN. He has no idea what stuff is really worth or it's condition (The 3460A has a duff fan for starters). I haven't bought anything from him in a long time.

Were you thinking of 07773 as the other account? this now seems to be inactive according to ePay, both are related to this company: http://www.connectdistribution.org.uk/contact_us.html

It seems really hard to get anything for a reasonable price these days with the make offer, doesn't help when other stuff sells at high prices.

The fan shouldn't be a major problem as it's just the usual shaded pole type used in older HP TE.
My HP 3460A cost me around €110 including shipping from Germany in 2014, back when most TE was sold in auctions instead of BIN's.

David

[mansaxel]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy,
..
 Am I missing something here?

Input impedance.

It's like a VTVM but without the 250V PSU.

[Robert763]

Anyone interested saving a HP 3460A digital voltmeter (DC volts only) with option H04 (6.5 digit display) in the UK?
eBay auction: #324372745454


David

Not at that price, good grief. Even at 1/3 the money I'd have to think hard before saying yes.

EDIT: I should have recognised the table in the picture; scotttrade12. Might throw a lowball at him, I don't expect him to accept though.

Yeah, most of Dave's (Scottrade) stuff seem to come from a scrapyard.  Used to sell under a different name that escapes me at the moment with sensible start prices. He seems to have got "advice" to start high BIN. He has no idea what stuff is really worth or it's condition (The 3460A has a duff fan for starters). I haven't bought anything from him in a long time.

Were you thinking of 07773 as the other account? this now seems to be inactive according to ePay, both are related to this company: http://www.connectdistribution.org.uk/contact_us.html

It seems really hard to get anything for a reasonable price these days with the make offer, doesn't help when other stuff sells at high prices.

The fan shouldn't be a major problem as it's just the usual shaded pole type used in older HP TE.
My HP 3460A cost me around €110 including shipping from Germany in 2014.

David

Yes 07773. I got the impression that someone came in a few years ago and gave them misguided ideas of the value of stuff. I visited them more than 10 years ago and then at least most of the stuff was just piled in packing crates or stillages, a lot of it outside. mostly MOD surplus. I got the impression it was stuff that even disposals did not think was saleable. Papko seem to be a similar operation.

[URI]

On this side of the pond it's unfortunately a completely different story. You are judged first by the color of your skin. Being black immediately puts you in "2nd class" status regardless of anything else. And the ridiculous fears and stereotypes that go along with it. You have to more or less "prove" that you are worthy of same respect as an average white person. And even then there are lingering doubts.

Here's an example that I personally witnessed but at the time didn't totally understand what was going on. (And a good thing I didn't or there would have been the possibility that I'd be arrested).....

Her and I are in a children's clothing store and she is purchasing items for her grand daughter. We get up to the cashier to pay for the items and she has a discount card for that store but can't find the card. So the clerk, a white woman, asks her for her phone number which will bring up the discount info. So the clerk types it in and while we can't see the screen the look on her face said it all. The name that came up can't possibly be the black woman standing in front of me. You could see "identity theft" written all over her face. But luckily the clerk came to her senses and continued with the sale. Yes bitch...a black woman CAN have the last name of "McCarthy".

Lady Copper knew exactly what was going on and took the high ground and said nothing. Turns out this happens often and she's almost used to it. Isn't that a shame? Your name doesn't fit who you are supposed to "look like" therefore you are a criminal. Me? After I got over the shock of what I saw I was pissed for hours and wanted to kill someone. You don't know how demeaning and insulting a situation like that can be. And black folk have to put up with this on a daily basis.       

Oh, we Germans are cured and not racist at all, are we?
No, we aren't. 

Last year I was at a local DIY-store ("Baumarkt") to collect some things I needed for a repair in our apartment.
It was a busy day and when I came nearer to the check-out I saw long queues winding up to the individual check-outs.
Except for one. It was open.
But: The cashier -a young woman- wore a headscarf -obviously a Muslim woman.
Frankly, I was shocked, I hadn't experienced such a clear act of racism before in Germany.
I drove my shopping cart straight to her check-out, paid, had a little, friendly small talk (she had no accent whatsoever..) ignored the other people at the nearby check-outs and went through and out of the store.
While I was checking out I was hoping that others would follow me -'cause no one likes queueing up if there's a shorter queue -or in this case: no queue.
No one followed me as long as I could notice it and I felt very bitter afterwards. 

edit: This feeling of bitterness is still there, after writing these lines it has come a bit more out of the shadows where it was hiding since then.