Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[SilverSolder]

he was about 45 and we were pretty sure he had a thing going with the 19 year old red head department secretary.

that man is still a god to me.   (rest in peace doc)

Why is it always the redheads that lead you to drunkenness and debauchery? 

(I met my batshit crazy at work too) 

Never a good idea having a relationship with anyone from work, let alone a batshit crazy redhead 

Here I was, thinking it sounded like an EXCELLENT idea! 

[SilverSolder]

For most modern cars even a basic scan tool is not enough. You need proper diagnostics specific to the car just to do routine maintenance. I've seen someone nearly scrap a car because it was not running properly after a cambelt change. The garage didn't know that you had to do a "phonic wheel" (Cam /crankshaft reluctance sensor) re-learn after changing the belt. They wanted £300 to take the head off and look at the valves. Literally 3 minutes with a laptop and CAN interface sorted it.

If the PC diagnostics are not enough Pico Technology's PC based 'scopes do CAN and other serial protocols, even ARINC 429) as standard and their "Automotive" range has comprehensive diagnostic software for anything from poor compression (using just a DC Clamp ammeter on the battery lead, think about it) to suspension and transmission faults by vibration analysis.

Was scammed by a car sales shithead in Emden. They sold a RR Discovery with a broken air suspension (which would not have been the problem). The real problem was that some italian hot shot managed to put in an ECU which was not programmed to the car, meaning that there was a VIN mismatch in 4 ECUs (the RR Discovery 3 has 23 ECUs in total) and RR does not provide reprogramming. If you try to program in a spare suspension compressor, the ECU will crosscheck the VINs and, if it finds a mismatch, will brick the car by activating the anti theft instant boat anchor program.

RR offered to swap out ALL ECUs (at up to 2500 quid a piece, that would have been a real bargain). To get access to some specific programming options, I would have had to drive the car (with the defunct air suspension) to London to some special RR shop to get some dudes to reflash those microcontrollers with an in system programmer.

Great.
This was a total write off. Either would have been a no go as the costs far exceeded the value of the car.

I am praying to Thor to smite that Emden guy with his hammer (or throw a meteor onto Emden, which ever is easier).

So now I have this specific car tester (Autel MD806) https://www.ebay.de/itm/Autel-MD806-Pro-Profi-Diagnoseger%C3%A4t-f%C3%BCr-45-Fahrzeugmarken-ALLE-SYSTEM-OBD2-MD808/183843777999?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

which I am taking along to every used car I look at. Found a couple of used cars that would have been  real bad deals, so this thing has already paid for itself.

It does to crosschecking of error codes in all ECUs and is vendor specific and multi protocol. It also allows to reset oil change intervals and initiate catalytic converter cleaning cycles.

All in all, highly recommended for quick inspection of used cars and all those things you need advanced diag for. It does not do programming though, the programmers are ten times as expensive.

You can even get scan tools for your phone, and a dongle that turns the OBDII port into a wi-fi access point...   Good enough for Australia, for less than $20! 

It is amazing how some manufacturers are able to make their cars obsolete faster by preventing the use of re-cycled parts...    Obviously cars like that are to be avoided, unless you have an excess of $$$ that you like smearing around!

[Specmaster]

For most modern cars even a basic scan tool is not enough. You need proper diagnostics specific to the car just to do routine maintenance. I've seen someone nearly scrap a car because it was not running properly after a cambelt change. The garage didn't know that you had to do a "phonic wheel" (Cam /crankshaft reluctance sensor) re-learn after changing the belt. They wanted £300 to take the head off and look at the valves. Literally 3 minutes with a laptop and CAN interface sorted it.

If the PC diagnostics are not enough Pico Technology's PC based 'scopes do CAN and other serial protocols, even ARINC 429) as standard and their "Automotive" range has comprehensive diagnostic software for anything from poor compression (using just a DC Clamp ammeter on the battery lead, think about it) to suspension and transmission faults by vibration analysis.

Was scammed by a car sales shithead in Emden. They sold a RR Discovery with a broken air suspension (which would not have been the problem). The real problem was that some italian hot shot managed to put in an ECU which was not programmed to the car, meaning that there was a VIN mismatch in 4 ECUs (the RR Discovery 3 has 23 ECUs in total) and RR does not provide reprogramming. If you try to program in a spare suspension compressor, the ECU will crosscheck the VINs and, if it finds a mismatch, will brick the car by activating the anti theft instant boat anchor program.

RR offered to swap out ALL ECUs (at up to 2500 quid a piece, that would have been a real bargain). To get access to some specific programming options, I would have had to drive the car (with the defunct air suspension) to London to some special RR shop to get some dudes to reflash those microcontrollers with an in system programmer.

Great.
This was a total write off. Either would have been a no go as the costs far exceeded the value of the car.

I am praying to Thor to smite that Emden guy with his hammer (or throw a meteor onto Emden, which ever is easier).

So now I have this specific car tester (Autel MD806) https://www.ebay.de/itm/Autel-MD806-Pro-Profi-Diagnoseger%C3%A4t-f%C3%BCr-45-Fahrzeugmarken-ALLE-SYSTEM-OBD2-MD808/183843777999?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

which I am taking along to every used car I look at. Found a couple of used cars that would have been  real bad deals, so this thing has already paid for itself.

It does to crosschecking of error codes in all ECUs and is vendor specific and multi protocol. It also allows to reset oil change intervals and initiate catalytic converter cleaning cycles.

All in all, highly recommended for quick inspection of used cars and all those things you need advanced diag for. It does not do programming though, the programmers are ten times as expensive.

Totally agree, they are really worth it, I have a Carista for my car but these are specific to your type of car, the one you have is a generic to most cars. https://caristaapp.com/

[Saskia]

Minor correction: it was not RR but LR that wanted to swap out all ecus. I cannot afford RR, but I will not buy another LR. Or Mercedes for similar reasons.

[Kosmic]

Top side of the pcb:

Interesting, you got an original agilent 1822-0639 in there. When you leave it connected to your PC, does it become hot? Is it still working ?

[bd139]

Minor correction: it was not RR but LR that wanted to swap out all ecus. I cannot afford RR, but I will not buy another LR. Or Mercedes for similar reasons.

I wouldn’t buy anything Land Rover these days. Total shit.

[tonyalbus]

tinySA review.... fresh.. still hot..

[bd139]

Ooh ooh ooh watching now 

[Cerebus]

Why is it always the redheads that lead you to drunkenness and debauchery? 

Good luck? 

[bd139]

tinySA review.... fresh.. still hot..

That’s pretty damn excellent actually. Will order one tomorrow. Thanks for the review 

Why is it always the redheads that lead you to drunkenness and debauchery? 

Good luck? 

Other way round usually I find with the causality relation between drunk and redheads. Actually I got so drunk once one punched me in the face. I’m wondering if there is a hysteresis curve where you drink so much they turn from crazy to evil.

[Kosmic]

You can easily do better for a lot less. I have $150 tied up in this little beast, repair parts included. For the very few times I need a portable scope, I can quite happily spend $100 on a decent small sine-wave inverter to plug into one of my RC LiPos (another $75 with a charger if I bought it again) and have an actual oscilloscope for far less than $600, or about what the fnirsi costs.

If you ever go out with your big CRT scope and your lipo batteries, please take some pictures. I want to see this 

Seriously, if the form factor is more important than performances, why not ? personally I use my single channel FNIRSI scope to poke power supplies. It's working for me.

[SilverSolder]

tinySA review.... fresh.. still hot..

It is pretty amazing what can be done these days...    If the trend continues, the screen will only be visible under a microscope! 

[mnementh]

[...] I doubt it [crude scope] would even really be adequate for Automotive Tech use.

Nothing is too crude for Automotive Tech.  I fixed the A/C in my car over the weekend, using one of these:

   Yes, that really is an incandescent bulb!  - and you don't want anything else.  This is all analog, all the time! 

I have several of those... one more than 30 years old, and another with a 10m GND lead. They are not the ONLY diag tool you need nowadays; nor even is a DMM adequate all the time.

There are a lot of scenarios where a scope is actually useful; a lot of LVDS in a modern automobile... sensors which need testing and data paths where you actually need to be able to confirm signal integrity.

I'm not certain the fnirsi would even be useful for THAT. 

And this goes back decades... I've done diag where I needed a real 'scope even back in the days of the K-car.

mnem
 

Yep, I do sometimes dig out more serious equipment, but it is surprising how often you can get away with nothing other than the scan tool and one of these lights...


Did you ever use one of those old Sun ignition scopes, where you could literally see the spark plug voltages?  Now that's a serious oscilloscope...

LOL... I owned that very unit. Honestly, I used the gauges more than the scope; it was kewl to diag point ignition, and would help you identify a coil that's breaking down on a electronic ignition unit, but as a 'scope it was horrible. Their idea of precision cal'd was display voltage accurate within half a KV between 10-40KV. 

Also, not really a 'scope as we know it; just a yoke-deflection analog TV monitor with a lot of amplification on a inductive pickup with a very low, very narrow useful bandwidth. 

mnem
 

[mnementh]

he was about 45 and we were pretty sure he had a thing going with the 19 year old red head department secretary.

that man is still a god to me.   (rest in peace doc)

Why is it always the redheads that lead you to drunkenness and debauchery?    (I met my batshit crazy at work too) 

Because like all women of character (not necessarily good character; just those possessed of some actual character), most normal men need to get half-cocked to screw up the courage to even talk to 'em.

mnem
Inconvenient females: The only kind worth the effort.

[mnementh]

Minor correction: it was not RR but LR that wanted to swap out all ecus. I cannot afford RR, but I will not buy another LR. Or Mercedes for similar reasons.

I've owned 3 Mercs; loved every one. But they were all quite analog. 

mnem
Some of the relay clusters verged on digital logic, tho...

[Saskia]

We had 4. A W124 which in fact was ok, an R129 500 SL which spent 6 months of the 9 we had it at the shop because something was broken, a brand new c class which broke 8 times in 5 weeks and an A class which decided that suspension does not need springs (they broke, literally). When those were fixed, the injectors gave way and the exhaust got into the air vent and into the inside of the car.
Never again will we buy a Mercedes Benz.

[mnementh]

You can easily do better for a lot less. I have $150 tied up in this little beast, repair parts included. For the very few times I need a portable scope, I can quite happily spend $100 on a decent small sine-wave inverter to plug into one of my RC LiPos (another $75 with a charger if I bought it again) and have an actual oscilloscope for far less than $600, or about what the fnirsi costs.

If you ever go out with your big CRT scope and your lipo batteries, please take some pictures. I want to see this 

Seriously, if the form factor is more important than performances, why not ? personally I use my single channel FNIRSI scope to poke power supplies. It's working for me.

That's completely different; you're using it for the same thing I always kept a Cen-Tech or similar POS DMM in the drawer: to be a sacrificial element for when I wanted ta do sumt'in stoopit.

But I dunno... I mean, these things cost real money; buy a couple of 'em and you're up there in 1054Zed or even half-decent Siglent money. For the signal fidelity of the things... which, from all the teardowns is horrid, why would I want any scope that pretty much lies tooya, even if it is portable?

I used my 2230 for that previously mentioned diag work on a K-car. Compared to dragging that around, a little 54645A is VERY portable; feels barely heavier than a 1054Zed.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

We had 4. A W124 which in fact was ok, an R129 500 SL which spent 6 months of the 9 we had it at the shop because something was broken, a brand new c class which broke 8 times in 5 weeks and an A class which decided that suspension does not need springs (they broke, literally). When those were fixed, the injectors gave way and the exhaust got into the air vent and into the inside of the car.
Never again will we buy a Mercedes Benz.

My newest was a w124. That thing was the closest to my beloved Eldorados; literally like driving down the road in your living room. Everything within arm's reach. I fixed the HL wipers twice before I gave up on them... other than that everything still worked when I sold it at 225Kmi. Even the butt-warmers. 

mnem
*toddles off to ded* 

[SilverSolder]

[...] I doubt it [crude scope] would even really be adequate for Automotive Tech use.

Nothing is too crude for Automotive Tech.  I fixed the A/C in my car over the weekend, using one of these:

   Yes, that really is an incandescent bulb!  - and you don't want anything else.  This is all analog, all the time! 

I have several of those... one more than 30 years old, and another with a 10m GND lead. They are not the ONLY diag tool you need nowadays; nor even is a DMM adequate all the time.

There are a lot of scenarios where a scope is actually useful; a lot of LVDS in a modern automobile... sensors which need testing and data paths where you actually need to be able to confirm signal integrity.

I'm not certain the fnirsi would even be useful for THAT. 

And this goes back decades... I've done diag where I needed a real 'scope even back in the days of the K-car.

mnem
 

Yep, I do sometimes dig out more serious equipment, but it is surprising how often you can get away with nothing other than the scan tool and one of these lights...


Did you ever use one of those old Sun ignition scopes, where you could literally see the spark plug voltages?  Now that's a serious oscilloscope...

LOL... I owned that very unit. Honestly, I used the gauges more than the scope; it was kewl to diag point ignition, and would help you identify a coil that's breaking down on a electronic ignition unit, but as a 'scope it was horrible. Their idea of precision cal'd was display voltage accurate within half a KV between 10-40KV. 

Also, not really a 'scope as we know it; just a yoke-deflection analog TV monitor with a lot of amplification on a inductive pickup with a very low, very narrow useful bandwidth. 

mnem
 

Haha that's funny, I only used one once or twice - once, I was able to correctly diagnose a worn timing chain, as you could see the timing jittering on the oscilloscope screen and I concluded that could probably only happen if there was a lot of play in the drive to the distributor...     It is also interesting how the voltage on the plugs go up when you load the engine (blip the throttle)...  so as a learning tool, it was definitely useful.  I'm not sure there are any modern equivalents -  with the advent of on-plug coils, where would you even connect the probes...  so this kind of stuff is probably only seen in research labs nowadays...

Re the little lightbulb probe - it was enough to trace the drive for the A/C clutch and verify that the relay was not working properly.  It is refreshing to work with such a simple tool, no computers, just a man and his light bulb! 

[mnementh]

   eBay auction: #333406543805   

I'd love to have just eBay's cut of that summitch. 

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a acquisition mallet*

[0culus]

We had 4. A W124 which in fact was ok, an R129 500 SL which spent 6 months of the 9 we had it at the shop because something was broken, a brand new c class which broke 8 times in 5 weeks and an A class which decided that suspension does not need springs (they broke, literally). When those were fixed, the injectors gave way and the exhaust got into the air vent and into the inside of the car.
Never again will we buy a Mercedes Benz.

My newest was a w124. That thing was the closest to my beloved Eldorados; literally like driving down the road in your living room. Everything within arm's reach. I fixed the HL wipers twice before I gave up on them... other than that everything still worked when I sold it at 225Kmi. Even the butt-warmers. 

mnem
*toddles off to ded* 

The W124 cars were the last Mercs made to a specification and not a price point. After the 1992 model year, they rapidly cheapened things up due to pressure fro Japanese competition (Lexus). I have the last laugh though. My 1992 400E still runs great and most of the contemporary Lexuses are in junkyards now. Almost never see them on the road, and if you do they are heaps. Tons of W124 and prior Mercs still on the road though. You take care of them, and they will take care of you.  I'm also fortunate enough to have an excellent shop locally that specializes in older Mercedes for the big work when it needs done.

[Kosmic]

   eBay auction: #333406543805   

I'd love to have just eBay's cut of that summitch. 

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a acquisition mallet*

I wonder if they also found it at the military dump.

[Saskia]

We had 4. A W124 which in fact was ok, an R129 500 SL which spent 6 months of the 9 we had it at the shop because something was broken, a brand new c class which broke 8 times in 5 weeks and an A class which decided that suspension does not need springs (they broke, literally). When those were fixed, the injectors gave way and the exhaust got into the air vent and into the inside of the car.
Never again will we buy a Mercedes Benz.

My newest was a w124. That thing was the closest to my beloved Eldorados; literally like driving down the road in your living room. Everything within arm's reach. I fixed the HL wipers twice before I gave up on them... other than that everything still worked when I sold it at 225Kmi. Even the butt-warmers. 

mnem
*toddles off to ded* 

The W124 cars were the last Mercs made to a specification and not a price point. After the 1992 model year, they rapidly cheapened things up due to pressure fro Japanese competition (Lexus). I have the last laugh though. My 1992 400E still runs great and most of the contemporary Lexuses are in junkyards now. Almost never see them on the road, and if you do they are heaps. Tons of W124 and prior Mercs still on the road though. You take care of them, and they will take care of you.  I'm also fortunate enough to have an excellent shop locally that specializes in older Mercedes for the big work when it needs done.

The R129 is the same vintage as the W124 and still a piece of cow dung.

TBH I prefer an old Expedition or Tahoe to a MB any time.
I had several Lexus, my best one was a first series GS300, which I Was stupid enough to trade in for the MB which broke down all the time. When I complained to MB, their center in Mayence told me that being just a steenkin c class customer I should be glad they were fixing it under warranty in the first place. I dumped that one and had an LS400 2 days later ( I was earning good money at that time).the worst Lexus I had was an IS 220d which had a lot of issues.

[0culus]

We had 4. A W124 which in fact was ok, an R129 500 SL which spent 6 months of the 9 we had it at the shop because something was broken, a brand new c class which broke 8 times in 5 weeks and an A class which decided that suspension does not need springs (they broke, literally). When those were fixed, the injectors gave way and the exhaust got into the air vent and into the inside of the car.
Never again will we buy a Mercedes Benz.

My newest was a w124. That thing was the closest to my beloved Eldorados; literally like driving down the road in your living room. Everything within arm's reach. I fixed the HL wipers twice before I gave up on them... other than that everything still worked when I sold it at 225Kmi. Even the butt-warmers. 

mnem
*toddles off to ded* 

The W124 cars were the last Mercs made to a specification and not a price point. After the 1992 model year, they rapidly cheapened things up due to pressure fro Japanese competition (Lexus). I have the last laugh though. My 1992 400E still runs great and most of the contemporary Lexuses are in junkyards now. Almost never see them on the road, and if you do they are heaps. Tons of W124 and prior Mercs still on the road though. You take care of them, and they will take care of you.  I'm also fortunate enough to have an excellent shop locally that specializes in older Mercedes for the big work when it needs done.

The R129 is the same vintage as the W124 and still a piece of cow dung.

TBH I prefer an old Expedition or Tahoe to a MB any time.
I had several Lexus, my best one was a first series GS300, which I Was stupid enough to trade in for the MB which broke down all the time. When I complained to MB, their center in Mayence told me that being just a steenkin c class customer I should be glad they were fixing it under warranty in the first place. I dumped that one and had an LS400 2 days later ( I was earning good money at that time).the worst Lexus I had was an IS 220d which had a lot of issues.

That may be true, but I stand by that the W124 300 and 400Es are well build cars with a lot of life. Lots of the former still on the road here. Fewer of the latter because they were more expensive but not as high falutin as the larger 500E.

[Ice-Tea]

   eBay auction: #333406543805   

I'd love to have just eBay's cut of that summitch. 

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a acquisition mallet*

I wonder if they also found it at the military dump.

Think the fee only applies to the first 1k slice? Not sure..