Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[nfmax]

You probably can't see it because I didn't make that point.

Why are people so determined today to put words into my mouth that I didn't say? 

Because there's no need to put words into your mouth that you did say? 

[mnementh]

Congratulations on your avoidance  I'm bored. Looking at Ducky keyboards now 

I like the looks of their Mecha Mini. If they made that in a full-size KB for about $125 I might be interested.

I've gotten a little spoiled by my cheap-ass metal-frame gaming KB; I'm never going back to plastic. If they can bring that weight & feel in a cheap RGB gaming keyboard for $27, there's no excuse to settle for plastic from anyone else. It's such a little thing to make happen; but having enough weight that the damned thing stays where you put it is fucking important.

I realize it's just a bit of powder-coated stamped steel; but who the duck cares? It makes SO much difference; metal frame should be a minimum requirement for any supposedly "decent" keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C9D23970-BAEE-41FD-9E1B-F6B3A3B895ED

mnem

[Wolfgang]

Congratulations on your avoidance  I'm bored. Looking at Ducky keyboards now 

I like the looks of their Mecha Mini. If they made that in a full-size KB for about $125 I might be interested. I've gotten a little spoiled by my cheap-ass metal-frame gaming KB; I'm never going back to plastic. If they can bring that weight & feel in a cheap RGB gaming keyboard for $27, there's no excuse to settle for plastic from anyone else.

I realize it's just a bit of powder-coated stamped steel; but who the duck cares? It makes SO much difference; metal frame should be a minimum requirement for any supposedly "decent" keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C9D23970-BAEE-41FD-9E1B-F6B3A3B895ED

mnem

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

[Cerebus]

You probably can't see it because I didn't make that point.

Why are people so determined today to put words into my mouth that I didn't say? 

Because there's no need to put words into your mouth that you did say? 

Oh yeah? Where's the quote then?

[bd139]

Congratulations on your avoidance  I'm bored. Looking at Ducky keyboards now 

I like the looks of their Mecha Mini. If they made that in a full-size KB for about $125 I might be interested.

I've gotten a little spoiled by my cheap-ass metal-frame gaming KB; I'm never going back to plastic. If they can bring that weight & feel in a cheap RGB gaming keyboard for $27, there's no excuse to settle for plastic from anyone else. It's such a little thing to make happen; but having enough weight that the damned thing stays where you put it is fucking important.

I realize it's just a bit of powder-coated stamped steel; but who the duck cares? It makes SO much difference; metal frame should be a minimum requirement for any supposedly "decent" keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C9D23970-BAEE-41FD-9E1B-F6B3A3B895ED

mnem

It's a full size jobby I'm looking at. The One2 skyline. ISO layout. Cherry MX reds. No crazy LED wank. And keycaps that don't bloody fall off every two minutes like my Corsair one. And yes it has a chunk of metal in in it. And it has macro capability



https://www.mechkeyboards.eu/ducky-channel-one2-skyline-dkon1808-rukpdzhbs-1077-p.asp

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

Yeah those were nice for sure. I had one for about 3 years. They are also extremely loud and you will end up living with angry Klingons if you use them 

[mnementh]

Yeah, but metal FRAME is what makes the difference; that's what ties the weight to rigidity. Just a bit of metal in a plastic shell does NOT yield the same results. I looked at that one on their website; 1kHz polling set aside, it's just too fucking much money for a plastic fantastic. At that price it should be aluminum frame, and us cheap-asses should be allowed to trade down to steel to save money.

...I realize it's just a bit of powder-coated stamped steel; but who the duck cares? It makes SO much difference; metal frame should be a minimum requirement for any supposedly "decent" keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C9D23970-BAEE-41FD-9E1B-F6B3A3B895ED

mnem

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies. Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage. You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

Yeah... I had one of those I kept alive for decades by dismantling, cleaning, painting and replacing the cable over & over.  The new generations of mechanical gaming/codemonkey keyboards are honestly better tho; new tech is finally trickling down to that most essential part of the UI. 

It's a whole new world in just the last 5 years or so; better ergonomics just from slightly moving the keys results in much less fatigue, yet you can still get the same feel due to the same Cherry reed switches as those old IBM-Lexmark keyboards. The electronics isn't just fancy RGB bling lighting like my cheapo Redragon K506 (Thank Ifni you can make it all single-color; that unicorn-blarff is eye-searing ) they're making ones now with active keycaps that change symbols with context and macro level as well as EM coils for electronically adjusted resistance & feedback. 

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

There was a time when I would have agreed 100% with you. I had the original (102 key?) IBM Clunk-a-Matic with a DIN connector on, that stayed with me, complete with many adapters to fit the keyboard port du jour, from the 80s until the mid 2000s. Then Apple brought out their one piece aluminium keyboards (the originals, not the current abortions with the 'butterfly' mechanism). When I first encountered them I was not a fan, but after a day or two of getting used to them going back to the old IBM just felt wrong. Just as positive as the old IBM, just as much fingertip feedback, but with a fraction of the noise, shorter key travel and no brute force required to push the keys home.

[AVGresponding]

Thanks for checking those voltages for me and I agree with you, they are close enough. It looks as if the MAX134 is the guilty part after all. Soon find out now hopefully, it wont take long for the new one to arrive.

I've got my eye on some more matching gear to hopefully join it 

I've discovered that the 8840A is not the best meter to go poking about inside it checking voltages as the input impedance is so high that if the measure the higher voltage first (in this case, 1.22V), it struggles to read the lower voltage afterwards and takes a long time for the voltage to decay, whereas the Brymen works perfectly 

You're welcome.

Yeah, you kind of have to get in the habit of shorting the leads between measurements with the 8840   

Maybe I should have powered up the 7075 for some more unnecessary decimal places... 


Got 4 items I'm gonna get overbid on, almost certainly   

A parts only 7150, which is already at £21 + £11,
That Thandar baby scope is at £31 +£9 and will probably take off in the dying seconds, wouldn't surprise me if it went over £100
 
Those Premas are already at £53 + £11,
And a Heathkit cap tester with 3 bidders now and 4 days to go... no chance...   


I'm happy with my fairly basic Logitech wireless kb/mouse set. If I ever need it to weigh more, I'll just glue some lead to the bottom of it!   

[Mr. Scram]

There was a time when I would have agreed 100% with you. I had the original (102 key?) IBM Clunk-a-Matic with a DIN connector on, that stayed with me, complete with many adapters to fit the keyboard port du jour, from the 80s until the mid 2000s. Then Apple brought out their one piece aluminium keyboards (the originals, not the current abortions with the 'butterfly' mechanism). When I first encountered them I was not a fan, but after a day or two of getting used to them going back to the old IBM just felt wrong. Just as positive as the old IBM, just as much fingertip feedback, but with a fraction of the noise, shorter key travel and no brute force required to push the keys home.

That's a position bound to get a rise out of both IBM and Apple keyboard fans. 

[bd139]

Yeah, but metal FRAME is what makes the difference; that's what ties the weight to rigidity. Just a bit of metal in a plastic shell does NOT yield the same results.

Yes and no. The rigidity is as much the shape of the material as the material itself.

Anyway I ordered it. Let's see when it turns up 

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

There was a time when I would have agreed 100% with you. I had the original (102 key?) IBM Clunk-a-Matic with a DIN connector on, that stayed with me, complete with many adapters to fit the keyboard port du jour, from the 80s until the mid 2000s. Then Apple brought out their one piece aluminium keyboards (the originals, not the current abortions with the 'butterfly' mechanism). When I first encountered them I was not a fan, but after a day or two of getting used to them going back to the old IBM just felt wrong. Just as positive as the old IBM, just as much fingertip feedback, but with a fraction of the noise, shorter key travel and no brute force required to push the keys home.

Yeah those weren't terrible. I did find that the macbook variety somewhat "fall-to-bitsy" but I fuck up every keyboard I go near.

[tggzzz]

It's a full size jobby I'm looking at. The One2 skyline. ISO layout. Cherry MX reds. No crazy LED wank. And keycaps that don't bloody fall off every two minutes like my Corsair one. And yes it has a chunk of metal in in it. And it has macro capability



https://www.mechkeyboards.eu/ducky-channel-one2-skyline-dkon1808-rukpdzhbs-1077-p.asp

Very timely; yesterday I started looking for a keyboard to replace my HP c3753a (legend obliterated, a few caps loose), PS2 only.

What made you select the MX red rather than black/brown/blue/green/clear? Can you compare the red with something I might know?

Looking at https://lifehacker.com/how-to-choose-the-best-mechanical-keyboard-and-why-you-511140347 leads me to believe the c3753a might be a blue.

Normally I'd want to go out and play with a keyboard before buying it, but that's a tad difficult for the foreseeable future.

[capt bullshot]

I still have and I'm still using this one (and a few similar ones):




I guess this particular one is from the beginning of the 1990's

[drussell]

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

There was a time when I would have agreed 100% with you. I had the original (102 key?) IBM Clunk-a-Matic with a DIN connector on, that stayed with me, complete with many adapters to fit the keyboard port du jour, from the 80s until the mid 2000s.

The original PC and PC/XT 83-key keyboard was known as the model F.  The 10 function keys were along the left side in two rows.  The PC/AT version of the model F changed to having 84 keys (added SysRq in the upper right) and added the three LED status indicators. 

The later "enhanced" keyboards are the 101/102-key versions with function keys across the top and the dedicated arrow keys, insert/delete/home/end and page up/down, etc.  The IBM versions of these are known as the model M.  Many of them are nice and "clicky" like the original Fs, although there are many, many variants produced over the years, some better than others.

[BU508A]

Congratulations on your avoidance  I'm bored. Looking at Ducky keyboards now 

I like the looks of their Mecha Mini. If they made that in a full-size KB for about $125 I might be interested. I've gotten a little spoiled by my cheap-ass metal-frame gaming KB; I'm never going back to plastic. If they can bring that weight & feel in a cheap RGB gaming keyboard for $27, there's no excuse to settle for plastic from anyone else.

I realize it's just a bit of powder-coated stamped steel; but who the duck cares? It makes SO much difference; metal frame should be a minimum requirement for any supposedly "decent" keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C9D23970-BAEE-41FD-9E1B-F6B3A3B895ED

mnem

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

Another very good keyboards are the ones from WEY TEC.
Actually, there is one in the bay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/382976717220



I have one of those, including the unit for easy switching between different sources.
Very handy for repairing / updating PCs.

[BU508A]

Why are people so determined today to put words into my mouth that I didn't say? 

Because people are bored these days so they're going to stir a bit in the pot, I think. 

[bd139]

It's a full size jobby I'm looking at. The One2 skyline. ISO layout. Cherry MX reds. No crazy LED wank. And keycaps that don't bloody fall off every two minutes like my Corsair one. And yes it has a chunk of metal in in it. And it has macro capability



https://www.mechkeyboards.eu/ducky-channel-one2-skyline-dkon1808-rukpdzhbs-1077-p.asp

Very timely; yesterday I started looking for a keyboard to replace my HP c3753a (legend obliterated, a few caps loose), PS2 only.

What made you select the MX red rather than black/brown/blue/green/clear? Can you compare the red with something I might know?

Looking at https://lifehacker.com/how-to-choose-the-best-mechanical-keyboard-and-why-you-511140347 leads me to believe the c3753a might be a blue.

Normally I'd want to go out and play with a keyboard before buying it, but that's a tad difficult for the foreseeable future.

MX red because it's the quietest of the cherry switches and I already have a keyboard with them and am rather used to it. They don't have much tactile feedback and no audio feedback as such and are quite light keys for MX series but they are incredibly reliable, no bounce and you can type fairly quickly. I can average about 85wpm with no mistakes for ~4 minutes on the MX red board at the moment, which is usually the point at which the keycaps fall off the Corsair 

Current keyboard is one of these:



This suffers from the keys being too raised from the keybed so occasionally when you move your hands around you knock the keycaps off. Also the keycaps fall off every two minutes, particularly the Delete key. Also I keep subconsciously starting to type on the numeric pad which doesn't exist 

The MX red is close to the old Wyse and Sun keyboards.

As for playing with them:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GZHU1EG/

[Cubdriver]

Congratulations on your avoidance  I'm bored. Looking at Ducky keyboards now 

I like the looks of their Mecha Mini. If they made that in a full-size KB for about $125 I might be interested. I've gotten a little spoiled by my cheap-ass metal-frame gaming KB; I'm never going back to plastic. If they can bring that weight & feel in a cheap RGB gaming keyboard for $27, there's no excuse to settle for plastic from anyone else.

I realize it's just a bit of powder-coated stamped steel; but who the duck cares? It makes SO much difference; metal frame should be a minimum requirement for any supposedly "decent" keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C9D23970-BAEE-41FD-9E1B-F6B3A3B895ED

mnem

The best keyboard, IMHO, is still the vintage IBM thing from the 90ies.
Its heavy as hell, its loud, but you can physically kill a Klingon with it and it will show no damage.
You can still *buy* this new for ca. 500€ !!!

The IBM Model M buckling spring keyboard.  My all time favorite.  I have a couple of them and need to find an adapter to let them work on USB connections. I'm currently using a Cherry MX 3000 that's the closest thing I've found thus far for key feel, but it's still just not as good.  (And, unlike the Fluke 27/FM and IBM Model M, would NOT work very well as a blunt force weapon.)

-Pat

[Cerebus]

The later "enhanced" keyboards are the 101/102-key versions with function keys across the top and the dedicated arrow keys, insert/delete/home/end and page up/down, etc.  The IBM versions of these are known as the model M.  Many of them are nice and "clicky" like the original Fs, although there are many, many variants produced over the years, some better than others.

The one I clutched to my bosom (and would have killed anybody who tried to nick it) was the enhanced keyboard that was distributed with the early PS/2 machines. (Remember Microchannel cards anyone?) I had an original XT keyboard that was my mainstay before I got the 101/102 key one - I think I still have the XT keyboard in a corner somewhere. The actual XT that it belonged to got upgraded beyond recognition and was finally discarded sometime in the 90s.

[mnementh]

Yeah, but metal FRAME is what makes the difference; that's what ties the weight to rigidity. Just a bit of metal in a plastic shell does NOT yield the same results.

Yes and no. The rigidity is as much the shape of the material as the material itself.

Anyway I ordered it. Let's see when it turns up 

I looked at that one on their website; 1kHz polling set aside, it's to me it feels like just too fucking much money for a plastic fantastic. At that price it should be aluminum frame, and us cheap-asses should be allowed to trade down to steel to save money.

Agreed, to a point on the shape being part of the strength; a flat sheet of steel is just going to flop around too. But as you can see with my cheapie, it doesn't take much in the way of forming to make a DRASTIC difference in the feel; steel is cheap even in the 1.5mm thickness my KB is punched out of, and the side effect of that is that the weight is distributed so it has a very solid "feel". 

Keys... you'll probably consider them to be "Ehhh..." at best; they're double-molded so light transmissiveness is pretty fair (I really wish it were individual LEDs, but whaddayawant for $27), in a unitized self-lubricating plastic frame with individual silicone keycups on a allegedly waterproof membrane matrix. Feel is pretty much the same as the old Dell "quiet" keyboards (the half-decent ones before they totally cheaped out) circa 2000-2005. Moderately heavy, ~3.5mm travel, definite detent at about 1mm, feel is a little muddy when it bottoms out. I've had mine a couple year now, and while some of the caps are worn a bit shiny, the action on every key is still smooth and no discernible degradation. Given the price, it's an amazing amount of quality, IMHO.

The IBM/Lexmark keyboard modules of ages past were unitized 0.8mm steel frame designed so they were self-supporting, not requiring any support from the shell they just "rested" in. You could literally take the keyboard out of the shell and still use it; I did so for a while just by adding rubber feet on one. Even tho it wasn't strictly necessary, the shell was glas-reinforced resin to give it a "cast-aluminum" feel. You just aren't going to get that kind of over-engineering from today's manufacturers.

Yes, I know your use case is different... you make a living with your KB, I just annoy people on the other side of a computer screen as a hobby.   Obviously, I'm going to be just fine with my "Meh... Black & Decker" quality KB for the price, while you'll be more willing to spend the bux on the "Milwaukee" or better grade tools of your trade.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

(SNIP)...The MX red is close to the old Wyse and Sun keyboards. As for playing with them: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GZHU1EG/

More keys to diddle, only 11 quiddle: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cikuso-Acrylic-Keyboard-Plastic-Switches-black-transparent/dp/B07QGPWVWP

mnem
 

[Mr. Scram]

I've wanted one of those testers for a while, but I'm unsure any come with original switches.

[GreyWoolfe]

The Ironbound,

So called because of the railroad tracks that surround the district.  Also known as the neck because it sits on a bend in the Passaic River.  An awesome group of business owners.  Very family oriented, proud of what they built up and didn't tolerate riff raff trying to move into their neighborhoods.  They were all small stores so only ordered small orders once every month or two.  Always treated me well when dealing with them.  The Iberia restaurant was an awesome restaurant back then, I hope is is still as good.  The rest of Newark was truly the armpit of NJ, however.

[mnementh]

I've wanted one of those testers for a while, but I'm unsure any come with original switches.

I know there's a whole underground gaming cult thing about whose clone Cherry switches are closest to the real thing; supposedly, a number of the Taiwanese makers are indistinguishable in feel for each of the popular colors.

@bd - have you got the one you linked to; have you tried it to have a firsthand opinion...? Given the price, I don't know that either of these are likely populated with the real thing.

[EDIT] No, wait...upon reviewing the listing, it appears the AKWOX  () model bd linked to does explicitly CLAIM to actually have Cherry switches. The one I linked to does not so promise. 

mnem
 

[BU508A]

Meanwhile in the fleabay:

Keithley 485 pico ampere meter



2 Fluke 8050A



Disclaimer: no affiliations with the seller.

[bd139]

I've wanted one of those testers for a while, but I'm unsure any come with original switches.

I know there's a whole underground gaming cult thing about whose clone Cherry switches are closest to the real thing; supposedly, a number of the Taiwanese makers are indistinguishable in feel for each of the popular colors.

@bd - have you got the one you linked to; have you tried it to have a firsthand opinion...? Given the price, I don't know that either of these are likely populated with the real thing.

mnem
 

I haven’t got the one I linked to. I borrowed one from someone for a couple of days. Looked exactly the same and the key switches matched my expectation. Price is about right for the switch count TBH.