Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Just got a message to say that my long awaited Xtal tester is out for delivery today by my local post office so my clever move to purchase via the UK warehouse for speed turned out to be a classic case of the tortoise and hare  and saw me coming home in last place  . Photos of of the final build once done will be forth coming.

[AVGresponding]

The panel settings are for a 1 V rms sine wave @ 1 kHz.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but that top trace ain't no sine wave is it? 

The square wave is supposed to be 1 V p-p same frequency, it's OK for the time being ...

Time to open her up boys! 

(Attachment Link)

It's a special 3 component wave, triangle on the leading edge, square on the peaks, and sine on the trailing edge...   

Its 4503 update time again, the MAX134 arrived today, a day after the maximum expected delivery date, not to bad I guess. Anyway, after the last update when I said that it had been on a soak test, well after I posted that, it started to give me all kinds of readings and became impossible recalibate even on the DCV ranges, so I kind of figured that maybe the MAX134 had finally expired and waited for the new one to arrive. Tonight I fitted it and the meter is just as it was before I fitted the new one, so Its not the IC at all, so its back into the rabbit hole I must fall again. The readings are negatives this time and when calibrating, you input a high value as near to the scale fsd as possible, alter the negative sign to a positive and then tell it what the value is, remove the voltage and short the input leads and enter all zeros, and changing the negative sign over and enter that value and is supposed to display DONE and then GOOD, instead it displays BAD 

Anyone experienced anything like this before at all I wonder, nothing looking like a bad solder joint is visible, no resistors or anything looking distressed 

I would check Vref pin to make sure it's not wrong (assume it's 2.5V). Then use a 3478A or something in 3V range very high impedance mode to measure differential voltage across the inputs of the MAX134 while the actual input terminals of the 4503 are shorted and make sure that is zero. That will isolate either the ADC support or the input circuitry. Then divide and conquer!

It's a head-scratcher, the chances of the new IC having the exact same fault as the old one are so low as to be not worth considering, so it does seem like it can be eliminated.

I guess I better keep the casing screws loose on mine for when Specmaster needs known good readings to compare...   

[Specmaster]

Its 4503 update time again, the MAX134 arrived today, a day after the maximum expected delivery date, not to bad I guess. Anyway, after the last update when I said that it had been on a soak test, well after I posted that, it started to give me all kinds of readings and became impossible recalibate even on the DCV ranges, so I kind of figured that maybe the MAX134 had finally expired and waited for the new one to arrive. Tonight I fitted it and the meter is just as it was before I fitted the new one, so Its not the IC at all, so its back into the rabbit hole I must fall again. The readings are negatives this time and when calibrating, you input a high value as near to the scale fsd as possible, alter the negative sign to a positive and then tell it what the value is, remove the voltage and short the input leads and enter all zeros, and changing the negative sign over and enter that value and is supposed to display DONE and then GOOD, instead it displays BAD 

Anyone experienced anything like this before at all I wonder, nothing looking like a bad solder joint is visible, no resistors or anything looking distressed 

I would check Vref pin to make sure it's not wrong (assume it's 2.5V). Then use a 3478A or something in 3V range very high impedance mode to measure differential voltage across the inputs of the MAX134 while the actual input terminals of the 4503 are shorted and make sure that is zero. That will isolate either the ADC support or the input circuitry. Then divide and conquer!

It's a head-scratcher, the chances of the new IC having the exact same fault as the old one are so low as to be not worth considering, so it does seem like it can be eliminated.

I guess I better keep the casing screws loose on mine for when Specmaster needs known good readings to compare...   

Totally agree, but we already checked the Vref together if IIRC, and they were the same, however I will revisit it in the very near future, in the meantime, I have a box fan that is requiring some urgent attention and the incoming Crystal tester to assemble and test / photograph for the group. Thank you for keeping screws out so we check the odd value here and there 

[tggzzz]

The panel settings are for a 1 V rms sine wave @ 1 kHz.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but that top trace ain't no sine wave is it? 

The square wave is supposed to be 1 V p-p same frequency, it's OK for the time being ...

Time to open her up boys! 

Diagnosis would be aided by seeing a picture at 10* and 0.1* the frequency, and 1/10th the amplitude.

The clipping might be PSU related.

The transitions are certainly strange, almost like a time-reversed exponential. I'd have a look at capacitors in the signal chain.

[xrunner]

Diagnosis would be aided by seeing a picture at 10* and 0.1* the frequency, and 1/10th the amplitude.

The clipping might be PSU related.

The transitions are certainly strange, almost like a time-reversed exponential. I'd have a look at capacitors in the signal chain.

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes checking the PSU is on the table. Here's some more until I can get into it more later.

A quick look tells many things -

The original radial caps replaced with axial.
Soldering iron melted incoming AC wiring insulation.
PCB traces damaged.
Potentiometer on the end of the sine wave amplitude control might be a replacement mounted badly.
Capacitor across the meter terminals growing green corrosion, beautiful example of that!

The pot doesn't look like the one in the assembly manual. It's in bad shape because the alignment "key" isn't going into the hole made for it but is prying the whole case up on one side and causing a mis-alignment of the mechanism inside. I'll have to fix that because it's just going to fall apart.

I'll go for finding the root cause of the sine wave distortion, then we'll see about getting the rest of the issues cleaned up.

... and the case and knobs. The knobs need to take a nice warm bath in my ultrasonic cleaner. 

[med6753]

The Gorillas certainly had fun with that Heath. 

[Zucca]

For the German TEA hunters:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/werkstattaufloesung/1399173457-84-4550

[Specmaster]

That must surely be a SK sale?

[med6753]

Under the category of "you can't make this stuff up" and I wouldn't have believed it but I heard it with my own ears....

A guy calls 911 to complain that he paid a women for a "sexual transaction" but she's refusing to give up the goods.

911 dutifully dispatches it as such. I hear the responding police agency say "Wonderful" with a snicker in his voice.

Police show up. Now both parties are denying any transaction took place. Well.....D'OH. 

Case closed.   

[bd139]

The Gorillas certainly had fun with that Heath. 

This is why I can't bring myself to buy any Heathkit stuff any more. Just hurts every time something turns up. I occasionally look out for the "heath constructed" items as they tend to be less shit though 

GTX 1660 in. Works nicely. 3dmark time spy actually works now and Metro Exodus doesn't have a fit . Also no fans until you need 'em. Case is 100% silent



Theme inside my PC is "black" if anyone hadn't noticed.

Good investment so far 

[med6753]

The Gorillas certainly had fun with that Heath. 

This is why I can't bring myself to buy any Heathkit stuff any more. Just hurts every time something turns up. I occasionally look out for the "heath constructed" items as they tend to be less shit though 

Of all the Heath's I have restored so far none was an outright abortion but that OL-1 Scope was a little dodgy.

My biggest problem is finding Tek's with "Gorillas in the Mist" 

[bd139]

Yeah that was a nasty that one. I think the worst one I did was the V7 which you now own the only working chunk of 

[McBryce]

For the German TEA hunters:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/werkstattaufloesung/1399173457-84-4550

Hmmm, only 200Km away and for a mere €2200 plus the price of a rental van and a divorce, extremely tempting.

McBryce.

[Ice-Tea]

For the German TEA hunters:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/werkstattaufloesung/1399173457-84-4550

Hmmm, only 200Km away and for a mere €2200 plus the price of a rental van and a divorce, extremely tempting.

McBryce.

Hmm.. wish there were better picktures of his "main gear".

[Specmaster]

@bd139, that sure looks nice, classy and understated. Do a FPS check on GTA V and see what you get now, I set mine back a couple of notches on the pixel settings and took of all the shadows etc highlights etc and still only got 60 - 61 FPS so I'm guessing that the biggest bottleneck I have in the graphics dept might the 2 GB DDR5 Graphics ram. I have 32 GB of system ram.

Control is shit with keyboard and mouse however, need to get a proper game controller to get the most pleasure from playing that kind of game.

I'll be assembling the Xtal tester later, looking forward to that, another kit to build 

On the negative side, I heard last night that my Aunt passed away Monday morning at her nursing home in Eastbourne, aged 103 of natural causes. Looking like I may be the only person at her funeral whenever that is going to be granted, apart from one or two staff members from her home. She does have a Sister, 96 in a home Isle of White and 2 Nieces, neither of whom had ever met her so won't be attending. Not much off a sent off for her I'm afraid.

[Kosmic]

After 2 months i'm still waiting for my USB connectors. Look like I will have to change my plan for my Jim Williams pulse generator.

Ha got my connectors in the mail today. Took 103 days to get here from China. Used to take 30 days at most.

[mnementh]

The Gorillas certainly had fun with that Heath. 

mnem

[mnementh]

@bd139, that sure looks nice, classy and understated. Do a FPS check on GTA V and see what you get now, I set mine back a couple of notches on the pixel settings and took of all the shadows etc highlights etc and still only got 60 - 61 FPS so I'm guessing that the biggest bottleneck I have in the graphics dept might the 2 GB DDR5 Graphics ram. I have 32 GB of system ram.

Control is shit with keyboard and mouse however, need to get a proper game controller to get the most pleasure from playing that kind of game.

I'll be assembling the Xtal tester later, looking forward to that, another kit to build 

On the negative side, I heard last night that my Aunt passed away Monday morning at her nursing home in Eastbourne, aged 103 of natural causes. Looking like I may be the only person at her funeral whenever that is going to be granted, apart from one or two staff members from her home. She does have a Sister, 96 in a home Isle of White and 2 Nieces, neither of whom had ever met her so won't be attending. Not much off a sent off for her I'm afraid.

Condolences, brother.    Good on you for doing the family thing.

My favorite controller for PC is still the XBox 360 wireless; I've tried the XBox One on BT and it's laggy on the PC. Get a genuine MS XBOX360 Wireless adapter and Win10 STILL recognizes/installs it automagically; all the cheap Chinese clone ones have to do the whole unsigned drivers workaround BS that just makes your balls ache.

After that, any XBOX360 wireless controller you can lay your hands on will love you long time.  I prefer the feel of the 2nd gen controllers best (when they first released the black wireless controllers) but the 3rd gen are also pretty good. You can still find both as NOS on fleaBay and Amazon; any gen of black controller will feel tighter than the original white ones.

mnem
*currently fending off the underpants gnomes*

[bd139]

@bd139, that sure looks nice, classy and understated. Do a FPS check on GTA V and see what you get now, I set mine back a couple of notches on the pixel settings and took of all the shadows etc highlights etc and still only got 60 - 61 FPS so I'm guessing that the biggest bottleneck I have in the graphics dept might the 2 GB DDR5 Graphics ram. I have 32 GB of system ram.

I use G-sync/Freesync so I'm not interested in raw frame rate really. Monitor can only kick out 60 fps max. GTA with all settings maxed out hits 60fps with no drop out vs 28-32 before on lower settings. Same with Metro Exodus on Very High - just eats it  . GPU RAM was a big issue before for me. You could see it badly with Metro on the RX550 I had. Also Fusion 360 is a lot smoother than before. Very happy.

Next the CPU. Ryzen 7 3700X has a lot more wumph for a lot less power (65W TDP) so one will chucked in it when the next Zen3 CPUs come out and the price bombs on the old ones 

On the negative side, I heard last night that my Aunt passed away Monday morning at her nursing home in Eastbourne, aged 103 of natural causes. Looking like I may be the only person at her funeral whenever that is going to be granted, apart from one or two staff members from her home. She does have a Sister, 96 in a home Isle of White and 2 Nieces, neither of whom had ever met her so won't be attending. Not much off a sent off for her I'm afraid.

Sorry to hear about that. 103 is an amazing life though. I'd be happy to get within 20 years of that

[Cubdriver]

A quick look tells many things -

The original radial caps replaced with axial.
Soldering iron melted incoming AC wiring insulation.
PCB traces damaged.
Potentiometer on the end of the sine wave amplitude control might be a replacement mounted badly.
Capacitor across the meter terminals growing green corrosion, beautiful example of that!

The pot doesn't look like the one in the assembly manual. It's in bad shape because the alignment "key" isn't going into the hole made for it but is prying the whole case up on one side and causing a mis-alignment of the mechanism inside. I'll have to fix that because it's just going to fall apart.

I'll go for finding the root cause of the sine wave distortion, then we'll see about getting the rest of the issues cleaned up.

... and the case and knobs. The knobs need to take a nice warm bath in my ultrasonic cleaner. 

That poor generator!     And that's weird, usually you see axial packages being replaced by radials, not the other way 'round.  The cap across the meter looks especially nasty - interesting shades of green, but they have no place on component leads - that must have been venting some nastiness.  Blechh!

Good luck with your resurrection.

-Pat

[Cubdriver]

On the negative side, I heard last night that my Aunt passed away Monday morning at her nursing home in Eastbourne, aged 103 of natural causes. Looking like I may be the only person at her funeral whenever that is going to be granted, apart from one or two staff members from her home. She does have a Sister, 96 in a home Isle of White and 2 Nieces, neither of whom had ever met her so won't be attending. Not much off a sent off for her I'm afraid.

Wow, Spec - 103?!?  She saw a lot, and I bet she had some stories!!  My deepest condolences on her loss, and having broken the century mark she deserves a better send off than she can get in these crazy times.

-Pat

[med6753]

The Gorillas certainly had fun with that Heath. 

mnem

I have posted that commercial before. Go back a few years. But it's always a good reminder. 

P.S. that's a chimp, not a gorilla but who cares. 

[med6753]

Yeah that was a nasty that one. I think the worst one I did was the V7 which you now own the only working chunk of 

Yea, and the English meter and the Yankee electrics are getting along just fine. I see no sign of any issues or pending divorce. 

[bd139]

Don't leave any tea near it and it'll be fine

[BU508A]

@bd139, that sure looks nice, classy and understated. Do a FPS check on GTA V and see what you get now, I set mine back a couple of notches on the pixel settings and took of all the shadows etc highlights etc and still only got 60 - 61 FPS so I'm guessing that the biggest bottleneck I have in the graphics dept might the 2 GB DDR5 Graphics ram. I have 32 GB of system ram.

Control is shit with keyboard and mouse however, need to get a proper game controller to get the most pleasure from playing that kind of game.

I'll be assembling the Xtal tester later, looking forward to that, another kit to build 

On the negative side, I heard last night that my Aunt passed away Monday morning at her nursing home in Eastbourne, aged 103 of natural causes. Looking like I may be the only person at her funeral whenever that is going to be granted, apart from one or two staff members from her home. She does have a Sister, 96 in a home Isle of White and 2 Nieces, neither of whom had ever met her so won't be attending. Not much off a sent off for her I'm afraid.

Condelences from my side. Keep the good memories.