Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Ice-Tea]

So, the LeCroy I mentioned before made its way cross the pond. Was a bit apprehensive, as I feared the shattered bezel would be indicative of the general state of the machine. It's not. Almost scratch and scuff free. Must have been a fluke accident or inexperienced dissasembly.



Shattered foot in the rear, also common. I should have one laying around somewhere, possibly not the same color, though.




So, all in all not horrible. The DDA-260 is essentially a Wavepro 960 with some additional disk drive manu features no one will ever use (anymore).

Million dollar question (well, maybe a bit less...) is whether I should use this as an excuse to get a 3D printer and print a new front bezel. Would like your take on this. Would a decent 3D printed cover seduce you to pay another, say, 100€? Or would it pull you over the line on this if you would have otherwise left it alone?

Anyone with an opinion?

[tonyalbus]

Yes!! do it

[Ice-Tea]

Because you'd just go for the printer anyways or because it would raise the value of the thing?

Asking for a friend..

[tggzzz]

So, all in all not horrible. The DDA-260 is essentially a Wavepro 960 with some additional disk drive manu features no one will ever use (anymore).

Million dollar question (well, maybe a bit less...) is whether I should use this as an excuse to get a 3D printer and print a new front bezel. Would like your take on this. Would a decent 3D printed cover seduce you to pay another, say, 100€? Or would it pull you over the line on this if you would have otherwise left it alone?

Anyone with an opinion?

Personally I'd like to see a bezel, but I wouldn't want an ABS/PLA one. Neither would I want to spend time fettling with my own printer.

I'd prefer to pay someone to produce either a nylon or SLA bezel to my design. SLA can be surprisingly cheap, but I'm not sure they can print that large.

[Ice-Tea]

Interesting. Begs the question: why?

Did a quick check on a 3D printer around here: they do SLA this size, pricing starts at 300€. Let's not talk about a painted sample...

[tggzzz]

Interesting. Begs the question: why?

Did a quick check on a 3D printer around here: they do SLA this size, pricing starts at 300€. Let's not talk about a painted sample...

For PLA/ABS, the strength and finish compared with nylon/SLA. Cue the usual dissenters saying I'm wrong...

I'd search worldwide before knowing that was the best price for SLA. It is usually priced according to volume of plastic, so hollow sections would be cheaper than solid.

As for thickness, I made an SLA handle for my P6013 12kV probe (the low voltage side!). It was hollow with a 1mm thick wall, and I would prefer it if it flexed a little less. If I made that again I'd make it 1.5mm or possibly 2mm thick. You can see the overall size relative to BNC plug at https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2016/09/11/renovating-a-tektronix-p6013a-12kv-100khz-scope-probe/

I certainly wouldn't want to paint SLA!

[mansaxel]

Straw Poll time.

Ferrules or Bare wire into screw terminals in a mix of Low Voltage DC and Mains AC? I have never used the Round ones in the past or really seen a need for them 

With stranded wire, I'm definitely for ferrules. They greatly reduce the risk of stray wire strands wreaking havoc. I usually end up using them as soon as I've got a screw terminal and a finely stranded wire; say more than 7 strands for 1.5mm² (AWG14ish). A recent example is a connection box where a rubber cable to a circulation pump is connected. Its conductors meet the fixed wire under common screw terminals, and since mixing stranded rubber cable and one conductor PVC cable under one screw is a bad idea it is a natural case for ferrules.

Today's TE arrival:

[Ice-Tea]

I feel like I've seen that probe before 

Interesting. I was thinking ABS so I could smooth things out a bit with acetone...

[BU508A]

Straw Poll time.

Ferrules or Bare wire into screw terminals in a mix of Low Voltage DC and Mains AC? I have never used the Round ones in the past or really seen a need for them 

With stranded wire, I'm definitely for ferrules. They greatly reduce the risk of stray wire strands wreaking havoc. I usually end up using them as soon as I've got a screw terminal and a finely stranded wire; say more than 7 strands for 1.5mm² (AWG14ish). A recent example is a connection box where a rubber cable to a circulation pump is connected. Its conductors meet the fixed wire under common screw terminals, and since mixing stranded rubber cable and one conductor PVC cable under one screw is a bad idea it is a natural case for ferrules.

+1 for ferrules using on stranded wire.
As a tool, I'm using this one from Knipex: 97 53 14 - it goes from 0.08 to 10mm² (AWG 28 to 7)




And this is for our beloved dwagon 

[tggzzz]

I feel like I've seen that probe before 

Interesting. I was thinking ABS so I could smooth things out a bit with acetone...

1: Ah, someone with A Memory.
2: I've heard that is possible.

If you do go the ABS route, you can probably find a local hacker with a printer thinking "how can I use my printer to make cash".

[mansaxel]

As a tool, I'm using this one from Knipex: 97 53 14 - it goes from 0.08 to 10mm² (AWG 28 to 7)

You know that tool collection syndrome is a side effect of TEA, right? Now I want one of those, and it is your fault thanks to you!
Knipex never comes cheap, but always so satisfyingly. I've got the Superknips, a large Zangenschlüssel, a set of flatnose VDE pliers, and I think I inherited a 80s Wasserpumpenzange too, but for the ordinary Wasserpumpenzange and the heavy-duty pipe wrench, I prefer Bahco, even if they now are part of Crap-On and are being used to peddle generic rebranded shit much like Stanley.

[tautech]

Interesting. I was thinking ABS so I could smooth things out a bit with acetone...

IIRC Mechatrommer printed a LeCroy bezel and documented it all.

[Ice-Tea]

Yup, have his 3D step file right here. Otherwise, wouldn't even consider trying

[BU508A]

You know that tool collection syndrome is a side effect of TEA, right? Now I want one of those, and it is your fault thanks to you!
Knipex never comes cheap, but always so satisfyingly. I've got the Superknips, a large Zangenschlüssel, a set of flatnose VDE pliers, and I think I inherited a 80s Wasserpumpenzange too, but for the ordinary Wasserpumpenzange and the heavy-duty pipe wrench, I prefer Bahco, even if they now are part of Crap-On and are being used to peddle generic rebranded shit much like Stanley.

Yes, I know.    Sometimes I'm wandering around in the "Show us your bench" thread and when doing so, I always have a close look at the tools people are using. Always very inspirational.   

For the Knipex: I like this tool. Before I've bought this one I had one of these ugly things:
a NWS Endhülsen-Presszange (Trapez-Pressung) 143T-62-160



They aren't that bad but one thing was really annoying: when you have crimped a ferrule with that, it got always clamped and one have to fumble the wire with the crimped ferrule out of it. If you are working with thin wires, eg. 0.14mm² one has to be cautious not to rip off the wire. With the Knipex: easy-peasy. No problems at all. Never regretted to buy the Knipex, even though I've paid 120 Euros for it.

[VK5RC]

The FG503 dial fix is completed. I printed the dial markings on the clear sticky laser paper flipped horizontally so they would be correct when stuck on the back of the dial. I carefully trimmed the excess material around the plastic dial with a razor blade. I also re-painted the gray center as it was worn when it arrived. I had a modelling color that was almost a perfect match - Tamiya IJN Gray (XF-77).

A couple of friends just left; one was the owner of the Kikusui scope who was here to pick it up. I asked them both to look at the FG503 to see if they could spot anything that looked "home made" on the front panel, but they couldn't. I just have to finish a few cal items and then it can be added to my set of Tektronix plug-ins.

Lovely job.
Where did you get the laser 'paper', do you recall the brand / model number etc?
Rob

[beanflying]

Thanks for the Feedback Ferals 

Strand retention and avoiding the stray issue is a good one and for newbs to avoid the issue as you can check out of the terminal with a better view. I was taught without them and haven't seen the 'need'.

[xrunner]

Lovely job.
Where did you get the laser 'paper', do you recall the brand / model number etc?
Rob

Thank you.  I would have preferred a little bit clearer photo, or even better, a scan of the dial. Perhaps I'll ask someone on the forum that has an FG503 to do one someday.

I got it on Ebay here -

10 FULL Sheets Sticker Paper CLEAR GLOSS ADHESIVE FOR LASER Printer FULL 8.5x11

[Kosmic]

I feel like I've seen that probe before 

Interesting. I was thinking ABS so I could smooth things out a bit with acetone...

I also have a DDA-260 with a smashed front panel https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2812236/#msg2812236

I tried having someone (supposed pro) print the front panel in ABS but it failed. They told me it was warping too much.

So I now have my own printer and I'm planning to print in 2 parts in PLA. Then use epoxy to smooth the surface. Finishing with paint.

It's a lot of work and will never look like the original. If not for yourself, you should just sell it as is.

[Kosmic]

I feel like I've seen that probe before 

Interesting. I was thinking ABS so I could smooth things out a bit with acetone...

I also have a DDA-260 with a smashed front panel https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2812236/#msg2812236

I tried having someone (supposed pro) print the front panel in ABS but it failed. They told me it was warping too much.

So I now have my own printer and I'm planning to print in 2 parts in PLA. Then use epoxy to smooth the surface. Finishing with paint.

It's a lot of work and will never look like the original. If not for yourself, you should just sell it as is.

Almost forgot, test the encoders. I had to change most of them on my unit. Got the digikey replacement part # somewhere if you want. Also the LCD backlight can be converted to LED easily.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Straw Poll time.

Ferrules or Bare wire into screw terminals in a mix of Low Voltage DC and Mains AC? I have never used the Round ones in the past or really seen a need for them 

Some non E types like them but I take that with a grain of salt as to good or bad. The relevent discussion is aimed at those same types of users with limited skills.

For stranded wire into any type of terminal which does not explicitely state otherwise, use ferrules.
(there are some types of modern tool-free terminals, where they are actually detrimental. The ferrule will not set properly and can be pulled out rather easy. Mainly those with a blade-like contact piece.)
For solid wire, no ferrules.
For mil/aero and high reliability wiring, NO ferrules but pin cable lugs.

[Specmaster]

Straw Poll time.

Ferrules or Bare wire into screw terminals in a mix of Low Voltage DC and Mains AC? I have never used the Round ones in the past or really seen a need for them 

Some non E types like them but I take that with a grain of salt as to good or bad. The relevent discussion is aimed at those same types of users with limited skills.

For stranded wire into any type of terminal which does not explicitely state otherwise, use ferrules.
(there are some types of modern tool-free terminals, where they are actually detrimental. The ferrule will not set properly and can be pulled out rather easy. Mainly those with a blade-like contact piece.)
For solid wire, no ferrules.
For mil/aero and high reliability wiring, NO ferrules but pin cable lugs.

Plus one for this option

[mnementh]

Straw Poll time.

Ferrules or Bare wire into screw terminals in a mix of Low Voltage DC and Mains AC? I have never used the Round ones in the past or really seen a need for them 

With stranded wire, I'm definitely for ferrules. They greatly reduce the risk of stray wire strands wreaking havoc. I usually end up using them as soon as I've got a screw terminal and a finely stranded wire; say more than 7 strands for 1.5mm² (AWG14ish). A recent example is a connection box where a rubber cable to a circulation pump is connected. Its conductors meet the fixed wire under common screw terminals, and since mixing stranded rubber cable and one conductor PVC cable under one screw is a bad idea it is a natural case for ferrules.

+1 for ferrules using on stranded wire. As a tool, I'm using this one from Knipex: 97 53 14 - it goes from 0.08 to 10mm² (AWG 28 to 7)   

And this is for our beloved dwagon     

    

Yeah, those are the crimpers & crimps I was talking about; pretty expensive ecology unless you're billing them directly to a client. For a while I was doing some heavy DC work; used a similarly-designed hydraulic crimper with a 2" throat for battery stack terminals on 00 to 0000 copper cables.

Now everybody seems to want the horrible ones with a plastic cup molded in the end. Those I wouldn't be surprised if they are in fact plated steel. 

mnem
There's more than one way home.

[mnementh]

Thanks for the Feedback Ferals 

Strand retention and avoiding the stray issue is a good one and for newbs to avoid the issue as you can check out of the terminal with a better view. I was taught without them and haven't seen the 'need'.

Same here, hence my dissertation of dissent. That said... if the popularity of the things is a result of "the ongoing evolution of standards", then you may at some point face liability issues if you DON'T use them. 

   Those radial compression crimpers and the annealed copper crimps BU508A has there are probably the ONLY kind I'd consider to be as trustworthy as a properly stripped bare wire, and then ONLY if installed using that tool by someone qualified to use it, as choosing the wrong ferrule is a great way to get a sub-standard termination.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

   Million dollar question (well, maybe a bit less...) is whether I should use this as an excuse to get a 3D printer and print a new front bezel. Would like your take on this. Would a decent 3D printed cover seduce you to pay another, say, 100€? Or would it pull you over the line on this if you would have otherwise left it alone?

Anyone with an opinion?

I'd offer bean (or someone like him) 75€ to make you something actually nice out of hardwood that incorporates the intact knob subpanel. 

Then when he counters with an offer of 100€, reluctantly pay it because I know it's still worth it in the long run.

Seriously... I saw the work Mechatrommer did on his. If I still had access to my old metal shop, I'd literally still rather weld & mill it out of aluminum flat stock by hand than what he did.

mnem
"There's enough misery to go around without grabbing for more." ~me

[beanflying]

   Million dollar question (well, maybe a bit less...) is whether I should use this as an excuse to get a 3D printer and print a new front bezel. Would like your take on this. Would a decent 3D printed cover seduce you to pay another, say, 100€? Or would it pull you over the line on this if you would have otherwise left it alone?

Anyone with an opinion?

I'd offer bean (or someone like him) 75€ to make you something actually nice out of hardwood that incorporates the intact knob subpanel. 

Then when he counters with an offer of 100€, reluctantly pay it because I know it's still worth it in the long run.

Seriously... I saw the work Mechatrommer did on his. If I still had access to my old metal shop, I'd literally still rather weld & mill it out of aluminum flat stock by hand than what he did.

mnem
"There's enough misery to go around without grabbing for more." ~me

I remember looking at the original replacement for 3D printing and thinking  for the effort for a personal project.

Commercially it is a loser due to the time involved and what it will do to the sell price. If they were sold as is with Mechatrommers blessing (I think he may have pulled the design from thingaverse?) as is but here is a solution to the problem then it might help sell it for a few $ more.