Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

coil assembly = cartridge.

I suspect I killed mine by dropping the handpiece on the floor to be fair.

Thanks.

Sounds like the cartridge is a bit delicate, doesn't it?      

The iron that BD has got is one of the PS 'production' series. They have a handle, a coil and a tip as separate items. The classic MX and SP series have the coil and tip as an integrated replaceable unit. I think the theory is that for the production series the ability to replace the coil and/or tip separately will lead to lower overall replacement costs as these irons are intended to be used continuously all day and you expect to actually consume your consumables. The MX and SP irons were once the only designs, with the MX designated for rework/technician use and the SP for production use.

I think also the logic is that for production work you aren't expecting to change the tips frequently for application like you would in an engineering or repair/rework environment.

If you shop fleaBay carefully, you can still find a MX500P for $50-75 in "it lights up" or even tested working condition. I've considered several times shopping them again since moving back up to the Great White North; I do miss mine a lot.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

...I'm a bit worried about the apparent size of the hole in the middle of those LEDs because we know that if there's a hole of a certain size there's always some bloke who's gonna stick his [remains of this message truncated by DecencyFilterBot-2000].

Sick minds think alike.

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

Somebody here who wants to build some death traps?

Find here some inspirations:



There are more in his video channel....         

There are still some idiots around that claim that natural selection doesnt work. 

Ooooohhh! electric cock ring!!! I'll take three!!! 

mnem
What could possibly go wrong...?

Well, each to their own, but I suppose plugging it could have a similar result to Viagra but YMMV.

[bd139]

Yes cardiac arrest as a significant side effect 

[Cerebus]

I've soldered with different Weller soldering stations throughout the years and found them to be very good at their job.
Currently I have two WECP-20 and a EC 2002 "antistatic".

I noticed that I have three of them because changing the tip is a pita. These three soldering station eat up valuable space, their cords interfere with each other and I happen to use only one station regularly.
I've come to a point where it's clear to me that only for having it a little more easy to change top another tip by firing up the next station has come to an end.

The T12-based soldering station have caught my attention long ago; For me the T12 cartrigde with integrated heater (better/faster heat delivery to the tip) have the advantage of being able to be changed quickly by just unplugging and plugging. If one uses a silicone heat insulation pad it's possible even with hot tip -unlike the Weller with its srewed mechanism (pun intended).

After all that's been said about the Metcals I might consider them, too. -if one should come cheap one day.   

The irony here is that the Metcals are the easiest things in the world to change a tip on, but you don't do it because they're so flexible in use/application that you don't generally need to.

To change the tip on a Metcal:

• Turn power off - 2 seconds
• Grip tip with silicone rubber pad - 2 seconds
• Pull off - 1 second
• Put down, pick up new tip, either cold or hot with pad - 2 - 5 seconds
• Push new tip into iron - 1 second
• Turn on power and wait for it to hit soldering heat - 6 seconds

Total - 17 seconds or less  soldering with one tip to soldering with another and no hassle. And this is no exaggeration. On the classic MX and SP series the plug end of the tips is cool enough to handle directly even though the other end is still blazing hot. I've not used the type that BD139 has where the driver coil is not integrated into the tips the way it is on the MX and SP series.

Well, thats essentially much the same for T12 as well 

I thought you had something to unscrew on the T12?

[Specmaster]

Yes cardiac arrest as a significant side effect 

Permanently stiff?

[Specmaster]

I've soldered with different Weller soldering stations throughout the years and found them to be very good at their job.
Currently I have two WECP-20 and a EC 2002 "antistatic".

I noticed that I have three of them because changing the tip is a pita. These three soldering station eat up valuable space, their cords interfere with each other and I happen to use only one station regularly.
I've come to a point where it's clear to me that only for having it a little more easy to change top another tip by firing up the next station has come to an end.

The T12-based soldering station have caught my attention long ago; For me the T12 cartrigde with integrated heater (better/faster heat delivery to the tip) have the advantage of being able to be changed quickly by just unplugging and plugging. If one uses a silicone heat insulation pad it's possible even with hot tip -unlike the Weller with its srewed mechanism (pun intended).

After all that's been said about the Metcals I might consider them, too. -if one should come cheap one day.   

The irony here is that the Metcals are the easiest things in the world to change a tip on, but you don't do it because they're so flexible in use/application that you don't generally need to.

To change the tip on a Metcal:

• Turn power off - 2 seconds
• Grip tip with silicone rubber pad - 2 seconds
• Pull off - 1 second
• Put down, pick up new tip, either cold or hot with pad - 2 - 5 seconds
• Push new tip into iron - 1 second
• Turn on power and wait for it to hit soldering heat - 6 seconds

Total - 17 seconds or less  soldering with one tip to soldering with another and no hassle. And this is no exaggeration. On the classic MX and SP series the plug end of the tips is cool enough to handle directly even though the other end is still blazing hot. I've not used the type that BD139 has where the driver coil is not integrated into the tips the way it is on the MX and SP series.

Well, thats essentially much the same for T12 as well 

I thought you had something to unscrew on the T12?

Only on the very cheap 952 handle, the 9501 handle is fully plug and play

[mnementh]

The T12 has the equivalent of the tip and the cartridge in one unit and the handle separately. It works pretty well but the engineering tolerances of the handles are terrible as are the contact mounts. I was not impressed. For 20% more cost, they could have put together a 100% better iron that would literally shat on the competition on price/performance. But as always they missed the mark in the race to the bottom.

EDITED to clarify:  bd - as much as I love my MetCal, the OLED T12 controller is not the POS you keep painting it to be. It does have its plus side.

I've said before that there is a huge variation in QC on these things; especially the handles. It's unreasonable to lump the entire species in together because you got one poorly designed handle and one controller that couldn't handle short-circuit conditions. In the OLED T12's defense, short-circuit protection is very difficult to implement here because of the way the T12 system monitors temp between swings of the PWM cycle. And their firmware implementation beats everything Hakko has EVER made hands-down.

Buy a genuine Hakko handle and you can be sure to get a good socket in it. Or buy 2 or 3 cheap handles for $7 each and chuck the crap ones.

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

The MX and SP irons were once the only designs, with the MX designated for rework/technician use and the SP for production use.

Metcal noob here, does SP and MX use the same cartridge type ? And also the handle ?

Same in principle, different both mechanically and in operating frequency. MX series runs on ~13MHz, SP on ~450kHz. They are not interchangeable across series.

[bd139]

To note the PS is 450KHz as well. That has some advantages as the power supply is fairly simple (MOSFET class C amplifier + SWR bridge) if it goes wonky

The T12 has the equivalent of the tip and the cartridge in one unit and the handle separately. It works pretty well but the engineering tolerances of the handles are terrible as are the contact mounts. I was not impressed. For 20% more cost, they could have put together a 100% better iron that would literally shat on the competition on price/performance. But as always they missed the mark in the race to the bottom.

bd - as much as I love my MetCal, the OLED T12 is not the POS you keep painting it to be. It does have its plus side.

I've said before that there is a huge variation in QC on these things; especially the handles. It's unreasonable to lump the entire species in together because you got one poorly designed handle and one controller that couldn't handle short-circuit conditions. In the OLED T12's defense, short-circuit protection is very difficult to implement here because of the way the T12 system monitors temp between swings of the PWM cycle. And their firmware implementation beats everything Hakko has EVER made hands-down.

Buy a genuine Hakko handle and you can be sure to get a good socket in it. Or buy 2 or 3 cheap handles for $7 each and chuck the crap ones.

mnem
 

I'm going to be thoroughly frank but no they are dangerous, poorly manufactured crap.

That was the result of my thorough evaluation of the design when I actually considered importing thousands of the things and reselling them here in Europe. Yes I had a legitimate business plan. They fit a really good niche. They are cheap and pretty good when they work.

BUT the negatives didn't make commercial sense because I couldn't overcome the following issues:

1. The mains inlet mounting is ridiculously dangerous.
2. The earthing is ridiculously dangerous.
3. The handle tolerances are so poor that the failure rate is likely too high to be commercially viable.
4. The shipped power supply module in my mains one missed all the common mode filtering that should have been in there.
5. The cabling in the handpiece is borderline inadequate for the load.
6. The tip lifetime (element and sensor, not the actual metal) is really poor.
7. The default failure modes all turn the tip into a glowing orange fire starter.
8. The shitty encoder moves the unit around when you poke it (usability)
9. The secondary failure mode is exploding MOSFET.
10. Default set up isn't ESD safe.
11. EMC?? Bwuhahahaha

Just no. It's a shitty bit of low ball engineering. If they threw some more effort in, it'd be worth it but this doesn't cut it. Nowhere near.

This is alpha quality hardware. Perhaps in a few years when they've rounded off the cut corners...

[Cerebus]

I think also the logic is that for production work you aren't expecting to change the tips frequently for application like you would in an engineering or repair/rework environment.

My thinking was that the coil probably lasts on a months/years scale, in a production environment, whereas the tips probably have shorter lives measured on a days/weeks/months scale. So breaking out the coil as a separate item would mean that you're not throwing away perfectly good coils along with knackered tips. The PS series tips are less than half the price of the MX/SP series cartridges, the coils are around the same price as the cartridges.

You're quite right, the same tip probably stays on, on a production line, for a whole batch of boards or more, hence it's getting hammered. When I've done production soldering (years and years ago) I've been making thousands of joints a day. (For reference, not that it's relevant to the matter in hand, that was using Wellers.)

[Specmaster]

@bd139, I still think that while your points are not without merit, as mnementh mentioned, this is strictly true, there are some good makers out there who are doing a reasonable job.

Your point 1, I take it refers to the practise of the inlet tabs being soldered directly to the PSU PCB, which I have witnessed on one of mine (I have 2) and the earthing on both was a bit of an issue but is very easy to resolve and can be done in short time.

Points 7 and 8, yes I did have one controller fail in that red glowing fireball fashion, and that was a Kseger one, I now have 2 Quicko ones, and no problems. The encoder issue is because of the small lightweight enclosure, again easy to resolve by the fitment of some rubber feet.

Points 10 and 11, I have had no issues with any sensitive parts being soldered being affected adversely and also not aware of any emissions of EMC from them, I have never seen any sign of transmissions on the radios, TV's and other equipment in my room and indeed anywhere in the house, now my Fluorescent bench light however.....

As to importing them for UK resale, I'm sure that none of the points you highlight are not solvable with the right partner in China?

[med6753]

I just discovered "Mrs Brown's Boys" on Brit Box. Funny stuff.

[Specmaster]

I just discovered "Mrs Brown's Boys" on Brit Box. Funny stuff.

Totally agree with you, however the rest of my family think I'm mad for liking it 

[PA0PBZ]

You have the clock yourself?
it seems very cool...

Nope, I googled for "oscilloscope clock kit", found the thing on aliexpress and there was a link on the very bottom of the listing.

[tonyalbus]

You have the clock yourself?
it seems very cool...

Nope, I googled for "oscilloscope clock kit", found the thing on aliexpress and there was a link on the very bottom of the listing.

Thanks you did for sure a better job then i did...

[med6753]

The 5642 HV Rectifier tubes showed up today. Despite the boxes looking rough the tubes themselves are brand new and unused. The 6AQ5 HV Oscillator tube was supposed to show up today but it dropped into a USPS black hole between here and Arizona. The Mouser order of HV capacitors should arrive Wednesday.

 

[Wolfgang]

Somebody here who wants to build some death traps?

Find here some inspirations:



There are more in his video channel....         

There are still some idiots around that claim that natural selection doesnt work. 

Ooooohhh! electric cock ring!!! I'll take three!!! 

mnem
What could possibly go wrong...?

On the obituary: He went while coming.

[tonyalbus]

RuoShui Victor 4090C .. looks so much better then expected... brother of EastTester ET4410
proper size, metal casing.. incl clips..

[ch_scr]

Surprise TEA at work today, colleague brought me his neighbours barn-find.
Turned on like new, for 5 minutes. Then massive smoke pouring from the back, Paffner line filter .
Was good to open it though, replaced two RIFA's in the power supply and removed a dead but still intact 4-cell-NiCd
Tl;dr: She's alive again, but has a distinct smell to her.
Speaks mostly dead Telco protocols but can also sniff RS232 up to 64kb. Can be used as a VT100 terminal as a bonus

[Saskia]

my boss told me today that my higher ups decided to transfer me from finance to infrastructure.
Naturally no one asked me about my opinion ... (they did not ask my current boss either ...)

except for the potential/likely future boss. Big plus for him.

I think they should give me a raise ...

[tautech]

Cerebus is on the mark as usual. The PS series I picked because this was a production iron rather than a rework iron. It has three parts: the handpiece, cartridge and tip, each replaceable on the fly. The tips take 5 seconds to swap out. The cartridge 20 seconds and the handpiece about 30 seconds. The whole thing is designed to not cost you time.

Ya wot ? 
Who TF doesn't have a pair of pliers handy for changing out a hot Hakko tip and be going again in a minute ? 
Really, is our hobby time that precious. 

This was then bolted into the chassis in place of the old capacitor with M4 hardware. There are three spacer washers between the board and the main PCB.



Job done, and if an original part comes along it can be substituted in no problems at all.

Would've looked so much nicer with brass standoffs, nuts and screws. 

Don't you guys hang onto this stuff when you part things out ? 

[SilverSolder]

OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

[SilverSolder]

my boss told me today that my higher ups decided to transfer me from finance to infrastructure.
Naturally no one asked me about my opinion ... (they did not ask my current boss either ...)

except for the potential/likely future boss. Big plus for him.

I think they should give me a raise ...

Infrastructure is the "next big thing", discussed all the way to the IMF level.  You are getting into where the action is! 

[med6753]

OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And it sure ain't difficult. My documents are backed up to an external hard drive as well as the Cloud.

Update: the 6AQ5 tube arrived at my PO this afternoon. So I should get it tomorrow.