Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 18658836 times)

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Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71150 on: October 04, 2020, 05:28:47 pm »
My project for the "Tag der Deutschen Einheit":

Add some reasonable power distribution to the lab cart:





I really like that cart. Looks sturdy. Where'd you get it?

The metal frame with the attached wheels came from scrap @work (AFAIR, these carts were build in-house back then), I replaced the rotten boards with new beech wood boards.

Ah man, I was afraid of that. Looks great though.  :-+ :-+
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71151 on: October 04, 2020, 05:40:50 pm »
The K238 from Ice-Tea now finally found its destination:





impressive collection  8) 8)   :-+ :-+   
cool stuff.....
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Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71152 on: October 04, 2020, 05:41:59 pm »
Got the power supply for my forthcoming T12 soldering station controller together.   :)

Some pics (sorry for the quality, low lighting shot with my smartphone camera):


A peek inside: the DC/DC converter, filter caps and bridge rectifier mounted to an aluminium 50mmx50mm 90° bracket, wiring is done with 2,5mm² (24V regulated/unregulated) and 0,75² (230V AC) -these were cable types I had laying around.



The front: nothing exciting here: mains power switch and power indicator. The power indicator comes on when the current limiting resistor is bridged -switched with the same relay.



The back: mains 2W input, mains fuse, 2x secondary fuse, 1x 24V reg. fuse. Dimension of fuses tested successfully.   8)

Of course I made a load test after finishing the wiring. It's a power supply!   ;D

First finding:
The overall efficiency is not as good as a hoped: ~73% at 24W output but it gets a bit better at 72W (74%) to get worse at 120W (67,4%).

I might add some vent holes for natural convection, but I don't expect the T12 soldering station to draw so much continuous power so I might not..   8)

Second finding:
The isolation transformer has two secondary windings with 80VA each. I fused each winding individually.
The two windings are working in parallel to provide the nominal 120W of the switching DC to DC converter.
When I pull one fuse the unregulated DC voltage drops but the DC/DC converter doesn't stop working, drawing all the power from one winding over the left over fuse. And this fuse opens after under 10 minutes. Success!   :)

Third finding:
The inrush current limiter on the mains side works fine.
It also limits the current loading the two 47mF filter caps -the relay bridging the current limiting resistor switches significantly slower with empty caps.   :-+

Now waiting for the KSGER T12 soldering station to be delivered.   :scared:   :-DD
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 05:44:19 pm by URI »
A life without TEA is possible but pointless.
 
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Offline petemate

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71153 on: October 04, 2020, 05:42:41 pm »




Hi, whats the instruments on the right side, under the oscilloscope? A power analyzer, some N4L device that I haven't seen before and a power source? Please tell me more :)
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71154 on: October 04, 2020, 06:02:41 pm »


Hi, whats the instruments on the right side, under the oscilloscope? A power analyzer, some N4L device that I haven't seen before and a power source? Please tell me more :)

First one is a LMG 90 by ZES (Zimmer electronic systems) power meter, pretty old model. I guess you won't find anything about it, at least I didn't. Got it from the bay, had to fix a leaked NiCd battery.

Second is N4L PSM2200 (Quanteq phase sensistive meter). There should be some manuals on the net, e.g. here: https://www.newtons4th.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/PSM2200-User-Manual-v3_16.pdf

Bottom is an AC Source: http://wunderkis.de/AC-Source-EAC/

On the lower shelf: a lonely TOE 6702 Frequency counter. Got somewhat out of focus by the PM6654
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 06:11:20 pm by capt bullshot »
Safety devices hinder evolution
 
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Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71155 on: October 04, 2020, 06:07:58 pm »
impressive collection  8) 8)   :-+ :-+   
cool stuff.....

Thanks. Your stack ain't that bad, too.
Safety devices hinder evolution
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71156 on: October 04, 2020, 06:18:17 pm »
   Believe me, there has been serious thoughts on my side building the power supply that way.

1. Isolation:
My first approach was to just take an off shelf switch mode power supply. That would have provided an isolation one could be sure of not to be killed by it someday.
BUT:
These switchers do have capacitive voltages to ground, the output isn't floating as freely as one would assume; A CMOS circuit could be offended by that and decide to go dying...   ^-^

Second approach: Isolation using a transformer. Choosing a transformer that is certified for SELV/PELV circuits on the secondary side would give me the isolation safely that I need without switch mode residual voltages to ground.
In fact, the older Weller station with two wire input, fully isolated case and a transformer do exactly that.

Conclusion: Building a fully isolated power supply with two wire mains connection built in an fully isolated case.
This is a concept of double isolation (like the Weller stations I mentioned above) and protects the user from touching any mains parts or parts that could carry mains if a failure occurs.

This means that I would build the station into a plastic case -and that can't be used a heat sink..

2. Regulation
I bought the KSGER T12 controller.
I researched the net a bit and found Information that this T12 controller stands ~25V ok.
The KSGER switch mode power supply doesn't exactly output 24V, indeed.
But above 26V it seems to quickly die.   :palm:
IIRC that was the result of someone trying to speed up heating by increasing the voltage..   :-BROKE

This led to...

3. Voltage Regulation
A linear regulator is so inefficient that it would produce a massive amount of heat that I would have to cope with.
Since I build the station in a plastic case getting the heat out would be a major problem making it even more complex.   :scared:
 
The DC to DC switch mode converter has an efficiency of over 90% and it doesn't heat much when idle -unlike a linear supply.   :-+

I do not need an isolated DC to DC switcher but when it comes that way, why not.

The most important feature of this DC to DC switch mode converter for me is that it doesn't need an earth connection when powered with an isolated voltage.

4. ESD-compatability:
For ESD-compatibility I need a proper isolation transformer. -check.   :)
Since the tip is then properly isolated and floating I will add a 4mm socket connected to the tip to be able to connect to my ESD hub. Or to earth. Or to whatever.
It's most simple and flexible to just add a connector.

Now, when it comes to German engineering:
My solution in every part is not optimized to size, weight, volume, price or power needs.
You could say it's oversized in every part, yes.
A manufacturer would have managed to put this in a case 1/4 of the volume exactly fitted power wise.

Since I used off-shelf parts I had to over-dimension the single stages:
The T12 controllers mostly come with a 24V/5A supply even though the controllers without supply have a DC input marked with 24V/3A.
I chose a 24V/5A DC to DC converter because I wanted to have the same power like the standard KSGER supply.

I couldn't find matching isolation transformers with 120VA rated power. So I went for one with 160VA rated power.

The two big caps are dimensioned to filter the rectified DC voltage under full load (5A) to under a volt ripple.   8)
I just like those big cans.   :popcorn:

mnem: This is the minimal count of parts using non-optimized off-shelf parts. It's not the cheapest and elegant way, though.   :popcorn:

Dammitt! I should've known answering that T12 OLED post would drag me away from my very important Frustion360 modeling work!!!  :-DD

You forget something very important here: the way the T12 tip works is NOT the same as others with iron-filament heaters. These cartridges are a ceramic element hermetically sealed against the outer SS tube and tip. The heater is wired in series with the temp sensor, so it is a true 2-wire system all the way back to the controller, and in conjunction with the resin handgrip, the tip is ALREADY double-insulated. All you have to do to be ESD-safe is to make sure that outer SS shell is connected to earth GND by at least 1MΩ of resistance. This was the core reason HAKKO designed the T12/T15/T18 cartridge system this way.

            


Mine is also built from off the shelf parts; well, a dead put out of its misery Radio Shank soldering station and OTS parts. ;)

First: Here is the station complete. Still has that same post-apocalyptic chic feel from when I built it almost 3 years ago; I never did get around to replacing the "DOOMSDAY MACHINE ENABLE" power switch.  >:D

2) Here's the display up close: Note the input voltage in the lower right corner: At idle, the input voltage hovers right round 28.5V. Under full-load (heating up a cold tip) that'll briefly drop a volt or so. This station comes up to 320°C in 15 seconds cold; that includes the longer boot time of the STM32 processor/firmware. :-+

3) Here's how I achieved it: The stock RS transformer puts out 28.8VRMS at idle. This is rectified by a 10-12A bridge salvaged from an old ATX PSU. Normally, I'd tag a 470-1000uF brute force cap right here; but the buck-boost converter underneath has 2000uF/50V of low-ESR caps right across the input only a few mm away, so I decided to skip it as space was pretty cramped right there anyways. From there the voltage is regulated to a hair over the nominal 28V which the T12 cartridges are rated for, and fed to the KSGER STM32 OLED T12 controller.

4) This is the KSGER STM32 OLED T12 controller. It has a much more sophisticated firmware with individual PID profiles for the most popular T12 cartridges; the FW also supports Hot-Air rework and desoldering handles right from the menu. A coin cell keeps the RTC up to date. This FW allows either clock or input voltage monitor on the front screen; it also shows safety temp, (inside the handgrip) and PWM duty cycle. Recommended input regulated 24-28VDC. Here you can see that I have the handle and power connector shell tied directly to earth GND; this is because I am using the metal-shelled iWeld handle, which is also connected directly to earth GND for user safety. Inside the handle there is a 1MΩ resistor from the barrel contact to earth GND encased in double heat-shrink tubing. Probably not the best, most assuredly ESD-safe arrangement; the original resin handgrip would be that.  :-//  But that was a concession I made to the smaller, better-balanced metal handgrip.

5) The buck-boost converter here is the real gem of this build; its specs are almost like they were MADE for this project. Input voltage 5-42V, output 5-35V, CV-CC from 0.1-10A. eBay auction: #173983418047 It's an older model now; there are 20A equivalent models only a little larger footprint for the same ~US$10 all over fleabay now.

Now for why I went buck-boost: Voltage sag under load. Idle voltage from that 28.8VRMS transformer is approx 37.55V across the filter caps; pretty high because this a 70W-rated Pro-Line station made for them by Atten or Aoyue. I found I could easily load down the transformer to approx 26V at idle; but I was dissipating about 30W to do it, AND input voltage would sag to about 23V under full load. This put cold heatup times in a very meh 25-30 second range. Using this buck-boost converter allows me to turn that wasted wattage into fast-attack heating power while still keeping idle voltage well below the 32V absolute maximum of the 3.3V regulator on the OLED T12 controller. :-+

Output voltage does drop a little under full load; not because of voltage sag, but because I have my current limiting set to 6A for safety's sake. When I ran it wide open, the duty cycle was high enough to make an audible whine; I expect that was a harmonic which was just low enough to audibly resonate in the coil. Whatever. Current limiting to 6A made it go away. :-+

This station with a FX-9501 or FM-2028 resin handle would be exactly what you're trying to build. If in doubt, put the 1MΩ bleeder in the wiring in the base instead of the handle.

mnem
 :-/O
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 09:36:33 pm by mnementh »
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71157 on: October 04, 2020, 06:31:22 pm »
my tax lawyer has failed me and did not submit in time which lead to huge issues.
I had to let him go, but learned a lot when I had to do the declarations for 3 years within 3 weeks.
Now I am doing it myself after having dished it out with the IRS.
I won.
That's what counts.

 
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Offline 25 CPS

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71158 on: October 04, 2020, 06:36:34 pm »
This weekend I took a break.  I did some football activities and a ton of cooking for a couple of the teammates in a decidedly low tech cast iron, charcoal barbecue, oven, and stovetop way of doing things.  Consequently the only test and measurement equipment I’m using this weekend are:





My workbench is probably feeling neglected.  I'll get back to it later; maybe I should look into whether or not that beat up old Robertshaw timer can be replaced with a Hewlett-Packard counter/timer somehow.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 06:40:08 pm by 25 CPS »
 
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Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71159 on: October 04, 2020, 06:37:33 pm »
New RPN group shot.  >:D >:D A few updates since the last one. The 48G and 12C, in particular. I have two 15Cs and two 16Cs but I opted not to put them in for compactness of the shot.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71160 on: October 04, 2020, 06:38:49 pm »
Got the power supply for my forthcoming T12 soldering station controller together.   :)

Some pics (sorry for the quality, low lighting shot with my smartphone camera):


A peek inside: the DC/DC converter, filter caps and bridge rectifier mounted to an aluminium 50mmx50mm 90° bracket, wiring is done with 2,5mm² (24V regulated/unregulated) and 0,75² (230V AC) -these were cable types I had laying around...

Mmmokay... maybe not so bad. Looks like pretty much a much more expensive version of the same thing I built. :-DD

Please tell me you plan to build the OLED T12 controller into that enclosure...?

mnem
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71161 on: October 04, 2020, 06:42:22 pm »


 
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Offline tonyalbus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71162 on: October 04, 2020, 06:48:26 pm »
my tax lawyer has failed me and did not submit in time which lead to huge issues.
I had to let him go, but learned a lot when I had to do the declarations for 3 years within 3 weeks.
Now I am doing it myself after having dished it out with the IRS.
I won.
That's what counts.

Well done and smart move..... :box:
 in the end you are the one responsable in current laws... better know whats happening... you are not the first and for sure not the last to find this out...
good it is solved  :-+
...crappy stuff to worry about when life is to complicated enough already..
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71163 on: October 04, 2020, 07:20:37 pm »
@URI pardon my ignorance, but why not just buy a finished Hakko ?

 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71164 on: October 04, 2020, 07:28:22 pm »
@URI pardon my ignorance, but why not just buy a finished Hakko ?

I agree. After my T12 hackery exploding on me (shitty contacts in handle shorting the MOSFET out) it now resides to this day on my neighbours' garage roof where it was unceremoniously turfed and a Metcal PS900 purchased.

My the time you've got it fit for purpose you could have bought something far better or staved off your inevitable deathbed regrets by a few more hours :)
 

Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71165 on: October 04, 2020, 07:32:42 pm »
New RPN group shot.  >:D >:D A few updates since the last one. The 48G and 12C, in particular. I have two 15Cs and two 16Cs but I opted not to put them in for compactness of the shot.

very pretty.  goes without saying that they would look even better laid out in front of the starboard track of a d9 cat.
free range primate
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71166 on: October 04, 2020, 07:36:33 pm »
Since the subject of soldering stations has come up I feel compelled to provide an update and clear up some presumed assumptions.

Remember this alleged POS? I was heavily criticized and lambasted for purchasing it. It was declared worse than worse and would blow up and die within a few hours of using it. A waste of time and money. Really?  ::)

Well it has many, many hours on it and it still works. And the tip is still in good shape. It has more than paid for itself. So why am I still using it when I have that $500 Hakko sitting in the background? Simple. This alleged POS is far superior to the Hakko when doing work on vintage Tek ceramic strips. The Hakko struggles, even with it's temperature cranked. I tried different tips without much success. This orange POS gets the job done. Now for any work not involving ceramic strips of course the Hakko is the first choice. And it works great. Last week when working on the Type 310A I figured I'd give it another chance with the ceramic strips. Nope, takes too long to melt the solder. So the orange POS will still get the ceramic strip work.  :-+

Sometimes KISS is the best solution.    :horse:

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71167 on: October 04, 2020, 07:48:10 pm »
No no no metcal is the solution



As used by professionals...



I will never use another iron. I've used Pace, Weller, Antex shit for years and even the bottom end Metcal burns them a new asshole.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 07:51:05 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71168 on: October 04, 2020, 07:48:37 pm »
New RPN group shot.  >:D >:D A few updates since the last one. The 48G and 12C, in particular. I have two 15Cs and two 16Cs but I opted not to put them in for compactness of the shot.

very pretty.  goes without saying that they would look even better laid out in front of the starboard track of a d9 cat.

LMAO  :-DD :-DD
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71169 on: October 04, 2020, 07:48:55 pm »
@URI pardon my ignorance, but why not just buy a finished Hakko ?

Well, my reason for not buying a Hakko is that A) I was underwhelmed by their engineering and 2) I was REALLY underwhelmed by their customer support when mine (purchased directly from them) spontaneously burst into flames on my bench 2 months out of warranty.  ???

Since then, I discovered that the open-source T12 controllers are cheaper, smarter, faster, and not designed by assholes.

Also... Hakko is utter shite compared to even a used MetCal ( or even one of their new entry level units), which one can buy cheaper, so fuck Hakko.

mnem
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71170 on: October 04, 2020, 07:54:09 pm »
@URI pardon my ignorance, but why not just buy a finished Hakko ?

I agree. After my T12 hackery exploding on me (shitty contacts in handle shorting the MOSFET out) it now resides to this day on my neighbours' garage roof where it was unceremoniously turfed and a Metcal PS900 purchased.

My the time you've got it fit for purpose you could have bought something far better or staved off your inevitable deathbed regrets by a few more hours :)

And mine both just keep working and working and working... happily side x side with my MetCal. Well, if I ever get it back...  :palm:

mnem
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alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71171 on: October 04, 2020, 07:55:18 pm »
No no no metcal is the solution


As used by professionals...



I will never use another iron. I've used Pace, Weller, Antex shit for years and even the bottom end Metcal burns them a new asshole.

Well, if the $30 orange POS ever does blow up I'll consider a Metcal. But for right now it does what I need and I'm happy with it.
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71172 on: October 04, 2020, 08:00:32 pm »
Hakko is utter shite compared to even a used MetCal ( or even one of their new entry level units), which one can buy cheaper, so fuck Hakko.

Yes fuck Hakko. I was going to buy a mid range Hakko unit here when I the T12 blew up. Turns out all the resellers here are price gouging or working on some backwards "call us and we'll add VAT and extortionate delivery fees" mode. And they will not honour B2C statutory warranties here. On top of that they are fucking expensive anyway for some reason. So headed over to RS, found that the Metcal PS900 was cheaper than the FX951 and it was on the way before I'd even thought about it.

I had a Weller WTCP51 before that T12, confident that it was going to be equally as good as my old PS2D. The PS2D and older TCP irons were much better than the new ones are with the two part tips and the damn tips are not compatible?!?!?! Argh

I miss my first proper iron now which was my father's old Weller PU-2D. I may buy one as a cheap backup iron if one crosses my path.

Well, if the $30 orange POS ever does blow up I'll consider a Metcal. But for right now it does what I need and I'm happy with it.

Good approach  :-+

TBH it's like swapping a magic marker for a fountain pen. Your writing might still be shit but at least you don't look like an idiot holding it :-DD

And mine both just keep working and working and working... happily side x side with my MetCal. Well, if I ever get it back...  :palm:

I take issue with that. The design is faulty. It works by coincidental rather than intentional engineering, until it doesn't at which point, phut! Right in the middle of a project is not when you want your tools to fall apart because it's thoroughly demotivating.

Right off to buy a spare Metcal cartridge just in case  :-DD
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71173 on: October 04, 2020, 08:02:44 pm »
New RPN group shot.  >:D >:D A few updates since the last one. The 48G and 12C, in particular. I have two 15Cs and two 16Cs but I opted not to put them in for compactness of the shot.

very pretty.  goes without saying that they would look even better laid out in front of the starboard track of a d9 cat.

 
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Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71174 on: October 04, 2020, 08:41:56 pm »
Re Metcall, I agree generally lovely tools but my first (and only) one mx500- the power supply stopped working within an hour of new, took the supplier 3months to sort it out, my JBC and weller (wd1000) have never missed a beat. But have to say - if you want to solder to a heatsink the metcal is da bomb.
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 


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