Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[AVGresponding]

Trouble really is not so much the heat as the high humidity that comes with it over here, after a while the fans become ineffective really as the air is already laden with moisture so the fans cease to dry your sweat up. With A/C, it just seems to wick away much more moisture, but like BD said it is so expensive over here to install it for just maybe 2 weeks a year when it would be used. 

I have thought about sitting and also sleeping in the car before but I'm pretty sure that neighbours would object to having a diesel engine running all night long 

Edit:
Plus of course, as one gets older, one cannot handle the heat as well as we used to when we were teens, most of us oldies are carrying too much extra weight, I know I am and nothing seems to shift it either 

You could always make one out of an old fridge.

I made one, it's a bit lashed together, Heath Robinson would be proud, but it's effective, given it only has to deal with a small room.

Bonus is, I can just swap the flexi-ducts over in winter, and have a mild heat source.


EDIT: Just realised this is my 13th post...   

[bd139]

Fuck it. Going for a long walk. It’s either I’m hot or insane and I choose hot.

[Specmaster]

Calibration, another ADANTAGE of some high resolution meters. My Solartron 7071 7.5 / 8.5 digit  (same as 7081 except for Vref "processing") is offically "calibrated for life" at 3 times the 1 year accuracy. That's 60ppm (no counts as they re insignificant)  or 0.006% on DCV. The HP 34401A / 34461A 6.5 digit is 35 PPM after a year.
So I have a DMM that is signifcantly better than any 5.5 digit (good as many 6.5) meters that NEVER needs calibration to officially meet that specification. As a bonus it has 8.5 digit resolution for comparatve measurements.

I don't think 0.006% basic DCV accuracy is "significantly better" than the 0.005% basic DCV accuracy of my 5.5 digit Fluke 8840A. Which doesn't drift. They just don't. At least, not so's you'd notice.

The problem with 8.5 digits as regards practical measuring is more to do with noise introduced to the signal by the setup. It's not really an issue with 5.5 or 6.5 digits, unless your lab is inside an smps anyway, but it starts to become so for 7.5, and is a major problem at 8.5 digits.

I also doubt whether a figure of 0.006% would satisfy any serious metrologist. That lot get grumpy at lack of precision at orders of magnitude better than that!

Lastly, for traceablilty purposes, if I was doing something that required an 8.5 digit meter, I'd want it calibrated every year. Luckily I don't, so I can save my pennies for buying more crusty TE.   

Surely you mean 0.005% is not significantly better than 0.006%  basic DCV accuracy?

[AVGresponding]

Calibration, another ADANTAGE of some high resolution meters. My Solartron 7071 7.5 / 8.5 digit  (same as 7081 except for Vref "processing") is offically "calibrated for life" at 3 times the 1 year accuracy. That's 60ppm (no counts as they re insignificant)  or 0.006% on DCV. The HP 34401A / 34461A 6.5 digit is 35 PPM after a year.
So I have a DMM that is signifcantly better than any 5.5 digit (good as many 6.5) meters that NEVER needs calibration to officially meet that specification. As a bonus it has 8.5 digit resolution for comparatve measurements.

I don't think 0.006% basic DCV accuracy is "significantly better" than the 0.005% basic DCV accuracy of my 5.5 digit Fluke 8840A. Which doesn't drift. They just don't. At least, not so's you'd notice.

The problem with 8.5 digits as regards practical measuring is more to do with noise introduced to the signal by the setup. It's not really an issue with 5.5 or 6.5 digits, unless your lab is inside an smps anyway, but it starts to become so for 7.5, and is a major problem at 8.5 digits.

I also doubt whether a figure of 0.006% would satisfy any serious metrologist. That lot get grumpy at lack of precision at orders of magnitude better than that!

Lastly, for traceablilty purposes, if I was doing something that required an 8.5 digit meter, I'd want it calibrated every year. Luckily I don't, so I can save my pennies for buying more crusty TE.   

Surely you mean 0.005% is not significantly better than 0.006%  basic DCV accuracy?

Dammit, now my post count isn't 13 in binary any more!   

No. Robert was claiming his meter's 0.006% basic DCV accuracy was "significantly better than any 5.5 digit meter". My 8840 is 5.5 digit, and has 0.005% accuracy.
I was saying that 0.006% accuracy isn't significantly better than 0.005%. I didn't bother to point out it's actually worse, didn't think I had to.   

[tggzzz]

Trouble really is not so much the heat as the high humidity that comes with it over here, after a while the fans become ineffective really as the air is already laden with moisture so the fans cease to dry your sweat up. With A/C, it just seems to wick away much more moisture, but like BD said it is so expensive over here to install it for just maybe 2 weeks a year when it would be used. 

Plus of course, as one gets older, one cannot handle the heat as well as we used to when we were teens, most of us oldies are carrying too much extra weight, I know I am and nothing seems to shift it either

I think you ought to be careful about UK vs New York humidity. The average NY August humidity is 75%

Us oldies have too much blubber in the summer, and too little in the winter.

[nixiefreqq]

Calibration, another ADANTAGE of some high resolution meters. My Solartron 7071 7.5 / 8.5 digit  (same as 7081 except for Vref "processing") is offically "calibrated for life" at 3 times the 1 year accuracy. That's 60ppm (no counts as they re insignificant)  or 0.006% on DCV. The HP 34401A / 34461A 6.5 digit is 35 PPM after a year.
So I have a DMM that is signifcantly better than any 5.5 digit (good as many 6.5) meters that NEVER needs calibration to officially meet that specification. As a bonus it has 8.5 digit resolution for comparatve measurements.

I don't think 0.006% basic DCV accuracy is "significantly better" than the 0.005% basic DCV accuracy of my 5.5 digit Fluke 8840A. Which doesn't drift. They just don't. At least, not so's you'd notice.

The problem with 8.5 digits as regards practical measuring is more to do with noise introduced to the signal by the setup. It's not really an issue with 5.5 or 6.5 digits, unless your lab is inside an smps anyway, but it starts to become so for 7.5, and is a major problem at 8.5 digits.

I also doubt whether a figure of 0.006% would satisfy any serious metrologist. That lot get grumpy at lack of precision at orders of magnitude better than that!

Lastly, for traceablilty purposes, if I was doing something that required an 8.5 digit meter, I'd want it calibrated every year. Luckily I don't, so I can save my pennies for buying more crusty TE.   

Surely you mean 0.005% is not significantly better than 0.006%  basic DCV accuracy?

[mansaxel]

Completely agree. My air con in the car has a leak so there’s no escape like that for me  . Best option is probably creeping off up the road and sleeping out in the open.

Just got a red reminder letter from RSGB dressed up like it was some overdue tax bill ffs. Bunch of clowns. Shredded!

Edit: might try sleeping out tonight. Have a nice new tent to play with 

Ahhh, tent sleeping in summer. It's raw, cold, humid and stale air when you go to bed, and when you awake, you're floating from sweat in the sleeping bag, the air (or rather the 90/10 nitrogen/oxygen mix saturated with humidity that replaced it, with a few 100 ppm of flatulence added for the human touch) requires chainsaws to penetrate, and the temperature is 42°C. If I can help it, I'll never sleep another night in a tent. I've got a hammock with integrated tarp and bug net. It is shaded, airy, off the ground and very comfortable.

[bd139]

Depends what tent, where you stick it, when you get in it and when you get out of it

Success is: light weight, under shade with a breeze across it, sunset, sunrise. And leave it open if it’s hot.

Just bought an MSR elixir 1 for autumn and winter usage. It’ll be fine for now as well

[med6753]

Meh.....just flip the switch and turn on the A/C. Screw sleeping in a tent. 

[Robert763]

Calibration, another ADANTAGE of some high resolution meters. My Solartron 7071 7.5 / 8.5 digit  (same as 7081 except for Vref "processing") is offically "calibrated for life" at 3 times the 1 year accuracy. That's 60ppm (no counts as they re insignificant)  or 0.006% on DCV. The HP 34401A / 34461A 6.5 digit is 35 PPM after a year.
So I have a DMM that is signifcantly better than any 5.5 digit (good as many 6.5) meters that NEVER needs calibration to officially meet that specification. As a bonus it has 8.5 digit resolution for comparatve measurements.

I don't think 0.006% basic DCV accuracy is "significantly better" than the 0.005% basic DCV accuracy of my 5.5 digit Fluke 8840A. Which doesn't drift. They just don't. At least, not so's you'd notice.

The problem with 8.5 digits as regards practical measuring is more to do with noise introduced to the signal by the setup. It's not really an issue with 5.5 or 6.5 digits, unless your lab is inside an smps anyway, but it starts to become so for 7.5, and is a major problem at 8.5 digits.

I also doubt whether a figure of 0.006% would satisfy any serious metrologist. That lot get grumpy at lack of precision at orders of magnitude better than that!

Lastly, for traceablilty purposes, if I was doing something that required an 8.5 digit meter, I'd want it calibrated every year. Luckily I don't, so I can save my pennies for buying more crusty TE.   

Well for starters the 8840A 1 year accuracy is only 0.005% on the 2 V DC range worst DC is 0.008% +4 count. And you need it calibrated annually for that.
Yes if you want the full accuracy of the 7071 it needs calibration  but my point was that to use it to 60PPM (typical of a good 5.5 or average 6.5 digit meter accuracy) NO regular calibration is required to maintain traceabilty to national standards. I also paid a lot less for my 7071 than the average ebay selling price of a 8840A 34401A. Your 3340A is good to 60PPM on 20V range for a year after cal my 7071 is good for life.
Comments about noise etc are spurious they affect both meters the same (well 707i better for themal EMF as I have the proper isthermal Ficher connectors). I can easily set set the 7071 to display just 6.5 or 5.5 digits.

[bd139]

Walk cancelled. Surprisingly my 5316A is out for delivery today. Fingers crossed

[Robert763]

Calibration, another ADANTAGE of some high resolution meters. My Solartron 7071 7.5 / 8.5 digit  (same as 7081 except for Vref "processing") is offically "calibrated for life" at 3 times the 1 year accuracy. That's 60ppm (no counts as they re insignificant)  or 0.006% on DCV. The HP 34401A / 34461A 6.5 digit is 35 PPM after a year.
So I have a DMM that is signifcantly better than any 5.5 digit (good as many 6.5) meters that NEVER needs calibration to officially meet that specification. As a bonus it has 8.5 digit resolution for comparatve measurements.

I don't think 0.006% basic DCV accuracy is "significantly better" than the 0.005% basic DCV accuracy of my 5.5 digit Fluke 8840A. Which doesn't drift. They just don't. At least, not so's you'd notice.

The problem with 8.5 digits as regards practical measuring is more to do with noise introduced to the signal by the setup. It's not really an issue with 5.5 or 6.5 digits, unless your lab is inside an smps anyway, but it starts to become so for 7.5, and is a major problem at 8.5 digits.

I also doubt whether a figure of 0.006% would satisfy any serious metrologist. That lot get grumpy at lack of precision at orders of magnitude better than that!

Lastly, for traceablilty purposes, if I was doing something that required an 8.5 digit meter, I'd want it calibrated every year. Luckily I don't, so I can save my pennies for buying more crusty TE.   

Surely you mean 0.005% is not significantly better than 0.006%  basic DCV accuracy?

Dammit, now my post count isn't 13 in binary any more!   

No. Robert was claiming his meter's 0.006% basic DCV accuracy was "significantly better than any 5.5 digit meter". My 8840 is 5.5 digit, and has 0.005% accuracy.
I was saying that 0.006% accuracy isn't significantly better than 0.005%. I didn't bother to point out it's actually worse, didn't think I had to.   

But the 8840A IS NOT 0.005% on all ranges, just the 2V DC. 200mV is 0.008% and 1000V 0.007% with annual calibration. (7071 is 0.006 on all ranges for LIFE. Better up to 10 years)

[capt bullshot]

A switch:


And what's on the other side:

[AVGresponding]

I see no need to get my 8840 recalibrated. I had it done once, when I  bought it, a sensible precaution to my mind. As I said, these guys just don't drift (unless you abuse them).

If you got a 7071 for the price I paid for my 8840, that's serious jammy git territory. I've never seen one for less than 3 times that, or I'd already have one! Those blue dot matrix vfd's are lovely... 

I don't see how comments about noise can be spurious; there's more to noise free measurement than just using good leads. I'd argue saying that you can switch down to 6.5 or 5.5 digits is a better candidate for that category, as the point I was making is that achieving worthwhile 8.5 digit measurements requires a great deal of care and attention to detail in your setup.

[AVGresponding]

A switch:


And what's on the other side:

Holy hand-wound resistors Batman!

[FransW]

Metrology, accuracy & precision:

When you need it, use it.
If you do not need it, do not bother.
That is utterly useless.

Compare these wishes with counter requirements:
the shortest imaginable time step is the Planck Time.
With the current understanding it will take around 300
years to get within range of this resolution-accuracy-precision.

At least with the speed of NIST-BIPM improvements which is around 1 decade every 10 years.

Nice climate control if I get the current situation.

Frans

[Robert763]

I see no need to get my 8840 recalibrated. I had it done once, when I  bought it, a sensible precaution to my mind. As I said, these guys just don't drift (unless you abuse them).

If you got a 7071 for the price I paid for my 8840, that's serious jammy git territory. I've never seen one for less than 3 times that, or I'd already have one! Those blue dot matrix vfd's are lovely... 

I don't see how comments about noise can be spurious; there's more to noise free measurement than just using good leads. I'd argue saying that you can switch down to 6.5 or 5.5 digits is a better candidate for that category, as the point I was making is that achieving worthwhile 8.5 digit measurements requires a great deal of care and attention to detail in your setup.

Maybe I didn't make my point clear. While I'm not saying your Fluke 8840 will suddenly become inaccurate 366 days after calibration, clearly it won't, BUT Fluke say it cannot provide traceable measurements to 0.006% (20V range) more than a year after calibration. Conversely Solartron specfically say the 7071 CAN provide traceable measurements to 0.006% for life. I have a 5.5 digit meter that is traceable forever 
I've actually used one in a controlled workshop environment (aerospace) based on this. The Das Veritas auditor complained but after refering it to their metrology SME conceeded it was OK.
I Paid £135 inc shipping for my 7071 and less than £50 each for my 7075s. That included two leads 

[BU508A]

Yeah same. No discord for me. Actually no today for me. I’m going back to bed 

I'm not sure if I can make it to discord tonight. Got an invitation from a good friend of mine.
He needs some support from my cakes for his guests. 

[tggzzz]

Walk cancelled. Surprisingly my 5316A is out for delivery today. Fingers crossed

So now all we have to do is work out a test that can distinguish whether or not you have gone mad. I like a challenge

[Brumby]

So now all we have to do is work out a test that can distinguish whether or not you have gone mad. I like a challenge

Hmmm....

Walk cancelled. Surprisingly my 5316A is out for delivery today.

That's a good sign 

Fingers crossed

.... then again.

[FransW]

Robert,

Audits normally do not bother about the need of your equipment.
They check whether the equipment is used correctly or not and
whether international norms and standards are correctly followed
or not.
Not why. That you have to justify yourself.

Frans

[bd139]

Walk cancelled. Surprisingly my 5316A is out for delivery today. Fingers crossed

So now all we have to do is work out a test that can distinguish whether or not you have gone mad. I like a challenge

No test needed. I am clinically insane.

5316A arrived. Eating lunch first before I open the box.

Place your bets: It’s ex MoD and has channel C. Hopefully it has a TCXO or OCXO in it. MoD used to buy them with them in when they needed 1GHz.

Edit: fairly clean. Basic oscillator  . Gives me an excuse to build an OCXO for it

[nixiefreqq]

Walk cancelled. Surprisingly my 5316A is out for delivery today. Fingers crossed

So now all we have to do is work out a test that can distinguish whether or not you have gone mad. I like a challenge

No test needed. I am clinically insane.

5316A arrived. Eating lunch first before I open the box.

Place your bets: It’s ex MoD and has channel C. Hopefully it has a TCXO or OCXO in it. MoD used to buy them with them in when they needed 1GHz.

fingers are crossed for an ocxo.   

used to find one in beat up hamfest 5328's 4 out of 5 times.


edit    bummer.

[VK5RC]

Snip.......

'No test needed. I am clinically insane.'

That proves that you are sane - catch 22!

[Specmaster]

Trouble really is not so much the heat as the high humidity that comes with it over here, after a while the fans become ineffective really as the air is already laden with moisture so the fans cease to dry your sweat up. With A/C, it just seems to wick away much more moisture, but like BD said it is so expensive over here to install it for just maybe 2 weeks a year when it would be used. 

Plus of course, as one gets older, one cannot handle the heat as well as we used to when we were teens, most of us oldies are carrying too much extra weight, I know I am and nothing seems to shift it either

I think you ought to be careful about UK vs New York humidity. The average NY August humidity is 75%

Us oldies have too much blubber in the summer, and too little in the winter.

That is so true about the blubber. Is the NY humidity so high because of all the water around it then? What I do know is that at least in Med's case, he says F**k the electric bill, run the A/C and I'd be very much in agreement with that notion myself