Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Based on that experience and my experience with the Tiffany process, my surmise (as in my post above) was that functionally there was little difference. The stuff bonds pretty well, but certainly can be peeled up if you try to or if you overheat it. I would guess that Tiffany's foil was coated with an organic epoxy based on the time period in which he developed the process; no idea if that is still the case with modern equivalents.

You piqued my curiosity; I went on a hunt. Apparently the original Tiffany process involved wrapping copper foil around the edges of each piece of glass, assembling them all with temporary tacks in a wooden mould and lead soldering the backside of the abutting copper foils together in a way that the lead didn't show on the outside. Then it was all patinated, further hiding the lead soldering.

Close. 3D objects like lampshades are assembled with pushpins and tack joints on a wooden mold. The foil is usually then soldered from both sides, at least that's how we were taught to do it in our classes. This fills all gaps and activates the entirety of the adhesive. Afterwards, both sides are brushed with with the hydrated copper sulphate solution, which patinas both the copper and the lead a dull flat black/dark grey almost instantly. Then everything is rinsed with water liberally, as the patina can eat away the underside of the foil if left behind.

Large flat panels are handled differently; well, I guess the mold is just a sheet of plywood on your work bench. In the traditional form they use brass rods soldered to the outer frame, then anchored with copper rings to strategic points in the body of the work. This keeps a large panel from sagging/bowing out in the middle, the same as the traditional stained glass constructed using lead came. Nowadays, as it is so hard to clean these things safely, it is common practice to sandwich the work between layers of plate glass.

IIRC, my mom did a lot of business with Delphi Glass; pretty sure that's where she got her foils from: https://www.delphiglass.com/search?searchtext=foil

mnem
 

[Wolfgang]

I am particularly unhappy right now.

I have low expectations for the next year.

I have told my daughter thant I will regard it as a success if we are both alive in a years time.

Emigrate. But where ?? 

[mnementh]

well i really wanted to see the bodge that stayed in. med tried the direct approach and failed. figured that a diversion might provoke a result.

BUT.....it looks like the dragon is listening to the voice that read the counterinsurgency field manual.  (or maybe the voice that read sun tzu)

Listening to both those voices and the one that read Nietzsche, but mostly my grand-dad who many times warned that "Every detail you volunteer is a nail they'll use in your coffin." 

mnem
Nietzsche was a narcissitic putz.
 

[Saskia]

we don't have an operational space colony ...

god is dead. Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead. God.

[bd139]

1707b home. It's fucked. CRT has gassed out, clearly has been dropped. Not a problem. All I want is its organs. So as the first part of the autopsy, we have a power supply board.

Spot the clear sign of a careless/clueless owner. First one who gets it gets bugger all other than disappointment.

[med6753]

That fuse with the label is clearly the wrong type.

What's my prize? 

[bd139]

Bingo - standard 3A "blow some time in the future" plug fuse in UK 

Prize? You want a prize? Go enjoy your air con 

[mnementh]

Well, maybe you'll be lucky and that fuse blew when the heater burned out some time after the drop damage; could mean all the other internal organs escaped harm. 

mnem
 

[mabehem]

I sold a Tek AWG2021 in a parking lot yesterday. I interestingly felt like a dealer.

Imagine the empty parking lot of a shopping mall. I'm outside my car checking my phone. The client arrive and park his BMW nearby. I open the trunk of my car. He inspects the goods then satisfied, pay me cash.

Yeah, I felt the same! The AWG works great BTW. The fun part will be to build a GPIB controller interface now.
Thanks! 

Welcome to this stange club mabehem!
we allready made you a junkie, or atleast feel like one 

Welcome to a fellow Canuck! (Okay; I'm a wannabe Canuck, but we still haven't given up on the dream) There's the Neverending Taco Truck in the corner, beanflying is AWOL IRL ATM, but his coffee bar pretty much runs on autopilot (his secrets guard themselves) and the crusty old Aardvark in the corner is mostly harmless, unless you see him with his conversational cutlery. Watch out for the attitudinally maladjusted smurf running around with a can of blue spray paint tho... unless you fancy a change of your personal scenery. 

Just be aware that the pervy little dwagon fancier position is already taken; get your own schtick. 

mnem

Thanks for the welcome Guys,

I'm not new to TAS but I'm trying to control myself. ;-)
I already have the following:
- a Telequipment S32a scope circa 1965 (as old as I am) and an AVO model 8 multimeter that one of my dad's friend gave me a long time ago. The S32a is recapped and fully functional.
- 2 Fluke DMMS (one is dark grey).
- 3 years ago I snatched a Tek 2465 in fully functional order off eBay. It had broken feet and 4 missing buttons that  I 3D printed with good results. I already have new caps for it but need time to tackle this.
- I got myself a Rigol DS1057Z with all the options for my birthday in 2018.
- I just got the AWG2021 that works flawlessly as far as I can tell.
- I also have 2 antique radios but I think I'm stretching the WAFs with these! 

So much for purchasing something that needs TLC! I'll try to build the AR488 GPIB-USB interface so I can control the AWG.

I don't like old or vintage computers but I love old analog gear.

Mario

[med6753]

Thanks for the welcome Guys,

I'm not new to TAS but I'm trying to control myself. ;-)
I already have the following:
- a Telequipment S32a scope circa 1965 (as old as I am) and an AVO model 8 multimeter that one of my dad's friend gave me a long time ago. The S32a is recapped and fully functional.
- 2 Fluke DMMS (one is dark grey).
- 3 years ago I snatched a Tek 2465 in fully functional order off eBay. It had broken feet and 4 missing buttons that  I 3D printed with good results. I already have new caps for it but need time to tackle this.
- I got myself a Rigol DS1057Z with all the options for my birthday in 2018.
- I just got the AWG2021 that works flawlessly as far as I can tell.
- I also have 2 antique radios but I think I'm stretching the WAFs with these! 

So much for purchasing something that needs TLC! I'll try to build the AR488 GPIB-USB interface so I can control the AWG.

I don't like old or vintage computers but I love old analog gear.

Mario

Here is a detailed procedure for re-capping the PSU in the 2465.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg1658102/#msg1658102

[mnementh]

Urrrgh. Of all the properties we've looked at in the last week; the only one that appears willing to make a deal with us is the one listed by Master Singh (no, really; that's on his sign) in a side x side duplex which reeks of curry.  All  aside, we're seriously considering it because of the location close to wifey's new job-ette and the fact it has a nice cool basement for my workbench. 

mnem
Ifni, come on... you can do better. I'm begging here...

[mabehem]

Thanks med6753 for the link. I already went through all of EEVblog and bookmarked it for that.

You are like the e46fanatics but for electronics!

BTW, if anyone is interested in the sketchup files for the 2465 buttons and feet, let me know and I'll put them in the files section.

Mario

[med6753]

Urrrgh. Of all the properties we've looked at in the last week; the only one that appears willing to make a deal with us is the one listed by Master Singh (no, really; that's on his sign) in a side x side duplex which reeks of curry.  All  aside, we're seriously considering it because of the location close to wifey's new job-ette and the fact it has a nice cool basement for my workbench. 

mnem
Ifni, come on... you can do better. I'm begging here...

Years ago I worked with an Indian who's name was "Surrenda Singh". He earned the nickname of "I give up". 

[med6753]

Thanks med6753 for the link. I already went through all of EEVblog and bookmarked it for that.

You are like the e46fanatics but for electronics!

BTW, if anyone is interested in the sketchup files for the 2465 buttons and feet, let me know and I'll put them in the files section.

Mario

You're welcome and thanks.  Believe it or not up until about 6 years ago I was totally inactive in the hobby and had been for many years. I'm making up for lost time.   

Edit....and I don't own a BMW. 

[mansaxel]

Anyway, the only time I 'lost' when being the first person to utter a price was negotiating our reseller discount with a Cisco distributor. Cisco and their distributors were known to be hard to get resale discounts out of. I knew that the discount that the distributor were likely to be getting themselves from Cisco was 50% and I would have counted myself lucky to to get a 30% discount. So, just for a laugh, my opening bit was 50% "based on such-and-such a volume in the next year". "OK." "Sorry what was that?" "OK, 50%." I'd just got 50% discount on my opening bid. Don't get me wrong, that was a great discount for Cisco kit, but the immediate "OK" tells me that if I'd played harder I'd have got perhaps another 5%, but the game was already over and trying to haggle further would have been a risky strategy.

I'd be very depressed if we did not get 70% discount on Cisco gear. I usually say "only idiots and counties pay list for Cisco". Not even the Defence Materials Establishment paid near list. It is, though, harder to get the really good prices if you're in their corporate bracket. Service provider customers have better discounts.

Their (Ciscos) cost hovers in the "15% of list" range.  And, for optics, one pays what the chinese (mostly https://fs.com) charge. Either to the chinese, or to ${vendor}

So, moral of the story. If you are the first out of the gate you're the one who sets expectations for a negotiation. The final result is likely to settle between what you say and the next psychologically 'round' figure up or down from where you started (depending on whether you're buying or selling respectively). If you let the other guy speak first he gets to set that range, not you. So you're best off being the first to put a number out there. Military analogy, it's better if you get to pick the battlefield, not the other side.

It helps to have competition, too. Those who believe they've got an unique advantage are harder to squeeze.

[mabehem]

Thanks med6753 for the link. I already went through all of EEVblog and bookmarked it for that.

You are like the e46fanatics but for electronics!

BTW, if anyone is interested in the sketchup files for the 2465 buttons and feet, let me know and I'll put them in the files section.

Mario

You're welcome and thanks.  Believe it or not up until about 6 years ago I was totally inactive in the hobby and had been for many years. I'm making up for lost time.   

Edit....and I don't own a BMW. 

Well the only way I found to afford these beasts on wheels if to fix them yourself. Mine is a 2004 so still fixable with not-too-expensive tools. The 2015 X1 we just bought for my wife scares me a little though.

And BTW, I just went through your link and this is new to me. I bookmarked it and will read carefully before proceeding. Oddly enough, my 2465 has the "modern" fan and the bump in the back panel so it is not a retrofit as far as I can see.

Mario
Mario

[tautech]

Thanks med6753 for the link. I already went through all of EEVblog and bookmarked it for that.

You are like the e46fanatics but for electronics!

BTW, if anyone is interested in the sketchup files for the 2465 buttons and feet, let me know and I'll put them in the files section.

Mario

Welcome Mario

We have a special thread for goodies like that:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/

[Cerebus]

Based on that experience and my experience with the Tiffany process, my surmise (as in my post above) was that functionally there was little difference. The stuff bonds pretty well, but certainly can be peeled up if you try to or if you overheat it. I would guess that Tiffany's foil was coated with an organic epoxy based on the time period in which he developed the process; no idea if that is still the case with modern equivalents.

You piqued my curiosity; I went on a hunt. Apparently the original Tiffany process involved wrapping copper foil around the edges of each piece of glass, assembling them all with temporary tacks in a wooden mould and lead soldering the backside of the abutting copper foils together in a way that the lead didn't show on the outside. Then it was all patinated, further hiding the lead soldering.

Close. 3D objects like lampshades are assembled with pushpins and tack joints on a wooden mold. The foil is usually then soldered from both sides, at least that's how we were taught to do it in our classes. This fills all gaps and activates the entirety of the adhesive. Afterwards, both sides are brushed with with the hydrated copper sulphate solution, which patinas both the copper and the lead a dull flat black/dark grey almost instantly. Then everything is rinsed with water liberally, as the patina can eat away the underside of the foil if left behind.

Large flat panels are handled differently; well, I guess the mold is just a sheet of plywood on your work bench. In the traditional form they use brass rods soldered to the outer frame, then anchored with copper rings to strategic points in the body of the work. This keeps a large panel from sagging/bowing out in the middle, the same as the traditional stained glass constructed using lead came. Nowadays, as it is so hard to clean these things safely, it is common practice to sandwich the work between layers of plate glass.

IIRC, my mom did a lot of business with Delphi Glass; pretty sure that's where she got her foils from: https://www.delphiglass.com/search?searchtext=foil

mnem
 

Well if you knew how it was made, why were you proposing that it was done with some sort of "organic epoxy glue"

[Cerebus]

1707b home. It's fucked. CRT has gassed out, clearly has been dropped. Not a problem. All I want is its organs. So as the first part of the autopsy, we have a power supply board.

Spot the clear sign of a careless/clueless owner. First one who gets it gets bugger all other than disappointment.

You missed out the "Bwa Haa Haa!".

[Kosmic]

I sold a Tek AWG2021 in a parking lot yesterday. I interestingly felt like a dealer.

Imagine the empty parking lot of a shopping mall. I'm outside my car checking my phone. The client arrive and park his BMW nearby. I open the trunk of my car. He inspects the goods then satisfied, pay me cash.

Yeah, I felt the same! The AWG works great BTW. The fun part will be to build a GPIB controller interface now.
Thanks! 

Well, internet is definitely small. I thought I was hiding in the deep dark web.

For the GPIB controller, if you want to use official applications from Tektronix, make sure you make / buy one compatible with the Visa standard. I was using a Agilent 82357B and it was working fine.

[mansaxel]

8060A arrived. <snip> Pictures forthcoming.

Aaaaand...

AC Volts, sine 1KHz 10V p2p from my FeelTech: http://vvv.besserwisser.org/Public/Bilder/8060-ACV.jpeg



DC Volts, just my Uni-T lab PSU dialed in just below 2V: http://vvv.besserwisser.org/Public/Bilder/8060-DCV.jpeg



My 1KΩ resistor, selected from a large batch of 1%ers (which is silly, 'cause I've got both a new Vishay 0,01% and an old DDR 1KΩ reference resistor, but they weren't there....) shows up as 1,000 KΩ. Milliampères are close too, but I discovered a blown mA fuse in the 974A, so no pic there; I had to roughly compare using the 10A range, and on ne fait comme ça, jamais!

I had to open it to free the buttons under the display; they were jammed under the edges of the case, probably because the seller was in a hurry to pack it up. No harm done. I've got a shopping cart at Mouser with all the 'lytes per Mr Modemhead's blog post, and recapping and recal will follow.

[Specmaster]

bloody hell.

Hubby in hospital with heart issues. Undergoing angio right now.

Why does my life always kick me in my nonexistent balls ? 

That sure sucks, keep strong and think positive thoughts, take care. 

[Cerebus]

Their (Ciscos) cost hovers in the "15% of list" range.  And, for optics, one pays what the chinese (mostly https://fs.com) charge. Either to the chinese, or to ${vendor}

Sounds about right. The 'traditional' manufacturing price structure was "take your manufacturing cost and multiply by three or four to get your list price" - you then charged your distributor 50-66% of list. That model would give the distributor roughly a 50% share of the profits with a little bit of wiggle room for discount but certainly not as much as 50% or more of list.

Cisco's pricing on optics was, let's say, imaginatively high. I don't know if they ever saw sense and reduced it any as it was enough to ensure that I never even considered going to Cisco for optics. There's a been a glut of perfectly good 2nd hand optics on the market for the past couple of years, I don't think I've even spent £10 for any of the 10Gb optics I've bought during that time.

[Kosmic]

bloody hell.

Hubby in hospital with heart issues. Undergoing angio right now.

Why does my life always kick me in my nonexistent balls ? 

Best of luck! It's incredible what they can do in term of heart disease these days. My father in law had some issues couple of months ago and they patched him up pretty quickly (changed a valve).

[mansaxel]

Cisco's pricing on optics was, let's say, imaginatively high. I don't know if they ever saw sense and reduced it any as it was enough to ensure that I never even considered going to Cisco for optics. There's a been a glut of perfectly good 2nd hand optics on the market for the past couple of years, I don't think I've even spent £10 for any of the 10Gb optics I've bought during that time.

They still stick to it, and all the others follow suit. Like it or not, they're the "thought leader" on "silly prices for optics and the associated barrage of FUD about what COULD happen if you DARE to put a Finisar SFP into it instead of a Cisco-rebranded Finisar"   

Post-real -hp- network gear also suffers from it, and is arguably even worse, because you can't type a "secret" command to disable it.